Briefing: Two overtimes wasn't enough to distract the Wizards
by Jake Whitacre on Jan 16, 2010 7:48 AM EST
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PrintBulls 121, Wizards 119 - Michael Lee, Wizards Insider
The Wizards have now lost 11 games by five points or less this season -- and five by two points or less. These losses have been deflating, but you have to commend Antawn Jamison for the incredible run that he has been on of late. He had 34 points with 18 rebounds, and in the games since Arenas was suspended, he is averaging 29.3 points and 9.7 rebounds with four double-doubles. Jamison, though, was only able to get four points in the the two overtime periods, with Luol Deng smothering him.
Washington Wizards fall in double overtime, 121-119, to Chicago Bulls - Michael Lee, Wizards Insider
Brendan Haywood had 16 points and career-high 20 rebounds, but for the third time this season, he was on the wrong side of video replay review. Having already been called for fouls with less than one second remaining following reviews in losses to Indiana and Memphis, Haywood had to accept another call in the first overtime. With the Wizards leading 112-110, DeShawn Stevenson knocked the ball away from Rose with 25.5 seconds remaining. The official awarded the ball to the Wizards. Haywood knew the ball had bounced off his knee, but was hoping for some good fortune. "I don't need to be in any replays anymore," Haywood said. "When we went to replay, I knew it was their ball. I knew the ball went off my leg. When they stopped the play I thought, 'Hmmm. We're not going to get this.' "
Wizards Edged By Bulls in Double OT - Dave Johnson, CSN Washington
Going forward the Wizards could still use more consistent production from their bench. Earl Boykins did provide a spark points with 8 points, but Young and Andray Blatche combined for only 6 points. Still it was a positive effort from a team that spent most of the week distracted and drained by the Arenas gun case.
Rose leads Bulls over Wizards 121-119 in double OT - Rick Gano, Associated Press
Both Butler and Jamison logged over 55 minutes. But Jamison said Arenas’ problems had no bearing on the team’s efforts Friday night. "It doesn’t matter what’s going on off the court. It just matters what’s going on on the court," Jamison said.
Bulls guard finally stabs in winner in 2nd overtime - Steve Tucker, Chicago Sun Times
Coach Vinny Del Negro said the Bulls ''always are looking for Derrick to attack.'' ''It opens a lot more things up than when we walk it up the court,'' Del Negro said. ''We are going to need all of these guys. ''We went shorter a lot of the time because I wanted to have Luol matched up with [Antawn] Jamison as much as I could. Washington is one of those teams that if those guys get the ball in the right spots, they are tough to stop.''
Rose's shot put the exclamation point on his career-high 37-point night that also featured nine rebounds and six assists. Just as important for a player who once hit a game-winning shot to lead Simeon to a state championship, it lifted a burden that Rose admitted weighed on him. "I missed a bunch (of game-winning shots) last year," Rose said. "For me to hit this one is telling me I came a long way.
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.@ShopAdidas send sum Gil Zeros 2 Andray Blatche, c/o Atlantic City. his old pair drew a deuce & got him kicked off craps table
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I know nobody probably cares, but DeShawn Stevenson is starting. Nick Young back to the bench. Sam Cassell talked w/Young 4 5 mins b4 game.
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Anyone else think Charles Barkley could beat Brad Miller in a race?
Twitter / Truth_About_It
Again with Randy F*cking Foye & the last shot? WHAT THE F*CK!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!!? #FreeMikeJames
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This photo of Gil breaks my heart. http://bit.ly/6T5MuM
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vinny's quote
Washington is one of those teams that if those guys get the ball in the right spots, they are tough to stop.
kind of echoes my thought after the game last night that EJ would have had a way to get the ball to jamison in the right spot in overtime.
it’s tough to get annoyed with flip since he’s doing a commendable job managing the team through all this, but i think it’s fair to say we aren’t any better than we used to be. all we do is pick and roll and there is no ball movement. even with jamison’s magnificent individual play, i’m getting tired of watching.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jan 16, 2010 8:58 AM EST reply actions
last thing
my concluding thought on the gil stuff this morning is that he’s going to be fine. he’ll be playing again next season making several million dollars no matter what. the people most affected by this are going to be the wizards and their fans.
on that note, i’ve been on this site too much lately, become somewhat addicted, and i think i need to back off for a while. keep up the good work jake and mike and keep the discussion lively and intelligent and respectable all you posters (well most of you, some of the quality has diminished lately). later.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jan 16, 2010 9:05 AM EST up reply actions
Utter failure
Apart from all of the day-to-day issues of under-performing and all of the Gil sagas (even before OK Corral), this team needed Blatche, Young and McGee to improve. It hasn’t happpened obviously, and they seem to have regressed. And then the coach than feels compelled to play Butler and Jamison 55 minutes, which is a recipe for injuries.
