Report: Orlando Magic Discussing Trade For Gilbert Arenas
Evan Dunlap is the webmaster of SB Nation's Orlando Magic blog Orlando Pinstriped Post. He has credentials to cover the Magic and he is as much of an insider as anyone else covering that team. So this report of his is absolutely legit.
Dunlap qutoes a source who says that the Magic and Wizards are discussing a trade to send Gilbert Arenas to Orlando ... and that's not all.
The Orlando Magic have engaged the Washington Wizards in an ongoing trade dialog centered around Wizards shooting guard Gilbert Arenas, Orlando Pinstriped Post has learned. What Orlando would send Washington in return for the three-time All-Star is less clear, but the proposed deal likely includes shooting guard Vince Carter, according to a source. Wizards big man Andray Blatche, Magic forward Rashard Lewis, and Magic center Daniel Orton could also be involved. Both teams have a mutual understanding of what the trade might include, the source says, and it's unclear what factor (or factors) are holding up the trade. What is clear around the league, however, is that Magic President of Basketball Operations Otis Smith has his eye on Arenas. If Orlando is to make a major trade this season, Arenas will likely be the target.
I need to gather my thoughts on this one, but my first one is this: I really don't want Rashard Lewis. I realize we're frustrated with the way Andray Blatche is playing, but Lewis is a jump-shooting "power" forward that doesn't rebound, is declining and makes over twice as much money as Blatche for one year less. That part of the swap just isn't worth doing for a rebuilding team.
The rest ... I don't know yet. Thoughts?
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I dont wanna loose AB...
I would like them to give up thorton instead or howard or something. I dont like Lewis either.. Maybe pietrus or gortat?O and some picks.
Anyway, if we have a chance to trade Gilbert, we should take it i guess
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
No Way
I’d give up Andray for Lewis…Also, isn’t their a rule stipulating that if a player just signed or extended his contract, he can’t be traded for six months?
by Meraj Chowdhury on Dec 1, 2010 11:08 AM EST reply actions
Still..
No way I’d give Dray up for Lewis…Reminds me of C-Webb for Mitch…and I may argue mitch is tougher then Lewis
by Meraj Chowdhury on Dec 1, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
its not a case of us giving up Dray for Lewis
but rather, a case of Orlando asking us to take Lewis off their hands
by John Park Williams on Dec 1, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Don't want to lose Andray Blatche
He’s young, talented, and despite being frustrating right now he WILL improve. I feel like the Magic are trying to dick us out of a good deal. I’m all for the Gilbert Arenas Move and they better include a first round pick in there.
No Lewis
He makes too much money and doesn’t give us what we need at the four spot. That being said, I don’t really want to see Gil go either. He’s just starting to find his game after being off the court for three years and damnit I want to see him play for the Wizards. If he has to go I guess I don’t mind it being Orlando. At least then we would get to see him on a regular basis and get into the playoffs.
haha
Lewis’s deal is worse than Gil’s. That’s not happening and makes no sense. Even Grunfeld isn’t that dumb, unless he has a mancrush on Lewis like he did with Hinrich.
The Arenas-Carter deal makes a little more sense, but if you are Orlando, do you really want to take the ball out of Nelson’s hands or run Gil full-time at SG?
In a heart beat..
Gil+Dwight> Gil+Jameer
by Meraj Chowdhury on Dec 1, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
I think it would work ok because of Dwight being there
Orlando needs a ball-dominator better than VC on the perimeter, and Dwight can cover up a lot of the defensive issues that backcourt presents.
Lewis
Only has 1 guaranteed year left. The yaer after next is unguaranteed according to shamsports.com
Not exactly
It’s partially guaranteed — $10 million, to be exact. Mouse over his name and that comes up.
I'm sorry
either this is the biggest load of malarkey ever or Grunfield is a certified idiot.
-Getting Lewis negates the purpose to get rid of Arenas.
-This team doesn’t need another soft big.
-Team is better off with Blatche and Arenas short term and future.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 1, 2010 11:26 AM EST reply actions
I strongly doubt Lewis comes here by the way
My guess is Orlando is trying to dump him on the Wizards.
It's good due diligence to try
I suppose. Ernie won’t keep his job long if Lewis winds up back here.
Wall. Ovechkin.
Well you know...
about Ernie’s infatuation with the “one that got away” i.e. Kirk and Hilton on this team right now (maybe Gee too?)
by Meraj Chowdhury on Dec 1, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Speaking of "the One That Got Away"
Larry Hughes is currently a free agent looking for a team to sign with… :)
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
He is too old at this point
He shouldn’t have left the Wiz to begin with. He was finally getting the minutes and living to his potential, then bolted for the dollars. His best years are defintely behind him.
by TheRealBigMike on Dec 1, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
I Know
But I couldn’t resist a little joke about it. I’ll always wonder “what if” he had stayed and built on the chemistry he had with Gil. We might have actually made it out of the 1st round again.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
That make sense
How likely do you think that Gilbert will get traded at this point, regardless of who’s involved?
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 1, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Possible 3rd team is philly
On pinstripe people are discussing a three-team deal including iguadala…
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
HECK NO!!!!
AI is not the player this team needs. He’s not a good enough shooter to play off of Wall. We need a better outside shooter.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 1, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
No, they want to exchange vince + Lewis for gil+iggy
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 1, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
If Lewis ends up with Philly, Carter with the Wiz
We basically got better for 2 reasons: 1 Carter complements Wall better than Arenas. 2 Vince has an expireing contract (i believe)
Arenas would be thrilled to play for a contender i guess and i think a DHoward/Gil combo could be leathal. Not sure why Orlando would wanna keep Nelson around though..
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 1, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt
Carter would ever play here. If he quit on Toronto then there’s no way he’s coming to play for a re-building franchise after he was just on a contender. He would try to get a buy out. I’m almost certain of that.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 1, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
If we traded for him I would tell him not to even fly out. Just sit at home.
We don’t want him on the floor for us. I don’t even care what he wants.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
I would do
Gilbert + someone not named Wall, AB or Javelator for Vince, Orton and a 1rst rnd pick in a haertbeat
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 1, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
What doesnt?
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 1, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
I hate the idea of unloading Gil for nothing
If he’s not valued highly by other teams, I’d rather just keep him. I don’t think any self-respecting Wizards fan can advocate dumping Gil after all he’s done for this team and its fans. He deserves respect. That being said, I’m fine with trading him for valuable assets. It would be better to have a younger, more efficient SG going forward, and I think Gil would be happier on a contending team, although hopefully I’m wrong. Rashard Lewis, Vince Carter, and Daniel Orton won’t cut it. Rashard Lewis is infinitely less valuable than Gil. He’s probably the worst contract in the NBA
Worth noting
Arenas and Wall have shared the court for just 84 out of a possible 768 minutes this season.
yeah - gotta think ernie is going to wait and see how that works
right?
"hindsight is 50-50" - Steve Spurrier
by little stevie colter on Dec 1, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree with Mike for the first time ever
I am sorry guys but for me Gilbert Arenas is not transferable; what is the fun to watch Wall and the others if gilbert is not around ? I don’t care if it’s for Rashard Lewis or anybody … i will probably end up rooting for Dwight Howard’s team ..
Common let’s keep some identity !
by kyleMaroc on Dec 1, 2010 11:57 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
No Lewis. Period!
No AB unless we get Gortat and a first. GA for VC you gotta think about. There is something to be said for being able to walk away clean from the whole contract and have lots of flexibility going forward. This deal will be here in Feb.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 12:00 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Mike, isn’t there an argument that Lewis is an asset, too? It’s not like he sucks.
by Tbonebullets on Dec 1, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Nobody in the NBA sucks.
Lewis isn’t an asset because he has a big long contract and his performance doesn’t match it. Aside from that, his contract is only one year shorter than Gil’s. That would negate the other half of the reason to trade Gil.
The only (glimmer of a) reason Washington brings him in is if they feel like he’s going to be the long term solution at SF. Other than that it makes absolutely not one bit of sense.
Looked up Lewis’s contract on the trade machine — it IS the worst. So yeah, your point about playing him at the 3 spot is the only glimmer of hope; otherwise, we’d be doing that deal just to unload Gil – and trading Blatche with him makes Ernie look pretty bad. The only way to make up for it is to try to squeeze some picks, or young decent assets, out of Orlando in the exchange. Draft picks? Fran Vasquez? I dunno.
by Tbonebullets on Dec 1, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Gil for Lewis would be awful for us. Worst trade idea I've heard in years.
