Andrew Sharp: Why the Wizards must void Gilbert's contract
I've had way too many in-person arguments with Andrew over this issue, so I'm just going to post this for y'all's take.
about 2 years ago
Mike Prada
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Shorter Sharp:
Why wait until he’s behind bars? VOID GILBERT’S CONTRACT NOW. Everyone else who says otherwise is crazy. Strawman, strawman; this is a businesscakes.
Not that I don't agree with it
But between the “Jailblazers” Era and Ron Artest’s Punch-A-Fan Night, I think every NBA franchise should be concerned about attracting free agents. D.C. hasn’t been known as a destination spot for All-Star caliber talent.
And I worry when people use the “business argument” because most people hear the word “business” and think “corporation.” The last thing this franchise needs is that negative image (a cold, heartless organization that only cares about the bottom line).
As for the main thrust: Gilbert feels betrayed and is openly musing about playing elsewhere. The Wizards could save some money and try to make some lemonade out of this. The team has been completely taken off track with this ordeal. So yes, in the name of making a clean break and having closure, go ahead and void. Just hope they’ve “lawyered up.”
arenas wanted this
Days before the incident he was musing about how he was being blamed for everything because of the contract. He wanted out of the contract, and he found a way. Now he just be Arenas again, now that he’s been cured of Juwan Howard disease, which has nothing to do with freelancing, turnovers, and a bad shooting percentage, although Gil suffers from all of those too.
by ReturnofBillyJOe on Jan 29, 2010 9:52 AM EST reply actions
Are You Serious?
Arenas pulled the gun stunt because he wanted out of his contract? Arenas doesn’t want the millions of dollars? I know Gilbert is crazy, but he’s not that crazy.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
What did it do for Juwan Howard? Arenas is a joker and everybody was telling him “you’ve got to be serious, you’re Mr. $111 million.” Now he can sign a $10 million contract with Golden State and go back to being the biggest joker on a bad team, the World B. Free of 21st century.
by ReturnofBillyJOe on Jan 29, 2010 10:05 AM EST reply actions
Mr Sharp
Appears incapable of understanding basic legal reasoning. The NBA is one entitey, that has already punished Areans at this time. Attempting to punish him again would be double jeapodry. His argument is … Who cares? This is what I think is moral. Not legal. He should stick to writting drivel…
by zeke5123 on Jan 29, 2010 10:24 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Are you a lawyer?
The NBA and the each of the 30 NBA teams are all different entities. Double jeopardy applies to criminal prosecution. It’s ludicrous to suggest that the NBA suspending someone precludes a contract termination. I would even argue that a contract termination isn’t a punishment.
Further, the specific language in the CBA, Article VI, Section 10 is below. The first point is the “double jeopardy” point everyone has been making that a player cannot be DISCIPLINED twice. The second point makes it explicit that a league suspension does not necessarily preclude a contract termination.
I find it remarkable how may people talk like they know this stuff without even reading it.
“Section 10. One Penalty.
(a) The NBA and a Team shall not discipline a player for the same act or conduct. The NBA’s disciplinary action will preclude or supersede disciplinary action by any Team for the same act or conduct.
(b) Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained in Section 10(a), (i) the same act or conduct by a player may result in both a termination of the player’s Uniform Player Contract by his Team and the suspension of the player by the NBA if the egregious nature of the act or conduct is so lacking in justification as to warrant such double penalty, and (ii) both the NBA and the Team to which a player is traded may impose discipline for a player’s failure to report for a trade in accordance with paragraph 10(d) of the Uniform Player Contract. "
But, of course, now the question is
If choking your coach doesn’t qualify under the “if the egregious nature of the act or conduct is so lacking in justification as to warrant such double penalty” language, then would bringing unloaded guns into the locker room?
I’m not trying to answer that question, but it strikes me as a totally reasonable argument to say no.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
That was not under this CBA
I am only speculating here, since I can’t find the old CBA, but the language under VI.10.b.i is so specific that it would not surprise me if it was a direct result of the Sprewell situation.
