Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Top Ten College Football Recruits for 2013

2008/09 Player Evaluation: JaVale McGee


Previously: Oleksiy Pecherov, Juan DIxon, Etan Thomas, Javaris Crittenton.

STATS

Per-game: 15.2 minutes, 6.5 points, 3.9 rebounds, 1 block

Per-36 minutes: 15.4 points, 9.3 rebounds, 2.4 blocks

Percentages: 49.4 FG%, 66% FT%, 53.4 TS%

Advanced (explanations): 17 PER, 15.1 REB%, 11.7 TO%, 20.7 USG%, 107 ORtg, 110 DRtg, 2 WSAA (win score above average)

Star-divide

Mike Prada: JaVale McGee was absolutely fantastic as a rookie, exceeding all our wildest expectations and making a lot of us (including myself) feel stupid for doubting whether there was any ability in his lanky frame.  Unfortunately, McGee's splended season left just as many questions as answers, due mostly to the mismanagement of his minutes by Ed Tapscott and the long-term roster imbalance going forward.

Jake, Truth and Rook collectively do a great job of summing up JaVale's season below, so I won't go into too much detail there.  He clearly demonstrated that he has the potential to be an absolute force on both ends, provided he learns how to play.  The last clause of that sentence is best evidenced by his dreadful on/off numbers.  According to 82games.com, the Wizards were outscored by nearly 13 points per 100 possessions with JaVale in the game.  That probably is one reason why he only played about 15 minutes a contest.

But, you know what, that's okay when you're limping to a 19-win season anyway.  McGee is a project.  Sure, he's already 21 (look how ridiculous that sounds), but he's also a late-bloomer that is still growing into his body and has spent most of his career playing as a small or power forward.  He's so physically unique that he doesn't really have a handle on what his own body can do.  After draft day 2008, I hated the pick because I didn't like that we drafted another project instead of trying to get a contributor that could play a role right away for a small price, but a project with tons of upside becomes preferable when you fade into oblivion like the Wizards did last year.  Surely Ernie Grunfeld didn't plan on the Wizards winning 19 games, but the pick of McGee certainly now looks like a great investment into the team's future. 

That's why it was so frustrating to see him play so little under Ed Tapscott.  We rail on here all the time about Eddie Jordan's poor development of our young players, but to his credit, he saw he had something in McGee and gave him the necessary time.  McGee's best month of the season clearly was November, when EJ was still the coach.  He got more minutes than any other month (20.1 per game), shot a high percentage and made his biggest difference on the glass and on defense.  For some reason, despite showing a ton of promise in November, he never topped more than 18 minutes a contest in any month going forward.  He also picked up seven DNP-CDs, which is pretty unacceptable for a team that is both going nowhere and hit with a ton of injuries.  It got so bad that he got just 11 minutes in a game against Chicago in December despite blocking three shots in that time while playing against the legendary Aaron Gray.

The arguments for not playing McGee go along these lines: 1) he makes too many mistakes and is too weak to warrant big minutes; 2) we don't want to hurt his confidence by setting him up to fail; and 3) you can learn a lot by practicing and watching anyway.  In response to the first argument, the Wizards were 19-63, not 63-19.  The games McGee could conceivably "cost" were not important ones anyway.  Ed Tapscott tried to frame the McGee issue in terms of of effort, morphing it into something about not destroying "the fabric of the team."  The only problem with this line of thinking is that McGee isn't a loafer, to the best of my knowledge.  He may be ridiculously out of control and he may lack concentration, but you can't tell me he doesn't try hard.  

The second argument may hold some water if it wasn't being made against McGee specifically.  As mentioned earlier, McGee's biggest problem is not confidence, it's awkwardness.  He's still learning how to best use his late-blooming body, which is now suited for playing inside rather than outside.  To learn best, he needs more in-game practice to hone those instincts against NBA-quality competition.  Last year was the perfect chance to develop those, when the actual stakes (in terms of wins and losses) were non-existant.  Going forward, the stakes become even higher.  

The third argument is one that has a bit of merit.  It's true, there's a lot to development we don't see, and watching can help sometimes.  Practice is also a major place to develop that none of us are really able to see.  However, that doesn't mean that the coach and player shouldn't also complement that experience with in-game experiences.  More in-game experience means more chances to learn lessons that are actually meaningful.  All those times that McGee gets steamrolled by bigger players can also be motivation for McGee to really bulk up down the road.  He had far too few of those experiences last season.  

