It's Official: Wizards, Mavericks agree to deal
by Jake Whitacre on Feb 13, 2010 7:19 PM EST
in Trades
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Print[Editor's Note: Here is the link to tonight's open thread. -Jake]
UPDATE #3: Here is the official press release from the Wizards regarding the trade. Thanks to disgrunted for the tip.
UPDATE #2: Here's another quote from Ernie Grunfeld on the trade, via CSN Washington:
"Our four new players bring versatility and the experience of playing in a winning situation," said Grunfeld. "Josh and Quinton can each play both the shooting guard and small forward positions while providing athleticism and outside shooting. Drew can play both the power forward and center positions and he and James give us an inside presence that combines skill and toughness."
UPDATE: Lee tweets "Ernie Grunfeld on why he traded Caron, Brendan & DeShawn to DAL: "We needed some freshness on the team.""
According to Michael Lee, the deal that has been proposed and bantered around the past few days has been agreed upon. Here's who is going where:
Washington receives
Josh Howard
Drew Gooden
Quinton Ross
James Singleton
Dallas receives
Caron Butler
Brendan Haywood
DeShawn Stevenson
Clearly, we're looking at a cost-cutting move here. The only Maverick coming to Washington whose contract extends beyond this year is Quinton Ross, who has a player option for $1.1 million next season.
We don't know what other deals were on the table, but what's clear is this: The Wizards are officially in rebuilding mode. All rebuilding effort comes with an uncertain completion date, but at least we can say the process has begun, which means the end is much closer today than we have been for a long time.
We'll have more on this trade and any other moves that happen in the coming days, in the meantime, here is your place to discuss your thoughts on the deal and your favorite memories of the players who are headed to Dallas.
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Think I need to have a good cry-
Don’t yell at me – I’m a chick
This could sound crazy, but...
If we trade Jamison and void Gil, could this be a move to get into the summer FA sweepstakes for all the big names?
that's right..
…why would wade, bosh, and others ever consider coming this bottom-feeding sorry team?
agreed
No one is coming here…..all wizards fans better be prepared to suck for the next couple seasons now
Probably more like three or four, tops
Memphis, Sacramento, and Oklahoma City were only terrible for like two or three years. We’ll be fine if we draft somewhat competently every year and well (either as a result of position or good decision-making) once or twice. It’d be far worse for us to be mediocre like the Pacers or Bucks.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 13, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
Um
Have you seen Sacto’s record? They are only a game ahead of us.
by MR on Feb 13, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
And the Kings are rebuilding.
And delayed it for several years at that.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Don't forget Portland.
After they blew up the team it only took a couple seasons to get past the Jail-Blazers era.
Batum brings the doom.
by The Running Man on Feb 14, 2010 5:13 AM EST up reply actions
Great point.
Portland’s current team didn’t take shape until the 2006/07/08 drafts.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
they won't
thats why we should build through the draft and inexpensive, young FA’s.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
stop the lamenting
i see us winning a couple more games now, i know im gonna get hate for this, but we might actually be a lil bit better now.
glad we got rid of stevenson
I think it wad a stupid move because we could have used either of them as incentive for a team to take Jamieson off our books, which should be the real #1 priority. With that being said though I have never been a big Butler fan and think Howard’s improved defense (at a position of need) combined with opening up minutes for javale makes this a better move than many think. If… IF they already have a deal in place for Jamieson to get out of town I have little problem with it.
VOID!!!
by dt3 on Feb 13, 2010 8:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We won't be dramatically worse, at least
Howard will do better with a change of scenery and Gooden’s a decent player, especially on defense and on the boards. Stevenson’s addition by subtraction, even though he doesn’t play.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 13, 2010 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
we're 2nd worst record in the conference
how does it get dramatically worse?
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Speaking of Stevenson
I was just double-checking to see if his PER was still lowest among regular players in the league.
’Let’s see,’ I said to myself, ‘low end of PER, and let’s set the criteria at 250 minutes played or more….’ Ta-dum, whaddaya know, Quinton Ross appears on that same list of atrocious offensive players.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
The difference
is that Ross is the defensive player that Stevenson thinks he is.
Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.
Fans want draft picks
The Wizards organization just wanted to clear as much salary as possible. I know people think that the “Wizards could have gotten more,” but that’s missing the point. The Wizards got what they wanted — to get rid of as much salary as possible, and hopefully fall under the luxury tax this year.
Why would we want draft picks?
we will just trade them for cash
by 7Swords of Salat on Feb 13, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
I know this has been discussed
But aren’t the Wiz at the 15 man roster limit already?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yep
So I’m not sure how the Wizards are planning on getting around that, but this is the deal everyone seems to be reporting.
Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.
by Jake Whitacre on Feb 13, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure of Crittenton's status
Is he still on the roster, since he’s been suspended for the rest of the year…. the Wizards could release him.
The other option is that we may not have heard about a second trade… Dallas getting a Wizard’s player for a Trade Exception…
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
That would be the best option I think.
Ship Oberto out and save yourself that salary.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Crit & Gil don't count
According to Michael Lee, Crit & Gil don’t count against the roster limit.
Also, NBA wouldn’t let Wiz trade Crit since he couldn’t render services at present.
theBIGC1982
Ohhh
That would explain it.
Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.
by Jake Whitacre on Feb 13, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
Here's a tweet from Lee
http://twitter.com/MrMichaelLee/status/9073848940
Wiz get Howard, Gooden, Singleton & Ross. Was told roster not an issue since Arenas & Crittenton don’t count. Wiz would have 14 players.
Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.
by Jake Whitacre on Feb 13, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
Horrible
I can’t believe this is the best we could do for our two real value assets.
The only thing that could be worse is if we actually try to keep Howard or Gooden after this year. I think we should essentially shelve them. No point winning any games at this point.
This all sux
But I will wait to see Jamison go. The next deal is sending him to Boston, right right?
by Unselds on Feb 13, 2010 7:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Expect Howard to be out for the year soon.
by Arthur T on Feb 14, 2010 9:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
A question for everyone
A couple weeks ago, we heard that Grunfeld wanted Batum and Fernandez in return for Haywood. Did Grunfeld ever really try to get young players in these trades, and when he found that he couldn’t get good prospects in exchange, he went to Plan B, which was to cut as much salary as possible? Or was cutting salary the goal all along, and the absurd Batum and Fernandez demand just a ruse so the Wizards could claim to fans that they tried to young players?
Question
Who else on the Blazers would have you wanted if not Batum or Fernandez?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Blake's an expiring contract.
I’m not really sure how Andre Miller helps the Wiz much in the future. Especially if you’re talking about a team with a messy financial situation.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Blake plus a draft pick
Portland needed a Big for a rental I think they might have been willing to give up a 1st round pick to get Haywood. Also Blake would have been nice to come back since a few fans might go to see him.
I understand the novelty point with Blake
I don’t think Portland was willing to give up much to get Haywood. Portland tends to play a heavy hand in trade scenarios and I think they wanted to get Haywood for less than anything the Wiz ended up getting in the current trade with Dallas.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I've always wondered just how much Portland wanted Haywood.
It’s hard for me to see how that team could accumulate so many assets, then trade them for what…two, three months of Brendan Haywood? They’re 8th in the West, and I don’t see Haywood moving them up past 6th.
Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.
Yeah that's true.
It’s also possible that Pritchard is so tight fisted that he wouldn’t ever consider giving anything up other than a poo-poo platter for Haywood. It kinda sounds to me, though, that Fernandez’s agent probably drove those rumors (given that Fernandez is unhappy with his role up there) and there was definitely a problem of not having money match (I’m sure Portland could have dealt Outlaw and made it work though).
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I, of course, would have wanted those two
My question is whether Grunfeld ever really wanted young players, or whether he was more focused on cutting salary.
I understand that.
But if Ted Leonsis is going to be the next owner, wouldn’t he want to cut bait and save the team money in the interim? My point is that unless you’re getting significant talent back (and I don’t think Fernandez or Batum qualify), saving money is probably the better avenue.
I’m not saying the Wiz don’t need to win in the future. Every team needs to win to be successful. But there is more than one way to skin a cat. I learned this lesson the hard way last trade deadline with the Kings.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Leonsis has no say right now-
I asked about his influence on another thread and was told he has no input because he doesn’t have controlling interest. It’s about he Pollin’s
Understood.
But if you’re the Pollins you only decrease the possibility of selling the team with a messy financial situation.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Grunfeld says: "We needed some freshness on the team."
freshness = Cash
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
That incense is fragrant, you're so right.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
I wonder if Singleton will consent to the trade.
He has the option to not consent to a deal.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
hate it
did i say i hated this trade? well, i hate it. The Mavs just put themselves into contention for the Western conference crown. and the wiz? I hope we lose enough games to get the no 1 or 2 pick.
won't matter
we’ll just pick the next Kwame Brown.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
From a poster on the SB Nation Mavs Blog
“P.S.: Reportedly Cuban also gets a little money from the Wizards in the deal. And there are rumors he is already working on flipping over Stevenson.”
