Wizards come up short down the stretch, lose to Rockets
by Mike Prada on Dec 27, 2010 11:05 PM EST
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PrintThere seems to be a pecking order issue down the stretch. Honestly, I'd rather see Nick Young shooting many of the shots Andray Blatche did. There was only one really well-executed play in the final few minutes, and it was Young slipping off Wall for an open jumper. Otherwise, they lost their poise.
We know what Blatche is at this point, so why are we trying to isolate him on Chuck Hayes over and over again? That play isn't a very efficient one. If you really feel like Blatche is your best offensive weapon, then find another way to get him the ball. Have him screen for a guard first, and if he's open on the roll or pop, give it to him. That's a much more efficient play.
Also, I think JaVale McGee deserved more minutes down the stretch, maybe in Dray's place.
Still, keep this in mind: Houston is playing very well and we were right with them. I know we're all tired of moral victories, but I think these guys are getting close to getting over the top. The first step is being competitive, and they have been. The next step is building on that. Sometimes, it takes time.
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My bad
Really, it was my fault. I was asking for trouble, expecting the Wizards to get a win on the road halfway through the season like every other team in the league. I should have known as the Wizards held onto a healthy lead halfway through the fourth quarter that the other team would suddenly hit every shot they took and the Wizards would go to laying bricks around the basket. A rational person would have expected yet another collapse instead of believing that our players would be able to play basketball down the stretch. So, I’m sorry, Wizards. I know I let you down tonight.
From the District of Columbia, home of the hyperbolic paraboloid transitional floating zone defense.
Ok so this rant is a bit ridiculous
Sometimes this team gets to me. It really was a good effort until the collapse, and we played a lot of great defense.
From the District of Columbia, home of the hyperbolic paraboloid transitional floating zone defense.
I may just be extremely mad right now
But, I’m tired of hearing excuses for this team. Every season its something and I think the problem is the culture thats been developed
Shouldn't you be a lot happier than a few weeks ago?
a lot of people said the Wizards couldn’t compete without Arenas.
Thats what I'm getting at.
Why should we be happy with competing with this roster? Most of the guys on this team are not going to be here in a few years. We have a legitament shot at getting another 1 pick this year and we are happy we are close to winning games so we can be stuck in mediocracy? ( ironically the last win of the season last year got us the pick). I know it sucks having a rebuilding team but why are we doing such stupid moves? I understand bringing in Kirk a savvy vet to teach wall the tricks of the league. But why take in YI when you just drafted 2 power forwards? ( who I have yet to form an opinion on) and a center that belongs in the dleague. Why did we resign jhoward when we didnt know how he would perform this year? So many things keep getting done and we just keep lowering our expectations. Hell are 2 starting big men just got in a fight and we are not even phased. How is that helping build for the future?
/end rant
And why does a rebuilding team play 30 and 31 year old PFs
to the exclusion of their newly drafted ones. If we are going to rebuild, lets apportion minutes like we are actually rebuilding. Nothing worse than playing vets who won’t be here in a few years and still losing. If we are going to lose as a rebuilding team, lets lose at the hands of the young developing players
by Emmet O'Neal on Dec 27, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
In words of Herm Edwards, "You play to win the game"
and the 30 year old (or more) players we have (Lewis and Howard), all have played on winning teams and were valuable pieces toward those winning teams, and they’re still serviceable. I can see Kirk or Josh still playing on this team years from now (not both) if we do make long term process toward being a perennial contender.
We can’t play everyone who is young every night and let the older players sit on the bench. Not only will they probably lose, but with some young players, what if they get flustered easily after losses and then get worse instead of better?
You can't have ALL the players on your roster be young or fillers.
Vets that can play are necessary to teach the younger guys.ONE vet isn’t gonna do it.
Personally, i would NOT rather watch 6 young guys and 6 lester hudson’s.
You know, there's a thread to be phased about the fight
It’s a few scrolls down.
It’s just not worth ranting about every single one of this team’s problems after every loss. This place would get really damn repetitive and boring. Just because you’re not punching things after every loss doesn’t mean you’re contributing to a “culture of losing.”
If anything, the culture of losing is being eradicated anyway. They’re competing, whereas they were getting blown out a few games back. You have to learn how to compete before you learn how to win.
by Mike Prada on Dec 27, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I see your point
But doing stuff like not playing your draft picks in a lost season and having players who get playing time just because they’re vets doesnt mean your competing
Should've had that one...but the Wizards have been playing really well since Arenas left
Thoughts:
- nic to see Blatche is playing hard on BOTH ends of the court…
-Kirk always has a nice box score…but i really dont like seeing him take shots down the stretch. Especially those long 2’s he loves.
-I agree…let Nick has some of the iso’s. if he can get the shot off, he can make it. he’s the type of guy you dont expect to miss every single time he shoots.
Blatche had the lowest +/- of any Wizard tonight, -17
by Emmet O'Neal on Dec 27, 2010 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair he was third in minutes, so its to be expected in a loss.
All of the starters except for McGee had negative +/- , both Young and Hinrich had a -14
by Alpha_Snail on Dec 27, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
and 3 other wiz
that got significant time got -14? and? overrated stat…its more of an indicator with the lineup than individual play…
by Meraj Chowdhury on Dec 27, 2010 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
I'm arguing that Blatche did not have a strong game
not that he had the worst game on the team. How often does a player have the worst +/- in an otherwise good performance?
by Emmet O'Neal on Dec 27, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
plenty of times
if the team wins, not so much if the team loses. I am more happy about his 14 rebounds as an indicator of effort. I saw him rotating on D and play luis scola tough at times. that -17 was an indicator mainly of the 4th quarter rather than the entire game…
by Meraj Chowdhury on Dec 27, 2010 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
Not strong, but decent
He worked hard, which is the thing most of us want to see from him consistently. He took a few bad shots (as usual) and had some turnovers, but overall it was better than I expected after getting booed at home and then losing it in a club.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
I thought Blatche's game was decent as well
He played good defense, and was doing a much better job of passing back when nothing was happening (at least for the first three quarters). I think he was exhausted in the end, and he seems to make poorer decisions when he’s tired.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Dec 28, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Our 3 non-Wall draft picks logged 2:06 combined tonight
How does that happen on a rebuilding team?
Couldn’t agree more with MadDog21, the bar keeps getting lowered and lowered and lowered, some day soon we will be applauding the Wizards for making it to the team bus ontime.
dude...
…its a rebuilding team chalked full of youth. If you want to watch wins, watch Miami play. If you want to see a team playing hard on D (thank god finally) and fun at times but maddening on offense, then this is your team.
by Meraj Chowdhury on Dec 27, 2010 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
After the February Purge of Jamison, Deshawn, Haywood, and Butler, the Wizards went 8-23 (.258). Our assets to improve on that record going into the summer were 15 million in capspace, the 1st, 30th, and 35th picks in the draft. With those assets, we turned an 8-23 team into a 7-22 (.241) team. The Wizards are the only team I care about and that’s why I want to see them do better than they have with the resources they had available, as we all should.
by Emmet O'Neal on Dec 27, 2010 11:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and yet we are happy we are competing in games.
Most teams would be pissed they lost by 7 to a rockets team without Yao
And we used all of those assets
Its not like we strategically reserved our capspace, we burned through all of it.
by Emmet O'Neal on Dec 27, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
its not like we will poof and become better...
last years team is different from this years team. We got new pieces to run the show, i.e. Wall and Heinrich. We can all agree they are an upgrade over last year…except for a lot of the year, Flip is tinkering with a 2 pg/3G set that just doesn’t work. Also, how many lineup changes have we had? 14th different lineup now…You expect victories when we have 14 different lineups? This year is a year we experiment to see what we have. Earlier this year, we were getting blown out by every team. Now we have 3 away games that we are very competitive. Esp this and the Spurs game.