Arenas will be held accountable for his actions. When will EG be held accountable for missing on all cylinders with this team?
Torn...
I really do not want to trade Antawn!!!! He is amazing. But I also want him to win a championship. Is there any way we can keep him and build around him? If we trade our entire bench for some real players???
I am also going to be so bummed if we get rid of Caron. I know he’s had an off year, but I still believe he will turn it around. And he is such a charitable, nice guy. He will be missed.
As to Gil, I don’t know what to say… some people have tried to suggest that a lot of players bring guns to the locker room (????) and that the Wiz just made this public so they could void his contract. I don’t believe that, esp. because of the way his guns were discovered – after someone left them in the garage where they were discovered by security. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that would mean that 1. no one in Wiz mgmt made it public b/c security was required to do that when they found the guns, and 2. Gil did not turn them over to security as he had claimed. Now, maybe mgmt is being opportunistic in trying to void his contract, but I don’t know what else they could have done to “support Gil.” I just don’t know. But it is very sad, regardless of what the team could have done differently.
Darko before the dawn...
Nice effort against the Bulls, but it only shows the errors of judgment EG has made in NY and AB in particular… no one to really trust on the bench. Four guys playing 50+ minutes.
Foye intrigues me. Can he learn to focus in crunch time and make the pass or hit the shot instead of the crucial turnover? If he can show this skill, well then we should him sign up for a few years, because otherwise his numbers and efficiency over the past few games have been excellent.
While it may be possible to play hardball and void Gil’s contract, I think that would be smarmy on the Wizards part, since the guy made them a pile of money. Buy out the final years for a reasonable price and then let him sign elsewhere, where I am sure he can get at minimum a mid level deal. He will lose a bit, but he won’t be totally destroyed for an act of pure foolishness that has cost him dearly enough.
Off recent efforts, the trade value of AJ, CB and BTH should be quite high, so if you deal them there is no reason you cannot get good draft picks, valuable expirings or young talent in return. BTH and a draft pick to Portland for Oden and Blake could work. CB to Orlando for Gortat and Barnes would too. There are lots of possibilities here, but you have to wonder what sort of authority EG really has to act on them.
i do think this is the most reasonable outcome - the buyout
If Gil can get signed up for a MLE type deal (like Artest – 28M for next 4 years after this year). Gil’s deal pays him roughly $80M after this year….so there is a loss of $50 for Gil – a ton of $.
So lets try to figure out the buyout. Lets say the Wiz split the difference will Gil of the delta – and pay him $25M lump sum…which translates to $32M in present value terms. So in real $$$’s, Gil is out $18M for his total deal – but he doesnt have to fight with the team.
This seems like a good outcome for both sides given the circumstances. The Wiz benefit in that they dont have to be tarnished as the poster child franchise that chose to fight the battle of being the 1st team to void a contract.
Question for Mike or someone else who knows – how would that buyout (in my example $25M lump sum) count against the cap and in what years (ie. do they have to take the entire hit in the year when they pay him?)
here is another take at an angle for a deal
different path – but the same basic premise…that both sides would be best off getting to a deal rather than fighting it to the end…
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/01/16/can-gilbert-arenas-and-wizards-make-a-deal/
another point wrt the knicks and this story
if you are knicks mngt, and can work a deal like this, i think you really have to consider it.
we know they want to sign LBJ. the speculation has been LBJ would also like to go to NY – but wants to go to a place where the pieces are in place to win right away.
we know LBJ likes arenas – and has publicly come out in support of him.
imagine the knicks with arenas and LBJ – depending on the other pieces they could keep around like Lee…they would be real good.
and if I was Gil, what better place to resurrect career than in NY.
the bottom line is both sides should be able to reach a deal
gil will be fine…the team will get some flexibility…and everyone should be able to move on.
They take a hit in the cap and the tax
Equivalent to whatever the buyout is. It’ll stay on the books for as long as the original contract.
ok - but in my scenario that wouldnt be so bad, right?
25M spread over 4 years – so 6M a year on the books.
i do think though that if they did it in a lump sum
that it would count all at once in the year they made the payment.
either way, seems like the better thing for the team would be a deal like the one in the article i linked above….i think they could get that done before the trading deadline – and take someone like larry hughes expiring and the #s work…except this would require Gil to agree to the deal – which i think he should based on where he is.
RamV is right
A buyout would end the contract but it would still count against the salary cap over the length of the contract.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q62
In any case, I agree that Ziller’s solution sounds more realistic to me.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jan 16, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
thanks for that
do u agree that it would be a good deal for the Wiz and Gil? I do in this case.