We’d be getting the worst player and worst contract. It wouldn’t happen. No way any GM is that dumb. The only way it could be even concievable is if there was stuff going on with Gil and the FO behind the scenes that would force them to get rid of him. We haven’t had any indication of that however.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Wes Unseld would make that deal every day and twice on Sunday...
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 1, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
The only trade I could halfway understand would be
Gil for Vince straight up. And make Orlando throw in a draft pick or two (which would of course be late 20s in the draft at best). Tell VC not to show up and the Wiz suddenly have all sorts of financial flexibility (especially given the coming CBA uncertainty) starting this offseason.
I’m not too familiar with Orlando’s young prospects, but I’d imagine that as a perennial playoff team, its hard to acquire good young talent.
I'm not wild about Orton as he is really raw and has knee issues
But I’d take him for sure. He backed up Cousins at UK and is a big, solid 7-footer. Nice complement to Javale in theory.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Look, you gotta realize that Gilbert is damaged goods: he’s had three knee surgeries so you never know when it’s going to implode again. So, looking at it from that perspective, in return, you’ve gotta take some pain back. That means a loser like AC, and an overpaid player (like Gil) in Lewis. I think you have to look at it from our side, too: it frees up the team to be Wall’s forever; gives our young guys more playing time. Maybe Nick shapes up at the 2 spot. Maybe we play Lewis at the 3 spot, like he used to, and we plug in some younguns at the 4. The deal becomes better looking if we can unload Vince to another team. Lewis is way overpaid, but he can still fill it up from outside.
by Tbonebullets on Dec 1, 2010 12:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
No way
Then it’s just making a trade for the sake of making a trade.
Also, it’s not like Gil’s knee got Livingston’d. He may never be what he was, but he is still a good spot-up shooter and ball handler as needed. Why would you rather have Lewis?
Wall. Ovechkin.
Yes, it is making a trade for the sake of making a trade, for the good of OUR team. I just think a lot of us don’t realize how effing hard it should be to trade Gil, anytime in the near future. No, I wouldn’t want Lewis, but at least he can play.
by Tbonebullets on Dec 1, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
He can play when he can play. Plus, if you believe, as I do, that Gil is not going to work out at the 2 on our team, then you have to consider it. That’s where the disagreement would lie, I think.
by Tbonebullets on Dec 1, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Wait - what?
So we give them our guy who’s an injury risk and has a borderline personality disorder with a bad contract and we get…a guy who’s playing out of position at the 4, doesn’t defend, and has the worst contract in the NBA. Ok.
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 1, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
That would be a knee jerk reaction
Gilbert is not playing bad, so to suggest he’s damaged goods is ridiculous. Is he the player he used to be? No, but he’s still a very good player. You don’t just trade players like him away just because you have a deal. I’m sure that are better deals that you can get that won’t have you taking a long term contract back. This is a horrible idea. It doesn’t make sense. If you’re going to add that kind of salary back then you might as well keep Gilbert because now you would be talking about finding a SG and also a new PF once Lewis contract is up. That’s going to set this team back and Wall contract would be just about up.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 1, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
rec
I agree with Tbonebullets.
What I find interesting is that when Rashard Lewis signed with the Magic, the thing the Magic were universally criticized for was that they gave Lewis the final year, 2012-2013, for no reason! He was signing there anyway, no one came close to matching their offer. But the Magic, for whatever reason, tacked on the final year. If he were expiring in 2011-2012, then this deal gets done today!
Anyway, although I have loved the way Gil has played this year, I feel like developing JWall and McGee and losing a lot is the only thing that matters this year.
by John Park Williams on Dec 1, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
How exactly do you develop anything...
by burning out your uber-aggressive franchise pick and a still skinny raw as all hell big man while losing a shit ton of games?
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 1, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Tbone
I totally don’t get your line of argument. The only reason we want to unload Gil is because his contract is killing us financially. Why would we want to take back Lewis for Gil? His bloated contract basically does the same thing that Gil’s contract does for our financial situation, and from a basketball standpoint he wouldn’t help us that much either because we’re trying to rebuild with young guys. Plus, having him might not give us the chance to be as bad as we should (unintentional tanking) to get another good draft pick next summer.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Lewis for Gilbert makes no sense at all
We dont need him roster wise and his contract is even worse
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
The interesting thing here is that y’all are more concerned about Lewis than AC. From my perspective, AC is bitter poison and I’d be inclined to kill the deal on that basis.
by Tbonebullets on Dec 1, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Am I stupid?
Who the hell is AC? Should I know this?
by Oldbuckwilder on Dec 1, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
why do people keep saying that Rashard's contract is worth than Arenas?
Arenas’ contract runs for a year longer than Lewis’.
by John Park Williams on Dec 1, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Arenas is atleast twice the player.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I rec'd this so hard...
Besides – VC has an expiring contract, which not worth as much as it once was (since pretty much every team seems to be loading up on expiring deals) allows us to wash our hands at the end of the year, heading into the Draft and FA under the luxury tax and with a clearer picture of how the touches are going to be handed out.
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 1, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Because Gil still has something to add on the court
Lewis is done.
The players involved really don't get me excited
Trading Dray right after we extended him, getting an aging Lewis, and picking up yet another project big man in Orton? Gil for VC relieves the cap burden, sure, but is trading him that important to take back at best a wash in terms of value of assets? I just don’t get it. Even a first-rounder wouldn’t provide enough incentive to flip Dray for Lewis, since we’d just be getting something like the 27th pick….
From the District of Columbia, home of the hyperbolic paraboloid transitional floating zone defense.
by mr. 91 on Dec 1, 2010 12:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I tried to work out a three team trade the other day with pretty much these parts
I couldn’t figure out a way to make it happen. I’m all for a straight Gil/Vince swap (even if Vince never logs a single minute), but I want absolutely no part of Lewis. None.
We have a mutual understanding
People say Carter is no upgrade to Gil.
HELLO??!
He has an expireing!
Lewis’ contract is even worse than Gil’s. Eventhough he can play some, so does Gil and we dont need a jumpshooting PF, at all!
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 1, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
why do you keep saying that Lewis' contract is worse than Gils?
Lewis expires in 2013, Arenas expires in 2014.
by John Park Williams on Dec 1, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Beceause gil is player, Lewis never was that good to begin with
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 1, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
I'd hate to see Arenas go
but it makes sense to swap Gil for Carter straight up if we can.
On the other hand, I would absolutely love to see Gilbert light it up in the play offs next to Howard, blowing past the Heat and the Celtics on the way to beating the Lakers. Acquiring an expiring Vince Carter contract is mega-cheap for so much joy.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Dec 1, 2010 12:34 PM EST reply actions
What's the hurry? We have the leverage.
As I said in the fanshot the other day where The Post discusses Gilbert and Otis, lets actually take something from another team for once! If they want Gilbert badly enough, they should give us what we want. We’re in no hurry for cap space this year, and barring injury Gilbert’s value only increases. I vote NO on this trade in most of the incarnations discussed.
I’m not a trade machine guy. How about Gilbert and Blatche for VC, Gortat and a pick?
It works just fine, actually
And I can definitely live with that deal.
Me too, quick! Call Ernie before we end up with Lewis!
Off topic: WaPo say’s Armstrong is suspended for tonights game
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 1, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Him and Javale would lock down the C position for sure though
If we can resign Javale early as Ernie is wont to do I think it would average out to a respectable amount to have the toughest position in the league to fill a strength for the next 3-4 years.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Gortat, Lewis, Carter and a #1 for Arenas, Blatche and filler
I would at least listen to that…
Should we start e-mailing Ted now????
Please, please, please don’t repeat the mistakes of the past. Don’t trade one bad contract for another, and don’t trade a player with value with one who doesn’t help our team.
lewis' contract expires in 2013, making him a massive expiring contract to trade 2 seasons from now
under a new CBA, when we should have two more lottery picks surrounding JWall and McGee.
I am sorry, but I do this deal. Its not perfect, but I have no problem with the deal.
by John Park Williams on Dec 1, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
That expiring may be as valuable in 2 years as it would be now
God knows what the new CBA is going to look like.
under no scenario I have read would old contracts not factor into trades under the new CBA
so, yes, I think it is a guarantee that a contract signed under the current CBA will be just as valuable in two years as it is now.
If there is a “hard” cap, my understanding is that it won’t go into effect until all contracts signed under the current CBA have expired.
by John Park Williams on Dec 1, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
heck no for VC or Lewis
I’m sorry the thought of watching Wince Carter in a Wizards uniform disgusts me. I can tolerate Gil and his many personality quirks but Wince and his injuries gyrations, small in the clutch play doesn’t sit well with the young talent we have.
and Lewis has the worse contract in the league by far. He’s a bit player who makes max mney.