Also, Flip uses his point guards heavily. Don’t you think there will be a learning curve in the offense…esp with 2 new Gs?? Just saying it doesn’t make sense to expect more than you see. I am happy to see the improvement in all areas of the game. Consistent energy and attaining basketball knowledge is all I ask out of this team…the former is easier to see than the latter unfortunately
by Meraj Chowdhury on Dec 28, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
Okay, now this is getting annoying
The Rockets are one of the league’s hottest teams right now, and have now won eight straight home games. This was the second game of a back-to-back. Considering all that, I was happy with the effort. They lost because of a lack of talent and cohesion down the stretch, which was complained about in this thread.
None of this necessarily means that the points Emmet raises are wrong, but when one thing is wrong, it doesn’t mean everything else is wrong.
by Mike Prada on Dec 27, 2010 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Im sorry if I am annoying you
But These are the things I’m talking about. We can’t keep making excuses when we lose. Im gald we won 8 straight at home, but I am even madder that we are the only team in the league without a road win. Back to backs can be tough for older teams. But we have one of the youngest teams in the league so it shouldnt be that much of a problem. I can however, see how it can be emotionally draining and I do respect your opinions and points
You're free to be upset all you want
But the second you complain about how people aren’t complaining enough, you’re not being constructive, and you need to stop.
I'll dial it back
I’m not pessimistic about this team. I believe in Ted and Wall and that the ship will be righted by season’s end and that in five or six seasons we will be in the ECF or further. Its no secret that I have no confidence in Grunfeld and in some of the pt allotments but I should not inject that into each game forum esp. if it comes across in a Chicken Little-esque light.
by Emmet O'Neal on Dec 28, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
Again, it's cool to be negative
I’m just saying, while you’re negative, don’t demand that everyone else be negative. Explain your POV and respect others.
(Not pointing out anyone in particular, just being very clear about this).
"It's cool to be negative"
Sounding like Billy Madison, haha
by Emmet O'Neal on Dec 28, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
This seems like as good a place as any to say...
The team is definitely playing harder and better since the trade. The team has climbed up from terrible to borderline average — unfortunately it is happening during a tough stretch of games, so we’re not seeing the wins yet. We will. The Rockets are a tough bunch…they stepped it up at the end and hit a few threes and the Wizards blinked.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
I'm probably biased
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
You could probably just post your sig
And say it all, steadyhand
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Dec 28, 2010 2:09 AM EST up reply actions
I wonder if Blatche
Received all of the minutes and touches because of the Wizards recent inclination to want to move him.
Just seems weird that he would get that much PT after the incident.
They could have been showcasing him. Just sayin’…
true
but with our offense when are we not showcasing Andray Blatche?
by Alpha_Snail on Dec 27, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
But now it looks like the organization has stopped drinking the Blatche kool aid and could be actually looking into possible deals. (If there are deals to be had)
by Michael Dabbs on Dec 27, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
Just seemed unusual
That he received so much playing time
On a separate note it becomes a futile effort as he cannot command a double team which means
1. A ill conceived jump shot after continous dribbles through the legs
2. A pass that occurs out of rhythm or as the clock runs down
3. A drive that is actually finished every now and then
The day when he either sets a screen for another big man (followed by a flash to the high post) or actually kicks the ball out early and actually reposts will be a day of days indeed.
Also, bear with us through all of the posts, right now its just theraputic
by Michael Dabbs on Dec 27, 2010 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
the thing is, he did both of those things last year.
which makes me think something is up with the offense.
by Alpha_Snail on Dec 27, 2010 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
Could be
But the ball just sticks too easily when he recieves it (early and often)
by Michael Dabbs on Dec 28, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
True. Hopefully flip is beginning to notice that.
by Alpha_Snail on Dec 28, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Flip NEVER notices that.
His love affair with Blatche is sickening to watch. Andray’s a world-class ball-stopper now. Why McGee didn’t play down the stretch, as Prada pointed out, is mind-boggling. No interior defense, no shot-blocking, and less rebounding with Blatche at center instead of McGee.
What happened to the spin move?
That has been his most effective move this year and he’s completely stopped doing it.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
You showcase a guy by giving him shots down the strech? I've never seen that before.
It’s one thing to have him in there, but they were calling plays for him.
Flip must hate McGee
I feel like he legitimately dislikes him.
side note: JaVale never plays the 4th quarter…
by DCeee on Dec 27, 2010 11:35 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Mcgee has regressed since starting on strong in the season
When Mcgee was boxing out and cutting down on the stupid stuff flip was playing him almost 40 mins a game. Remember his near 2o 2o game? But he has regressed and Flip is just responding to his actions
I really have a hard time figuring out how valuable McGee is
I see him get out-positioned and manhandled easily by a not very good Jordan Hill and I think he’s useless, but he definitely affects the way teams think about shooting inside against us. All in all I think most nights he’s still doing more bad than good, but it wouldn’t take much to put him over the top.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
by steadyhand on Dec 28, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Was easy to see his value last night.
The moment Flip pulled him in the 4th, rockets blew our doors off. 10pt lead vanishes, game lost. So Rashard Lewis could get 43mins without taking Dray’s PT? Crap like that irks me the worst, when I suspect PT and such isnt being determined by who could win us the game
Flip's substitution patterns are inconsistent.
All game we do well bringing in substitutions to keep guys fresh. Then, in the fourth quarter, no more subs. It’s pathetic. Our guys were dog tired. Why do you think we miss free throws in the fourth. No legs left. Bottom line is that Flip doesn’t have faith in our bench to hold down the fort for a couple minutes to give our main guys a rest for the stretch run. We won’t be successful until we change this pattern.
Apologize for calling people " Wall Apologists " on the other thread
But he is a professional basketball player, and he should make his FTs.
I’m a Wall fan, but let’s not put him on a pedestal all of the time.
He was 9-10 at one point
Not sure if he got tired or what. He seems to have lost his confidence a little…been a Wizard too long already, or is it just the injuries?
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
This one is on Wall.
Not sure why he was playing down the stretch, the team was playing much better without him. He tried to do too much and made some very bad plays that essentially lost the game IMO. I’d usually applaud the learning experience, but I think the team needs a road win more than teachable moments at this point.
agreed - if we had mcgee back in for wall
starting lineup at end – we likely would have won
I agree with that lineup as it was said
And maybe McGee would have been better served in Blatche’s place. He would have allowed some of the Wiz players to stay and home and not collapse into the paint giving up wide open treys.
It would have also default the offense pecking order
Was Kirk in at the end?
He has been running the offense like a maestro since GA left.
He had been especially good at getting NY the ball in the right spots at the right time.
Wall doesn’t look for Nick as much, or it doesn’t seem like he does.
KH was in playing the 2
Wall forced the action. He’s got a lot to learn. Having Hinrich around as an example looks like a very good thing IMO.
by MR on Dec 28, 2010 7:26 AM EST up reply actions
Zero assists for KH last night, mainly because he forced the action.
Not saying that’s a bad thing, he scored well, but i don’t see where it teaches Wall to do something differently.
you make it sound like
every game or time hinrich plays should be a lesson for wall. I dont think kirk is supposed to be teaching wall to play basketball, mainly since walls style of basketball is going to be something kirk can never mimick (wall is a special athlete, kirk is average at best). Kirk would be teaching more of the professional behaviors of an nba player, the defensive sides, knowing the offenses, the small vet tricks that you can get away with, the dirty ones that will be used against you…help him with his jumper…stuff like that….im fairly certain wall knows how to play basketball…in fact as a guy whos been following hinrich since his rookie year…id say rose and wall have taught hinrich a few tricks on how to attack the rim.