Also, I think the Knicks would be interested, if for no other reason to help attract LBJ (plus – Gil may have declined – but he is still very good and was getting better by the game)
it might be smart for both sides
As a fan the last thing I want to see is this to get dragged down into a big messy fight in court. And for the Wizards and Arenas it would be a disaster for whichever side loses.
I can see the appeal for a team like the Knicks who probably don’t have a shot at a LBJ, Wade or Bosh type player with the team as it’s currently constructed. They might not with Arenas on the team, but if they lose out in the 2010 sweepstakes, perhaps adding Arenas would still bring some excitement to their offseason.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jan 16, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
this explains it very clearly
a $25M buyout would be spread of next 4 years, and apportioned to the cap pro-rata based on the future year salary ratios.
so probably like 5M, 6M, 6.5M, 7.5M
how they pay it (lump sum) doesnt matter
Right.
One of the best ways to learn the salary cap is reading Coon’s FAQ. Once you figure out how his FAQ works, then you can start reading it from top to bottom. There isn’t better salary cap info on a generic scale out there.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I can answer this althought it's a lot of technical info.
TZ awhile back explained how the Kings cap would be effected by Mikki Moore signing another contract with another team this season back in February of 09.
Basically the set off is small, but depending on how big the contract Gil signed was (let’s say the Mid Level), and based off the calculations that TZ already wrote about, it’s probably likely to be around 2-3 million if Gil gets a Mid-Level.
But, and this is a big but, if you’re another NBA team, why would you want to pony up that kind of cash to Gil after what he’s done to the Wiz organization? I think the Wiz won’t save much in any event because Gil won’t be that valuable to other teams.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Because of what I just said
I think Gil is better off, and the Wiz are too, in just taking back a contract for Gil that expires if the team, along with Gil, can modify his contract given the circumstances.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
agreed
i think it works for both sides – and a team like the knicks are perfect with all of their expiring contracts.
this seems like it could be done fast…if everyone, including Gil, can be realistic about the situation and keep cool heads.
I don't think the Knicks would do any deal for Gil with their expiring contracts
But trading Jeffries & Curry does make a lot of sense.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
yuck
i agree – they may not want to dump the expirings…even the jeffries curry platter isnt so bad for the wiz…as they are only 1 more year and jeffries is serviceable at least
Would you do that if you were the Knicks?
I know I wouldn’t.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
really?
dump jeffries and curry for Gil where Gil agrees up front not to exercise his player option in 2012?
they have jeffries curry on the books for $18M next year – so they essentially trade that for Arenas at same salary, and they are left with one extra year of Arenas in 2011/2012 for 19M.
I would seriously consider it if I were the Knicks
But it would be a tough decision. Arenas would be one full year removed from his knee problems, and he still put up pretty good numbers despite fighting off rust (22 pts, 7 assists, 4 rebs).
Would I rather have Arenas for 2 years & $37 million or Curry/Jeffries for 1 year & $17 mil? If I felt confident Arenas would be on the court for two full seasons (which could be a reasonable assumption) than definitely Arenas.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jan 16, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
my opinion from watching Gils last 10 games before the suspension
is that he was really getting his game back.
the game on the west coast trip against the warriors where he had 45…i think he could have had 60…it looked so easy for him.
yeah
I’m just disappointed we didn’t get to see more of him and his comeback. And now it seems certain he’s played his last game as a Wizard.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jan 16, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
well i agree
given that there are good alternatives for all sides to a deal where he leaves town, i think he will leave town.
and we will get to see his comeback
just for another team…which is ok…i will still root for him
I don't have any stakes in this one way or the other (other than I'm a Kings fan)
On the other hand though, I would prefer Gil to not swing the Western standings if he’s traded out here. I think the worst place for him personally would be New York. It would always be a circus and he could never get away. Then again, they said the same thing about Latrell Sprewell too.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
the other issue here
is the players association wont like this…they will want Gil to fight it out so as not to become a precedent in the CBA renegotiations.
i hope Gil doesnt listen to them
It's going to be a precedent either way
Whether the players association likes it or not, this won’t help the players gain leverage.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
well i have been very critical of grunfeld on this board
lets see if he can make something like this happen. the biggest person who would need to be convinced is Gil.
thats why i think the NY component is so huge – we could sell him hard on NY and Dantoni’s offense.
we would be asking Gil
to rather than fighting it out with the team over the contract – 2 give up the last 2 years and $41M of his deal.
which if he plays well in NY, he could probably almost earn back over time.
well Grunfeld's hard line approach would make more sense
Threaten Arenas with voiding the contract and then negotiate a settlement. I just can’t see a serious attempt a voiding the contract ends up as anything but a big, unfortunate mess.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jan 16, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
my thoughts exactly
he had to come out hardball like that for negotiating power…but then work a deal
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