Blatche could improve he has fitness issues but he tries hard. Lewis and Carter are 2 of the biggest coasters in the league.
not exactly talents I want around my young developing John Wall.
If they got Carter I doubt he would even suit up
It would in essence be like ripping Gil’s contract up and letting him walk in FA. Who cares what VC is like as a player?
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
stop saying that Lewis' contract is worse that Gils.
Rashard Lewis has been the starting power forward on one of the 3 best teams in the NBA the past years. He hit the game winning shot in Game 1 and Game 4 of the NBA Eastern Conference Finals in 2009. And his contract expires in 2013.
Gilbert has not played in three years, and when he has, the Wiz have sucked. His contract expires in 2014.
by John Park Williams on Dec 1, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
1 year less doesn't make up for being 40% of the player Arenas is
How good a player actually plays basketball comes into consideration somewhere JPW.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Again...
Rashard Lewis is balls, he’s got much more NBA mileage than Gilbert, and his contract is, in fact, worse.
His PER was below the league average last year and is currently below league average this year. He’s two years older and has only one fewer year on his near-max deal. He’s worthless to us during the life of his contract.
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 1, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
His scoring, shooting, and rebounds have been dropping steadily for the last 4 years
Plays even less defense than Gil, and was just AWFUL in the playoffs. He’s just a far lesser player than Gilbert right now, with nothing to indicate it will do anything other than get worse.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lewisra02.html
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, what happened to lewis anyway?
he used to be overpaid but decent. now he’s awful. i think it’s the performance enhancers, he’s not as good without them.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Put Lewis on any team other than Orlando or SA and he’s half the player that he is now.
by MR on Dec 1, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't mind this
I love Gilbert, but he’s not part of our long-term plan. Lewis’ contract expires after next season if I’m correct, so it’s not that bad. Plus, he’d give us a shooter and we could probably flip him next year. I hate to see Dray go, but there have been a bunch of posts about why he can’t play well next to Javale, so I think it makes sense for us to let him go, especially considering how many solid power forwards will be in next year’s draft. Orton would be another banger project, I don’t know how we could keep him and Seraphin on the same roster since they’re essentially the same player.
Follow me on twitter -
http://twitter.com/TheRealTPruitt
Lewis has two more years on his deal
His contract is one year shorter than Gil’s. There’s no good reason to trade one horrendous contract attached for another. Especially when the other contract is attached to Lewis…
Oh, my mistake. I wouldn't do it, then, Orton's not special and we shouldn't be looking to build through free agency anyways
Follow me on twitter -
http://twitter.com/TheRealTPruitt
by pantslessyoda1 on Dec 1, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
having cap space does not equal building through FA
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
apparently this is a complex concept
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
If it's Simple, Explain it to Me
The examples used below are moot. You don’t need cap space to sign your own players, that’s what the Bird exception is for. So even if we are over the cap, we can always resign JaVale, resign Wall, resign whomever we want to. We just can’t acquire new free agents. So what’s the point if we’re not going after other free agents?
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
Never Mind
Read’s Rook’s new post below. Still don’t like those options. I would rather use the space to sign good players. OKC and Indiana have still yet to prove that BOYD can produce a championship.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
how 'bout boston
that entire thing started when they dumped antoine walker and started building through the draft. it allowed them to get pieces that they swapped for allen and garnett.
and san antonio is one of the cap smartest teams in the league, they’ve never paid a luxury tax.
the lakers are luxury tax averse too, for that matter. and what’s wrong with having the flexibility to sign a free agent if it’s a good fit? worked pretty well for the lakers when they signed shaq.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
cap space = flexibility
it’s that simple
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
and they're not moot at all
nba teams do not have unlimited budgets.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
You are incorrect sir
lewis contract has 2 more seasons after this one. So its only 1 yr shorter than gil’s. It is THE worst contract in the league and we dont need his skillset
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 1, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
No Sir!
Lewis is a waste of time. He’s just a little bit better version of Jianlian at this point. I don’t even want them to mess with VC. Throwing Blatche in the trade would be seriously foolish to me. Would hate to see Gil go, but only for VC and a first. Then tell VC to take the buy out. I only want to see the Wiz go with young players with upside and keep building for the future. VC and/or Lewis seem like a step back to me.
If the trade is Gil for Vince Carter straight up....
I’d say do it – right now…. If they want to throw in Orton , or a pick, that would just be gravy….
Not only do the Wizards get out from underneath Gil’s massive contract – but Carter’s expiring deal might come in handy at the trade deadline….
If Orlando tries to stick us with Lewis – walk away…. just walk away.
I love Gil – but if there’s any way of getting rid of his contract, WITHOUT taking on another ridiculous contract, the Organization would be better off….
He's "delightfully cranky"
by Rook6980 on Dec 1, 2010 1:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
One sure way of figuring out if this is truly "close to happening"
If we play Toronto tonight, and Gil is held out for some minor injury (tweaked ankle, migraine headache, hangnail , )…..
He's "delightfully cranky"
I think they've been dancing around GA-VC for awhile and it will eventually happen. I'm not sure if this report means they are any closer than they were this summer.
Maybe if we’re lucky Nelson gets a injury that shelves him for a bit and makes them more likely to add a pick or Orton or somebody.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
I strongly doubt it's close
I’m sure the two teams are just talking. Neither side is going to risk something this big right now.
kind of off topic but can Gil play in Toronto anyways?
Is he allowed to enter Canada?
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
The potential pieces involved in this trade
don’t really make a lot of sense for us…especially Lewis. Why would we want to give up Andray for Rashard? The guy’s contract is worse than Gilbert’s. Rashard is the second-highest paid player in the league after Kobe, and he’s still got a lot of years and a lot of money left on the books. Why the hell would we want to take him?
I seriously hope that this is not a done deal
I think most have already agreed that the Rashard Lewis for Blatche portion is unbalanced as Rashard is already past his prime and on the decline where Blatche is just now starting to enter his.
The remainder of the deal I do like, Arenas for Carter. Orton might be an excellent project for us to develop as well. He has the size to be a legit center and just needs to grow up and gain experience…not really sure why he left Kentucky to begin with. Guess he felt left out with everyone else planning to leave at the end of the year.
as much as i dislike blatche and would be happy to move him
i’d rather have him than rashard lewis. lewis has looked awful since he got caught with the ‘roids. i wouldn’t trade gil for lewis straight up.
i also have mixed feelings about dumping gil for an expiring. i would do it though.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 1:23 PM EST reply actions
It will happen one way or another....
Gil is the man, but his contract is a beast! And it is clear the FO wants this team to be Wall’s and having Gil and all the drama that he brings slows this process of starting over fresh. Remember the FO inside source calling Gil a cancer over this past summer.
Now if we bring in VC with his expiring contract (great for trades), Gorat and there is talk of a third team possibly Ig from Philly I’d do it for Gil, Bulletproof, and a roll player (anyone but Wall & McGee would be fine with me). Just don’t bring Lewis here… I’m thinking it’s just Orlando trying to get one over on us and are waiting for us to call their bluff.
I love Gil, but at this point it just seems like he is a big distraction from our team growing. Now my next big concern is that Wall will not be able to break through the rookie wall and be gimpy the whole season with nagging injuries… Remember in Summer League he couldn’t play game 5 against NY because of his knee, and he said that he has always had tendinitis. How will an 82 game season and God blessing us with a run into the playoffs play out on his rookie body. Not to mention Flip playing him minutes you wouldn’t give to a rented mule.
Listen to me know and believe me later, Gil will not be a Wizard by the end of the season. We’ll miss you, and if you do go to Orlando I bet a lot of us will find ourselves with a new second favorite team. Watching Gil happy again playing with Howard will be a lot of fun.
Now lets get our first win on the road. Go Bullets!!!!!
