Today's trade idea: Mike James, DeShawn Stevenson and Javaris Crittenton to Indiana for Troy Murphy and Travis Diener.
Jake and I have been Tweeting a trade idea a day, and this is my idea for today. I figure it's best to put these ideas here as well for discussion each day. I usually think about these for less than a minute, so they're pretty rough on the edges and may be overly lopsided either way.
Past ideas:
-7/6: DeShawn Stevenson and Javaris Crittenton or Nick Young to Dallas for Erick Dampier and JJ Barea.
-7/3: Mike Miller and Andray Blatche to Houston Shane Battier and Brian Cook (after 8/24)
-7/2: Mike Miller, DeShawn Stevenson and Javaris Crittenton to Philadelphia for Samuel Dalembert and Marreese Speights (after 8/24)
-7/1: DeShawn Stevenson to Toronto for Kris Humphries
-6/30: Mike James and Nick Young to Houston for Carl Landry and Chuck Hayes
-6/29: Mike James and Javaris Crittenton to Indiana for Jeff Foster and Travis Diener.
-6/26: JaVale McGee, Mike Miller, Nick Young and Mike James to Toronto for Chris Bosh
over 2 years ago
Mike Prada
65 comments
0 recs |
Comments
I’m sorry, but nobody is going to take Deshawn AND Mike James. I know James has the expiring contract that will allure a few teams, but those teams will be instantly turned off by an overpaid, fading Stevenson with multiple years left on his contract.
He has the same number of years left as Murphy, except for three times less
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
That’s true, but to me that just means that the Wizards would be dumb to take Murphy and the Pacers would be even dumber to take Stevenson (yes, I rate Murphy a hair or so better than Stevenson).
I was just making that argument directly based on Stevenson’s trade value, not on what anyone would/could give us in return. I don’t think anyone in the league would be convinced to take Stevenson unless we threw in a valued commodity, i.e. Jamison, Butler, or maybe McGee+Young. I don’t think James’ expiring contract plus Crittenton’s potential to be a second-tier PG in a few years would be enough to smuggle Stevenson onto that truck.
This trade idea is great for the Wizards
I’d love to have two more 3 point snipers coming off the bench and one that is a great rebounder too. That trade would solidify us as the deepest team in the Eastern Conference.
Unfortunately, Indiana’s front office would have to be made up of complete idiots for them to ever do a trade like this. I doubt they would get too excited over bringing in three below average guards for a 20-10 guy and a decent 3-point specialist, although Javaris has some potential. The other two are just straight up done.
Troy Murphy is a 20/10 guy?
Most of Indiana’s motivation would be to rid themselves of Troy’s awful contract. They’re bleeding money and have to find time for their two recent draft picks (Hansbrough and Hibbert). Plus, they still have Foster.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Not that the justification is necessarily enough
But I figure it’s more about clearing some long-term salary for them when they are bleeding money than improving their on-court product.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Mike, What is Your Plan for 2010-11?
You do realize that by taking on Murphy’s huge contract for 2010-11, we are essentially saying goodbye to either Brendan Haywood, or both Mike Miller and Randy Foye. After this trade, you will have approximately $61 million in 2010-11 salary committed to players excluding Brendan Haywood (figure about $8.5 million first year salary to keep), Randy Foye (figure about $5.5 million), Mike Miller (figure about $5.5 million), and Dominic McGuire ($1 million qualifying offer should do it). And should I assume that you want to resign Diener? The luxury tax threshold is likely to go down this season from $71 million, and might go down again next season, depending on the economy.
Unless you think Abe is going into the luxury tax again that season, I don’t see how this trade helps us down the road.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
The plan would be to pay the tax, yes
With money earned from our rebound season and playoff run.
Also, I don’t care about Diener and I don’t think it’s so necessary to keep both Foye and Miller.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
But My Point Is
If you don’t pay the tax, then you can afford to keep neither Miller nor Foye! Unless, that is, you give up Haywood. Keeping one or the other after resigning Haywood and McGuire puts you about $5.5 million into the tax (or $11 million, which is probably how Abe views it).
