A league source informed me that a possible three-way deal involving the Wizards, New York and Houston "doesn't have legs right now." Yahoo! Sports NBA columnist Adrian Wojnarowski reported on Wednesday that the Knicks, Rockets and Wizards "are in the discussion stages of a complicated" trade that would send Tracy McGrady to the Knicks, Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood to the Rockets and Al Harrington to the Wizards. Another source confirmed the discussions, but added that nothing is imminent.
about 2 years ago
Mike Prada
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yikes
the rockets stay raping other teams once again
Lee's impossible to move because he loses his Bird Rights in any trade
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
ok we better get al harrington and gallinari then
i wish the nets were involved in this trade so we’d get lopez and terrence williams
You're being kind of unrealistic
We’d be lucky to get Jordan Hill, and the Nets won’t trade Lopez for anybody.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Jordan Hill! Yay!
Isn’t it funny that we could have just picked him up with the #5 pick in the draft last year if we liked him so much?
I hate this franchise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk
Yeah
It’s pretty sad that we basically sold the fifth pick in the draft in order to get out of paying Darius Songaila five million dollars next year.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
David Lee doesn't have his Bird rights?
He’s been with the Knicks for a while now. Why doesn’t he have his Bird rights already?
He loses them if he's traded because he's on a one-year contract
Therefore, he has a no-trade clause, just like Devean George did when he vetoed the Kidd trade initially.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Weird.
But isn’t he likely to lose his Bird rights anyway? If the Knicks sign a max player, they won’t have much left over to offer Lee the kind of dollars he wants.
It's possible
The Knicks will have to renounce him, but there’s the slight chance they move Jeffries and get more cap space. It’s slight, but it’s there.
Regardless, I’d guess he’d want to play in a better situation than this, as long as he loses his Bird Rights.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Yeah, probably. Sigh.
How about if we shuffled some guys around? David Lee goes to the Rockets, while we get someone good from Houston who doesn’t have veto power.
and let the Haywood and Caron bidding begin
Now that real trades are on the table. Teams see that they can get two really good pieces both at reasonable contracts that expire this year and next year. And you see that all the Wiz want is young talent and picks.
I would think the deals start getting better. All you need is two bidders. The wiz let this float and other teams start coming in.
Once that trade is done, you play chicken with the cavs. If they have not budged by 1 hr remaining at the trade deadline and we just hand them twan and let the rebuilding begin. Hopefully with some draft picks and young talent
Mike P.-- how does Butler/Haywood roundabout trade for Harrington benefit the Wiz?
Haywood’s inspired play is the only thing good to come out of this season so far. He’s a solid double-double guy, who blocks shots, plays solid D and gets offensive rebounds. I really hope we can keep him. I’d have no problem parting with AJ, Butler or anyone else (except Arenas).
Retaining Haywood is unlikely in the extreme
but I fail to see what the Wiz get from this proposed trade.
Our two best trading assets for Harrington and a non-lotto first rounder?
by MR on Feb 10, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
It depends on the other pieces
But like sierradave said, you’d think that, if those other pieces were valuable, we’d have heard about them. Therefore, it kind of sucks.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I thought about that but unless they are afraid to pay him this summer they would have to be nuts to trade him
He’s one of the leagues best up and coming players IMHO.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 10, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Would we even really want to retain him?
I’ve lost a lot of faith in McGee this year (especially after I noticed that he’s averaging less than 6 rebounds per 36 minutes, which is less than Bargnani and, uh, all six feet of Kyle Lowry), but it’d be better for us to try to develop him next year while tanking for a better draft pick rather than using Haywood to win an extra five games.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
sample size is way too small.
Be more worried about his d than his rebounding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk
by hibachi on Feb 10, 2010 5:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The thing about his defense
is that for every basket he gives up with his blown assignments and rotations, he seems to prevent another with his shotblocking. His man to man d is horrible, but I like having him there to block shots on the weakside. He’d be really good playing next to a tough, muscular guy who can’t block shots like Hayes, Love, Jefferson, or even Boozer, but our current roster is going to bring out the worst in him.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
It worries me
that Harrington is the centerpiece of this trade for us as reported. If it was Harrington+Hill, you’d think we’d be hearing that.
