Wizards fall in overtime to Pistons
by Mike Prada on Nov 21, 2010 8:51 PM EST
in Recaps
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PrintThis was the kind of game I figured we'd see a lot with the Wizards this year. Exciting, full of promise, but also full of bad defense and fundamental breakdowns. Sometimes, the Wizards will win, sometimes, they'll lose. Tonight, they ended up losing because they stopped guarding Rip Hamilton and because Gilbert Arenas made two poor plays at the end of the game. Three, I guess, if you count the play where the ball slipped out of his hands.
A couple really quick thoughts:
- On that last play of regulation: Arenas made the right play. Way more things can happen when you drive. You could get fouled. You could get a higher-percentage shot. You could set someone else up for an easy shot. So no, Gilbert should not have pulled up. The guy who didn't make the right play, predictably, was Andray Blatche. I realize Blatche needed to space the floor, but as soon as Gil drove, Blatche should have cut to the basket. Villanueva was going to help off him anyway, so he needed to do something to give himself a higher-percentage shot. Standing at the three-point line isn't it.
- Besides those two turnovers, that Arenas' best games since the injury. He's scored more in other games, and he's put up better numbers before, but I really liked how under control he was. He put his teammates in tough spots a couple times with passes, but usually, he was right on the mark. He especially did a good job finding the shooters in the corners.
- However, Arenas really did a bad job on Hamilton in the overtime. Then again, Kirk Hinrich was equally bad once he was switched onto Hamilton. Hamilton hit a couple tough shots, but mostly, he was open. Hinrich has to be better at getting over screens.
- JaVale McGee is growing up. He's not perfect -- he still gets beat on the glass, and made a couple silly mistakes, but he's definitely doing a better job of being in position. That said, he really got worked on the defensive boards in the fourth quarter.
- Blatche continues to be unbelievably frustrating with his defense effort, but at least he brought it down the stretch. He really attacked the hoop, and if he commits to doing that quickly rather than waiting around, it helps his game.
- I really liked Flip Saunders' decision to start the second quarter with Arenas, Nick Young, Cartier Martin, Trevor Booker and JaVale McGee. You have two good perimeter shooters adept at hitting spot-up shots and a bruiser that allows McGee to be himself.
- The game was lost with terrible possessions down the stretch. In regulation, Al Thornton got the ball with a minute left, which was not smart. In overtime, you know about Arenas' issues. I blame play-calling to a certain extent on the first turnover -- really not sure about the wisdom of running a pick and roll towards the corner two straight times. I blame Arenas on the second turnover. Calling a timeout to set up a play is much better than trying to push the pace when the break isn't there. The pass wasn't that bad - Nick could have caught it. But Arenas shouldn't have forced the issue in the first place.
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how do u figure 2 poor plays? I count at least 6
3 turnovers in OT
1 before OT
Didn’t help javale when he was about to get a 5 second call at the elbow
Didn’t guard Hamilton 3 consecutive times down the floor
3+1+2= 6 i appreciate how much a of a fan you are but be realistic.
O by the way he made $25k today.
by Icedoc269 on Nov 21, 2010 9:01 PM EST reply actions
He also had 19 and 16
Without him, this game isn’t even close. I appreciate how much of a skeptic you are, but be realistic.
ironically...
i am the most realistic person on this whole board. He’s artificial. All style no substance. Great scorer, i admit…just not a good basketball player
I heard the rockets want arenas we should trade him for a 1st rounder. every game we play him his stock drops.
by Icedoc269 on Nov 21, 2010 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously
He hasn’t even met mae.jude
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Nov 21, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
Icedoc269-
Arenas had a great game. He played largely in control—I mean he controlled not only the Wiz and had them playing really well, but he controlled the WHOLE game for long stretches.
He scored when he needed to, he drove inside, shot well from outside, got his team involved, found open men.
I was very impressed with his overall game. Best of the year easily.
Makes me wonder how this guy who controls the game will work with Wall, who also needs to control the game to thrive.
I’d say Arenas’ one big mistake was the pass to Young. That was dumb. Hold the ball and take the last shot. Even if Young scores on a breakaway then you are leaving Det with a last shot.
The TO on the drive was a blown call by the refs. The ball that slipped out of his hands is unfortunate, but there you go. It’s a TO.