Le Bullet - where being a fan isn't easy, but at least we have lots of cool scars to show for it.
by Le Bullet on Dec 1, 2010 1:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Orlando pretty much has nothing that we need
maybe a few guys like Gortat or something…the only useful assets they can give us is expiring contracts and picks, and relatively useless picks at that.
expiring contracts are gold
Unloading Gil’s contract would free us up to do a lot of things… that’s not nothing
Le Bullet - where being a fan isn't easy, but at least we have lots of cool scars to show for it.
ehhh...I don't think expirings have much value anymore
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
sure they do
as long as there is a salary cap – it’s money you can reallocate elsewhere. you can’t cut guaranteed contracts in the nba
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
chances are
the money teams can reallocate elsewhere gets spent overpaying another player. that’s just the nature of guaranteed contracts. Look at all the cap space the Knicks cleared over the summer. It was supposed to be a blockbuster summer for them and they’re still a mediocre team.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
not if you're smart
knicks are a bad example because they gave up so much to clear space, but they were smart to clear bad contracts because it enables them to rebuild.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
smarter to rebuild thru a draft
than thru free agency. Not saying rebuilding thru free agency doesn’t work, but being smart in the draft pays much more dividends than being smart in free agency. New York cleared all that cap space wanting to blow that money on big-name free agents. Well what happens if those free agents aren’t there anymore? How do you rebuild with all that available money the team feels obligated to spend to keep their fans happy?
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
clearing cap space DOES NOT MEAN rebuilding through free agency
say mcgee and wall and another good pick become first tier all-stars. we have to pay them. we would need cap space to do so. plus it’s smarter to have a smaller pay role while you’re building through the draft because you’re not going to draw as many fans during that time
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Which, again
would make Vince more valuable than Rashard since his contracts ends after this season
three words
Larry Bird Exception
but i agree with your second sentence.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Cap space can make your team better in a variety of ways
It doesn’t mean we are gonna turn around and hand all the money to some free agent next year.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
right
the value of financial flexibility depends on what you plan to do with it
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
right
why are you assuming ted leonsis is going to do something dumb with it?
we might as well just say the wiz shouldn’t do anything ‘cause they’ll screw it up
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Grunfeld
don’t have a great deal of faith in him.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
fair
but leonsis is going to have the final say. look what he’s done with the caps
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
fair point
that remains to be seen. I still think Kirk Hinrich wasn’t the best player for our BOYD strategy this summer, and as much as I like Booker and Seraphin and Hamady N’Diaye, there were better players at every one of those spots. The performance of our front office since Ted took over has still been mediocre. The only great thing that happened was John Wall and that was a no-brainer.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it's early
we got seraphin out of that hinrich deal. he’s got potential
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
we got two years left on Kirk's deal
when a real bright GM would have found a way to wrangle a player with one year left. And from a basketball standpoint, I kinda liked Kirk in preseason but ever since the regular season started he’s been pretty underwhelming. And like i said as much as I like Seraphin, there were better options at 17.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
but admittedly that's all in the past
let’s just see how things develop
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
There's only one more year on Heinrich's contract after this year.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Dec 1, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
exactly
what would’ve been nice is if we had a contract that expired this year.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 2, 2010 2:21 AM EST up reply actions
i guess my position is
cap space (expiring contracts) are good assets in some cases, bad assets in others. It all depends on how it’s used, which means that, given a front office that has not shown a great deal of competence in the past, the likelihood of cap space being “gold” for us is slim. Then again our front office also sucks at drafting…
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
cap space is never a bad asset
It can be used stupidly but having cap space is ALWAYS a positive.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Cap space is good yes
But I’d rather trade with another team that actually has some useful picks or good young talent to give us. Unfortunately i’m guessing not many teams besides orlando are interestedin taking on Gil’s contract.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I'd like alot of stuff
But to think some team is gonna give us good young talent for Gil is kinda ludicrous. If we want young talent the best way would be to use cap space and flnancial flexibility to acquire it.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
that is but one tool available
clearing – and not signing – bad contracts gives you options.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
not if we have to take back Rashard Lewis
but yeah i’ve always felt cap space to be somewhat overrated. Better to have a good scouting department and front office and draft well like the Spurs, Thunder, and Blazers
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
they used to be valuable but that was because of last summer
Now it’s a different climate.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
well who knows what the new CBA brings
that’ll change the whole dynamic potentially
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
and yeah you're right
this past summer was the best free agent crop over and basically none of the teams that cleared cap space benefitted from it besides Miami and Chicago. All we saw this summer was teams signing some ridiculous deals like Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay, etc.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
well, let's take a different example
OKC when they traded ray allen for the 5th pick and let rashard lewis go for nothing. that is essentially clearing cap space for a rebuild. worked out pretty well i’d say.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and hey, they are hesitant to pay jeff green
because they’re smart and well managed and aren’t sure they want to use their cap space (money) on jeff green
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
unfortunately
our front office and scouts suck compared to those examples, so that isn’t very hopeful either.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
but even the spurs and thunder have to pay their guys, and having cap space allows them to do so. that is where ted is trying to get to!
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
OK
Then Vince’s contract gets us that cap space 2 years sooner. I’d rather have that.
of course, i don't disagree
but remember that teams can exceed the cap when re-signing their own free agents. It’s called the Bird exception. I guess i’m really worried that Rashard Lewis is even being considered a piece in this deal. Like, why the hell should the wizards take him?
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think he is really being considered
I’m sure the Magic are pushing him but it doesn’t mean we are considering it. I’m not really worried.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
They probably wouldn't
But it’s in Orlando’s best interests to at least try and get us to take him.
Gortat
Gortat is a banger, he’s big and hungry to make an impact. I would take Vince Carter and Gortat, and in exchange give back Gil and Blatche. Hell, I’d even take Brandon Bass and give em Booker.
how bout this
Gil, Blatche and Booker for Gortat and Vince Carter.
Don't need to throw in Booker
It works without him
he'd be the sweetener
Orlando knows Gortat has value and would be a starting center for many teams. He’s still relatively young and will develop further with more minutes. I don’t know that they would send out a banger like Gortat straight up for a softy like Blatche. Blatche would not be a starter for most elite teams because of his poor defensive effort.
stay away from
Lewis at all costs. He is a mistake that almost cannot be traded until his final contract year
disagree
Gil has a couple really strong games thus far. He has a great long range game that will likely improve as the season goes on. He would spread the floor giving more room for Dwight. Plus he’s a good personality and would be an enthusiastic contributor to the team. His contract, much like Lewis does suck. The problem I see is that if they trade for Gil and are forced to keep Lewis, they will have 2 contracts that are crappy which really mortgages their future too much.
I can the impression that Lewis is a quiet, defeated guy without confidence.
Their future is now
They are pot commited at this point to use some poker parlance.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed...
and I can totally see a situation in which a line-up that includes Gilbert allows Orlando to get past an aging Boston and the cluster fuck that is Miami.
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 1, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
I know Otis Smith is good frineds with Gil
But why don’t the Magic just trade with the 76ers to get Iguodala?
I really just see why they want Gil to be honest—I’m not knocking Gilbert, but I just think that if I was the Magic, I wouldn’t want Gilbert. It just seems that the Magic might already be a championship caliber team, so why risk it with Gilbert?
Gil can shoot
this is why Orlando would want Gil over Iggy.
They need what they, for some reason, thought they were getting in VC
A closer. Gil may not be back to 100% yet, but at least he doesn’t disappear if you start hitting him in the lane.
The one thing that Orlando lacks
is shot creators…. They have a lot of shooters…. but let’s face it, almost none of those guys can create their own shot, much less create one for their teammates…
Gilbert Arenas would bring Orlando what they lacked last year in the Playoffs. When the defense gets down and dirty – and your normal offense bogs down (say, against a powerful defensive team like Boston or Los Angeles) – you need a player that can create a shot. If you don’t, then Dwight Howard gets doubled, and you try to swing the ball to someone open, but the defense reacts quickly – you can’t get a shot…. Jameer Nelson couldn’t get past Rondo last year… Carter disappeared… Dwight was double teamed… and the other guys (Lewis, Barnes, Pietrus, Redick) just didn’t have any space to shoot.
Boston has Paul Pierce… LA has Kobe… Miami has both Wade and LeBron.
Orlando has no one like that….. and that’s why they keep failing in the Playoffs.
If there’s ONE thing Gilbert Arenas can still do, it’s that he can create shots…..
He's "delightfully cranky"
so you're saying
they might want Gil for what they thought VC would be able to do
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure how Gil helps Orlando
from a basketball standpoint. I know Jameer Nelson isn’t a superstar point but he’s still a former All-Star and a pretty decent player.
I don't think much of Nelson
Put Arenas in an offense as efficient and disciplined as Orlandos and I think Gil would shine actually. He’d be the go to scorer they have lacked.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
And I think it might work
Put it this way: Orlando is one of the few teams that I think can get away with starting Arenas on the wing and being a title contender.
you would put Gilbert and Jameer together in the backcourt at the same time?
haven’t really considered that.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
If we give up blatche for lewis there will be major consequences
We’ll be relying solely on javale mcgee for point production in the paint and defense. That’s too much for any team to ask for. Blatche for Gortat would be better.