Josh Howard
I was working in New Orleans 2 years ago. Mavs were playing the Hornets in the playoffs. I saw Josh and Stackhouse at the blackjack tables around 2am at Harrah’s the night before game 2 of the series.
by 7Swords of Salat on Feb 13, 2010 8:26 PM EST reply actions
I know this sucks, but...
what else could we have gotten? Talent-wise, this trade is painful. I’m a season ticket holder and now instead of getting to see Butler and Haywood, I have to watch Howard and Gooden, who are both a step down. But we weren’t having a good season (understatement) and I don’t see how it could have changed without moves. And everyone in the league knew we were in a bad spot. So I bet trade talks were really tough, because the other teams we spoke with were in the position of dominance. We really had little choice but to clear cap space in my mind. That being said, I only think this works if we really are getting rid of Jamison, because his contract is worse than Butler’s by far. I love the guy a lot. He’s my favorite player in terms of offense and his great personality/leadership, but his defense is awful and he’s way overpaid and getting older. So we need to clear him off the payroll in order to rebuild in the summer.
barkley and mchale on tnt loving this trade..
for the Mavs. Mchale made point I made— Haywood gives Mavs size to contend against Gasol/Bynum.
Butler will return to All Star form because Kidd will get him the ball in the right spots.
Check out Grunfeld's press release
He should be ashamed of himself for lying to fans like that. There is a way to announce this deal without insulting the intelligence of your fans. What a _.
And from Michael Lee's twitter
“Grunfeld on if this deal is just a salary dump: “We’re getting some quality players here. Josh Howard was an all-star a few years ago.”"
He pretty much has to say that, though.
Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.
No he doesn't
He said the deal offers the team financial flexibility. Leave it at that. He doesn’t have to lie.
Because fans loved hearing that when it meant not drafting DeJuan Blair.
I wouldn’t say that he’s lying necessarily, but to a certain extent, why bother reading the team’s statement? We know what they will/have to/feel like they have to say.
Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.
The Kings never admitted that they were cutting their losses with Brad Miller and John Salmons last year.
They just said they were looking to change the team because it wasn’t working and the deals offered them flexibility to do so.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The pertinent quote is when he makes that contrast:
This trade gave us a good opportunity to change our short-term future and improve our long-term future,"
And yet it seems to do neither of those things in any meaningful sense. Well, in the short term I guess it makes for more losses, which in the long term will mean better young talent in the draft…. But even in terms of meaningful salary relief, meh. You had the Butler-for-Howard core deal, but the inclusion of Brendan for Gooden didn’t even do that much in terms of salary relief on the face of it. Gaining $3 million in cap room for one year (the difference between Stevenson and Quinton Ross) is hardly worth an NBA center. If there was ever any chance of getting a Rudy Fernandez type, that would have been vastly preferable to $3 million for the future of the team.
(Cuban’s going to deal Dampier, here. His “monster expiring” will get turned around to reload. He’s going all-in.)
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Cuban also has a team that could be considered championship caliber.
The Wiz are nowhere near that.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
stupidity
Look I love Caron and Brendan. But this had to be done and anyone who thinks it was a bad deal, what the hell good was happening with our team. Wake up and smell the coffe. We sucked. We may have made the playoffs a few times, and hey i loved it more than anyone but we werent even that good then.
I say we bench howard and gooden, finish in the worst 3 and hope for wall next year another good pick in 2011 and then getting durant. that would be my model and i think its a feasible yet probably only 20% scenario. But hey F it were so overdue for a little luck
he says he would like to
he is from the MD area and is considering coming here in the future. Unless B-more gets a team in whichcase he could go there.
I could see it happening
OKC has a good thing going now, but a lot can change in four years.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 13, 2010 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
When did he ever say that?
From what I hear, he loves OKC. Who wouldn’t with the young talent they have there?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk
do the Mavs have a Fan Blog we can join...??
…i wanna tell their fans what a great deal they got… especially Haywood…who is the best kept secret in the NBA….he gives Shaq, Dwight, and KG fits.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
To me it depends on whether they can get further under the cap.
If there is another move or two that genuinely helps the team save money and/or get some picks or players for the future, fine. But if this is all there is and/or lets other teams know that the Wizards will take back pretty much anything…I don’t know.
Shoals from FreeDarko asked on Twitter whether this starts an arms race. In some ways, this could make it more likely that another team trades for Jamison in order to keep up with the Mavs. (That’s a stretch, I admit.)
Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.
I get what Shoals is saying
Didn’t a lot of people say the Mavs went all in with the Jason Kidd trade after the Lakers forced their hand with the Pau Gasol deal? I know this trade isn’t on that level, but I think there’s truth to what he’s saying. I don’t know who would want Jamison in the West, though.
Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.
by Jake Whitacre on Feb 13, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
It wasn't just the deal for Gasol. I think that also included the Shaq deal to Phx at that point.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That's right
I knew there was a deal I was forgetting.
Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.
by Jake Whitacre on Feb 13, 2010 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
I read something interesting by Norsktroll at Mavs Moneyball
That the Wiz sent money to the Mavs. Is there any way that’s true?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yeah, I meant Jamison in the West is a stretch
not what Shoals said.
I guess if you squint hard enough (or if Jamison had a better contract) Phoenix might make sense. If Jamison was a better defender, mayyyyybe Denver.
Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.
I really wonder if there is any deal out there for Jamison.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Clarification
Jamison to Phoenix would be predicted on Stoudamire going to Cleveland.
Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.
I'm curious why Phx would do that
Take on more money?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
As I said, it would be a stretch
particularly since they don’t like spending money. But, they’d have a semi-serious need for a PF with Stoudemire gone (even if they got Hickson back from Cleveland), and Steve Nash still has three years left on his deal, and will need someone to play with next year besides Jared Dudley and Taylor Griffin.
Jamison and Young for Jason Richardson works, by the way.
Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.
That isn't too much of a stretch though.
Not really sure why Nick Young is all that attractive to anybody though.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Nevermind it's just to make the whole thing work.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He has a reasonable contract.
And some team might think he’d do better with a change of scenery.
Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.
Yeah makes sense.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Do folks realistically think that we will get rid of Jamison-
does anyone realistically want him?
I think Cleveland does
at least, they want a player with his general skill-set. I don’t know if the Wizards want to take back what Cleveland’s offering, though.
Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.
We want him, only way we don’t go for Jamison is if we get Amare, but even if we get him you still have interest from Boston. I’d be shocked if Jamison isn’t traded.
by CavsLebronFan on Feb 13, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
I think Boston's a bit trickier
They have a lot of PFs who expect minutes, and Jamison has said numerous times he dislikes playing SF (although he might for a team like Boston).
They also don’t have a lot of big contracts to match Jamison’s other than Garnett/Pierce/Allen; the first two aren’t being traded, and Ainge has reportedly told Ray Allen he’s not being traded and probably knows there’d be an uproar if he went ahead and did it anyway.
Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.
I think they'd be able to find minutes for him
Rasheed can play center, Garnett is fragile, and all of their guys can defend multiple positions, so he could technically play small forward while guard a power forward.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 13, 2010 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
We all knew that this day was coming...
but its still a sad day. We lose three guys who have done alot for this franchise and this city. Caron Butler with his two all-star appearances and his work with the city, he brought toughness along with Deshawn Stevenson. I know he’s been getting a lot of slack from a lot of fans the past couple of years but he was a great player for us from 06-08. He averaged 11 and was a knock-down three point shooter, who brought pride to the franchise, and had the Verizon Center absolutely hating Lebron, and booing him everytime down the court. After game 3 of that 08 series, Deshawn was the king of this town. Brendan Haywood, became a force for us over the last three years, and he’s been here for 9 years, we watched him grow from a soft 7 footer to a borderline all-star!!! Thank you to all three of these guys!!
This is a tough day…..WELCOME TO YEARS AND YEARS OF FUTILITY!
by SkinsWizStangs on Feb 13, 2010 8:46 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
wake up
we were already in futility this gives us the chance to break out of it. I do agree all 3 of these guys helped us and I liked them all at various points but we were mediocre at best. what do you all think would have happened if we kept them?
by iluvthebullets on Feb 13, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
Except we are still mediocre and got nothing in return
This deal doesn’t make us any better this year (not like that matters) and doesn’t give us any future picks or players. Couldn’t we at least have gotten the rights to Calathes in this deal?
And all the cap room in the world isn’t going to get us any of the 1st tier of free agents, and probably won’t get us any of the 2nd tier either.
Cap Room can get you other things though
That includes future draft picks for players that teams don’t want to pay when they’re over the luxury tax. Look at the Eric Maynor deal between Utah & OKC.
There is more than one way to skin the cat. The question is whether Ernie Grunfeld and the management team have the creativity and willingness to do it that way.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
what was it ? 4 years ago?
Some kid named Rondo was on this horrible Celtics team while Eddie Jordan was coaching in the All Star Game. Rondo was blowing by Gil left and right. We either lost or barely won that game. I don’t remember which.