Arenas was the best player on the court last night for either team.
by MR on Nov 22, 2010 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
it seems more like every game he plays
his stock rises. 19 and 16….shows he can still play. had games with 30 and 24 pts last week. his stock is only rising
by PhenomenalSwag on Nov 21, 2010 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
all style no substance?
in your opinion what about his game lacks substance? He’s even improving a bit on D. Guards in the NBA can’t become all-stars without a grasp of at least some of the fundamentals.
IMO his stock is rising every time he has a game like this. He sure as hell looks a lot better than t-mac. Although at certain times tonight our D made T-mac look young again.
by Marine4Life51 on Nov 21, 2010 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
"just not a good basketball player"
I know we are not supposed to disparage fellow BFers, but this has to be one of the most ignorant comments Ive ever read here. Honestly.
There aren’t many players who can do 19 and 16 in the entire NBA.
Numbers like this are a career night for over half of the players in the league.
Delusional
I know you are all very big wizards fans—as am i—and I dont intend to disparage anyone, but at some point you have to face reality and realize what he gives up is worth more than what he gives us. You see 16 assists, I see 20 wide open shots due to his inabilty to fight through or anticipate maxile screens. Theres a reason NO gms in the league want him. I’m a tough critic but I’m not delusional.
by Icedoc269 on Nov 21, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
if...
we had bruce bowen when he was 28 rather than arenas now, we’d have won 2 more games so far this year.
how could i hate kirk heinrich?
he plays smart, makes few mistakes, makes open jumpers, and plays lock down team D. My only criticsm of him is he passes up open jumpers too much. love kirk.
I know I’m the odd man out here, and i dont want to just single out gil (obviously he’s not hte only problem), but the guy makes $17mil/yr. The mistakes he made tonight are simply unacceptable.
by Icedoc269 on Nov 21, 2010 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
You've got to be kidding me
If you honestly are going to get on Gil for letting Rip get off, then you need to get on Kirk too for getting flattened on screens in the overtime. The two guys switched responsibilities and Rip killed Kirk more.
Honestly, it seems like you’re just seeing what you want to see.
evidence
I think I’ve explained it you guys just don’t want to face it. If you can’t get around any screens (or anticipate them), and another player immediately has to help, and the ball gets swung to a wide open player like, chalrlie vilinueva how many times… how much more evidence do you need?
All I’m asking you to do is be true bball critics and not fans. So yea when he scores 30 thats great, but we lose every game 110-105, how can you say he gives more than he gives up? Would you rather have a guy that can score 30 (but realistically can only get that 1/4 games, and even when he’s close he struggles down the stretch when the other team really buckles down), or a guy thats gonna get through the pic w/o needing help, so Villinueva won’t get all those open shots, and can hold teams to 90 points?
by Icedoc269 on Nov 22, 2010 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
also
I’m not saying I’m an expert by any means, I’m just purely a realist.
by Icedoc269 on Nov 22, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
Saying Hinrich plays "lock down D" is absurd.
I’m not sure how someone could watch last night’s game and think Gil was a lesser player than Kirk.
Bah, I lost a long response to answer this Q
But basically, here are the problems with your logic.
1. It’s not Arenas’ fault that Villanueva dropped 25. It’s Andray Blatche’s fault for being awful at communicating that picks are coming, stepping out on pick and rolls, helping angle off cutters on the baseline, and doing an awful job of rotating back to his man. Every good perimeter defender is only as good as the big man helping him. It’s no coincidence that Bowen was nothing without Duncan, that Hinrich looks like a sieve here when he was great in Chicago and that Pierce and Allen only became competent when Garnett came to Boston. To blame Arenas for Villanueva … I mean, there’s really no better way to say it other than to say that NBA defense just don’t work like that.
2. Arenas has consistently been a major net positive for the Wizards in his career. His adjusted plus/minus number in 2007 was one of the best in basketball. This season, the Wizards are 7.2 points/100 possessions better overall with him on the court, and are 4.3 points better/100 possessions defensively with him out there. So basically, your logic has literally no basis in fact there.
3. If you switch Bowen in for Arenas, you have literally no shot creators in there. You know what would happen then? Blatche would launch even more terrible jumpers and have even more turnovers, and Hinrich would be forced to pull that baseline dribble routine more often. That would lead to Piston rebounds and runouts, negating any defensive advantage Bowen may bring in the halfcourt.