Hmm, good point
Forgot about how they changed the language.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Crucial Difference
A big difference between Sprewell, the Artest situation, and anything else that’s been mentioned as precedents, is that Arenas committed a crime. He was punished by the NBA for violating the rules regarding player conduct and guns.
But he also committed a felony and could face jail time—that’s a whole other violation of the contract, and in the eyes of a court or arbitrator, it’s a lot more serious, and easier to prove. I’m not a lawyer, but this seems pretty cut-and-dry.
by Andrew Sharp on Jan 29, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
If I knew, I'd have done it by now
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
The NBA and it's teams are one entity
Otherwise, they’d be in violation of anti-trust law. As it is, no single NBA team can make a unit of production (in this case, a game) without another team. Therefore, their value is defined and created by the league, not the other way around. This is how the league can negotiate contracts that bind all the teams, because they are one entity.
This law is actually under review by the SCOTUS in American Needle v. the NFL. But currently, they are one entity.
As for section 10, arbitrators in the past have viewed this as double jeopardy and have ruled in favor of the players. There is precedent for this, therefore, it seems entirely unlikely they would deviate from precedent.
Definition of "entity"
We’ll see how the Supreme Court rules, but legally speaking they are separate entities with separate ownership. The teams are effectively members of a union, as are the players. That doesn’t make the players a single entity.
All of the above is why a collective bargaining agreement is used.
"double jeapodry"
am so tired of hearing this term try to be used in this situation. It has no relevance at all to the suspension/void issue (now if the wiz tried to suspend him for the first 10 games of next year that would be a different story).
While the suspension is not going to be the cause of the void it is going to be on the factors leading up to it. Compare it to traffic court. Hypothetically lets say I got a speeding ticket and I went to court and received a $50 fine and 3 points on my license. I already have “X” points, the additional 3 points ended up giving me “Y” amount of total points and resulted in a suspension of my license. I would have no legal grounds to protest double jeopardy.
VOID!!!
Except
You are not being prosecuted for the same offense twice. Double Jeopardy would be if you went to court for crime A, received a penalty for it, then three months later went to court for Crime A again, and received another penalty for it.
The fact that a previous crime put you under a probation of sorts and you violated that probation, doesn’t mean you are being tried for a former crime. You violated your probation and are receiving a penalty for that.
my thoughts exactly
(except I would say jeopardy)
The whole Sprewell comparison is goofy, IMO. For one, this is a completely different incident. And two, that argument wouldn’t hold water in any kind of court. That’s like saying “The guy before me didn’t get fined for speeding, why should I?” (OK, a bit oversimplified, but the point is made)
Truthfully, I don’t know if the team should void the contract or now. I wish Leonsis (or whoever) was already in place to make the decision that he’ll ultimately have to live with. I’m just saying that using the Sprewell incident as a reason to not do it is ridiculous. Just because one arbitrator screwed up one ruling years ago, doesn’t mean you should use that as a basis for every occurrence that’s even remotely similar .
Isn't that how precedent works though?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Correct
But if there is precedent, it is highly unlikely to simply overrule it.
Right
Precedent can be overruled, but that doesn’t mean it will be
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
you're right
I guess what I’m saying is that I would HOPE that a different arbitrator would look at, and read into, the entire situation. In other words, Arenas committed a felony, embarrassed a team that had previously, and without provocation, distanced itself from guns. What exactly makes him deserve this contract? And the argument that they would be “depriving him of his livelihood” is absurd. Everyone knows that the minute Arenas hits the street as a free agent, he will be fielding multiple offers, STILL end up getting paid millions, and not to mention have the ability to choose which team he goes to.
In other words, Arenas will come out ahead in the end no matter what. Sure, his image took a hit. But is he is traded or bought out, he still ends up getting an absurd amount of cash from the Wizards without giving them anything in return. And if he’s voided, or bought out, he gets to choose which team (most likely a contender) he wants to go to. And, of course, he could always opt to sign a 1 year deal with that team to gamble on a bigger deal the following year.
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