There were a lot of young teams that we beat on that year in addition to the Celtics- the Hawks, Trail Blazers, Bobcats. All those teams have passed us by. The Celtics won a championship. The Thunder is a playoff contender.Except for the Celtics, all these teams built through the draft with a few select free agents.
Atlanta is a good model of patience and drafting. Meanwhile, we had to horrible seasons. And we may not have any young talent to show for it after this season.
theBIGC1982
If Atlanta can build a contender, we can
All those lottery picks, and only one of their top five players was one of their own lottery picks. Can you imagine how much faster they could have become elite if they hadn’t drafted Shelden Williams, Marvin Williams, or Acie Law or if they’d kept Childress?
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 13, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
Anybody can build a contender.
It’s just a matter of getting lucky, putting the right pieces together, and not being afraid to move a player in the right deal for your team.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I understand that something needed to change.
I just said it was a tough day. I’m a person who don’t believe rebuilds like this work. You need to get extremely lucky and draft a superstar. We don’t have that luck. Also, if we’re going into rebuild mode, why this move? We got no younger, no picks, just cap room. We traded two guys who have all-star talent for guys who won’t be here in 8 months. Cap room gets you nothing, if you won’t use it, and for next year we probably won’t. I believe we could’ve gotten a better deal.
by SkinsWizStangs on Feb 13, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
soulja boy
Yep…i was there for the “white out” playoff game at the vz center vs. the cavs. the place was rockin. you couldn’t hear yourself think. the rivalry was red hot, thanks to Deshawn.
Yep
I was there too. Best atmosphere at a game I’ve ever experienced. We lost that series but damn that game was fun. I had trouble sleeping that night. It takes special skills to start a hip hop fued
Ah, lets take this time to reminisce with youtube....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HgkTvdr8Jc
…the good ole days lol
by SkinsWizStangs on Feb 13, 2010 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
If I could describe their tenure here, it would be with this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16XCffKwFII
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk
I'm glad I got to meet both -
Haywood and Stevenson this year at a wiz autograph session. Thanks for everything guys.
my kids are bummed out about the trade...
…. they liked Butler and Haywood. My seven year old asks if his Butler jersey is now a collectors item. I told them not to worry; we’ll watch their favorite players on nba league pass every night, but only for another team.
I know they can't have them in a package deal, but any chance Howard or Gooden could be traded?
Their expiring deals do have some value, maybe the Blazers would be interested in Gooden? Howard is harder to move, but Gooden isn’t a huge deal so it could be interesting to look into. Memphis might be another option, though they are looking for a guard.
I think this is possible that the Blazers & Wiz may agree on a deal with Drew Gooden.
The price for Gooden is much less steep than what it would have been for Butler.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If I were the Wiz I'd ask for Joel Freeland and Petteri Koponen along with Travis Outlaw.
But that’s me.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm content with this year's 1st rounder ...anyway they could get Koponen would be amazing
I’d also suggest Blake over Outlaw. 2 reasons Blake is still a local hero and will get some love from the Wizards fans. Also he’s a solid veteran and can maybe help our young players.
Portland doesn't want to deal him though.
That’s the problem.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yeah, you don't want to piss off your franchise player
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 13, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
That and they need players who can play given all their health problems.
That’s one advantage to dealing Outlaw. He isn’t playing.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I was wondering the same thing
Any chance the Celtics will want Howard?
by 7Swords of Salat on Feb 13, 2010 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt it
If for nothing else than Pierce & Howard don’t complement each other that well.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Boston probably wants a shooting guard and/or a scorer
Howard isn’t the former and he’s been horrible at being the latter.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 13, 2010 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah perfectly put.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I also think they want another ball handler that Allen is.
Maybe, maybe not, but I think they are trying to use Allen to bring in something that “really” entices them. Nobody is biting. (And nobody should.)
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
the fans on Mavs Moneyball are loving it...i just posted something about how they are
getting a steal with Haywood.
The best part of this deal?
We’re going to run two guys who won’t ever play here again after this year for 35 minutes a game rather than give the minutes to our young guys. Scratch that and make it 3. Mike James is back y’all!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk
Here's something I don't understand
The Wizards are at 15 roster spots…. By league rule, they cannot exceed 15, for any reason – ever.
So they trade 3 players, and get back 4. Now they are at 16 roster spots…. Illegal according to NBA RULES….
They cannot even take these players and release one… the trade is invalid unless the Wizards released a player BEFORE THE TRADE HAPPENED.
Did something happen that I didn’t hear about? (Oberto to Dallas for a Trade Exception?, Released Boykins?)
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I think because Arenas and Crittenton are suspended for the rest of the season
They don’t count against the roster limit, so technically they only had 13 players on the roster. Now they have 14.
Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.
by Jake Whitacre on Feb 13, 2010 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
I think someone cleared that up above.
Apparently Gilbert and Critt don’t count against the roster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk
OK
Another question…
Arenas and Crittenton were suspended with 51 games left in the season….
but 176 days left on their contracts…. (NBA contracts run from July 1 through June 30th)…
How are the suspensions calculated…?
In other words, 1/2 of the money the Wizards pays to the League for the suspended players is not counted on the Salary cap…. so How is that calculated? Is it 51 of 82 games? or 176 of 365 days?
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
From Steinberg's twitter
CSN’s promo for Wednesday’s Wiz game featured three action clips of the team. They all starred Andray Blatche.
New face of the franchise? Maybe telling that Jamison not featured.. meaning they are willing to trade him
So why didn't any of them favor JaVale McGee?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Any franchise that calls Andray Blatche "the Face" of their franchise,
can pretty much just call it quits in the NBA. Then again, we don’t have many of those marketable types of guys at this point
by returnofswagger on Feb 13, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Willing?
Or maybe already have a deal worked out…..
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
We can hope!!!
Would infinitely cheer me up even though he’s my favorite player.
Back to the days of promoting/marketing the other teams players...
… back to the future…the Wizards will be selling 14 game packs…advertising “See Kobe, Lebron, KG, and Caron play your Washington Wizards”
depressing.
I like the move -- but only as a starting point
Jamison needs to be moved as well. It would have been nice to get a young piece as well, but whatever.
I would not be surprised if Cle is trying to push the Amare rumor mill as a way to get Wash desperate enough to take their offer of Z straight up.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I have read alot that seems like they are legitamitely going after him.
Including that article that ooba just posted.
by returnofswagger on Feb 13, 2010 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
That doesn't necessarly mean much though.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That's true
But I wouldn’t be surprised if they are going after him. Maybe they are thinking going after a big name like that will bring a certain FA back next year
by returnofswagger on Feb 13, 2010 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
Who knows what will bring LeBron back.
My guess is that being able to offer more money than anybody else is a head start.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Well being in NY
he could probably make up the loss in salary with more endorsements. But why would he want to go there when they have a lousy team
Well put.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Why Not?
I would not be surprised if Cle is trying to push the Amare rumor mill as a way to get Wash desperate enough to take their offer of Z straight up.
Might as well dump AJ now. Then we can start Z, Gooden, Howard, Miller, and Foye. Five starters who weren’t Wizards last season. It will at least be interesting until Ted takes over and personally drives a big bulldozer through this team later this year.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Well with all due respect to Ted Leonsis
When you have that many Free Agents you’re going to drastically re-change your team anyway you slice it.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
ok..onto the imp stuff….who should we look forward to in the lottery and who do they compare to?
by les boulez bomber on Feb 13, 2010 11:06 PM EST reply actions
Please lets start talking draft... for the next few months.
I have heard a lot of Cousins fans. I don’t know if I am interested in a guy with work habits/ attitude questions. I think Evan Turner is gonna be a star. Side note: on ESPN website, Chad Ford has Larry Sander(VCU) #1 on his big board. That kinda came out of nowhere
by returnofswagger on Feb 13, 2010 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
Larry Sanders?
Wow.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
VCU Babeee!!!
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Don't know what the hell that is about.
He’s good, but not that good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk
It's gotta' be....
A mistake. Like, some technician put his elbow on the keyboard wrong or something.
Play Singleton
Add Singleton to the list of guys I want to see get enough minutes to evaluate. Dude had a PER of 16.4 last year, the only time in his career that he got any kind of minutes. Pretty good for a guy with a rep for being a tough defender. Although I suppose there’s a reason he doesn’t play much…
Let’s say hypothetically that we deal Jamison for Z, and then waive Z. This should be the depth chart (with starters limited to 30-32 mins):
Foye/Boykins/James
Miller/Young/Ross
Howard/Singleton/McGuire
Blatche/Gooden/McGuire
McGee/Gooden/Oberto
That’s a terrible team unless Howard regains his prime and McGee flourishes. Still, there’s probably a couple guys we’ll hang on to as we rebuild.
This is garbage and I am embarassed to have wasted time carrying about this organization
They just took a giant crap on our collective faces. Thanks for nothing Wiz.
I am not buying anything Wizards branded and I am not going to another game until the ownership changes and the front office is decimated. I don’t think they have left me any other option.
Thanks to all three guys...
they gave the fans some good moments 2005-2008 (lest anyone forget the long dark ages that preceded the 3 year playoff run)….