4. Do you really think DeShawn Stevenson, Jared Jeffries and Larry Hughes, among others, could have gotten the huge contracts they got without Arenas’ ability to occupy defenders? Do you really think Cartier Martin and Nick Young could have been effective players last night without Arenas’ ability to drive and kick out for open threes?
Look, Arenas isn’t a perfect player, but in your attempt to be a “realist,” you’re just being obtuse. Arenas had 19 points and 16 assists, keeping the Wizards in it with some outstanding, proper plays. One game earlier, he held O.J. Mayo to 1-11 shooting. The money has already been paid to him – it’s a sunk cost – and it’s not like people here aren’t realistic and realizing that maybe Arenas is worth dealing once he builds up his trade value (a first-round pick for Arenas? One, you don’t understand cap rules, and two … nobody will offer anything even close to that).
Reasonable Gilbert Arenas talk would recognize strengths and weaknesses. You’re just saying he’s a net negative. That’s not reasonable at all.
by Mike Prada on Nov 22, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I let the game
do the talking.
Arenas absolutely GARBAGE 2nite once again. YOUNG NEEDS TO START over him.
Plus N. Young is just a better fit w/wall arenas isn’t a spot up shooter he only likes to shoot of the dribble.
by Icedoc269 on Nov 23, 2010 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
Icedoc your over doing it
We all know Gilbert is a below average defender, but he is more significantly above average on the offensive side. So much so he was an allstar and carried a mediocre team to several postseasons. No conference finals, i know, but its silly to put that on him alone. Even today his good outweighs his bad.
I think we agree to that, no?
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 22, 2010 2:07 AM EST up reply actions
everyone who..
thinks arenas GIVES more than he GIVES UP suffers from mass delusion.
And anytime you want to have a beer w/me and watch him on NBA league pass replay I’d be more than happy to show you on every game this year. But, the fact is arenas’ overall game gives up more than he gives. And frankly, because he makes $17 mil/yr I hold him accountable and don’t nearly as critical as other players.
by Icedoc269 on Nov 22, 2010 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
So basically, you're just shouting stuff without backing it up
No no no, you’ll only understand if I, the preeminent expert on the NBA, the world and the galaxy, can explain it to you in person.
Bottom line: if you can’t explain your point in words, you have no point.
Dude grab a flight to Amsterdam
we’ll drink and smoke some so i can level with you, cause i sure as hell cant sober…
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 22, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
That doesn't make sense, to be honest
by Unxpekted on Nov 21, 2010 11:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ha ha
i am the most realistic person on this whole board
followed by …
we should trade him for a 1st rounder. every game we play him his stock drops.
by CJHutch on Nov 22, 2010 2:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
LOL
The reason Gm’s dont want Gil is his contract doesnt fit. He can ball, don’t get it twisted. Im not the biggest Gillie fan(CVC stand up!) but you are going overboard.
A lot of scorers around the league aren’t great defenders…at least Gil makes an effort….cause regardless of how he plays on D, in a game like this, he would have been in no matter what. Take a look at Kevin Durant…his team won without him because down the stretch they actually played DEFENSE…
My favorite player is 7 Day Dray…watch him for a game, I guarantee you will freak the F*CK out if you count every single mistake he makes…
Plus who the hell can we trade him too?
He is in—-PAST his prime, has a GIANT contract, and has an injury history. The only two teams he really fits are NY and Orlando. They both need gunners….but you can’t just swap a first round pick for the guy, their cap room doesn’t allow it. We could trade him to Philly for Elton Brand…but that would be completely f*ckin pointless.
Most Realistic...
Yet doesn’t realize that there is no 5 second call in the NBA..
by SkinsWizStangs on Nov 21, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also
Didn’t Gil hit a jumper off a beautiful split play with Nick Young on that play? Or maybe I’m thinking of a different play.
If you're really going to nit-pick
and count his “bad” plays, why not count all his good plays too. Each field goal made plus each assist. So that 9 + 16 = 25…… and 25 > 6. Pretty good night for Gil I’d say. Sure he made some mistakes near the end with some costly turnovers, but if you watched the game you would know that without him, we wouldn’t even be in the game. He’s the best player on the team right now, you gotta take the good with the bad. He might have “lost” us this game with unfortunate turnovers, but he’ll also win plenty of games for us this season.
by PhenomenalSwag on Nov 21, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
Once again Wizards fall apart during a close game
Better execution on offense is needed down the stretch but the Wiz actually lead going into crunch time.