Geting it done.
Rashard Lewis?
DO. NOT. WANT.
Gil may be overpaid, but he’s not dead weight like Lewis. And if you think our rebounding and shot selection sucks now, try replacing Blatche with Lewis.
The Washington Wizards: providing career scoring nights for unknown opposing bench players since 2004.
STICK TO THE FORMULA
If we want to rebuild then let’s do it for real. The way Oklahoma has done it. If someone wants to buy our aging allstar ( Gil ) so they can go on a title run, then at least let’s make sure it accomplishes our goals, which are: young players with potential, high character and strong willed guys who are willing to bang, and future contract flexibility.
Gil is not a problem for us. He is loved by most Washington fans. He can produce and appears to still have gas in the tank. He could be very useful to Orlando. But there is no reason to rush and take back a crappy Lewis contract.
If a team wants Gil to help them make a title run… make them pay by sacrificing younger players with potential. Orlando has many of them: Anderson, Bass, Gortat, JJ. Future draft picks also! As a side note, I would not take Orton even if offered for free, as I believe he is 100% bust at this point.
by WashtoLA on Dec 1, 2010 1:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Keeping Gil isn't part of the formula though
Gil-VC is the definition of the formula actually. Agree Lewis wouldn’t make sense but I think people are overreacting and there is little to no way he is being considered.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
HELL NO. What happened to explosive backcourt of Wall & Arenas?
I don’t care what the formula is. For me, right now, Vince Carter is not improving our team. If we need to make moves that desperately please get rid of Kirk Hinrich, I dont see any positive effect he has on our team. Gil has had countless games proving he can excel on our team.
by Unxpekted on Dec 1, 2010 2:01 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Mike Prada...is there any way we can put together a petition from us (the fans)
voicing our opinions against this trade…
they'd be taking a risk
healthy Agent O may not make it all the way to the playoffs without breaking down… If I’m the Magic brass I’d be sweating in every game, praying he makes it. IF he stays healthy, that is.
The only way I’d unload Arenas is if we gain contract flexibility, young potential, and picks.
lets hope you are right
I really do want you to be right! Time will tell…
We should have a poll
I think people don’t have a problem trading Arenas, but I think the Rashard Lewis part of it seems like that is a problem.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 1, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't read enough of the posts to see how divded it was
I assumed consensus
by rzawrecktah on Dec 1, 2010 4:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
not sure if we want Orton.
We’d be a pretty decent team right now if Flip could make the team exert more effort (defense and rebounding) and make the offense more efficient and get on Dray’s case for his atrocious shot selection.
God i miss James Singleton. Am I the only one here?
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
I liked James Singleton
because he could actually box out and grab some damn boards and always hustled. That attitude was contagious and spread to the other players, and he was a very helpful influence on Andray last year. Now Andray has reverted to not playing D and being a pretty inefficient player for our best low post option.
I mean, remember last year would Dray would actually post up? From there, he pulled some pretty sweet Hakeem Olajuwon moves like a quick up-and-under or a midrange jump shot in the lane. Now Dray’s offense consists of launching long twos or starting out on the perimeter like a guard and trying to cross his man over to get to the cup, which has had mixed results. I mean, am I the only one who thinks this way? Or am I totally off base.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe a bit of a stretch, but I'm surprised the team didn't recognize the leadership value of Singleton on Blatche
Especially since Singleton could walk on water, and feed large crowds with three fish and four loaves of bread
At least, according to the posters here.
Unfair comparison
Jesus didn’t rebound nearly as well as Singleton
by imperialme on Dec 1, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
wahahaha!!!
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 1, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
wait, what?
sorry could you rephrase that I don’t really get what ur tryna say
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Wall played withOrton
Maybe Wall is running the franchise
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
why Orton?
the guy is immature. Has a good body but acts like a big kid. I see Kwame in him. Guy loses his cool and gets thrown out of his first summer league game.
Wasn't that Cousins?
Maybe I missed something.
Orton sounds like a pretty mature dude
I’m not sure how good he is from a basketball ability standpoint. You must be referring to Cousins.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
really?
I can’t find anything on the web to that effect.
hmm
either way…don’t really want Orton. I like Gortat, but that’s just me.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
if i knew there was gonna be a lockout next year
then i might consider taking lewis’s contract. but i probably still wouldn’t.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 2:18 PM EST reply actions
In fact, isn't there a rule
that before some date in December a trade has to involve 3 teams?
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
No
You can’t trade guys just signed until December 15, but I think the Wizards get out of that with Dray because of the unique nature of his extension. Not 100% positive though.
I read that from the last NBA trade, but I was unlear about the details
I don’t want Lewis or his contract and neither does Orlando
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Just what we need another shot jackin Big. Maybe Lewis and Yi can have a shootout everygame and see who gets less rebounds
by Unxpekted on Dec 1, 2010 2:25 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
People should read the article a little closer
It said the deal would likely be VC-Gil. Then it goes on to say other people could be involved. I think people are freaking out over nothing. There is nothing to indicate Lewis coming here is an possibility. The only likely trade is VC-Gil which would pretty much be like lighting Gil’s contract on fire and going our seperate ways.
I would assume barring a rash of injuries Carter would just sit on his couch
No reason for us to put him on the floor.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
That should not be an option
Getting nothing at all? Cap-space be damned, we need something more than the opportunity to be spurned by big names in free-agency.
one and done
If we trade Gil for Vince, this is what will happen: Vince reluctantly shows up for the rest of the season, he signs elsewhere next year as a back up. Then we have nice amount of contract room to sign folks that we really want and would compliment the team. A young shooting guard would love to have Wall setting them up…
Lotta Rashard hate here
I don’t see Teddy OKing any deal with Rashard involved.
I don’t see any value to the Wizzies from Vince.
Gilbert is playing better than expected -- so far. He should be worth more than Vince.
I do like Gortat. But sometimes those backups play like backups when they become starters.
I’d be surprised if this deal happens.
Vince = financial flexibility for us
we don’t want Vince, really. We want his contract.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Grunfeld does not want the Arenas contract
but some team will want Carter and his contract and the Wiz will get prospects. So, lets say they get Orton, dump Carter next season, that leaves the Lewis contract. Now we have a 4 who plays more like a 3 than Blatche did and making twice the money. Unles there is another team that wants Lewis
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
WHATS THE RUSH CLEARING CAP SPACE?
Who is coming here once we have space? What big name free agent wants to play for us? John Wall + nobody attracts who? Potential seems to be the only way out- meaning finding another young Gil etc… Dice rolls are forthcoming…I need to see F-A classes for the next two years but, I think our trade leverage will only increase w/ the season. We could get this trade anytime. If we arnt adding a significant piece for the future then dont do this one. Wall + a good player would be a more attractive destination for free agents. Wall alone may not be…
Cap space is worth more than just signing free agents
There’s a whole lotta flexibility that comes with being significantly under the cap.
Like
1. Taking on a contract, but also getting a pick….
2. BOYD trades, to get young talent and/or picks…..
3. Ability to sign “small name” free agents – those younger guys that might fit the team….
Last year, Indiana used that kind of strategy perfectly, using some of their cap space and trading for Mo Pete. NOH was looking to dump salary, and gave Indiana the #10 pick in the draft to take Pete…. The Pacers drafted Cole Aldrich at #10…
The Wizards traded for Kirk Hinrich, using some of their cap space – and received pick #17 – which they used to draft Kevin Seraphin… Hinrich is not in the Wizards long term plans (3-5 years), but Seraphin IS…
With the uncertainty of the new CBA, you can bet there will be a lot of teams wanting to dump salary this Summer… The Wizards could CLEAN UP on 2011 & 2012 draft picks….
He's "delightfully cranky"
...
Didn’t the Pacers draft Paul George at #10 and the Thunder took Aldrich at #11?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Dec 2, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
Its more like the Wiz are addicted to a bad contract.
There always has to be one on this team
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
While I see the sense in that strategy,
it leads me back to the crap-shoot dice, roll ending.
Crap shoot-dice roll
as in – using cap space to obtain young players and draft picks is a crap shoot?
Well…..Yeah……. but would you rather be stuck in CAP hell, unable to do ANY moves?
Sure – the Wiz could trade Arenas for Carter – and go on to win the Championship, with Arenas being a big part of that… Meanwhile Carter, does what he usually does, mopes around on a non-contending team, taking games off… and generally looking like a player without motivation… Is that the kind of “crap shoot” you’re talking about….?
Because I believe that’s exactly what COULD happen….