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
Well guess we'll just disagree.
I think Wall has a world to learn about basketball, especially NBA basketball. Can’t think of many players better suited to teach/show it to him than a wiley vet and coaches son who plays smart.
Frankly, while I’m very excited about Wall’s potential in so many ways, he looks like a mess out there to me right now…granted he’s coming off injuries etc.
by MR on Dec 28, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
i think thats more because of the speed of the game is different
i think its knowing how to play, but just adapting his game to the speed. Its like when jordan retired the first time and came back. He looked like a mess but theres no way you could say jordan didnt know how to play the game after leading a team to a 3peat. He just needed to once again get used to the game, get used to the idea that he was playing on a court with guys just as big and as fast as he was. Thats where wall is for the first time in his life, high school and college he was the most athletic….now if he has an edge in athleticism, its not that far apart from some of these other guys hes playing against…..i dont think its a problem hinrich, who has been an average nba athlete his entire career, can really help him with either
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
i really think this team is about over the hump
i think they will be winning many games at the end of the year.
grunfeld almost has his team together.
JaVale has definitely regressed
since early this season, but in this game tonight he was making a difference on the defensive side of the ball as well as on the boards.
Seems like Flip doesn’t know when to keep our players in or pull them at the right times. I’m starting to notice a steady stream of “oh my god what are you doing flip” moments per game.
Not that it’s his fault for the teams play this season.
by DCeee on Dec 27, 2010 11:50 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Can we atleast all agree
That Flip is not the right coach for this team?
no i think flip just had to get players who would run his system
he almost has them. i would put $ that the wiz play .500 ball the last 20 games of the season
Not at all
Flip is a good coach for this team. I’m definitely seeing progress from several players, and the team overall. We just have to be patient.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
Flip's not who I'd hire if we had no coach, but I certainly wouldn't fire him. I think he's doing a very good job.
by MR on Dec 28, 2010 7:27 AM EST up reply actions
Despite having essentially a different lineup available every few nights due to injury
He’s got most guys playing really well, most of the team playing with energy, and several of the young guys ahead of schedule in their early development.
They are ahead of my Arenas-less pace for wins (I predicted 18) and not far behind my wins prediction pace (30).
The team comes out and competes with energy almost every night. And they play very well at home, although horribly on the road.
by MR on Dec 28, 2010 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
Concur
Any Coach that can get his players to play hard on defense every night is OK in my book.
Flip may have a strange way of benching McGee – but he did the same thing to Nick Young last year… and I look at how Nick has progressed, and I see a pattern. We saw flashes from Nick last year – and stretches where he looked like a legitimate NBA player… Now we’re seeing the same things from McGee this year.
Wall is getting the playing time and coaching he needs. Once he’s back healthy and into the flow – the offense should be better.
As for Seraphin and Booker – I’m satisfied with their progress as well.
Earlier this year, we were asked to give our predictions for the Wizards record. I put down 29-53….. My thinking at the time was that there would be a long adjustment period – How would Wall and Arenas play together? When and how effective Howard would be when he returned? Was the Blatche at the end of last year the real deal? How quickly would the other players that the Wizards drafted progress?
My thinking back then was that with that many obstacles and questions, they wouldn’t be very good at the beginning of the year…. but that they should gradually get better throughout the year. I expected them to lose a LOT in January. with a pretty tough schedule – but then March and April are filled with winnable games… and I think by then, given the progression we’ve seen so far, they’ll be playing pretty good basketball.
He's "delightfully cranky"
by Rook6980 on Dec 28, 2010 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
At the moment
the team is competing really well and even leading against some pretty tough teams, some of the best in the league. That’s the first step.
We play poorly in the 4th quarter and fall apart in the final few minutes. That is the next hurdle. When we can play well in the crunch, when we can complete games we will have taken the next step. I’m satisfied (although not thrilled) with the progress.
Who's ahead of schedule?
Booker should be a regular contributor, but he doesn’t get regular minutes.
It took Yi getting hurt for him to finally start playing Seraphin. And why does he continue to play Yi when he clearly has shown that he doesn’t contribute what this team needs which is a strong big man who can play solid D off the bench?
This team does not come out and compete with energy every night. They’ve only done it for the past two weeks. They looked lethargic on a few nights in the beginning of the year (i.e. Kings game, first Bobcats game, Cleveland game). If anything they seem to play with more energy when Josh Howard is playing. I don’t think that is a coincidence.
Even despite the injuries, he hasn’t played players that have played well enough and he has played some players too much (i.e. Hinrich and Blatche). I know, I know, we’ve had injuries so Hinrich had to play a lot more, well there have been times where this team has had Wall, Arenas and him and he still getting played a lot (@Tor-34 min, vs Phi 2nd game – 35 min, vs Por -36 min). That’s what is confusing. Why continue to play him so much? He has had an okay year, but he isn’t a game changer like Wall or Arenas are so why burn Hinrich out. And as far as Blatche, he has given him way too much lee-way this year.
Blatche’s defense, for the most part has been worse than McGee’s and he is taking awful shots on offense, so what is the incentive of playing so much when you have young players who have been more efficient than him. I’m not saying he should have a significant cut to his playing time, but why is he being treated as if he’s a star when he has accomplished nothing yet. He deserves the hook just like Flip gives McGee and Young.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 28, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Here's a stat for all of you who are upset about Blatche's playing time
In our 7 wins, Blatche has averaged 38 minutes per game.
In our 22 losses, Blatche has averaged 26 minutes per game (0-5 when he doesn’t play and 34 min when he does).
That seems to support Flip’s desire to have him in there a lot.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
That doesn't really tell the whole story
Because this team could be winning in spite of Dray. Can we honestly point to one game this year and say we wouldn’t have won it without Dray? As many good things he has done, he has also done some poor things to counteract. When your starting PF and #1 option on offense is shooting 43%, has a nearly 3/2 TO to assist ratio, and your team is 7-22, how can you justify his play and say he is helping your team?
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 28, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Faulty logic here
When your starting PF and #1 option on offense is shooting 43%, has a nearly 3/2 TO to assist ratio, and your team is 7-22, how can you justify his play and say he is helping your team?
By pointing out that nobody else on the team can play his position better than him. For all the legitimate criticism about his defensive effort, he actually defends his man pretty well and at least knows where he’s supposed to be (I’m looking at you McGee). He’s also our best inside scorer, and does a pretty good job on the defensive boards — he doesn’t gather a ton of them himself, but the team rebounds better with him in there. As much as we see him screwing up, he’s still better than the next best alternative. Therefore, he’s helping.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
by steadyhand on Dec 28, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess we have different expectations
I don’t expect rookie big men to be regular contributors in the first half of their first season. Really not till their second season or beyond. Especially mid to late round picks.
I think Blatche has been a big disappointment this year, but we’ve seen that he can be a real factor and Flip’s trying to get that out of him.
I understand
but expectation and reality is two different things. The reality is Booker can contribute, but Flip won’t let him. There is no way you can argue that Yi is a better player for this team than Booker.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 28, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
A guy like Booker I'd like to see brought along slowly.
He still seems pretty lost out there to me, although he shows good potential and some smarts.
Yi is usually in the right place and makes the right decision but just can’t do what he should be doing. His failure to finish at the rim is frustrating.
Yi at times looks lost on defense. Not as much as maybe Booker at times, but enough to cause problems on defense. He also is useless when his shot is not falling. At least Booker compliments the shooters on the team because he doesn’t need to shoot to be effective. I think we just have to disagree about Booker because I believe he looks just as prepared as Wall does. So if Wall can make mistakes then why not Booker?
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 28, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Ha ha
well I think Wall looks totally lost too.