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Again, sure, yes
Keep in mind though that it’s pretty hard to come up with a trade a day for a month or so if you preclude it only to those that keep us under the tax going forward.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
For Sure
I didn’t mean to be overly critical, I just wasn’t sure if you had thought of those ramifications.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Yeah
That’s why I’m going to do a pros/cons thing going forward, since clearly several of these trades are infeasible for different reasons.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Including the luxury tax problem
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I had a bad dream
In which Taser got traded to the Suns. Let’s hope that doesn’t happen…
Anyway, Bird does this trade if Indiana doesn’t think it’s going to contend in the next couple years and thus wants to shed Troy’s crappy contract. It would definitely mean less minutes for Blatche, but hey, that might not be a bad thing. I guess the question is if WE want to take on Troy’s contract…
Getting buckets since 2003.
I like
the trade for this year. I don’t know about going forward. Murphy is definitely big-bodied rebounder. But he isn’t exactly a paint-troller. I wonder what AJ would think of this. Isn’t Murphy the reason Golden State found him expendable? Ha!
Does anyone have the skinny on Chris Mihm in Memphis? I wonder if he’d be available?
Mihm's no better than Jason Collins
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I think in the future
I’m going to put up a quick list of pros and cons for each move to help guide discussion. Here’s what I’d do for this proposal.
PROS for us:
-Murphy is an outstanding rebounder and his offensive game still fits in with Flip Saunders
-Getting rid of Stevenson and James solves the logjam in the backcourt and gets rid of deadweight
-Murphy would be the best third big in the Eastern Conference
CONS for us:
-Murphy’s contract sucks
-His numbers are a bit inflated due to Indiana’s fast pace
-He isn’t a good defender and will steal minutes from Blatche/McGee
PROS for Indiana
-It saves them money going forward
-They free minutes for Hibbert and Hansbrough
CONS for Indiana
-They don’t get anyone who can help them much this year
-Murphy is their best frontcourt player
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I think the point is made.
Troy’s not a big enough upgrade in the frountcourt to make his contract worthwhile. We can do better.
Yeah
I’m starting to hate my own trade proposal more and more as the day goes along.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Based on what we've been hearing from Ernie
And, based on the moves done so far (saving money, selling picks, etc…) I don’t think this trade has a chance…
I like Troy Murphy as a player, but not at that price.
Plus, I think MIke James’ expiring contract will be worth much more at the Trade Deadline; as teams fall out of the Playoff race, and look to re-tool quickly by obtaining expiring contracts so they can go after 2010 Free Agents.
However – I did like your Mike James and Javaris Crittenton to Indiana for Jeff Foster and Travis Diener trade idea.
Foster is a very good defender and a tremendous rebounder. Plus he costs much less than Murphy, doesn’t require the ball to score, is a much better defender (especially good defending the PnR), and he can play Center or PF (Murphy is pretty much just a PF). We wouldn’t have to give up much…. AND he has a lower salary than Murphy.
Indiana has Hansborough and Hibbert, their two big men of the future; so I could see them parting ways with Foster. . . Hibbert was their starting Center by the middle of last year, so if they lose Rasho Nesterovic to Free Agency, they’d have to pick up someone to backup Hibbert.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I definitely think Indiana is a good trading partner
Because they have several decent third bigs playing as first or second bigs in place of their (now) two young bigs.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
same could be
said about Portland. You’d think between Frye, Shavlik Randolph, Lafraentz, and Pryzbilla, not to mention the indominable Michael Ruffin, that they would be willing to give up some bigs. I personally like Pryzbilla out of that mix.
LaFrentz can't play anymore (literally)
Frye’s a free agent, Randolph and Ruffin suck and Pryzbilla is Oden insurance.
Portland’s looking for a big, not shopping them.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I figured
with Aldridge and Oden entrenched, and having drafted 2 bigs, they may be looking to thin the herd a little. But yeah, I guess after a closer look it doesn’t make much sense. They are looking to jump to the upper echelon this year, so they’ll keep all the talent they have.
Portland will only have one of those players (the good one) on their roster when the season starts.
Feel free to pick up the others in free agency.
I think we should just em them and play em together, chicken fight style. I guess Javaris would have to be on the bottom with DS’ back.
by les boulez bomber on Jul 7, 2009 5:06 PM EDT reply actions
golden state
would a trade of james for turiaf work? turiaf’s contract runs thru 2011/12, with the last year a player option. the amount payed to him isn’t bad either. it’s about 4 mil per year. it probably wouldn’t affect the signing of haywood and/or foye/miller. turiaf defends ok and is energetic. combine this with a signing of rasho for one year and our frontcourt could be set for next season.