But you’re forgetting about the cap space the Wizards would have this summer – to make trades, accumulate young players, accumulate draft picks…. and generally, be a PLAYER in the Summer…. THAT scenario fits in with the Wizard’s long range plan.
He's "delightfully cranky"
Thats the crapshoot,
what players? Lose Gil for the sake of clearing cap space to sign what players? Jason Richardson? J R Smith? Jeff Green (restricted fa)? I believe we could do some of this w/o moving Gil UNLESS the trade brings us value. Cap space ALONE is not enough…for me anyway. Shuffle some other pieces around untill we get some value. Gil looking decent and will only get better as Feb approaches. Would you pay the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd price quote shopping in Georgetown? I just dont think we should “sell low”.
To be perfectly honest...
we have a perfectly analogous precedent for this: the pre-work stoppage Washington Capitals. Burdened by large contracts to talented but still not winning players, Ted oversaw a dramatic firesale that netted little in the way of obvious returns. Fan favorites (Bondra, Witt, Halpern) and goats (Jagr) alike were shipped off.
The result? By the time the Capitals took Ovechkin with the first overall it was clear the work stoppage was imminent. The Capitals had so much room under the new salary cap system that they are knocking on the door as a title contener, and it took them two years to do so.
Good drafting and scouting is key (as is having arguably the best player in the sport on your team, but Wall can possibly be that kind of guy too), but the Caps/Wizards comparison is pretty apt.
What does this have to do with your point? Pretty much we may have to get used to the idea of flushing all of our heavy contracts out the door with little more than expirings and raw talent in return.
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 2, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
I agree but,
I just think Gil has/will have more value than cap space alone.
Well, right now, Gil has no value to other teams
If you’re talking about on-court value, it’s way too early in his comeback to say for sure.
Gil has value - yes
But it’s also a crap shoot to think his value will automatically go UP…
What happens if he gets injured again?
What happens when John Wall comes back and Arenas has to go back to playing without the ball?
What happens if he opens his mouth and says something stupid (again)..?
How do we know his value will be any higher than it is right now? In my opinion, it’s ALL a crap shoot…. Trade him now…. wait and trade him later…. keep him…..
He's "delightfully cranky"
Compare worst case scenarios
One one hand Gil could hurt himself again, permanently cementing the injury label and leaving us stuck with him frightens the crap out of me. On the other hand us swapping him for Vince and having flexibility and Gilbert winning a ring with Orlando doesn’t really scare me.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Didn’t we argue how the Hinrich deal wasn’t part of this strategy because he has two more years left. So why would this be any different than that situation?
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 1, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Notable Free Agents for the next two years
2011:
Carmelo Anthony
Rodney Stuckey (restricted)
Aaron Brooks (restricted)
Marc Gasol (restricted)
Wilson Chandler (restricted)
Marcus Thornton (restricted)
Sonny Weems (restricted)
Andrei Kirilenko
2012:
Derrick Rose (restricted)
Roy Hibbert (restricted)
Eric Gordon (restricted)
Gerald Wallace
OJ Mayo (restricted)
Michael Beasley (restricted)
Kevin Love (restricted)
Danilo Gallinari (restricted)
Raymond Felton
Russell Westbrook (restricted)
Maresse Speights (restricted)
Andre Miller
Rudy Fernandez (restricted)
George Hill (restricted)
Deron Williams
Chris Paul
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 1, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
If this trade is for real
My hope is the deal is held up because a third team is involved. Myabe Grunfeld will pay a team to take Lewis. Heres Lewis and 10 mil
NO!!!
I honestly wouldn’t mind the Arenas/Carter Trade because we need to get Arenas contract off our hands…but the Lewis/Blatche Trade needs to go!!!
Lewis has been terrible this season, and even though I get SUPER frustrated with Andray during the season, I still like him better than Lewis.
Lewis will give us NO rebounds what-so-ever….the highest he has had this season was 8!!!!
Soemthing to chew on
If Arenas was injured next week, would the Wizards regret not pulling the trigger on this deal?
Personally, I’m still up in the air on how I feel about this, but Arenas’ injury risk has to be factored into this decision.
My guess is Orlando won't do this trade today anyway
And the two sides are just engaging in an ongoing discussion.
I think both teams will dance around the Gil-VC swap(as they have been doing since the summer) hoping something happens to give them more leverage
Or to make sure Gil is healthy(VC has as much trade value hurt as healthy), but I think it will eventually go down. I don’t think there is any actual possibility of Lewis coming here
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know...
who else is out there for Orlando to target? Melo isn’t going to Orlando. Iggy doesn’t help them. Is there somebody else I’m missing? Especially since the Magic don’t have a lot to offer in return other than an expiring deal (which is so last year).
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 2, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah I know
I highly doubt anything is imminent either way. I just get the feeling that the ball has been in Washington’s court for most of these discussions and right now they seem content to wait things out. In most cases, I’d say that’s the prudent move, but given Arenas’ injury history, I feel like the Wizards need to commit one way or the other before their window of opportunity closes.
by Jake Whitacre on Dec 1, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
yeah on one hand part of me wants to gamble that his value will go up
But on the other hand being able to just go our seperate ways has alot of appeal.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
I would like to at the LEAST
see Gil and Wall actually play AT THE SAME TIME for extended periods. It can only help EVERYTHING.
Stop screaming
I don’t disagree actually – but I also don’t think this trade is imminent or anything. They’re just talking, as they should.
I'll be shocked if they move Blatche now, especially for Rashard
They JUST extended him, trading him now seems panicky and desperate. Also makes Ernie look like he didnt know what he was doing when he extended him
True...
…but these are traumatized fans…they can’t hear the word ‘trade’ without rocking themselves to sleep with visions of Mitch Richmond glued to the insides of their eyeballs, lol
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Dec 2, 2010 1:01 AM EST up reply actions
Totally different...
Webber was the man on that team and there was nothing to replace him when that deal was made. Arenas, God love him, already has his replacement earning triple-doubles for this team.
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 2, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely,
as would I if it were me. But if he leaves and starts to dominate IN OUR OWN DIVISION as a daily reminder AND, we dont sufficiently replace our only REAL scoring threat in the clutch or even worse- swing and miss in F.A……
who cares what he does when he's not on our team?
Why is him succeeding somewhere else a horrible circumstance for us?
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
This isn't football
Divisions don’t mean much. You see many East teams four times a year, and winning your division doesn’t even guarantee you home-court advantage.
Also
The whole “HOW COULD THE EAGLES TRADE MCNABB WITHIN THE DIVISION” thing hasn’t exactly been an issue, y’know.
That would apply if..
We were not the bottom feeder of our division!!!
No, it always applies
Besides the mythical “pain” of seeing a division team have Arenas, why does the division thing matter anyway?
Yeah I never understand the angst people have that a traded player might actually succeed in their new home
All I care is how our team does. If they do well somewhere else and we benefit I have zero problem.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
I think it matters in some sports
Like football, where you see them two times a year and homecourt advantage is determined by it. But not in basketball.
Because
your division record has implications as does your overall. To get out of the east you have to beat out the teams in your division and conference. How many division games do you play as opposed to non division???
No it doesn't
Your conference record is a tiebreaker before your division record.
You play every team in your division four times, but you also play every team in your conference except three (I believe) four times. So there’s really no difference.
Just sayin..
If your at the bottom of your division, why not trade him to a team that doesnt hurt your chances of making it out of the east? I say WAIT is all.
My position is
just to wait and see, not trade him in the division for JUST cap space, thats all im sayin.
Dude.
The only appreciable resolution would be to trade him to a Western Conference team.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Dec 2, 2010 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
Every team in theory hurts our chances of making it out of the East
Should we only trade with western teams? I think the only team keeping us from making it out of the East right now is the Wizards so we should look to improve that team.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
It's not like we're going to be a contender
for the rest of the length of Gil’s career. Orlando wants to win now. We could care less. We just want to rebuild right now. What does it matter if Gil makes Orlando better?
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
the cap space
gives us a lot of financial flexibility in the long run. Granted, we could potentially do some stupid things with it, but we could also play it smart. Mike mentioned the BOYD strategy.
I love Gilbert a lot, and from a personal perspective I’d hate to see him go like this because he’s one of my favorite players. But you have to admit, for the good of the team, the sooner we get rid of him the better. If a good deal can be had, then we should pull the trigger. Arenas for Vince Carter at least sounds fair to me. I don’t particularly like it, but it’s not a bad deal.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
True
This has been kicked around for a while and, while im not opposed to trading Gil, I just think we may get a little better of a deal later. Possibly from the Magic. Sure Gil could get hurt again but, so could V.C. I dont think you can trade an injured player so, that could work either way.
you can trade an injured player
VC getting hurt does absolutley nothing to diminish his trade value. It’s all about his expiring contract not his on court value for 4 months.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
the cap space
gives us a lot of financial flexibility in the long run. Granted, we could potentially do some stupid things with it, but we could also play it smart. Mike mentioned the BOYD strategy.