Hey, look I’m one of the founding members of the Booker fan club. Look back at the threads from the beginning of the season. I was defending him right and left. But I don’t mind him learning more by watching than doing at this point. You have every right to disagree and I don’t think either of us are “right” or “wrong”, it’s just different approaches. I do think that most NBA GMs and coaches would lean to my side. Few rookie big men get big minutes early in their rookie year.
I agree
He doesn’t seem to have a good grasp as to how he wants to handle this team. Part of the problem with this team is the inconsistency that he is playing certain players. It’s as if he doesn’t know who he wants to play. I understand this team has young players, but this is a rebuilding year, let them learn and keep them out there. The only way McGee is going to become effective is if he’s out there when it matters and he learns from his mistakes. We’ve clearly seen that sitting him at the end of games is not going to help so why keep this up. Injuries are no longer an excuse. Get a rotation and STICK TO IT!!! He keeps plugging people in one game and then trying something new the next. You don’t build chemistry that way. I still don’t know who the top 8 or 9 players are on this team!
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 28, 2010 8:16 AM EST up reply actions
I think he’s been tinkering to see what’s working. Since he hasn’t hit on that formula yet I don’t blame him for trying different things. I think aside from JVM and AB things have been fairly consistent. It’s hard to blame the coach for those two players’ inconsistencies.
by MR on Dec 28, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
3 guard lineup consistently sucks
and Flip consistently goes with it anyway.
You don't win games by changing lineups
In order to get consistent play, you have to allow players to gel. If you continue to change up, they won’t build chemistry. Even the Dream Team had to build chemistry. How do you expect to do that if players don’t know if they are going to start or even play from game to game?
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 28, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Injury aside I think the lineups have been pretty consistent. Of course we've had a ton of injuries.
Chuck out the ‘message’ game in Sacto.
?????????????????
We’ve had the most starting line-ups in NBA history to this point, how is that consistent??
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 28, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Not always
Thornton just got benched and he’s not hurt.
He has brought Wall off the bench a number of times even after being healthy. If he is concerned about his minutes he could still play him less. Starting him is not going to change the number of minutes he plays.
He also started playing Arenas off the bench in the beginning of the year after Wall and he were healthy. Flip stated that Arenas thought it would be good, but Arenas stated in the first interview after he got traded to Orlando that he didn’t understand why he was coming off the bench and thought that it was a sign that they were trying to trade him. That just makes things even more confusing!
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 28, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
I think Wall has gotten the start every time he’s been healthy (after a couple of games to shake off the rust).
I agree Flip was tinkering with the guard lineups early in the year. After that Arenas and Wall both were in and out with injuries. So it’s hard to blame Flip for that.
The SF position has been a carousel, again because our only really good one was injured.
Both Blatche and McGee have been consistent starters when healthy and not being knuckleheads.
I expect more tinkering since we’ve gotten Lewis.
I guess you see inconsistency and I see trying to find the right mix.
Blatche Iso=One of Our Worst Plays.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
Yes
I feel like we need someone who’s a hard ass that’s going to fire up the young guys.
aka…not flip
by DCeee on Dec 27, 2010 11:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I loved it when everyone thought flip was the right couch over Avery Johnson
They said Johnson was too hard and the team wouldnt respond. The culture of the team was too different for him
Avery's Nets are doing pretty terribly right now too
I really don’t think that would make much of a difference.
i think i am one of the few who really likes almost all of the moves
grunfeld has made since last years trades began
Same here...I can't help it.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
i still think we could have gotten a better pick in last years draft
but thats because i think Paul George would have been a great fit.
by Alpha_Snail on Dec 28, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Question for DCeee
how do you feel about how Flip has handled McGee?
by MR on Dec 28, 2010 7:28 AM EST up reply actions
I wanted Avery SO bad...
I feel he’d be great with John and JaVale, personally
by DCeee on Dec 27, 2010 11:57 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I'd kill to get stan van gundy here though
…just sayin
by DCeee on Dec 28, 2010 12:00 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I gotta hand it to you mike
I’m tired from writing a few paragraphs. You have to make whole articles each day.
Like SVG's approach with Arenas
Gilbert Arenas found a handwritten note on his chair in the locker room Thursday night from Orlando Magic coach Stan Van Gundy that read, “Go out there and play your game. Just push the ball.” He did. And, finally, so did the Magic. Arenas had 14 points and nine assists off the bench
Gil’s struggling but I think that is exactly what he needs
by Emmet O'Neal on Dec 28, 2010 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
It be way cooler if SVG put a bunch of plays in a box
and the note read “choose one.”
by Alpha_Snail on Dec 28, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
Personally
I would put a chef’s hat and apron in Gil’s locker and tell him its time to fire up the grill
by Emmet O'Neal on Dec 28, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
My personal opinion
We have somehow got to get our young players to master the PICK AND ROLL. It is a staple of every decent NBA offense. How is it that we can’t use it effectively when it’s such a potent weapon? Is it really that hard to teach our bigs how to set screens and our guards how to use them? We’d be getting a lot more good shots if PnR was incorporated into the offense and Flip taught our guys how to use it.
Because the Wizard bigs don't know how to set a decent pick
With the exception of Booker and Seraphin (and both get called for illegal screens frequently) – none of the Wizard big men hold their ground long enough. They are too interested in quickly rolling to the basket to get a dunk…… instead of holding their ground and putting a body on the opponent guard.
He's "delightfully cranky"
And you think a coach cant change that in all this time?
It’s not like any of our PGs actually get them the ball when they do roll anyway, so personally I dont believe they are unaware of how to set picks. IMO, flip is fine with the way they set picks….P&R is just not a big part of Flip’s offense
Very good point.
In fact, the bigs — mostly meaning JaVale — never get passed the ball, even when they have position.
That is my biggest gripe with the big men on the team
We’ve mentioned it a hundred times, the pick and roll, most basic play in basketball, and we can’t seem to execute it. The big men don’t read the play, they just give a weak pick and make their way to the basket, expecting that alley-oop every time. McGee is one of the worst at setting a screen I have ever seen. It’s like he doesn’t just want to be out there laying wood, he would rather be flying above the rim. Irritating, especially when the guards are supposed to be one of our strengths.
I said this once...and I completely agree.
We are one of the few teams that doesn’t run PnR…I would love to see Flip force the guys to run it
But like everyone above me said, our bigs cant set picks for shit.
The worst part is that they dont even try. They roll so damn quickly…
yeah...
the only wizards bigs in recent memory that i remember could set a decent screen were haywood and songaila.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 28, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Wall is lost on court and lost us the game
He was out of control and could not finish or pass – he ignored Nick Young and was bailed by the Refs on more than one occasion. Flip was slow to get Heinrich back in the game and it was lost. If winning is important he should have been on the bench.
second game back..
..just seems to be rust right now…he will be back to making plays soon enough…
by Meraj Chowdhury on Dec 28, 2010 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
Wall v Rose Rookie years
November:
Wall 17.1 ppg 9.8 apg 3.8 rpg 3.1 spg 4.1 to
Rose 18.9 ppg 6.1 apg 4.1 rpg 0.0 spg 2.6 to
December:
Wall: 12.6 ppg 7.4 apg 4.0 rpg 1.0 spg 3.0 to
Rose: 16.1 ppg 7.4 apg 3.1 rpg 0.9 spg 2.8 to
Rose played 30 games in his first two months, Wall will have played 18 assuming he plays both the remaining December games. All things considered, I would say he is stacking up well against Rose.
by Emmet O'Neal on Dec 28, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
and his numbers
would be better if it weren’t for his injuries…
by Meraj Chowdhury on Dec 28, 2010 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
or worse??
bigger sample size…..