Harrington+Hill is just as sucky as Harrington.
I really don’t like this trade and would rather see Haywood expire than give the Rockets so much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk
I like Hill, but I still think we're not getting enough for Haywood and Butler
I would be fine with getting Hill for Butler or Haywood, but not both.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see
the difference between this and us just getting McGrady. Harrington is a highly talented player, but he obviously has issues because he gets moved from everywhere he goes. So why help New York out when we’re not getting anything any better than if we just swapped with Houston?
I think his main issues are that he doesn't play defense and he's not a particularly efficient scorer
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
Al Harrington for Caron & Haywood
Scratches his head, I guess we give up Arenas, Butler, and Haywood for…. Al Harrington the 6th man on a championship team.
Scratches head again, I guess as long as we have the same Gm’s and management were going to continue bad decision making and player assessment.
Al Harrington really??? Blow it up and build around Al Harrington? Seriously?? Hmm maybe I just dont know basketball like Ernie does
Whats with picking up players with history of injury??? I see the Wizards going 19 + wins again next season if we continue to make shitty player choices like we always do.
Once Haywood leaves I put money that he will average the most for any center in the league above Howard and DeBlair etc. Watch, thats how our lucks rolls. You say no. You watch and have to say yes, its just how it works with this team. Cough.. Roger Mason
roger mason has kinda sucked this year from what ive watched.
And holding onto haywood doesn’t fit into our rebuilding plans so who cares what he does somewhere else. They just need to try and get the best value for him that they can.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk
by hibachi on Feb 10, 2010 5:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm ok with 19 wins next year, so long as we're playing a bunch of young guys
I actually think we’ll be better off if we suck the rest of the year and all of next year, so long as we draft well and get really young a la the Sonics/Thunder after they got rid of Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis. We just need to make sure we get at least one Evans or Durant-caliber player and not a bunch of Jeff Greens and Randy Foyes.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
Well, Ernie's not been that great at drafting, so getting rid of him might help
His second round picks (Dom and Blatche) have been good, but we haven’t drafted anyone who could start on a good team since, when, Rip Hamilton? I don’t mind passing up Rondo or Tyreke Evans or some other player who was drafted late but turned out good, but you can’t draft mediocre guys every single year.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
There isn't one
I don’t know of too many good but out of work GMs, but I don’t trust Ernie to make quality picks. I think we need to fire him if we want to rebuild successfully.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think he is a good trader bad drafter
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 10, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
Ernie isn't the problem, nor is he the solution
the problem is:
• Ping pong balls and the way they bounce randomly
• Ping pong balls and the way they bounce against us
• There is only 1 Durant every 3-5 years
If it comes down to it, we might be able to sign a franchise player as a free agent
Assuming we can draft a Westbrook, an Mbah-A-Moute, and a Kevin Love, it won’t be impossible to get someone like Bosh or Durant or Brandon Roy to come here. Actually, by the time we’re almost done rebuilding, Durant should be a free agent.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Whether our lucky bounce comes in the draft or free agency or trade
we still need to get young talent to get and surround the player. I just want us to be flexible and have the ability to seize that opportunity and not be hamstrung and forced to watch our shot go by because we are all capped out with bad contracts and few good, young pieces.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 10, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree- this trade sucks.
I’d rather keep what we have now than end up getting rid of Butler and especially Haywood for Al Harrington and cap space.
the plan isnt to rebuild around harrington champ.
Its a salary dump (caron’s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk
by hibachi on Feb 10, 2010 5:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Rubio
In hindsight, maybe we shouldve kept the draft pick and used it on Rubio, instead of trading it for Foye/Miller.
I wouldve paid to see the Wiz build a team around him. Imagine having Rubio, Arenas, and lots of cap space in 2010-11.
no kidding
I nearly cried when rubio fell to five. Good one ernie!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk
by hibachi on Feb 10, 2010 6:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
ARENAS
speaking of Arenas, i’ve been out of the loop in terms of reading blogs, rumor mill, press accounts, editorials about him. Are the Wizard’s still looking to void his contract? It seems unlikely that they could do it legally. And I don’t see any NBA team taking a player with a such a pricey long-term deal, who basically has not played in the NBA for three years now. Is there any possible scenario in which Arenas ends staying reconciling with the Wizards and playing next season?