I love Gilbert a lot, and from a personal perspective I’d hate to see him go like this because he’s one of my favorite players. But you have to admit, for the good of the team, the sooner we get rid of him the better. If a good deal can be had, then we should pull the trigger. Arenas for Vince Carter at least sounds fair to me. I don’t particularly like it, but it’s not a bad deal.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
You play teams
within your division four times. You play teams within your conference, but outside your division, three OR four times. You play teams in the other conference twice. That’s how it currently works in the NBA. So no, we don’t necessarily always play teams in our division more times than teams in other divisions.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
so Mike is right
Divisions don’t mean much in the NBA.
by Marine4Life51 on Dec 1, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Boston not trading with Orlando might make sense since they are competing against each other
With or without Arenas we aren’t competiing with Orlando for 2 years.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
So what?
It’s about whats good for our team.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
This is exactly the thing we don't need right now...
Somebody bringing up something to cause yet another distraction. The best thing we need right now is for everyone to get healthy (Wall, Yi, Howard) and play alongside Arenas without any rumors lingering over and let this team gel together. More than likely Gilbert is gonna be here, and this is just another thing that will mess with Gilberts head just as he was getting comfortable
Gilbert is probably praying the deal goes through.
But we just CANT take Carter and Rashard while shipping out AB, come on Ted, that is just crap. If you think VC is empty now, wait til those two are our starters
My guess...
is that Vince is bought out, or immediately traded again. Ted’s not stupid, you can sell a rebuild to the fans if you are honest about it and don’t make stupid moves pretending you think you have a shot at the playoffs.
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 2, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Hold Up!!
Why don’t we try and get Brandon Bass if we are going to trade Blatche?
He could be the “muscle” PF we need next to McGee.
Thats another Orlando player this team can live without
If this isn’t a straight up deal Arenas for Carter, it just doesn’t make sense to me.
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not too thrilled with his contract either
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah,
its not the best, but its not too bad that we shouldn’t make an attempt to get him out of this trade.
I was unclear
I mean how much money? it will have to be more then Gortat
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
I see your point...
I agree he does have a contract that is pretty high for a backup center…especially since we are trying to develop JaVale with his contract expiring next year.
I would love to have lots of cap space next season and fronload an extension for McGee
Like the Blatche/Collison Deal. If we could give him like a 10M or signing bonus and have him below market value in following years would be nice.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Bring in Gortat and McGee will want more money than Gortat
And gortats contract is already bloated
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
True
and this team doesn’t need Gortat anyway. Bring him in and its going to make for some expensive centers on this team.
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
who cares
what this team needs this year? Gortat is a starting quality Center making less than starter money. That’s a great asset to have.
Not really...
he’s posting a below league-average PER and has a five year contract. Not an assett.
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 2, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Not This Season
Unless you think a 19.3 PER while playing 20+ minutes a game “stinks”.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
by cuppettcj on Dec 1, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also
He’s averaging 9 rebounds per 36 minutes, that’s not exactly terrible. I’d definitely take Bass at this point.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
But to my point
He doesn’t play much because he freelances a lot – though that’s changed a bit this year. I also don’t know if this rebounding can keep up. But that’s better than I expected.
He's Playing 20+ Minutes a Game
Is that considered not much? Just curious.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
I Think it's His Jumper
I heard he really worked on it this off-season. I didn’t think much of him before this season either. But this season, he has been automatic within 15 feet. You know about some of the advanced stats pages. Where can I look up his percentages on jumpers between 5 and 15 feet? He takes a ton of them now, and makes a ton of them now.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
I love Gil
That is all.
My swag was phenomenal.
by se7en on Dec 1, 2010 3:52 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Brandon Bass can play
He still needs playing time to grow and become a good player.
I loved AJ, Caron, and BWood
doesn’t mean I’m not glad having their combined $31m for 2010-11 off the books.
The decision about whether to trade Gil for Vince straightup boils down to:
If Gil were a free agent this summer, would you sign him to 3yr/62m extension?
Or would you rather have that money to bring in young talent to surround Wall and who can be at the prime of their game in three or four years when Wall becomes a championship-caliber PG? In three years, Gil will be a 32 year old guard with extensive history of knee injuries making 22m.
Turning the page on the Consistency Era and on morethesamewiz
by Emmet O'Neal on Dec 1, 2010 4:16 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
well said Sir.
VC is basically a contract mulligan.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Not only that...
but it isn’t often that you get the chance to get out from deals like that while you already have your new franchise player on the roster.
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 2, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Its not Arenas-Xarter. Its Lewis -Blatche
Blatche is tradeable. Lewis is more untradeable than Arenas. Now the team is stuck with an overpaid 4 for 3 years, Orlando is tryiong to dump Lewis on this team, so unless this team coan dump Lwewis somewhere else. I say hell no!
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
This is a good way to look at it
But it’s important to note that the distinction isn’t so simple because the Wizards will have to use a lot of that money they save to keep their own guys, thereby negating some of that cap room.
Spending money to keep their own guys happens regardless
of whether or not the Wizards go through with this rumored trade.
Turning the page on the Consistency Era and on morethesamewiz
True Mike but having more initial cap space can help us craft deals that are better long term
So that we can keep our contending window open longer when we do get there.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair
Gil’s age doesn’t really mean much since he’s missed most of his last three seasons. His injury history, maybe. But as of yet, we have no reason to worry about his knee.
Orlando is initiating all this
If they want arenas then make it Carter- I would rather see this team stuck with arenas and his contract than lewis and his contract
I don't like the proposed deal
I don’t really like it. I love Gil, but he has a HUGE contract and the Gil for Carter swap would give us HUGE cap flexibility. Gil is one of my favorite players, but if the Gil-for-Carter swap were to happen, I wouldn’t be mad about it. That’s not really the part of the deal I don’t like. The part of the deal that I don’t like is giving up Andray Blatche & acquiring Rashard Lewis. I agree with everything Mike said about Lewis, and that kind of deal just isn’t worth it for a rebuilding team. I hear so many people complaining about the Wizards having too many finesse big men and the frontcourt needing more toughness, but this wouldn’t fix the problem, it would just add to it. Sure, Blatche a lot of times doesn’t give maximum effort and is lazy sometimes, but he is talented, young, and obviously coming into the season the front office thought he was a big man of the future for this team because the extended him. There’s no excuse with poor effort, but people forget that he broke his foot in the offseason and hadn’t played basketball in 3 months, which also prevented form staying in shape. He looks noticeable slower and has no lift to his game right now, which is affecting him on offense and defense. The Wizards should give him some time. He has also been battling some injuries early in the season.
Cap Space?
Why are we battling for cap space if Leonsis’s strategy is to build through the draft rather than high profile free agents? Are we gearing up for a move for carmelo this summer? If so taking the lewis contract doesn’t help us.
It doesn’t seem like leonsis to allow us to make a move motivated solely by cap space in the hopes of chasing a big named free agent. If gil is moving out of DC it’s b/c we want to dump him as a person and a player as much as it is for cap space.
Cap space would be awesome for youth/draft movement
The Blatche-Lewis was a throwaway rumor people are putting way too much stock in.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough on lewis & blatche...
dutch hoopfan told me it’s been discussed ad infinitum, but for my feeble mind, can you re-iterate how cap space helps the youth/draft movement.
Dude, just scroll through the comments
this point has been discussed thoroughly already
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 1, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
ummm
i read about a million of them. I didn’t see anyone discussing how cap space fits into the leonsis ideology of how to build a team. Forgive my ignorance, but cap space seems necessary for signing free agents to max contracts, not developing players or rookies.
But I apologize if i waded into a conversation that was way over my head in intellectual terms.
I recall that...
and it was a good post. I thought leonsis was going to follow it when he talked about acquiring more pick in the draft, and he did to a certain extent with the hinrich trade.
But how does Arenas for Carter figure into that? Just because we snap up a project big man? I didn’t see a draft pick as a huge part of that trade, but if we were getting rid of gil for vince’s contract and a first rounder, i think that’s a lot easier to argue for than trading him for VC and cap space
I also don't think the first-rounder moves the needle much
It’s going to be the 27th pick or something like that.