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
Having more shooters would help with the assists
Driving and kicking to Ben Gordon, Hinrich, or Deng or hitting Tyrus Thomas or Noah in the paint is probably more successful than kicking out to Thornton, Blatche, or hitting a cutting Hilton Armstrong.
Follow me on twitter -
http://twitter.com/TheRealTPruitt
by pantslessyoda1 on Dec 28, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
I think Wall will have more impact as a player than Rose
by hambonejackson on Dec 28, 2010 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, because his team is worse than Rose's was in his rookie year.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
No
because Wall can do more then Rose. He is better then Rose.
by hambonejackson on Dec 28, 2010 4:12 AM EST up reply actions
Ummm...are we talking about now Rose or rookie Rose??
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
Talent
Who has more talent? Wall or Rose? Not experience. Just talent. I believe its Wall.
by hambonejackson on Dec 28, 2010 4:21 AM EST up reply actions
Right now Rose, he is doing everything right now, have you seen his game against us?!?
Wall definitely has more potential but Rose is the better player right now.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
I watched the game
I was someone who believed Rose should have been the top pick of the draft. I watched Rose play for Memphis. I watched Wall play for Kentucky.
Rose is exactly what I expected him to be. Wall is more than I expected him to be. Rose can put up 25. 15 assists and 6 or 7 rebounds. Wall will put up 40 and 15 and he he put up 10 boards already this year. He is only just beginning, but I didn’t know he could shoot. He misses now, but he can shoot and with his length and quickness this guy has unbelievable talent. Rose still can’t shoot. Neither can Rondo and CP3 has a reasonable shot. Deron Williams is a good shooter, but Wall shoots like a gun. Of those point guards he just reminds me of Nate Archibald. A point guard that can put up 40. He is going to be that kind of guard. He is going to surprise people .
by hambonejackson on Dec 28, 2010 4:35 AM EST up reply actions
u have no idea
who or what drose is…..
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
Yeah, I don't think he is aware of the type of monster Rose is.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
You think John Wall is going to be the type of PG that will put up 40??
Honestly he will only probably do it about seven times in his career; he was and is more of a “purer” PG than Rose who likes to get his team involved.
It’s going to be extremely difficult to get 40 and 15 in one night.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
Chris Paul is a very good shooter.
Him and D-Will are a cut above…The Hornets are seriously a very bad team…Paul is the only reason they win games.
In short
He just hasn’t been in enough games yet
by hambonejackson on Dec 28, 2010 4:45 AM EST up reply actions
Good lord. Why can't someone criticize Wall without having to see Derrick Rose's career numbers?
by MR on Dec 28, 2010 7:33 AM EST up reply actions
everyones bent on saying they are similar players
the more i watch them, the more different they seem….
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
I think
he’s putting too much pressure on himself. He’s forcing the action instead of letting the game come to him. He’s still learning, but his growth is going to help others play better too.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 28, 2010 8:21 AM EST up reply actions
Good to finally have a true veteran presence in the frontcourt this year with Lewis
He’s more of a finesse big but has been there and seen some things
And he was on the same team as DHoward so that should carry some weight with the young bigs
If I’m McGee, I’m already asking Lewis about Howard’s workout regimen
wow eric gordon
meanwhile…if lebron had gone to the clippers.
they may have won the west…jinxes aside
Our Roster has gone through a lot of changes lately
Josh Howard just got back from injury. We traded Gil and got back Rashard. John Wall was out for a while and now hes back.
Its going to take some time for this team to mesh and really trust each other. Those two things are what helps you in close games. It was clear down the stretch nobody really knew what they wanted to do.
Once this team plays a couple weeks straight with the lineup that we have right now, we will start to win more of these close games.
Look at Miami earlier in the year, or Orlando right now. Even with all the talent they have, it took or is taking them a while to mesh as a team.
We shouldnt expect any less with our Wizards.
Exactly
Grunfeld dumped the entire starting team over a weekend and there really was no one ready to replace them except Blatche. The 6th man now the go to guy overnight. I’m amazed how quickly he transitioned this team from where they were to where they are now. This is a completely different team and they are going to change again after the season is over. I don’t think Grunfeld is going to settle with one first round pick. i wouldn’t be surprised if he swings another 2 1st rounders at some point.
by hambonejackson on Dec 28, 2010 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
I expect us to get a pick before the deadline honestly...but it all kind of depends on the status of the Wizards at that point.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
for what?
Which asset do the Wizards have that could possibly bring a 1st round pick?
They don’t have any cap room to play with – so they can’t take on a salary (ie: like the Kirk Hinrich deal)…. They will have $46 Million on the books, assuming they allow Yi Jinlian, Josh Howard, Al Thornton, Nick Young, Cartier Martin, Hilton Armstrong, Lester Hudson and Hamady N’diaye to all walk…
They don’t have any players under contract that would warrant trading a first round pick….
Any players they DO have that other teams might want are all free agents (Young, Howard).
I don’t see how they could get any more picks at all……
He's "delightfully cranky"
Is it wise to trade into this draft?
We definitely have several guys that could net at least a mid-1st (Blatche, McGee, Young, Booker, Seraphin), and those late 1st round picks come fairly cheap. However, I wonder about the strength of this draft with the lockout coming. If I’m an underclassman prospect I’d probably stay in school unless I was a top 5 pick. This might be an exceptionally weak draft.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
Not at the SF position...which is what this team needs along with a motor.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
The prospects may be there
But will they go pro when they suspect that at least some of next season will be locked out? They won’t get paid until the lockout is over, and they just lose that money, so if you’re a decent prospect and you don’t have a top 5 spot locked down, wouldn’t you just stay in college for one more year so you can get coaching and play and develop? Especially if you’re relatively broke — at least in college you get room and board (and probably more than that). If the rhetoric between owners and players continues, I’d bet at least a third of the underclassmen who would have gone in the 1st round will not declare.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
Flip was the issue
Flip blew it. He stuck with an offensive heavy line up that was absolutely ineffective. Wall and Hinrich don’t play well together. Wall the offense runs smoother more ball movement he doesn’t smother it like Hinrich does the Wall, Howard, Lewis, Mcgee Blatche line up was most effective.
Mcgee kept the Rockets out of the paint he was playing very good defense intimidating guys in the paint.
Flip will bloew it alot now that he has Lewis and Howard he doesn;t quite get how to manage defense to offense.
He doesn;t seem sure what kinda team he wants us to be at this point.
He needs to start Wall from here on out and make Hinrich the sub and never play Blatche at 5.
I don't think Wall is ready to play heavy minutes yet being that he may feel some more soreness.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
by Krobify on Dec 28, 2010 6:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Lewis is actually getting active with the rebounds.
And John Wall DID mess up…but I guess you have to learn from mistakes being that he has missed like 17 games.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
Yeah, though I can't tell if Lewis is active in getting them, or if he's just been fortunate to be in the right places at the right times
But it’s nice to see the Wizards not getting blown out in the rebounds department.
I personally
didn’t care for how Hinrich played tonight. It’s good that he was aggressive, but he was dribbling too much. He should look to shoot when it’s there, but he needs to play off of Blatche/Lewis a bit more. I believe Hinrich and Wall just aren’t getting people as good of looks as they are capable of. The game becomes so much easier when you have a point guard that is looking to set others up. I felt Hinrich was just looking to shoot all game. Remember as good as Hinrich is playing in some people minds, this team has only gotten to 100 points once since Dec. 7th. If they could play better offensively, they would probably win these games because their defense is keeping them in those games.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 28, 2010 8:30 AM EST reply actions
I think Hinrich is playing great.
On both ends of the ball.
At this point he is clearly head and shoulders better than Wall. Our offense actually looks like an offense when he’s in there.