They obviously need to play better defense but the main thing is to quit getting dominated on the boards (specifically offensively). Wiz got stops but there were a number of time when guys like Maxiell and Wallace gave Detroit multiple possessions and Detroit made them pay for it.
Yeah, that pretty much sums things up.
Those two things get better slowly, so we’ll be mentioning them all year most likely.
Defensive rebounding.
Execution in the last 5:00.
by MR on Nov 22, 2010 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
Next game, keep an eye on our bigs...
Most of the time, our guards are being “torched” because they’re getting screened…. and our big men don’t give them any help, no warning, and rarely step out.
It’s easy to look at Rip Hamilton’s 12 points in the 4th quarter and blame Kirk Hinrich and Gilbert Arenas – but in fact, a number of those plays would have turned out to the Wizard’s advantage had our big men communicated, or stepped out on the guard… Detroit’s bigs are not really a threat for pick-and-pop, and less than adequate rolling to the basket.
Rip absolutely tears up smaller, quicker guards… because he uses screens so well… and because he gets good elevation, and has a quick release, they cannot contest his shot even if they get around the screen.
If I were Flip, I might have tried putting someone big and fast on Rip – like Booker… He has the speed to keep up with Hamilton, and the length to bother his shot.
He's "delightfully cranky"
I'm liking Booker
more and more every time I see him play. His speed really stands out when he gets out there. Putting him on a hot player makes a lot of sense.
Width
Booker is too wide to defend Rip. When Rip brushes past a screen, his narrow shoulders allow him to take an inside track. Booker would have to swing around wider because he’s got shoulders. Just a couple of inches, but that’s all that Rip needs to get his shot off. I like Booker, but Rip’s a terrible match up for him.
Even Gilbert has the same problem. Gil has wide shoulders for his height. Add in the inches in height he gives up and his current lack of explosiveness, and Rip can get a shot off dismayingly easily.
Currently, our best bet for defending Rip is probably Nick Young, but even Nick has a pretty wide frame.
Once he returns from injury, John Wall should be a good match because of his narrower frame, incredible speed, and explosive athleticism.
But most importantly, as has been mentioned elsewhere, our bigs really need to do a better job of helping when our guards get screened.
I fully understand the role of our Bigs
but I dont buy into the sudden reversal of defensive expectations at the guard positions. For years people went nuts because Gil was such a poor defender. Now Wall and KH are often getting abused….but it’s really the fault of our bigs?
Given the rules these days, nobody can really shut down opposing guards…but I feel like our guys can’t stay in front of anyone.
When you give up uncontested spot-up threes, that’s on the guards. They’re either playing too far off their man or not putting in enough effort to recover to their man and contest the shot.
When you give up open looks on a catch-and-shoot off a pick, that can be either on the big or on the guard. Either the big isn’t “showing” hard enough, or the guard isn’t fighting hard enough to get around the pick. Yesterday, the guards were trying, but the bigs weren’t getting it done. Our bigs should be able to “show” quite hard when Maxiell or Wallace sets a pick, because we have the length advantage to make the pass really difficult.
Though I'm not a big fan of +/- stats
Last night in a 5pt loss, Blatche was -12 and KH was -14. Speaks for itself in this case imho
Yeah - but
Arenas was a +3 ….. and Young was 0
I’m with Yop here…. Both Arenas and Young were “fighting” through screens, or quickly trying to go underneath…. but the bigs have to give them TIME…
Just like setting screens, it’s all a matter of timing.. and none of our bigs seem to know how to show hard defensively on a screen play – and STILL play the passing lane and get back to their man quickly… In stead, they rarely show…. and when they do, it’s cursory at best; leaving the opponent guard too soon- before the Wizards guard can get back into position.
The best big on the team at showing on the pick-and-roll is Yi Jianlian – but Blatche and McGee are both useless on the PnR defense. (And guess what,….. they’re both useless SETTING screens too)..
He's "delightfully cranky"
People need to spend time watching Blatche closely on pick and rolls. It can be maddening most times.