I think they could void if he goes to jail-
I can see a reconciliation if we get new ownership
I can see us playing him next year because we can't get a decent deal
and trying to trade him the entire time. If he still doesn’t want to play for us next year he can forfeit that contract by refusing to show up. I’d be willing to play chicken with him next year and endure a year or so of sullen Gil. Plus the cynical part of me thinks that as long as Arenas get his shots and isn’t required to play defense he’ll be happy anywhere.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 10, 2010 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
His WaPo oped...
… seemed to indicate a real desire to make amends with DC’s youth on the issue of gun violence. He cant do that playing in Portland or wherever. I hope he and the new Wizards ownership can reconcile — cuz I’d really like to see Arenas play again in the VZ center. The Wiz shouldn’t discard Arenas like a piece of trash; he made a mistake, he has been charged with a felony, and he will be punished under the law. After that, he should be given another chance.
His WaPo OpEd
seemed to indicate he hired a good lawyer and is trying to make a public show of remorse in advance of his sentencing. I doubt that is a good indication of his desire to stay in DC, more like his desire to spend as little time in jail as possible.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 10, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
Also, he'd undoubtedly want to stay in DC because that way, he can fulfill his contract
Not saying the op-ed was an act that had absolutely no remorse, but it was certainly one motivated in part by self-interest.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Yeah I'm not trying to denigrate the OpEd
Even if he doesn’t really believe all that right now(I have my doubts he does) sometimes saying your sorry even when you don’t really mean it is the first step towards actually meaning it and he has like 7 months to think about stuff. I just don’t think the article should really be taken as an indication he wants to play here next year.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 10, 2010 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
so the bottom line is...
… it is within the realm of possibility that Arenas stays in a Wizards uniform. I sure do hope so.
I think it is very likely he will play for the Wizards again it's just a matter of for how long
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 10, 2010 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
so the Wizards starting lineup next season ....
Arenas -PG
Miller -SG
? – SF
? – PF
Haywood – C
and who are the first 3 players off the bench?
I think moving them separately is the way to go
I also don’t see the Wizards taking on $1.5 million extra salary in this deal. The deal I would do with the Knicks is Stevenson and James for Jeffries, Hill and a future 1st round pick. I think the Knicks might be desperate enough to clear cap space that they’d give up Hill and the pick, especially since they are now pretty much out of the playoff hunt.
Also I wouldn’t want a Harrington player back in the deal, why take away minutes from your young guys.
I think that's doable if we only expect them to give up Hill or the pick
I can’t see us getting both in order to save them 3 million dollars next year, though.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
I just don't really like Jordan Hill
as being the only young piece we get out of Butler and Haywood.
Everybody thinks this deal sucks
and, considering we’re probably only hearing about the main pieces, yeah…..
But to make all the salaries work, you need to add pieces…It could very well be that the Wizards could get back Gallinari, Jordan Hill, Chase Budinger and Houston’s first round pick……
This trade works:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygx92ch
But New york is only getting expiring contracts for expiring contracts. Not much incentive there. Houston gets a great deal by getting Butler, and renting Haywood for half a year…and they only have to give up McGrady…. and The Wiz get short shafted too… only getting one young player for an All-Star and a Starting Center.
So – you see…. by only listing the “main” characters in the proposed trade – the reporting columnists may not see the entire trade picture…..
On the other hand, add a few youngsters and/or draft picks – - – swap out Harrington for Curry and the trade makes much more sense for all parties. New York wants to shed salary so much, this trade makes more sense from a Knicks perspective. They get to audition Tracy McGrady for next year. They give up Hill and Gallinari to shed Cury’s “un-tradeable” salary (and put themselves in the drivers seat for an elite Free Agent OR TWO this Summer) . Houston still gets a pretty good deal, by only giving up Budinger to get Haywood and Butler… and the Wiz get three young players, while shedding over $12 Million from next year’s salary cap..