I’m not that impressed with how KH and Wall play together. At the moment Wall is a pretty one dimensional player, so if anyone else is directing the offense Wall doesn’t have much to offer. I do think Hinrich (like Arenas before him) is doing too much ball handling when playing beside Wall and that isn’t helping Wall’s effectiveness.
by MR on Dec 28, 2010 8:43 AM EST up reply actions
Zero assists for Kirk though
And the offense really wasn’t good over the course of the game – only one point per possession (100 offensive efficiency), a 41.8% eFG%, etc. Kirk was very, very good on defense, a game-changer even because of the job he did on Kevin Martin, but the offense really wasn’t anything special when he was in there because he overdribbles and looks for his own shot way too often. I really don’t see what you’re seeing at all. He’s very good at creating an open 16-footer for himself, but otherwise, his playmaking skills don’t really exist.
Wall had 13 points on seven shots with six assists in 27 minutes – he was an issue down the stretch, but Blatche was the real issue, not him. Plus, playing with Kirk, like you said, wasn’t always ideal.
Yeah, that stat surprised me.
The offense looks much smoother with better movement with KH in the game IMO.
I dont see it either.
Kirk’s numbers surprise me every game. I don’t know what it is, but to me for some reason all of his BAD play stand out…
It's pathetic how much Flip relies on KH
Same pattern every game, Kirk starts off gangbusters and looks like he’s headed towards a 30pt night…by the 4thQ he is run down, can’t get his shot off, lapses defensively, and plays sloppy, miss FTs etc. Hinrich is usually non-existent in the 4thQ and it’s 100% do to fatigue, and 100% avoidable if Flip would just play Cartier a few minutes here or there. Kirk does NOT need to play SG alongside Wall, they don’t play well together.
None of our PGs this season have made other players better.
The degree to which they ignore Javale is criminal!
Hinrich does really do the alley oop that much
I’ve noticed that he rarely looks to throw McGee the ball after a screen so it is hard to say how productive McGee really could be.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 28, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't either
When JVM tries to make an offensive move that is more than 2 feet from the rim it is extremely ugly and often a disaster. He has no moves—have you ever seen him do the same thing twice? He has no outside shot. He can’t go to the basket without turning the ball over and/or committing an offensive foul. He’s a great finisher right at the rim, but everything else he needs major work on.
I agree
that McGee has no offensive moves, but those alleys are a gimme for him. Wall is effective at finding McGee, but Hinrich doesn’t throw the alleys, that’s not his game. I can accept that, but that speaks more to the chemistry those players have than to McGee lack of offense. If Wall can find him easy baskets then Hinrich has to too if McGee is going to be effective out there.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 28, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
He has at times
but he has also given him point blank passes under the rim. Hinrich just doesn’t look for the big men very often especially not last night. I just think it is a chemistry issue. He clearly doesn’t have a comfort level with McGee.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 28, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Nor should you.
After all, McGee’s only shooting 54% from the field — that’s the best of any Wizard, by a country mile. Why should they look for a guy like that?
Your sarcasm is misplaced
He shoots a high percentage because most of what he gets are putbacks etc. I’m all for him getting offensive rebounds and putbacks and alley oops. Give him the ball anywhere else and he’s not so effective, in fact he’s embarrassing.
But if he's close to the basket...
And gets the ball, he can dunk it or otherwise put it in — that shooting percentage isn’t all dunks. But he never gets it passed to him.
I'm all for getting the ball to JVM where he is in a position to dunk.
by MR on Dec 28, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Of our recent PGs, I think that
Gil, Kirk, Foye, and Earl are all score first players who either miss or ignore cutting players and get most of their assists by hitting wide open guys.
Livingston had more of a natural PGs vision, he really played well with AB, got him the ball as he cut and it was effective.
Remains to be seen with Wall. Right now he appears clueless in the halfcourt sets, but he’s played so little and so sporadically it’s too early to judge
Advantage of height
Livingston is 6’-7". Gil, Kirk, Foye, and Wall are around 6’-3". Earl is Earl. Shaun’s extra length lets him make passes that just aren’t possible for shorter players.
Here’s a thought. Would pick and roll with Dray and JaVale work? If Dray has the skills to be effective isolating from outside, maybe he’s skilled enough to run pick and roll, too.
Nah, he's not good enough with the dribble
I say the less dribbling Dray does, the better, which is why I prefer quick hitters with him.
as a long time fan of hinrich ill mention this
hinrich doesnt do the “risky” in basketball much. He doesnt throw alleyoops in traffic much, he tries to avoid making passes that cause a play to break, he wont throw a pass to a guy who seems like he might be covered or will ultimately have nowhere to go.
Its why he over dribbles, he isnt looking for his shot, his flaw is that he doesnt look for his shot enough, hes looking for the right play. Its why coaches love him, and its probably why some fans hate him.
Playing alongside rose, remember hinrich is being moved towards the sg, which is bad for him. He can play the position from a defensive and skillset standpoint, but he truly lacks the mentality. When he tries to go into a shooter mode, it looks forced…its not his game. Its why the best hinrich performances will come when he is playing pg,
One of the worst moments kirk will have with john wall is when he will run a play correctly, become the first option for a shot, get the ball, but because of slight cover he wont pull the trigger…instead he will then turn into the point and what looks like selfish overdribbling will actually be him trying to make or run a play from there. Unlike a john wall or derrick rose, hinrich isnt good at making plays from the middle of the paint, he instead gives orders from the perimeter waits for guys to screen each other and get open, or set him a screen, and then makes a move.
Hinrich for all his skills, sometimes just lacks imagination on the basketball court. This isnt a bad or good thing, its just who he is. As a pg he is a bit more confident, since if the first option or two arent there or are risky, he makes up his mind that its time for him to attack, and does so with a lot more confidence, you will notice this on jumpers.
If hinrich isnt feeding your big men on screens, its probably because he doesnt feel comfortable with it, id figure that most coaches would tell their players to be weary of javale mcgee on screens, having his big men bully him out rolling, and blatche doesnt seem like a fan of screen and rolls (more screen and fades i think)
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
Mcgee cuts to the basket after picks
often with his hand up, looking for the ball and not much D between him and the rim. None of our PGs attempt that pass, the very one that gets Blake Griffin so many dunks. Personally I dont think they even see him cutting, are already looking to do something else…Flip’s offense is a guard oriented, jump shooting affair. Always has been.
I don't quite agree.
They don’t run it because of their personnel.
McGee can’t set a pick. What coach would run pick and rolls for him? We certainly know its in the playbook, they ran it in preseason. But if you can’t set a pick, then its easy to defend the roll afterwards. The guard doesn’t get separated from his man, so the big doesn’t have to step out. Therefore Wall has no passing lane and McGee has no lane to the basket. Bottom line, if they run it, it works maybe once a game (when they catch the D sleeping) until McGee learns how to set a pick.
Sad part is that Blatche’s pick is only slightly better.
I think that a better idea would be to have Blatche and McGee work at playing of of one another. Have Blatche looking for a cutting McGee when he’s iso’d on the baseline. Especially when McGee’s defender is looking for a weakside block.
If Flip was only interested in winning the game, he wouldn't give Wall so many minutes late in the game
It’s a trade-off: give Wall the experience he needs, or pursue wins that, to be quite honest, are meaningless at this point in the season and at this point in the team’s development. The team is not built to win now.
Wall is our best player
Rookie, rust, whatever, if you want to win, he’s playing. You take the bad with the good in his case because there’s so much good.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
John's got the most talent, the most potential, and I'd take him in a pick-up game
I don’t think he’s the best NBA player on the team right now at all, especially his half court game. You play him because you want to win in the future.
(In other words, I agree with satchmore on this one.)
derrick rose or john wall
where doth your allegiance truly lie?