I was saving a variation of that trade for another day
So yes, I think it’s worth discussing.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Why on Earth
would we agree to give Haywood $10mil/yr as you assumed? Yes, he’s a 7-footer who has the ability to body-up some of the best post players in the league and has shown some recent offensive competence, but in my opinion offering that contract would be a gross error on the part of the Wizards.
1. Haywood will be 30 years old (about to turn 31 that season) so he doesn’t really have upside at this point in his career.
2. He is coming off a serious injury (though this may be a minor point if he plays all of 2009-10 healthy).
3. He’s just not that good. For a 7-footer he has never averaged even EIGHT rebounds per game. Eight!!!! And he has only averaged double-digits in points-per-game once (10.6 — career high). At best he’s our 4th best player, and with Foye/Miller he may be as low as 7th.
When you combine reasons 1, 2, and 3 you get a mediocre performer with no realistic upside coming off a serious injury. PLEASE Ernie, do not make the same mistake you made with Etan. I’m a big Haywood fan and would definitely like for the Wizards to keep him….for around the MLE. But once you start paying him like an all-star you are seriously hurting the team by way of misallocation of resources. He’s a role player, make sure you pay him like one — or let him walk.
side note — nice work with all the trade ideas!
i would be ok with paying haywood 8 mil per year for about 3-4 years.
maybe wwe could sign him to one of those decending contracts.
I've been thinking about this a lot
I think Haywood is a good deal better than you’re giving him credit for. I also agree with you that we shouldn’t be paying him $8-10 mil for 3-4 years. The length of the contract is the real concern. Brendan is going to be 31, so he’s going to want a looong contract.
Talent-wise, I think he’s an okay starting center (and there aren’t a lot of those). I think he’ll demand $8-10 mil, and will get it from us or from someone else. I think he’s worth those dollars.
Problem is, we’ve got this guy Javale who, within 4 years, all of us on these boards are expecting to see fighting for a spot on the All-Star team. He isn’t going to be ready to start this year, and he may not be all that ready to start next year. But 2 years from now? 3 years? By then he’s either our starter or else he’s leaving via trade or free agency.
So looking down the road, if both Brendan and Javale have good years this year, we’re going to have a supremely tough choice around this time next year. Give Brendan the contract he deserves, and we’re setting ourselves up to have several years locked up in an $8-10 mil aging backup center. Let him walk instead and all of a sudden it’s sink-or-swim for Javale and our front line gets weaker.
That’s a debate for next summer, I’m sure — there are still a ton of variables to be worked out (such as how they each progress this year). But it has some bearing now, because I really don’t think we should be assuming that Brendan gets resigned for a hefty contract next year. Unless Javale is a flop, I think we’re going to be in a spot where the smartest front office move will be letting BH get his payday elsewhere.
I think
we need to see how this year goes. I have been one of Brendan’s critics on here, (and have learned to pick my battles regarding him, hence the “uh-oh”). I do think Haywood is a solid center, a 7 footer with strength and length – something not too prevalent these days. I also think he looked his best coming off the injury this year. (Though that could have been a result of the center play I had seen from the team the rest of the year). My point is, he gives you a legit pivot center who isn’t easily moved out of the middle, can affect shots on the defensive end, and can clean up garbage on offense. So, if he plays like he has the past 2 years, I say signing him to 8-10 mil/yr is a no brainer. No matter how long. He’s not overly athletic, so there’s not much for him to lose in that area. As long as he stays healthy and in shape, he will be an NBA player into his late 30’s at least.
As for McGee, someone on here posted mentioned something that intrigued me. When the Spurs drafted Duncan, I figured he’s play PF until the Admiral retired, then take over the pivot. But they realized his abilities were better served as an offensive force, one that would provide a constant size mismatch at the PF spot. So they kept him there, and kept bringing in centers to concentrate on post defense and rebounding. Could we do that with McGee and Haywood?
The only one I do not like
Is the Bosh trade. We are losing more then we are gaining just by getting rid of McGee. I think it is a terrible idea to get rid of him before we even gave him a chance to fully develop. That would leave us with Bosh, Jameson, Blatche, Haywood? We still only would have 4 true big men, and sitting in the same position we are in now with 8 gaurds and 4 big men with lack of depth at PF and C.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
I do like the Battier trade however.