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhnkxl7
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Plus, Curry's contract
May be valuable next year as an expiring. I was unaware until I just checked that Curry has an option year. But with a new CBA, team’s might be interested in shedding salary.
If I understand correctly
Curry has an option for the 2011-2012 season so he wouldn’t be an expiring next season. Jeffries would be an expiring next year.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 10, 2010 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
Both players will expire next year
Curry has one more year on his contract + an option year. Jeffries has two years with no options. Curry is like Stevenson. Both technically only have one more year, but both will pick up their options. Plus who thought it would be great to give D-Steve an option year?
So folks are ok picking up Curry for two years but dumping AJ's last two years is a top priority?
by MR on Feb 10, 2010 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not speaking for others
Because I don’t want any part of Curry, but his contract is a year shorter than Jamison’s and comes before lockout-gate.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Yep
This year’s bad deal is next year’s expirer. Plus, no coach in his right mind would be tempted to play Curry, whereas AJ will take minutes away from whoever our next young big is.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
You want picks and prospects?
NY is the place for that…. They desperately want to shed Jeffries and Curry….
If the Wizards are rebuilding anyway, next year doesn’t matter…. If New York is willing to give up a good prospect and/or a First round pick to take Curry off their hands…. then it’s a good deal for Washington….
Any deal Washington can make to take on a bad contract, as long as that contract does not run past the 2011 season, and if they can get a good prospect or a first round pick – I think it’s a good deal….
For instance: Curry + Gallinari for Miller + Stevenson (Wiz get a prospect in Gallinari)
or Jeffries + 2012 First round pick for Mike James (Wiz get a pick)
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Debt structure is almost always more important then the magnitude of the debt
So with contracts. Curry is a better contract because we shouldn’t be buyers next year. The year after, possibly. Getting rid of Jamison now allows us to use his dollars then. Curry only prohibits us from making moves next year – which we wont. Therefore, the extra year does not matter. Plus, an expiring large contract before the next CBA could be very valuable.
I honestly like Jermaine Taylor
more then Budinger, but I’d be much happier to just get young people on the Wiz
How about this
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yksotb8
Nick Young and Mike James for Jeffries and a 2012 first rounder draft pick and this year’s second rounder. New York frees up cap space, gets a decent shooting guard (instead of having to play Chandler out of position), and another backup point guard, while we get a future pick. Plus, we could probably flip Jeffries next year when he’s a seven million dollar expirer, maybe netting us a late first rounder from a decent team that wants to get rid of salary and pick up another perimeter defender (Utah?)
Um
Nick Young is worth more than JJ. So is Mike James. Why would the Wizards wanna do this?
It's not about getting Jared Jeffries for Young, it's getting a pick
Plus, Jeffries will be an expirer, so we might be able to trade him for another pick. Stockpiling draft picks should be our main goal right now. The Grizzlies and Timberwolves both have three first rounders this year, which is basically what I think we should try to go for.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
I think NY would do that trade without including Young
Jeffries + 2012 pick for Mike James (Jeffries and James make the exact same salary this year, so there would be no salary cap ramifications for this year…. only NY saving cap space next year)…
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Yeah, I don't like that trade
If we’re going to give NY the extra 2010 room they desperately want, we need more than a 2012 pick (which could be a mid-first or even late-first once they get someone with that cap space). I’d demand Jordan Hill and the pick at a minimum.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I only think they'd give up Hill and a pick if they're confident they'll get Lebron
But it’d be nice to try. New York’s pick in 2011 will probably be somewhere around 20-25, which isn’t great, I guess it’s a matter of how much do we want to pay for a draft pick. I don’t know who on the Knicks is considered untradeable right now, but I’d think that, after Gallinari and maybe Lee, Hill should be their next most-valued asset.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
If they won't give up Hill, I say "forget it" and try another deal
Picks are nice, but that’s too high a price to pay for too crappy a pick.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I agree
Seven million dollars or whatever Jeffries makes next year is too much to pay for the 25th pick. I’m probably getting a little too over-zealous with my desire to see us pick up draft picks.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
I like picks
but prefer dudes who have shown a little something in the league over a non lottery draft pick.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 10, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
Fans okay with continous losing seasons and bad GM decisions = Wizard fans
Refusing to have the team lose and make bad GM decisions = LA, Boston, Orlando, Cleveland fans
Theres ya difference folks!
lol whatever
Lakers= Kobe
Celtics= Garnett
Magic= Howard
Cavs= James
They’ve made bad decisions, but the fact they stay in contention every year b/c they have a solid franchise player is the difference. The only formula that gets wins no matter how the team looks= Jerry Sloan.