Follow me on twitter - @CJ_202SB
by CJ Hempfield on Nov 22, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
Everyone gets torched.
I guarantee Det fans are feeling like their guys got torched by our guards too.
Hinrich scored 0pts and had 0assts in the 4thQ+OT
bet Detroit guards dont feel like he was torching them.
And Arenas seemed to get around anyone guarding
him at any time he wanted to …
He's "delightfully cranky"
Hinrich was 6-9 with 6 assists
Did he even take a shot in the 4th? I don’t recall him getting big 4th Q minutes.
by MR on Nov 22, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve come to realize that many Wiz fans are hyper-critical of McGee. It really blows my mind considering how much the guy changes the game defensively when he’s in there. It seems like anytime the guy makes a mistake, people throw up their hands and complain how he just doesn’t get it. The guy 22 years old and nearly averaging a double-double and nearly averaging 3 blocks per game. How many other 22 yr olds have done that?
Sure, he might dribble of his foot once per game or make an errant pass a couple times per game but it’s really bizarre to see so much focus on his mistakes as opposed to his contributions. When he does block or alter a shot it seems its now taken for granted that he will block 2-3 shots per game and get 8 and 8 in under 25 minutes on the court. Those are insane numbers for a 22 yr. old. I’ll take those stats and his upside and deal with his growing pains any day of the week.
This is coming from an outsider who enjoys watching McGee and the Wiz.
by rmcc4444 on Nov 21, 2010 9:10 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
He's gonna be dominant, am really enjoying watching the development.
He’s been playing better basically every game for 2 weeks now. Tonight he was actually calling out D to his teammates, unheard of last season. His upside is right there with Wall’s. We have a 20yr old phenom PG and a 22yr old phenom-in-the-making C with Mcgee. Gotta love it
It's just frustrating because he's so raw
You can see the unlimited potential he has. But what he really needs to work on is sticking to the fundamentals and making sound decisions. Instead of always going for the block and getting a potential goaltend called against him in the first place, just try good and steady defensive positioning. His effort on rebounding has gotten a lot better i’ll give you that.
by Marine4Life51 on Nov 21, 2010 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
overall, I suppose I agree with you
And I’ve been one of those critical of him. I mostly get mad on the bonehead plays he tries that I learned not to do in junior high. There’s no doubt he’s one of the most athletic big men in the league.
But the argument that he’s “only 22 years old” just doesn’t hold eater anymore. Not in my book. I dunno, call it the Kwame Brown factor, but I’m through feeling sorry for guys who’ve been in the league for 3 or 4 years and still don’t “get it.” I’m not saying McGee falls into this category, I just mean in general. These guys coming in after 1 year in college, I think they should be READY to play in the NBA. And I’m not talking about normal rookie growing pains, I’m talking about guys who are clueless fundamentally. That’s the reason, in my opinion, that overall play has dropped off these days. Too many sloppy players ( a lot of them starters) who have been in the league for 3+ years, yet still need “time to develop.” It’s garbage. Half the time, by the time they “develop”, they’re on another team.
Damn, sorry. I guess I got kinda carried away there. Anyway, you’re prob’ly right about cutting McGee some slack. But only for so long.
by CJHutch on Nov 22, 2010 2:20 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well rmcc, most of us got somewhat frustrated he made the same mistakes again and again
Switching to late or not at all and going up for the block every single time, making our paint the least exclusive club in town.
Somehow he did not seem to understand how to use his length and atheleticism to grab defensive rebounds and seemed often to leak out early for fast break dunks.
However, he is showing great improvement in all those area’s the last couple of games, wich is awesome. If he continous to do so, he has a change to be an allstar one day and more importantly, be part of core with Wall that competes for homecourt advantage year after year.
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 22, 2010 2:33 AM EST up reply actions
McGee has had a good week or so.
He’s hustling. He’s playing better defense. He’s cutting down on his bonehead plays on both sides of the court.
And I think during that time the criticism of him around here has dwindled to barely a trickle.