True but we could package lower picks for a higher one
much like the Booker/Ndiaye trade.
PS. sorry five by five if i offended you, didn’t mean to
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 1, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
nah...
i’m just sensitive, especially when it’s about gil leaving us! He’s a moron, but he’s our moron.
Yeah, i know, he's our morron
much like i like complaining about blatche lately, but when i saw his name in this story my first reaction was nooooooooooooooo not blatche!
In the end you have to consider things rationally and to me trading Arenas for capspace is a good thing. However Blatche for Lewis would be stupid to me.
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 1, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry to harp
But Cap space adds another element in front loaded deals ala Blatche/Collison. Giving a guy your gonna resign anyways a huge signing bonus in the first year improves your long term outlook and lets you keep the band together for longer.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
if you have a $60 million budget (per year)
do you want to devote $20 mill (1/3 of your budget) to gil? after his knee issues? when you have another point guard you’re committed to?
if not, it’s time to move that 20 mill for something else, as you cannot just cut it. whether you get another asset in return, or just clear the money so you can use it elsewhere down the line (devote it to a free agent, use it as wiggle room to make a financially lopsided trade, use it to acquire draft picks, or use it to pay your own guys who become stars… it doesn’t really matter, the point is, you reallocate that 20 mill).
getting an expiring for gil, considering his health concerns, would be reasonable – smart even.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Quick scanning the reactions at Pinstripe and a blogger over there named 'magicfaninTN ' commented an interesting view:
Is this Otis misdirection?
Is the GM working another deal and leaking info on the Arenas idea to put pressure on another front office? With Otis it is always possible.
Otis beeing their GM obviously
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
That's sort of like...
me coming on here and saying:
Is this EG misdirection?
Is the GM working another deal and leaking info on the Carter idea to put pressure on another front office? With EG it is always possible?
Of course it could be bullshit – but the deal makes sense and is valid. I dont’ see any other deals out there that are this obvious for both teams.
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 2, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
two jump shooters and a project center. i think flip will like it. and ernie will make a crazy claim like …see i saved you all money…we are not paying one guy so much. and we will win fewer games.
great move for orlando if they pull that off.
arenas for gortat straight up plus whatever dead weight they have to throw in to make the numbers work.
by les boulez bomber on Dec 1, 2010 4:57 PM EST reply actions
Sounds to me like Arenas is gone
The kiss of death. We love him. he is the future of our team. Really? And we are listening to anyone who has an offer.
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Ted shot it down
Thanks for playing everyone! On a serious note though, I’m not incredibly familiar with Ted’s mannerisms. Is he doing this to be “open and transparent” and honest about what is going on with the team? That quote has got to be an attempt at joking, but I’m not sure it made me believe him much if at all. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Ted was the “league source” quoted in the story. He could have gone on background and said this rumor is not true because nobody wants Gilbert.
I don't want an Owner who is open and transparent ahead of time
I want a smart owner who says the right things to preserve trade values. The Open and Transparent thing is stupid in reality. After the fact sure be open and transparent but don’t show your hand if you don’t have to.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 1, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
truth be told…id rather have arenas- even with his contract- than v carter and/or r lewis. a trade only makes sense to me if we get something we need who is relatively young…like a legit center. arenas is a real playmaker and an extra for us. gortat is a real center and an extra for them.
id throw in blatche for carter or lewis if that is what it took to make the deal work.
without blatche, i think it is a good trade for us. with him, i think it is win/win for both teams.
in conclusion, daniel orton must really suck! lol
by les boulez bomber on Dec 1, 2010 5:05 PM EST reply actions
some of you need to reconsider what you are saying
i hear all the time about how all of you want more minutes for nick young etc etc. this is a step in the right direction. if its even true.
>>>> three way trade maybe
ORL sends vince to us and lewis to 76ers
we send gill to ORL and and dray to 76ers
76ers send andre to us and maybe noci to ORL
Orlando gets gill and relief from two players they don’t need to make a run
We get a big expiring, lose gill, and get igge
76ers get rid of igge, and get a more offensive forward in dre, why they would want lewis beats me. Who would ever want that guy.
doesn’t work out on the trade machine though
But the fans over on liberty ballers want igge gone because of his offense
So what would they do with Brand if they had Blatche?
by ThePGPhenomenon on Dec 1, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
brands up in two years right
they want to groom a center. play brand and blatche for two season. at 4 and 5
by Bcc on Dec 1, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
as long as they eventually unload arenas im fine with anything
you guys need to end your love affair with arenas, seriously. It causes you to not think rationally about the situation at hand
how do those salaries factor into trades… doesnt it have to be within 10% or something? is it first year or all years?
2010-2011 salaries (base and yrs remaining)
arenas- 18mm (4yrs)
blatche- 6mm (5yrs)
gortat- 6mm (4yrs)
lewis- 20mm (3yrs)
carter- 17mm (2yrs)
i’d make this trade all day long…arenas+blatche for gortat + lewis or carter
by les boulez bomber on Dec 1, 2010 5:11 PM EST reply actions
blatche is a really good fit for them…complements howards game well!
by les boulez bomber on Dec 1, 2010 5:15 PM EST reply actions
I agree
Orlando with Arenas, Blatche and Howard + a shooter and a slasher and decent backups in Gortat, Pietrus, Reddick and Bass is a serious contender in my mind. Plus both Blatche and Howard are both only 24yrs old so a in 3/4 years they just replace arenas and keep contending.
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 1, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
well…i wasnt planning to just give them those players…we get gortat and one of their deadweight contracts
they are still legit though and we toughen up inside which we sorely need to do.
by les boulez bomber on Dec 1, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Not me.
Blatche can be traded. Arenas is getting better and might eventually be worth some of that money. Gortat is overpaid and Lewis cannot be traded and he will never be worth the money he is being paid. Arenas for Carter makes sense and thats all that makes sense. I still think they are negotiating. the timing seemed odd. I think as long as Arenas keeps playing and improving his value goes up. lewis’ value is on the decline. He is untradeable. He is a fake 4. So, no. I would not trade blatche for gortat or lewis. Make me a better offer.
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
uhm i think we have a mutual understanding here
we was just talking about what this would do for Orlando’s line up.
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 1, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Oh
from Orlandos point of view. Ofcourse. If its Blatche for Lewis. orlando makes out like a bandit. A young power forward for an aging 3> Blatche can play center.
i wouldnt trade arenas for carter at all. yeah we save two years in salary but for what? it would help our lottery position next year lol
by les boulez bomber on Dec 1, 2010 5:43 PM EST reply actions
3yrs
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Dec 1, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
No.
He goes at the end of next year in a trade. Some team will want his contract
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
In fact
The wix can do the same thing with hinrich at the end of this season. Dump his contract and score a draft pick
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
but we did not really pursue a BOYD strategy this year. so there is no reason i suspect we will do it except incidentally. ernie is not thinking like that. he would not have signed hinrich if he were. he would not have bunched up those draft choices and, imho, underdrafted for the assets we had available to us.
by les boulez bomber on Dec 1, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Carter can turn into a draft pick or young player.
You get Arenas’ contract off the books and you are only stuck with carter for the short run
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
true…but i think arenas has a lot he can teach john wall and is willing to do so.
by les boulez bomber on Dec 1, 2010 6:06 PM EST reply actions
Really think about what you just said.
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 2, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
carter is a lazy bum….why even bring him into the equation if it only gets you a draft pick a year or two earlier. arenas contract has value too. just two years later. during that time, i think we surround wall with a much player to develop JW
by les boulez bomber on Dec 1, 2010 6:08 PM EST reply actions
I am not advocating anything
Its the Wiz who are shopping him around. I am happy to Arenas play better team ball.
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
If you saw the movie celtic pride
Arenas was like Damon Wayans in the movie. He was about himself and not the team, I think the last suspension really woke him up. Now, he plays more for the team. he is very different player than he once was. Just because you can score doesn’t mean you should. Sometimes its better to pass the ball. I like arenas now as a player.
by hambonejackson on Dec 1, 2010 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
If we lose Gilbert, I hope we lose him to a bad team that’s willing to give up draft picks, because a trade for veterans who are planning for an imminent retirement makes little sense. It would be like the Knicks, and now the Pistons, signing McGrady.
If we lose Arenas, I want those touches going to young guys. I want to see a commitment to a genuine rebuild, not Rashard Lewis jacking up threes at every opportunity. I want to see Booker and company make real progress now, when we know we can’t win. Make all these losses count for something (player development and higher draft position). Lewis &/or Carter guarantees both present and future mediocrity.

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