Yeah
Plus, Orlando was pretty bad post-Shaq and pre-Dwight, despite TMac tearing up the league. It’s also a lot easier to build around one top ten player than it is to build around a bunch of good but not elite players.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
Likewise, remember the Celtics pre-Garnett
Not exactly stellar. They had, y’know, a bunch of young guys with potential. Then they converted it into two stud players through trades, then they were good.
Demanding the team rent a vet to boost wins every year is how you get the Wizards. Commit to the sucking/rebuilding. In so doing, maximize the opportunities for something awesome to happen ("something awesome = top pick/fantastic trade)
Exactly
Actually, Boston’s way is another road map for us – get as many assets as possible, then flip them for truly elite players – Dwyane Wade, not Monta Ellis – and keep the late first rounders who are decent role players.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 11, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
How about Wally for Jamison?
Wally at $8M plus J.J. Hickson at $1.43M for Jamison would work under salary cap rules, and the Cavs could keep Zydrunas Ilgauskas.
Cleveland owns the rights to Wally Szczerbiak. They could sign him to a 3-year contract starting at $8 Million (this year) , and the final 2 years as team options, non-guaranteed. Trade Wally + Hickson to the Wizards for Jamison.
That saves Washington a little over $2 Million off this year’s Luxury Tax bill… Plus they get Hickson; and $12 Million salary Cap relief next year. That’s a better deal than Ilgauskas and Hickson for Jamison….. Unfortunately that also would mean the Wizards would have to release someone…. (or include someone else in the deal back to Cleveland??? Crittenton?)….
I’d hold out for Hickson and a pick, but I think this is as good as it’s gonna get…..
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I posted this one in MR's FanPost
I definitely think it’s a good compromise for both teams. Only caveat is that it adds more $ to Cleveland’s payroll.
Personally, I’d insist on Cleveland signing Wally to a partially-guaranteed deal if possible, so we could cut Wally and pay him, say $3 million instead of $8 million. This way, we can avoid the tax.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Yeah I love that idea. Anything that brings us back Hickson.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 10, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
I feel the same
I don’t even think Hickson will be much more than a role player and I’m willing to trade AJ for him.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Except under the current CBA
on January 10 the base salary in all contracts (except 10-day contracts) becomes guaranteed for the remainder of that season… including contracts done in Sign-and-trades…..
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
That's what I thought
But maybe there’s some loophole where they can cut him on draft day or something (before July 1).
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Another thing Cleveland could do
is Sign Wally, and trade him to Washington with Hickson and CASH (up to $3 Million can be included in the trade).
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Ooh, forgot about that
That’s an excellent compromise.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Here's what I say to Cleveland
Wally, Hickson, your 1st and $3 million cash for Antawn. You keep Z and your first round pick means nothing anyway.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Salary cap/Luxury tax for this year? or Next year?
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Curry has a player option for $11.7 million next year
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
1. We replace Jamison’s $13.4 million owned in 2010/11 and $15.1 million in 11/12 with Hickson’s $1.5 million and $2.3 million, plus whatever the pick’s contract is (around $1 million each year, unless we draft and stash a Euro). $10+ million savings both years.
2. We save around $2 million this year (Wally+Hickson=$9.5 million combined, if Wally signs for $8 million, and Jamison makes $11.6 million), while still fitting the trade into the 125%-100% rule. That’s actually $4 million because we’re over the luxury tax. Then, the $3 million in cash can pay a large portion of our remaining tax bill.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
He goes on it for this year
Then, they can cut him for 2011 and 2012 (Sheridan’s scenario has Wally as fully unguaranteed) and he’s not on there at all.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Wally gets released.....