So what’s the problem?
by MR on Nov 22, 2010 8:38 AM EST up reply actions
mcgee had a couple bad turnovers down the stretch
trying to pass the ball to blatche. but you know what, i was happy that he actually tried to pass the ball.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Nov 22, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Ok that was ugly BBall down the strech, but
Javale was very good overall
Booker was nice
Arenas was great and is getting better each game
Nick was more in the flow of the offense
Martin was good in only 13 min
Pretty good energy during THE whole game
I liked what i saw tonight
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
Yes, indeed.
Those good minutes are earning Flip’s trust. Hell, yeah. I can think of worse things than a lottery pick
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Nov 21, 2010 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
The one issue tonight that can't be fixed this season is
too much Hinrich. He did next to nothing in 2nd half. 0pts/0assts and a few TOs in the 4thQ and OT.
Unfortunately, Flip is going to play him heavy, heavy minutes every night no matter what….so we just have to hope he usually has solid games. It’s frustrating because it was obvious he was working his ass off in the 1st half and would not be able to sustain that all night. He’s so good for 20-25mins a night! But Flip plays him 35
Yeah, I thought
Flip might give Young and Martin a little more burn. Both seemed like they were dialed in, playing defense and hitting shots. I like Hinrich, but there’s no excuse for playing him nearly 40 minutes in a game.
I actually think
Flip’s gonna start playing Arenas and Wall together more. There’s no doubt it’s just a more dynamic pairing. Then maybe Hinrich will be more effective in limited minutes. I always thought he was a solid guard, better suited coming off the bench. He does know HOW to play defense. He’s just not fast enough. One thing I liked was him getting his hands in, swiping at the ball one time on Rip. It really seemed to bother Rip, and he put up a poor shot. Too bad he smoked Hinrich the rest of the game. But what REALLY frustrates me about Kirk is when he dribbles ALL THE WAY under the basket, and then back out. I feel like he’s trying a Bob Cousy or Steve Nash impression, only he doesn’t have anywhere near the ball skills or court vision to pull it off. He’s just wasting seconds off the clock.
by CJHutch on Nov 22, 2010 2:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Flip is in love with Hinrich.
His aversion to bringing KH off the bench was the genesis for the 3guard lineup he trotted out during preseason. I think Kirk will be playing 30-35mins/night all season regardless of how he performs, he’s Flip’s guy.
That said, the way Gil played last night is probably incompatible with Wall anyway.
Yeah im afraid wall and gilbert are going to be less effective together than we hoped...
Really really hope im wrong though
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 22, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
Hinrich did some good stuff and some really dumb stuff this game. He definitely pounded the ball for way too long at times and lost his dribble a few times resulting in TOs.
kirk H. WAS THE ONLY REASON WE LOST. WHY IS KIRK PLAYING OVER NICK YOUNG. KIRK IS ANOTHER EARL BORGAN, DRIBBLE , DRIBBLE UNTIL THE CLOCK RUNS OUT. PLEASE FLIP NOT AGAIN.
Freddie Smith
Mae's back! Mae's back!
Yay! Missed ya buddy.
LOL. How do you know for sure its her though?
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 22, 2010 1:56 AM EST up reply actions
damn it stop banning mae.
He brings excitement to the blog
by Oldbuckwilder on Nov 22, 2010 7:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I saw that you took off that fan post rant on Arenas too...
Not much there of interest – and I’m sure it wouldn’t have done much more than degenerated into personal attacks….
So – good job there too Mike.
He's "delightfully cranky"
Earl Borgan. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA.
Next year is always our year.
by wizkhalifa on Nov 22, 2010 8:02 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Blatch Fails to Roll to Hoop
Good call on Blatche’s gaffe on that last play, Mike. However, on thing I noticed a few times in the 4th: After both Hinrich (and I think Thornton) set a pick for Gilbert up top and then rolled, they were wide open en route to a layup. If only Gil had seen them and passed. Instead, on both plays, I believe he kicked it out to the wing for someone to clank a jumper. Given Gil’s outstanding eyesight today (16 assists!), it’s curious that he’s not seeing the roll. Isn’t that exactly how a pick & roll is designed. Makes me wonder if would have even seen Blatche cutting (I’m exaggerating), but still. Sigh.
Honestly
It seems like none of the guards can spot the roll right now. Not sure what the deal is.
Wall does, alley oops to mcgee!