That would be a steal for us, but I would imagine it would take more to get a player like Battier. He really stepped up the last year or 2 and would be a great fit in our offense. But that trade looks like it needs more.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
I like the Battier trade as well, but with the Rockets in flux, would they be willing to part with Battier? And you figure that a lot some of the guys you see on the RealGM rosters won’t be making their respective teams and we can pick through the detritus for a backup 3rd string center or power forward.
Your meme here.
Confusing
“…part with Battier?”
If that trade were to occur, you figure that a lot of the same guys you see on the RealGM rosters won’t be making their respective teams and we can pick through the detritus for a backup 3rd string center or power forward.
(The picking up a backup center or pf sounded like an argument against the trade, it wasn’t to be an argument for the trade.)
Your meme here.
Bosh/Jamison/Blatche/Haywood>>>>Jamison/Blatche/Haywood/McGee
We could probably pick up a good big for cheap who is ring chasing anyway.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I agree
It is, but getting rid of McGee seems so hard to do, doesn’t it? Just dump a guy with so much upside in his game. I like the winning now mentality by getting Bosh, don’t get me wrong. But I think depth is nearly as big of a problem as not having that “one” guy at PF or C.
I noticed all the DeJuan Blair talk recently, and I was RIGHT there with you when it came to our 2nd round pick. Getting him would have helped so much in the depth department, and I think a few solid back-ups is what we need most. Players to compliment each other, you know?
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
McGee should be untouchable IMO
The guy obviously can play and maybe he’ll never be nearly as good as Bosh, but I’d rather live and die on that potential.
There is that chance for greatness.
Just gotta hope he keeps improving.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
I may have said this at the time
but I don’t see Houston giving up Landry AND Hayes, particularly since they just lost Artest and may not have Yao for a full season, if ever again.
I think the Indiana trade is a decent one, though Travis Diener does nothing for me. Murphy could be interesting in Flip Saunders’ system.
The Philadelphia trade also intrigues me, as they would get a guy who already knows EJ’s system, a developing “true” point guard (which they currently don’t have), and I think Mike Miller could handle being a guard in EJ’s offense, particularly since he picked up his passing last year. They seem to be committed to Speights, though, at least for another year or two, and I’m afraid Dalembert might end up taking too many minutes away from McGee, but otherwise I think it’s a solid idea.
Now writing for Ridiculous Upside, now with more draft coverage.
The Troy Murphy Indiana trade I mean, if that wasn't obvious.
I like Jeff Foster, but Murphy probably fits better. Then again, he’d also likely expect to start at PF, and we all know (mostly because I keep saying it) that Jamison doesn’t want to move down, and doing that would require Butler to move down as well anyway, and that didn’t work either.
Now writing for Ridiculous Upside, now with more draft coverage.
Guys
Lots of Haywood talk creeping in. I’ve asserted his underratedness too much to make the effort again, so I won’t go into that yet. Suffice to say, long-time readers can make the case for me (nate33, where are you?).
As far as his free agent status: For those who are suggesting letting him walk if he asks for too much, you have to remember that the NBA is not a true marketplace. You can’t just take the 10 million or whatever that you would have given to Haywood and give it to a different free agent center. You’re constrained by the cap, and the Wizards won’t be far enough underneath it to offer $10 million annually to anyone else. You’re going to have replace Haywood’s salary slot with someone making MLE money or less. Looking at the available options (which I listed either here or in another thread), there isn’t really anyone who can give us equal contributions to Haywood that will take the MLE. The only guy who may come close is Joel Pryzbilla, and that’s only if he doesn’t exercise his early termination clause in his contract.
As far as McGee being ready to be the starting center: I doubt it. He’s only 21 now and bigs take a while to develop into true all-around guys. Even if you sign Haywood to a four- or five-year deal, McGee will only be 26 when Haywood’s contract expires. If McGee improves enough to steal Haywood’s job, he will, and Haywood can transition into a backup. You can afford to tie up a lot of money to your center position better than any other position. I also don’t think Haywood is “aging” by any means. He may be 30, but he doesn’t have a lot of wear and tear on him due to limited minutes, and his game is predicated on smarts over athleticism anyway.