NBA rules say you have to sign a player a 3-year contract, but only the first year needs to be guaranteed.
Cleveland signs Wally to a 3-year deal, starting at $8 Million for this year.
We buy out his contract this year…. $8 Million and don’t pick up the options for years 2 and 3….
We save $2 Million this year (actually $4, because we won’t be paying the tax on that 2 Million)….. because Jamison’s salary is $2 Million higher than Wally + Hickson….
As a technicality – Wally doesn’t affect our Salary Cap at all.. The Cap is set at ~ $58 Million – and the Wizards , after doing the trade will STILL be over the Salary Cap -
On the other hand, the Luxury tax is set at $69.9 Million…. The Wizards are currently about $8-9 Million over the cap. However, Half of Arenas and Crittenton’s salary, while they are suspended, does not count… so they save about $5 Million there… If they do the Wally trade, that saves another $2 Million…. That gets the Wizards down to about $1-2 Million over the Luxury Tax line… If Cleveland kicks in $3 Million Cash, that would break even for this year.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Even though the pick would be late first round....
I think Cleveland will balk at giving up both Hickson AND their first round pick….. I think that’s been the sticking point the entire time…. Washington has been “asking too much” (ie: both Hickson and a pick)……
I’d do the deal for Hickson, saving $2M off this year’s cap, and $3 Million cash; I think that’s a fair trade for Jamison.
Then, I’m gonna dance a jig when Cleveland bows out in the second round this year, LeBron bolts for Miami, and Cleveland is stuck in Cap Hell for 2 more years (while they pay $10 Million to Mo Williams, $7 Million to Varejao, and $13 Million to Jamison)
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Yeah, the pick's not a deal-breaker
But might as well try. If they balk, do it without the pick.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I really hope this works out
I still don’t understand why the FO isn’t bending over backwards to ensure we will cut Z if that is a sticking point. What can we possibly gain from allowing them to fear we won’t cut him?
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 10, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
Even if Washington makes it clear they’re willing to agree to a buyout, there are some regulations that keep the two teams from discussing/negotiating the details if Ilgauskas is traded. The Cavs are concerned enough about losing their backup center for 30 days, so I’d imagine the possibility of a lengthy buyout process might also frighten them. How much will the Wizards be willing to offer Ilgauskas for a buyout? For that matter, what would Ilgauskas find acceptable? The Cavs aren’t allowed to discuss that with Ilgauskas either.
Wally is a good solution to that problem, though presumably a costly one for the Cavs because they’d have to pay the luxury tax on whatever Wally would get signed for. I’m not sure they ever considered the Wally option as one they’d use for a larger contract like Jamison’s. But it’s an interesting option if they want Jamison bad enough.
by Johnnie Futbol on Feb 11, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
I'm fine with it
Let’s just get AJ off the books, anything extra would be great. Plus, Cleveland won’t actually improve that much by replacing Hickson with Jamison. AJ’s obviously better, but playing him next to someone as immobile as Shaq will create a pretty big defensive liability.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know I think the pick is key
I know we all think of Jamison as a bad contract, and it is on a rebuilding team, but for Cleveland its not that bad of a deal. The Wizards have to get more than Hickson in this deal. I think even the 30th pick in the 1st round is valuable, i mean how many guys were taken in the 2nd round this year that look like productive NBA players (seriously what were we thinking giving up our 2nd rounder).
I hope we don't give up our second rounder
That’d be madness, especially because it’s a high second-rounder and basically is the same as Cleveland’s first-rounder, except without the guaranteed salary.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Agree completely
I’d only deal it to trade up. Outside of that I want multiple draft picks. There is all this hype about top 5 or top 10 picks, but guys like Lawson, Collison, Gibson, Casspi all were good first round picks outside of the lottery. And in the 2nd round there were a number of productive players. And thats just the results after one season. I hope we finally invest in the draft this season, because that is the only way the Wizards will recover.
by Steve Shoup on Feb 10, 2010 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, this so-called bad draft...
has yielded a good number of very productive players. Collison has been impressive as hell stepping in from Chris Paul.