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
This is a long term rebuild. Rebuilding the right way around Wall. Since the trade, they are competitive, which will eventually translate into wins. The mix of veterans and young guys is a positive and Flip is playing them about right in my opinion. The ultimate goal is to help Wall understand what the league is about and to win a championship. The vets on this team, as I see it are helping him understand what is necessary to win in the NBA. As for the other young guys, this about who will ultimately be there when we are ready to compete, who will work with our centerpiece (Wall). We are not going to win a bunch of games this year, but i do think it necessary for Wall to be in a bunch of competitive games to help his basketball maturity/growth. The Rockets game is a prime example of what this is really about, close game on the road against a hot team.
On another note
those of us getting the Houston feed got a great chance to see a really classy guy in Elvin Hayes. He sat with the broadcast crew and they did a long segment with him. Very enjoyable. He even got Drexler to stop yelling for a few minutes.
He’s gotta be one of the most under-rated players in NBA history.
Elvin seems to have mellowed with age
When he was great, he was pretty damned surly.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Dec 28, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
I was too young at the time to really appreciate him
but here are some things I learned last nigh (and this morning)t:
Rookie year – led NBA in scoring (28.4), second in rebounding (17.1). That’s the 5th best rookie scoring avg of all time.
Second season – led NBA in rebounding, second (third?) in scoring
He’s 7th all time on the NBA scoring list (21 ppg), 4th in rebounds (career avg 12.5 is higher than Moses, Kareem, Shaq, Akeem, ), 20th in blocks (1.98 per game) even though those stats weren’t kept during his first five years.
Missed 9 games in 16 years.
12 time all star.
He was also the last Bullet/Wizard who would almost certainly score when he had to
His turn-around post up move was money. If they single-covered him, it was a basket.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Dec 28, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
I would have enjoyed it more
if it didn’t go on while I was trying to watch the game
by hambonejackson on Dec 28, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Wall consistently looks off NIck
and tries to do to much. its almost like if its not a fast break I dont really want the ball in wall’s hands. He makes a lot of mistakes running half court offense. I dont want to like kirk but he runs the offense way better in the halfcourt than John (IMO)
He does
But I’m also not surprised he does. We forget that at Kentucky, they ran a really simple post-oriented offense in the halfcourt, so Wall didn’t really have the ball in his hands in college as much as Flip Saunders wants him to in the pros. They ran constantly, which is how Wall did a lot of the things he’s been doing.
I think it’s only a matter of time though. He needs to develop a jumper and he needs time to pick up the speed of the NBA game. Right now, he’s not coming off picks aggressively because he’s not really sure what he’s going to do. Once he gets enough pick and roll reps, he’ll recognize the different ways NBA teams defend that and pick up the right play to counter with when they do.
I think his injury may factor into it a lot as well
When he was healthy he was attacking.
As far as the pick and roll, sure he’s learning on the fly, but its difficult to be aggressive and use a pick properly when nobody can set a good pick for you. If the picks were better, then the passing and driving lanes would be too. When he was healthy he was fast enough to make it an effective play anyway.
Of course he’s raw, but one thing he certainly hasn’t learned yet is how to continue to be effective when nursing injuries. He doesn’t have a veteran’s grab-bag of tricks so he’s got to rely on his athleticism. That doesn’t work so well when he’s banged up.
I am with Mike... now that we have the pieces we are going to have...
we should legitimately expect a few Ws when the chemistry clicks (i.e. when Wall figures out how to floor manage this group).
It is sad to say, but Lewis does more for this team, such as it is, than Gil was doing.
I've definitely been pleasantly surprised with Lewis.
He’s shown a lot more versatility than he was showing in Orlando, and I think he’s a great player to bring off the bench to anchor the second unit.
From the District of Columbia, home of the hyperbolic paraboloid transitional floating zone defense.
Orlando limited his role from what i understand
He’s just showing some remnants of his game in Seattle.
I wholeheartedly agree
I think GIl is a tremendous talent but his play the beginning of this season was horrible and it hurt the wiz, along with flip using three pg’s together (dubest thing I’ve ever seen) Rashard didnt play that well in SAN AN and still managed 21 and 12…..I think he may be a great fit.
OK maybe not great
I think I went a little to far but I do think playing him at the small forward may actually give us a match up that forces defenses to react to instead of us reacting to everyone else’s lineup’s
I see why Bulls dumped Hinrich
Hinrich’s presence is stunting Wall the same way it was stunting Rose. Hinrich is a ball holding /dribbling pg he stifles ball movement and fast breaking. He’s just in love with dribbling. He and Wall should rarely play together they don;t work because Hinrich wants to dribble while Wall pushes the ball throws it ahead and lets others set the play some times he plays a better pg than Hinrich does. The Ball moves more.
Hinrich presence does nothing for this team but allow Flip to have a crutch to lean on when he gets mad at the mistakes Wall makes.
Hinrich should be moved and benched as a back up.
Yeesh. Couldn't disagree more.
I disagreed with every word in that post. Including “is”.
by MR on Dec 28, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Hinrich is the only reason this team is competitive right now
(Aside from NY on a good night.) And how can you say that he’s messing Wall up, when Wall’s been out so long and shows so much rust? And that’s to say nothing of Wall’s troubles adjusting to the NBA game. That “drive-to-the-hoop-as-fast-as-you-can-and-pray-that-they-foul-you” stuff only goes so far in this league. Once Wall learns to hit mid-range jumpers consistently, his game will flourish, and the team with it. But he’s not there yet.
They dumped Hinrichs' contract
because they were going after James. After they didn’t get James the Bulls had enough money leftover to sign Hinrich, a player Chicago sports commentators then claimed the Bulls could have used.
hes coming back to chicago
the dude still lives here in the summer…bulls have the full mle waiting for kirk next offseason
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
I was thing the WZ could trade him back to the Bulls
for their #1 pick
ha
cant be traded back to the team till july i think..and then you gotta make salaries match, which at the moment at the moment the bulls cant…
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
Maybe a 3 team trade can be worked out
Hinrich to another team then traded to the Bulls can get around that problem.
by hambonejackson on Dec 28, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
really want him out that bad huh
unfortunately no that doesnt work, no matter where you trade him, he is not allowed back in chicago till i believe july
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
I like Hinrich
but I wonder if the WZ will want his contract next season. Young needs to be signed and Hinrich offers an attractive trade piece for a draft pick. Maybe not the Bulls although a team trading 2 #1s for Veermenko is either hilarious or GM suicide.
by hambonejackson on Dec 28, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
unless you trade him for an expiring this year
or a team with tons of capspace…that money is going to always be there….trading him might lessen or increase the blow, but not completely erase that caphold
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
You are right
But Howard and Thorton are gone at the end of this season anyway. I am not hinging Youngs signing to trading Hinrich, but it could clear up some cap space and get them a draft pick and maybe some young player. i guess i think Hinrich is a goner anyway, so get whatever you can for him.
by hambonejackson on Dec 28, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Thoughts from the opposition.
First, it’s no fun to be way down record-wise. Right now, though Washington’s main guy is a very young rookie PG. Some nights he’ll be brilliant, some he won’t. As he grows as a player he’ll stop having off nights regularly.
The other promising players are also young and unpolished. They were good enough to get a decent lead last night. Holding a lead is a different matter. That will come in time. If you strip down a team to rebuild something great, like your owner claims to be attempting, then there will be nights like this, maybe a lot of them.
I think the symbolic gesture of sending Arenas on his way is great for this young team. Arenas was never going to be part of the next great Bullets, I mean Wizards, team. Rashard Lewis, despite his contract, can be a very useful player.
The Rockets blew something like 10 leads in their losses to start the year. Seriously, that many. They something clicked and they started holding on (and the schedule got easier, too). Washington looks better to me since the Arenas trade, and I think the team will have a very good second half.