That doesn’t mean bet against yourself to keep him, but I’d rather overpay him a little than lose him for nothing.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 8, 2009 9:21 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Seriously, There Should be a Brendan Haywood Section on the Blog FAQ
Thanks again for making this point, Prada. If we want to compete for a championship past this upcoming season, we will either need to prepare ourselves to resign Haywood or figure out a way to trade for somebody that can give us all of the things Haywood gives us, but for less than $8 million per season. This is why I suggested these trades, it’s not because I want us to suck or have a man-crush on Brad Miller. Depending on the parameters that Abe sets for Ernie to deal with, we need to prepare ourselves for the possibility of a salary dump before the end of the season.
Paying the tax this season is one thing, expecting Abe to do it two seasons in a row in a terrible economy is something else. We aren’t the Mark Cuban-owned Dallas Mavericks and we aren’t the Isaiah Thomas-run New York Knicks. We have to be smart and frugal with our roster or we risk jeopardizing everthing that Ernie has built so far. I think it is time we all got our heads out of the clouds and started being realistic about the future of this team. The luxury tax threshold has already fallen $1.6 million this season. Will it fall again? It is very possible, so we shouldn’t fool ourselves into thinking that Marcus Camby or Antonio McDyess is going to be walking through that door. At this point, we should be so lucky as to get a Rasho Nesterovic.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
The only reason I suggested letting him walk
was purely from a financial standpoint….
All the posts I’ve seen about trading for expiring contracts have been suggested so as to get the Wizards below an anticipated $70-$71 Million Luxury Tax….
By this time next year, the League may be staring at a $60 – $65 Million Luxury Tax cap.
Teams like the Knicks (who placed all their eggs in one Lebron/Wade basket) will be devastated if the Tax level is at $60 Million …. They’ve predicated their entire future on the fact that they could offer max contracts to two big time Free Agents (like LeBron and Dwyane Wade).
It’s obvious that the Wizards have made moves (Miller/Foye trade, Selling the 2nd round pick, etc…) that provide financial flexibility for not only this season, but next…. But with the new Tax projection for the 2010-11 season, that “flexibility” may have just disappeared….
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
All these players have to land somewhere
a) Prices for FAs that aren’t in the very top tier will go down
b) Team payroll disparities will balloon (and parity will suffer)
c) A lot of FAs will get offered less money than they had hoped and will look for 1-2 year deals.
by MR on Jul 8, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I Think You'll See
That if you re-read my post, I fully understand the financial point you are standing on. That is why we need to understand what to do with Haywood. We either need to make room for him (let both Foye and Miller go?) or find somebody that can do all the things he does for less money and trade for him.
The good news is, like MR points out above, every other team is going to be in the same boat. The bad news is, also like MR points out, there will be some teams that will still spend lots of money. We probably won’t be one of them.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
There will be some tough decisions a year from now...
But let’s see what happens during the coming season before speculating too much. We really don’t know a lot of answers at this point as to who will stay healthy and what sort of chemistry there will be in court in Flip’s system and so on…
Things have a way of sorting themselves out … hopefully we will have a much better fix on the keepers by the turn of the year.
there is way
too much talk about NEXT year. Let’s get through THIS year first. But as far as the notion that we shouldn’t trade Haywood, or let him walk, that’s ridiculous. Like I said before, NO ONE on this team should be considered untouchable.
by CJHutch on Jul 9, 2009 12:46 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
You Need to Realize
That it is unfair to criticize decisions by Ernie Grunfeld until you attempt to walk a mile in his moccasins. This is what I am trying to do, to think like a GM. It is part of the fun of contributing to a blog like this one.
Once you approach it from this perspective, then you realize that what we decide to do next season will have a big impact on what we do this season. Therefore, I don’t think it is premature to plan for 2010. Especially if the goal is to win a championship.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
If you're tired about the talk about next year
Write FanPosts talking about this year.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
You are
both right. It just seemed like we were moving on to next year already. Yes, you always need to plan ahead. But we won’t know what we’re going to do for sure until the storyline for this year plays out.
Also, I don’t know how else to put this out there, but whoever is sending me the ‘Friendly Reminders’ to use “rec” instead of saying +1 ……I Can’t Do It. My computer will not allow me to. But I will stop saying +1 to keep from annoying the masses.
by CJHutch on Jul 9, 2009 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I sent it
All warnings come from the moderators.
What’s wrong with your computer? Can you send me an e-mail with your operating system and Internet provider so I can send it on to support?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

