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 22, 2010 2:42 AM EST up reply actions
Blatche
frustrates me more than JaVale. 20 points on 22 shots? Terrible defense on Villanueva. Blatche let him drive right by on that game tying layup. Yea, he had some nice buckets down the stretch but one of those jumpers was a terrible shot and he offset any offensive positives with bad D. When they went zone in overtime, he was unaware of Rip running the baseline and stuck with the man in the post. JaVale had to run and challenge the shot from the opposite side of the lane. Maybe that was a communication error on McGee since Blatche can’t see what’s behind him and everything is JaVale’s fault lol. I still believe we have 2 very talented big men that can be a formidable duo if they continue to work hard and improve. Just wish I would see more effort from Blatche at times. 44 minutes might be too much for him.
McGee's stat line was possibly the best of his career tonight
I missed the game, but looking at the box score, I can’t recall a time when McGee has had numbers like that in a regular season game. 20 points on 9-13 shooting, 16 rebounds (8 offensive), 2 blocked shots and one assist. And 3 turnovers (not horrendous). He’s not just growing up, he’s doing it virtually overnight.
What’s up with the 25 from Villanueva? Somebody played matador there.
When Gil starts hitting those 3’s (he was 1-8 tonight), he’ll be deadly.
JaVale was even better than the box score says
He had a least a couple of blocks that were incorrectly called as goaltends. (And without those bad calls, we would have won this game in regulation.) I think the refs just don’t understand how high he gets. They seem to assume that the only way he could get that much of the ball so long after it leaves the shooter’s hand is if it was already on it’s way down.
Yeah
They may have to get used to his play before he gets those calls.
The referees go into the locker room at half time and after the game and watch the calls on a screen…. so I’m sure they saw that at least ONE of those goal tend calls was a ridiculously bad call – and another goal tend was at least very close. At some point, after they’ve seen that a few times, they’ll stop calling it incorrectly…But until then, I suspect that’s not the last time we’ll see JaVale called incorrectly for goal tending.
He's "delightfully cranky"
gilbert and mcgee
not a fan of Gilbert in this conservative pg mode. it worked well most of the game but Gil makes too many poor decisions with the ball and they are bound to pop up at the wrong times its who he is he’s impulsive as a player it works as a scorer not as a creator for others. I want Gil in scorers assasin mode thats the best Gil we can have. The Pass to Blatche looks like a good decision but its really not when you consider Blatche’s inability to be a clutch player thats not been his role Gil shoulda known calling his own proven number was the best play to make dribble into your pull up. game over
Mcgee was tremendous. I think the only thing he has to work on is controlling his impulse to try those preplanned moves offensively . I think stamina is still somewhat of an issue and is the reason he gets beat on boards occasionally but that area send they diagnosed the asthma has improved tremendously.
He’s doing work on the boards now putting alot of pressure on the defensewith his offensive rebounding . The the shot blocking presence has been telling. You can see player turn away from the painted area now. the Pistons started to just settle for the mid range jumpers unfortunately they were hitting.
I want Gil in scorers assasin mode thats the best Gil we can have.
But last night, with Wall out, they needed a play-maker. Gil’s the best one they have.
I wouldn’t worry too much about some mistakes late in the game… When Wall comes back, he’ll be making most of the decisions – driving to the lane – - – - – - – and Gil will be the one standing in the corner drilling the 3-pointer to win the game.
But you have to admit, it’s nice to have options at PG….
He's "delightfully cranky"
When that last play was happening
I was thinking to myself, what a pretty play it was – until I saw it was Blatche shooting…..
Had that been Wall penetrating, and Gil (or even Young) shooting……….
But I was reading a great point on WaPo – With Blatche standing at the 3-point line, that just INVITED Charlie V to help …. He’s gotta know that helping on Gilbert Arenas is more important than Blatche shooting an uncontested 3-point shot. I mean, Blatche’s career percentage from beyond the arc is less than 25%… It’s a no brainer… If you’re a defender, you leave the 6’11" PF at the 3-point line (unless it’s Dirk Nowitzki) to help defend the All-Star guard who has won many, many games in the last seconds…. There shouldn’t even be a second thought….
On the other hand, had that been Young in the corner (or Hinrich), perhaps his man would NOT have helped, and Gil could have raised up over Hamilton, or continued to the hoop… That play would have looked MUCH different.