The future version of the Wizards has only played 30 games together – that’s why you need to give it time.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Thank you
I am afraid some may be missing out on the big picture a little bit.
One problem is, our schedule has been really tough. Another, this is a new team with Josh Howard returning, the addition of Rashard Lewis, and the return of John Wall. All things that have a major effect on a roster, and things that take some time to click with one another.
And to your final point, one could argue the future version of the Wizards has not played more than a few games together. I would argue that this is not the future version of the Wiz at all. The future of this team has yet even to be drafted.
I am going to keep cheering Gil, like it is 2005. Lets see some of that swag return, because that is why we loved you to begin with.
And do us a favor Gilbert, beat Lebron in the postseason... and RUB IT IN!
by returnofswagger on Dec 28, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
You're probably right.
But I’d say that the current team is probably good enough to make the playoffs in a year or so, without the addition of the SG the team needs.
The owner appears to “get it” and has a good track record. It takes a while to bring a franchise out of the dumps – in Houston the only light is the Rockets, so I know how it feels.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Yeah we have a solid team when healthy
But I am doubting Howard is here long-term and hoping Blatche can bring something. Whether it be his talents or a prospect’s. Wish we weren’t stuck with Lewis but we know how that contract goes. Retirement or until it expires. I hope that we truly do rebuild through the draft as promised, and do it successfully. We’ll see how that goes I guess.
I am going to keep cheering Gil, like it is 2005. Lets see some of that swag return, because that is why we loved you to begin with.
And do us a favor Gilbert, beat Lebron in the postseason... and RUB IT IN!
by returnofswagger on Dec 28, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Correction
By solid team, I mean in a year, this team will definitely be a playoff team. Wall and McGee will be better and assuming Nick Young is around, is game should be getting more rounded and he will be more comfy with a scorer’s role. We won’t be playing .500 ball for the rest of this year, is my guess.
I am going to keep cheering Gil, like it is 2005. Lets see some of that swag return, because that is why we loved you to begin with.
And do us a favor Gilbert, beat Lebron in the postseason... and RUB IT IN!
by returnofswagger on Dec 28, 2010 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
I honestly do not understand some of the negative outcry after this game.
For those who actually watched, we were maybe two bad decisions and some FT’s away from being in this right at the end. Those few mistakes turned into a couple of 3 pointers that really put the fork in our guys tonight. We were totally in this game until the last minute, and even then. A month ago, all people were begging for was some effort, a little bit of competitiveness, and some signs of competence from this team.
The last two weeks we have remained competitive against Miami, Houston, Chicago, and even the Spurs. And then we went and got Larry Brown fired with that performance against Charlotte.
I’m sorry but can we please be a little more realistic here?! Criticizing John Wall right now is nothing more than showing your impatience. He has been hurt. He is on a really crappy team right now. He is a rookie PG. And his teammates really don’t even complement him all that well. Not to mention, this is the third lineup he has had to adjust to with major differences. First it was his team, then he had to adjust to Gil, now there is Shart and Howard to adjust with. That is a lot of adjusting for any PG. C’mon guys.
Call me an apologist if you will but I am more apprehensive than anybdy about Wall. Trust me. But at this point in the season, it is absolutely no time to be questioning his abilities. All of these factors against him are something that he should not be expected to overcome by anyone as quickly as we are demanding.
When Wall was performing like he was early on, there was an optimism from everyone about this team. So either people were blinded by Wall’s outstanding-ness, or you are now blinded by his injuries and now slow recovery to get back where he was a month ago. Be patient, we can not know how Wall is going to perform until, well, until he actually does it. In the few games that this brand new Wiz team actually has had the opportunity to play together, I don’t find much to complain about, for the team as a whole.
I am going to keep cheering Gil, like it is 2005. Lets see some of that swag return, because that is why we loved you to begin with.
And do us a favor Gilbert, beat Lebron in the postseason... and RUB IT IN!
by returnofswagger on Dec 28, 2010 3:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Someone said above, I don't remember who,
You can’t dwell on every deficiency of every player after every loss. Because people get sick and tired of reading about it. Maybe I am crossing the line of the idea that people can say whatever they like, but it defeats the purpose of being a fan of this team, and even this site, if all you can be is critical and then shoot the optimists down as apologists with too much patience.
I am going to keep cheering Gil, like it is 2005. Lets see some of that swag return, because that is why we loved you to begin with.
And do us a favor Gilbert, beat Lebron in the postseason... and RUB IT IN!
by returnofswagger on Dec 28, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
The last wiz ring was 1978
So patience and skepticism go hand in hand if you are a fan.
by hambonejackson on Dec 28, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
My point is stop expecting a ring from this team at the moment.
All you can expect is hustle and desire. Leonsis has said that he is rebuilding this team and he is doing it his way. He said it will be SLOW and PAINFUL. He is not pretending that we should be winning. Is it possible to have a product on the court that could make the playoffs right now? Hell yeah it is. Wall and pieces for Carmelo, anybody? But that is not what the Wiz are shooting for, like it or not.
I want us to win too. And I am also completely skeptical of a few of our guys and our GM. But this is a new thing that literally just started when Gil got shipped out. Give it a chance. Maybe Ernie and Andray are running out of chances, but give the rebuilding thing a chance.
I am going to keep cheering Gil, like it is 2005. Lets see some of that swag return, because that is why we loved you to begin with.
And do us a favor Gilbert, beat Lebron in the postseason... and RUB IT IN!
by returnofswagger on Dec 28, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
I know the team is rebuilding
and when they are and winning I will be back from LA
by hambonejackson on Dec 28, 2010 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Rec'd
I watched this game today and was really surprised to see all the negativity around here.
It seems like the same old stories show up after every loss. This was a good game until we broke down in the 4th.
This team should not worry about W-L. It should be making sure they play hard, play defense, have fun and ultimately hope for a win. That obviously did not happen but they did play the right way.
Good to see AB and JVM stepping up tonight, after their mistake. Thats whats it all about.
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 29, 2010 7:50 AM EST up reply actions
Where are our two first draft pick Big Men
The New Bruise Brothers Trevor McGee and Kevin Seraphin are missing.
Where are they?
Trevor McGee would probably be a really good player.
Size, athleticism, and toughness. Any way to fuse the two?
I really like the way Rashard Lewis has played so far.
Obviously still a bad contract, but it shows that maybe his skills haven’t eroded nearly as much as the downward trend in his numbers suggest. Sometimes that happens with really good teams when you’re a secondary player. Hopefully he starts shooting a higher percentage, but he’s rebounding well, playing good d, and knows how to do little things on offense (set screens, ball fake, knows when to pass, sees cutters well, etc).
The first 3 weeks of the January schedule is fairly soft, it’d be nice if this team could find a way to win some games against lesser competition.
I completely agree
Rashard Lewis has played well in the past couple games, I am pleased to say. He sets a good example on the court for the rest of the team with his game and this team really needs a presence like that on the court. I noticed our play, especially on offense was lacking and indecisive on many occasions without him in – he keeps the ball moving on offense with picks and passing work that all the young Wiz players need to learn how to do.
I think the Wiz can definitely have a good chance of winning the majority of their upcoming games – we have games against Indiana twice (.448), New Orleans (.581), Philadelphia (.387), New Jersey (.290), Charlotte (.345), Sacramento (.179), Minnesota (.250), Toronto (.333), Utah (.677), and Milwaukee (.414) in the next 11 games. I feel like we have a good chance of winning at least a few of those. Because however pessimistic you are, we have definitely improved recently.
by Nolan Walter on Dec 28, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i have to say
me too.
I did not like the trade at the time. Don’t like it now, but he played well so far
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 29, 2010 7:44 AM EST up reply actions
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