In theory, the Wizards should be trying to pick up as many draft picks and expirings as possible, it’s the only way to remake the team…
But this assumes we have been adept at scouting, doesn’t it?
And then there is Gilbert, who is the equivalent of Banquo’s ghost at Ernie MacBeth’s table…
What an effing soap opera.
Ok, here's another scenario
We basically trade out Haywood and whoever else we need to in order to pick up Kyle Lowry, giving us a young, defensive-minded, athletic point guard who should be good for another eight or nine years. Then, we draft DeMarcus Cousins, giving us a lowpost scorer and strong big man, who we can probably play next to Javale, who’d give us a shotblocker to compensate for his lack of truly elite athleticism. We’ll suck in 2010-2011 with all these young guys, but at least we’ll be bad enough that we can draft the best shooting guard or small forward available in 2011, then we use our cap space in 2011 or 2012 to sign the best free agent available.
your getting close to the answer...
providing Cousins has his head on straight.
The head on straight thing is what kind of scares me about him
Something about him reminds me of Eddy Curry, and with Javale’s issues as far as focus, it could be really bad to play them together. Still, on paper at least, he seems like he’d be a perfect fit for us as we rebuild.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 11, 2010 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
I'd rather Grab
Greg Monroe… Cousins will be a good pro… Monroe has a chance to be elite. Whenever I watch him play, I droll over his combination of athleticism and size and court-feel. He is not just 6-10. He is a BIG 6-10.
I'd be happy with him, too.
The more I watch him, the more I like him. Do you think he’ll be big enough to play center in the NBA? I can’t tell if he’s closer to 6’9 or 6’11.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 11, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
sick passing skills
I’d love it if we picked him up.
and a hoya hero...
Wwe almost had a chance to draft Hibbert (he went to the Pacers one pick before we got JaVale) so Monore is our next shot…
I'm not worried about the height
He is big for his size. Broad shoulders. Great for boxing out. Plus with his athleticism. He is probably a 4 – but think dominant 4 like Garnett.
I agree
I don’t think Monroe will be a star, but he will likely be a starter for ten years in the league. Because of his passing skills and IQ, he is the type of player who iwill fit easily with other players. A good pick for a rebuilding team — any team actually.
I think it all depends on where we draft
If we are in the top 5 then I think we need to focus on Wall (obviously), Cousins, Turner, Johnson. I’m not a huge fan of Favors I don’t know if he’ll be tough enough for the 4 in the NBA.
If we pick more at the end of the lottery than i’m fine going after Monroe, because i think he will be a good but not great player. Reminds me a little of Haywood actually, and I think the 5 will be his best position.
by Steve Shoup on Feb 11, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Cousins is a way better prospect than Monroe
Dude’s got the highest PER in college hoops in the last eight years. I know he has some character issues, but he’s an absolute monster right now and you can’t pass that up.
Monroe’s a good prospect too, but he’s no Cousins.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I think you have to pass on Cousins
He is a fantastic player, but that only complicates the problems with his character in my opinion. Obviously, a person can grow and become more stable, but if he doesn’t, he could make a mess of your team. Think what it would have been like if Rasheed Wallace had been a franchise player. Rasheed has obviously had a great career, but he has always been a secondary player on his teams. What if he was THE guy on his team, and the other players looked to him for leadership and direction? U-G-L-Y. Now, I guess you could fit stabilizing players around him to stem the damage, but didn’t we just go through something like that??
Now, if Cousins drops to 8 or 9 because of his character, then you might have to reconsider and roll the dice.
I think we also need to decide what kind of team we'll be
Cousins would be good if we become a half-court, defense-oriented team, since those teams always need post scorers. Monroe seems more suited for an up-tempo team or one that runs a motion offense.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 11, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
PER
Only measures offense. Plus, it doesn’t hurt he is playing with Wall. Cousins seems more one-dimensional and while I have no doubt he will be good, I see more projectability in Monroe. Different Body, more sleek but also big in frame. I think he can add pounds without losing his athleticism. I also prefer his style of play and the league he plays in. I think he will be a more dynamic player in the NBA – Cousins may be more dominant. Monroe is also more versatile.