And yes I agree with the posters above, give James Singleton a chance. The man can play ball.
Looks like Amare is headed to Cleveland
Celtics have to counter, right?
by 7Swords of Salat on Feb 14, 2010 8:10 AM EST reply actions
Danny Ferry is his own worst enemy
No way Amare goes to Cleveland and resigns there next year. Also, I don’t see any way how Amare’s style of play will sync next to LeBron and especially Shaq, who need to be near the basket. After half a year of that, Amare is gone. And then…with no Amare, what are the odds of LeBron staying in Cleveland, either? The only way this could possibly work is that Amare is involved in a sign & trade, and maybe sideshow bob starts at center next year.
by Tbonebullets on Feb 14, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
All right so who plays center
Please don’t say its Oberto. Don’t tell me its Oberto. Its gonna be Oberto isn’t it.
Hopefully he is the dumpee in the trade exception component of...
this deal. It’s time to give JVM his shot. Nothing to lose folks.
They'll play Blatche at center
with Gooden taking any minutes Blatche doesn’t use….
Jamison will play PF, and Howard will play SF
If they trade Jamison (not looking that likely, now) we might see a little more JaVale….but don’t look for him to be a starter or anything…
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
You are probably right....
Unless Celts take a flyer on AJ as their PF situation is really pretty desperate…. There is also the question of whether someone might think Miller could help them.
The lottery is our fate for certain, but it was in any case. The question is how low we can go, though even second worst did not do the job for us last year.
And Banquo’s ghost is still at the table.
DeShawn Stevenson
I have a horrible feeling he will be back here,
Cuban will likely waive him and we will take him for depth.
Wiz have 14 roster spots
Not 15.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
There's absolutely zero
to look forward to after this trade. This is the best Ernie could do; he just got a train run on him by Cuban.
I guess I'm late
to this party. Anyway, this trade is horrible. Like I said before, if we were just clearing space, I would’ve rather gotten McGrady and given us something to watch this year. Now we have 4 forwards who will undoubtedly be in front of our young guys on the depth chart. And we did not get any kind of youth or draft pick in return. Which means that all of our hopes are centered on free agency. Sorry, but I just don’t see any top tier free agents coming here. Plus, even if they did, why would we want to sign someone to a deal this year that will be outdated once the new CBA comes around? Either way, I’m just sick of looking to free agency as a way to build the team. How many times do you have to go to that well before you realize it’s not working?
Maybe Ted will take over soon, and he can make George McPhee the GM. Who cares that he doesn’t know basketball. I just want him to stockpile draft picks for us.
a silver lining?
Someone else may have mentioned this already – apologies if so – but what if this trade really makes the Mavs the team to beat in the west? And let’s say the Mavs keep Stevenson. You see where this is going…they end up playing against the Cavs in the NBA finals…Haywood has certainly antagonized Cleveland fans too. Wouldn’t it be nice to be able to pull for those guys and feel a bit of the Wizards rivalry renewed against LeTravel…?
Long shot, but it would be a consolation prize for me at least.
"the chevy chase bank deposit!"
by newmaniumreveler on Feb 14, 2010 1:15 PM EST reply actions
Boo.
The only thing that could make me care about following the Wizards before the draft is Leonsis taking over and firing Grunfeld. I have to think, if the Pollin family wasn’t holding up this whole buyout, Leonsis could have taken more control of this and we at least could have gotten a draft pick from someone. Top 10 SF. Top 10 C. Nothing.
Boo.
...one of those guys who reads all the time but barely comments
by Juice over Whine on Feb 14, 2010 1:53 PM EST reply actions
Getting Howard for Butler is about the closest thing to equal value that we were going to see
And Drew Gooden for Haywood is not all that terrible. Yeah, we’re still giving him away, but Gooden is a good role player. The question is, do they have any intention of holding onto these guys?
I hope not.
...one of those guys who reads all the time but barely comments
by Juice over Whine on Feb 14, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
God I hope not
Howard and Butler are equal talent-wise. But Howard is a knucklehead with character issues, while Butler has no character problems. And Gooden for Haywood is a joke. I have been a HUGE doubter of Haywood, but there is no denying that he is a top 10 center this year. And since TRUE centers don’t grow on trees, we should have gotten more than spare parts for him.
It pains me to know that Cuban is laughing his ass off at Grunfeld’s ineptness right now.
You're baiting me, right?
there is no denying that he is a top 10 center this year
I think this is a bit of homerism. I’d agree that he’s about the 10th best center defensively, but he’s 24th in PER among centers, which accounts fairly well for everything but defense.