He's "delightfully cranky"
Strange
There isn’t more discussion on this. Just checking in now after the game, I expected a firestorm of fire Flip for running a play with Hinrich and Young as decoys and Blatche as the outlet shooter. Just bizarre, had to be a mistake.
Even so, it was a MASSIVE cop out on Arenas’ part. It was not a good pass. Blatche for one of his patented off balance just inside the three point line jumpers? Seriously, give me a break. I didn’t realize when he shed the Agent Zero persona it also meant losing his balls?
With two starters (Wall and Howard) and
a key reserve (Yi) out, it’s hard to win on the road. Hinrich and Thornton will soon be good bench players.
Flip will have very good backcourt soon with lots off flexibility (Wall, Arenas, Hinrich, Young).
Howard should return to action within a week. Maybe Blatche will be more regimented when he returns.
say what?
we should have won that game. did you watch it? like flip said, too many stupid plays down the stretch – by our key guys i might add
by DarrellWalkerFan on Nov 22, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
D-man, I watched the game
We coulda, shoulda, woulda won, but we lost. Why?
1) Arenas isn’t ready for all of those minutes (so Wall being out doesn’t help).
2) Hinrich and Thornton are below average starters, played to form,
and Flip didn’t many good options (given Howard and Wall were out).
3) Armstrong didn’t bring much to the game and Flip didn’t have many
options (given Yi was out).
we lost because we didn't execute down the stretch
you could add lebron wade and bosh to our lineup and if we don’t execute down the stretch we’ll lose.
we had the game in hand with under 5 minutes to go, so please don’t tell me that not having yi was a factor.
your argument #1 speaks to me, as gil was likely a little gassed at the end of the game, but still, your post comes across as:
“we shouldn’t worry about blowing winnable games against bad teams that we have in hand because our key guys repeatedly made dumb mistakes down the stretch because we shouldn’t really ever hope to win on the road unless we have our entire lineup available.”
by DarrellWalkerFan on Nov 23, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
obviously I would have preferred the "W"....
but that was not all that bad. JVM is becoming a player…
Whoohoooo! THE JAVELATOR!
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 22, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
gil really faded down the stretch. he's getting closer though.
glad to see some new folks on this board calling gil out. we need some balance on here.
hinrich bashing is unwarranted. kirk did not lose that game for us last night.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Nov 22, 2010 2:22 PM EST reply actions
it seems to me Icedoc is looking to get into an argument with someone rather than a reasonable discussion
insulting people usually doesnt help any discussion
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 23, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
i like icedoc
there are so many pro gil lunatics on here, it’s nice to have someone with the opposite viewpoint. icedoc takes it way too far, but unlike some of the other gil bashers on here, (1) icedoc says he actually likes gil, (2) he focuses on the hoops, and (3) there is an element of truth in what he says.
i was also talking about jazzy too though. i like what that person has to say.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Nov 23, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
He definitely didn't
Just trying to illustrate that, if you’re going to blame Arenas for his D on Rip, it’s worth noting that Kirk struggled just as much in the overtime.
gil didn't fade down the stretch?
i wasn’t singling you out for hinrich bashing, nor was i really zoned in on arenas’s d – it was more the turnovers – but while we’re at it, defending gil’s defense in OT by saying hinrich didn’t fare any better doesn’t really do much to defend gil. there was a reason why flip switched hinrich onto rip.
i thought gil might have been a little gassed, and i expect he’ll work out the kinks here before long, which is why i said he’s getting closer. and i’m excited about that, but he still struggled at the end of the game last night, and it contributed to the loss.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Nov 23, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Right, I agree
Gil defended Rip poorly in OT. No denying that. And I think you’re right – he was gassed.
It was more just the constant “Gil is the only reason we lost” stuff that icedoc keeps spewing that grinds my gears. No one player ever costs a team a game on his own, especially one that still dropped 19 and 16.
"No one player ever costs a team a game on his own"
How about this game: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199406220HOU.html
My hope is
The Wiz continue to play competitive basketball against the leagues doormats.
Oh look
The sixers are next. That should be another tight one. Only this time, I want McGee to jack up a 3 from the corner to win the game and for Arenas to say it was a good decision. McGee has been hitting them all game.
hahaha
hopefully Wall will be back so he can initiate the final play. If he F’s up, critisism will be milder than it is on Arenas or Blatche.
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 23, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
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