For what it counts, I value passing and argue (anecdotally) that a team compromised of all good passers generate much easier scoring chances then a team compromised of a few really good passers. I believe passing has a exponential effect as opposed to a linear one.
But pretty much everyone agrees with you. And you are probably right, I just see the game, the body frame, and the versatility and see a kid who can be a great player at the NBA level.
I think Cousins is better in every way to Monroe
I’ve only seen Cousins maybe 4 or 5 times, but he is easily a superior player to Monroe (and I like Monroe). Cousins is a very good ball handler and has much better shooting range than Monroe. While I get there are questions about Cousins attitude and work ethic at least that explains why some games he disappears. What is Monroe’s excuse for disappearing in games?
Monroe is an 8-16 talent while Cousins is top 5. Sure his attitude is a worry, but the Wizards can help that by getting rid of selfish players and build a team attitude like we see in San Antonio and Utah. I hope in addition to the big name players we dump Nick Young and Blatche.
I'd say Cousins is top three and Monroe is late lottery
Here’s a question to everyone: would you rather have Cousins or Derrick Favors? To me, it’s an easy decision – Cousins all the way.
I think I’d take Cousins third at this point, only behind Wall and Turner.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Agree completely
though I might put Cousins ahead of Turner, given position scarcity. Favors worries me about being a 4 at the next level. Where Cousins I think could be a Garnett/Bosh but even better if viewed as a true 5.
Favors is overrated IMO
Every time I watch Favors I think he’s an excellent top 5 pick in 2012 but a horrible one this year. He just doesn’t do enough for me, and I think he needs some more muscle and development time. Maybe he’s good on an established team, but he’s not a piece you rebuild around.
You guys have become like Grunfeld
You scout guys from the neck down.
I’d put Cousins around 7th.
Who's higher?
(I’ll get a draft thread going soon, but for now we’ll have it here).
Obviously Wall and Turner. Then, there’s Favors, Monroe, Wesley Johnson. Aldrich, I guess. In all seriousness, who’s higher?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Would that qualify
as the earliest ever serious draft thread?
by MR on Feb 11, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
That's a good list, plus Davis
I don’t doubt that Cousins is one of the best two or three talents in the draft. My point is that if you are rebuilding, and you are going to have a lot of young players on the team, if your best young player is a real problem child, that can have a detrimental impact on the development of the other players. So I downgrade Cousins on that basis.
That's fair
Which is why I’d take Turner over Cousins. I’d rather have the sure thing guard than the young big man that’s dominating like no other, but has some maturity issues. It’s a lot like taking O.J. Mayo over Michael Beasley.
My argument is that the talent disparity between Cousins and, say Monroe or Aldrich is so great that it dwarfs the maturity issues.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I look at things a bit differently
For the Centers:
Who could come in and immediately start? Aldrich.
Who has the best body for a Center in the NBA? Aldrich, Monroe and Cousins (pretty much a tie)
Who has the better IQ? Aldrich and Monroe
Defensive Fundamentals? Aldrich
Shot blocking? Aldrich (by a long shot)
Help defense? Aldrich
Motor? Aldrich (always plays hard)
Aldrich is a beast on the boards… He plays great one-on-one defense… he’s a good help side defender… he blocks shots…. He holds his position in the post…. he’s efficient… he makes Free Throws (71%, but better last year with a bigger sample size)…
The knocks against Aldrich are the mechanics on his jump shot….. limited range on his jumper… limited upside…
Like disgrunted said: when do we stop drafting guys without paying attention to what’s above their neck….?
The knock against Favors is that he disappears from games… doesn’t always show total effort….
The knock against Monroe is that he plays soft…. sometimes his activity lapses…. he makes mental mistakes….
Cousins doesn’t play defense…. doesn’t play with effort 100% of the time… not especially bright in the Basketball IQ department…
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Seems a bit unbalanced to me
Caron Butler AND Brendan Haywood for Harrington? I can maybe understand one or the other but not both. Really dont want to trade Haywood and why doesnt he get more touches?
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