Just to test my thinking, I looked up all the subjective center rankings I could find on the Internet. I stopped after looking at about 15 and seeing Brendan in the top 10 zero times. When the lists were long enough to include him (something like half of them), he fell between 14th-24th.
I deny it comfortably.
According to Hoops Hype
These are our salaries for next year:
Arenas $17.7 mil
Jamison $13.3 mil
Foye $4.8 mil (qualifying offer)
Blatche $3.2 mil
Young $2.6 mil
McGee $1.6 mil
Ross $1.1 mil (player option)
Total if Ross exercises his option and we extend the qualifying offer to Foye: $44.5 mil.
Total if we don’t extend the QO to Foye: $39.8 mil
Total if no Foye and we are able to trade Jamison for expiring contracts: $26.5 mil.
Assuming a cap of $53 mil, we would have $26.5 mil of space, which I believe would be more than any other team barring more trades. What’s my point? I don’t know except that maybe things aren’t as terrible as we think. Obviously, trading Jamison is the key. And I understand that we probably could/should have gotten more for Caron and Haywood. But looking forward, we do have a couple good options. We can either try to sign a big name this summer or we can “rent out” our cap space as another poster put it for draft picks (my preference).
Of course we have botched a number of things in the past year. (Ricky Rubio, Dejuan Blair, not getting draft picks in this trade with Dallas). These mistakes will undoubtedly delay our rebuilding. But going forward I don’t think things are as bleak as we are thinking. So I’ll end with a question, what bad contracts can we take on with our cap space next year that will allow us to accumulate draft picks?
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 14, 2010 1:57 PM EST reply actions
I just saw JonathanJoseph's Fanpost
I probably should have commented there since he’s already said everything I have.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 14, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
This does not even account for a buyout of Banquo's Ghost
Assume we buy the ghost man out for $20 mil amortized over 4 years… That’s an added $12 million in cap space next season.
Then let’s say the Celtics are desperate enough to relieve us of AJ and Mike Miller for Ray Allen and Brian Scalabrine… them we have virtually the entre cap amount to play with plus a top 3 (heh heh) draft pick.
Agreed
Except I can’t believe that anyone is still complaining about the Wizards’ not selecting Rubio. I couldn’t understand it originally, much less now.
The problem I have with that deal
is that we made it too early. There is no reason to deal a draft pick before the draft. Waiting until we are on the clock puts more pressure on our trade partners who have a specific player in mind that they want to get. There were lots of teams interested in Rubio – we should have gotten more from that trade.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 14, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
To all those who still think we could have gotten more for caron and brendan
I mean, this trade obviously doesn’t make us that much better, but there wasn’t much else on the table. Every team in the league knew that we were going to trade Caron and Brendan, therefore there was no incentive for them to offer us anything other than cap relief in return. The Mavs weren’t gonna give us Beaubois, and couldn’t give us a draft pick because they had traded their draft picks in ‘08 and ’09. So to those of you who still think we could have gotten more out of this trade, unfortunately we couldn’t.
Also, we never realistically had a chance at trading for T-Mac. The trade that was proposed would have sent him to NY, and Al Harrington to Washington.
Expecting a team to offer anything of value, including lottery picks for any of our players is completely unrealistic. Our terrible record, and the Gilbert Arenas situation forced our hand, limiting what we could expect in return in any trade.
That's true and not true
If there were a number of teams interested in Caron/Brenden then we should have been able to leverage that interest to receive a deal where our own desperation was no longer informing the deal. If the Mavs were in fact our only option, then they had all the negotiating leverage.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 14, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
But the Mavs weren't the only team interested in Haywood
Utah, Portland, Houston were all inquiring about Haywood (in addition to Dallas)….
And there were inquiries about Butler (supposedly, he was the most sought after Wizard)….
Jumping on the first available deal (Haywood/Butler for cap relief) is a Grunfeld signature move…..
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I agree
I was pointing out that our own desperation to clear cap space wouldn’t have impacted the deal if there were more than one suitor (unless those suitors conspired to keep the price down).
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 14, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
According to this ESPN.com article...
Sources: Teams sweeten Amare offers
“Miami has pursued Stoudemire hard but has no one on its roster (besides Dwyane Wade) that interests Phoenix, according to sources. That includes Michael Beasley. So it would take a three-team deal for Stoudemire to be traded to the Heat.”
I’m too lazy to look into this in any great level of detail, but is there any possibility of a trade that takes Stoudemire to Miami, Jamison to Phoenix, and Beasley to Washington? What mix of players, picks, etc. would make something like this work?
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