Finally, the last unanswered question has to do with what McGee's rookie season means for the long-term future of both him and Andray Blatche.  Blatche and McGee are both extremely talented players with vastly different skill sets, but were pretty terrible playing with each other last year.  The Blatche/McGee player pair had an on/off rating of -7.8 last year.  The only players with which Blatche was worse were Mike James and Javaris Crittenton.  Without any other reserves in the frontcourt, we're probably going to have to see those two play together again.  I'm worried because, for all the talk about how Blatche belongs as a power forward because his size and skill set is prototypical for that position, Blatche has historically been pretty bad as a power forward.  This season, Blatche had a PER of 19.6 as a center, compared to 12.9 at power forward and 10.3 at small forward.  McGee belongs inside, so that leaves Blatche to play the perimeter, where he too often commits terrible turnovers, shoots poor jumpers and stops rebounding.  Either the two need to figure it out or one has to be dealt, because they have a ways to go before they become a viable tandem.   

The bottom line, though, is that these problems with McGee are good ones to have because they all result from him exceeding expectations last year.  McGee deserves a shot at minutes next year and probably will get it because of the loss of Darius Songaila.

JakeTheSnake: When I'm evaluating a project, there's three things that I'm looking for to determine whether or not they'll pan out.

1. Is the project's name Kwame Brown?  I don't think I need to explain this one.

2. Has the project ever been called "The Next Larry Bird?"  This is even worst than getting stuck with "The Next Michael Jordan" tag.  At least some of those guys went on to have decent careers.  Unless you count Dirk Nowitzki (who I don't remember being compared to Bird until after he was drafted), I don't think there's really anyone that's even gone on to have a solid career in the NBA.

3. Can they be productive on the court right now?
  I know, with a project it's all about what they can do later down the road, but at least for me, I'd like to see that the project is capable of doing something productive on an NBA basketball court before I'm sold that they can be something good.

Thankfully, JaVale proved over and over again this season that he can do some quality things when he's on the basketball floor.  His SCHOENE projections are still murky, but at least the worst case comparisons are of players that were able to hang around the NBA for a decent amount of time.

I'm confident that he'll project closer to best case scenario than the worst one, based on nothing more than being a Wizards fan and having little else to have hope in.  But seriously, he seems to have all the skills necessary to be a good big man in this league, whether it be at the 4 or the 5.  My only concern going forward is whether he'll be able to bulk up so he can play a little more physically with his opponents.  At this point in his career he's still relying more on his jumping abilities to snag rebounds than boxing out.  He's also still a very poor screener, which hurts his ability to get good looks near the basket and create opportunities for others.  And as we all know, the more physical centers in the league can still move him around quite easily.

There's still a lot of work that needs to be done, but I'm glad that I was able to see that JaVale is capable of doing some good things on the basketball floor.  As he continues to grow, I know the good will continue to make itself more and more evident as he works on diminishing his weaknesses.

Truthaboutit: I've long thought that it was Ernie Grunfeld who made me eat crow after NBA Draft night 2008. But really, it was JaVale McGee. Ok, Grunfeld had big hand in serving what was fed to me. That's why he's the general manager with a team of trusted scouts and we are the blogger/fan people. But it was JaVale McGee who made the meal, proving us all wrong.

On that June 26 evening, positive comments about McGee were virtually non-existent. I was immediately calling him Patrick O'Bryant Part Deux, but later calmed down, thinking that I'd found some sort of positive in his bloodline.

Still, the next day, over 55% of us (on Bullets Forever) were giving the Wizards' draft a D or an F (the sale of Billy Walker to the Celtics also having some effect on opinions). We all wanted a player who we thought could come in and contribute right away ... a Darrell Arthur, a Mario Chalmers. Those guys had decent rookie seasons, especially Chalmers who was voted second team all-rookie, but I'm glad we got the 7'1" kid (in socks) with helicopter arms, pogo stick hops, and a willingness to hustle.

When initially assessing McGee's season, most are probably thinking, "Aww man, McGee should have played a LOT more ... that damn Ed Tapscott, and to some extent, Eddie Jordan. How DARE they play the likes of Darius Songaila or Etan Thomas (when healthy) over McGee?"

Well yea, Epic Vale aka The Choppa aka Lemon Head could have played more, and I wouldn't have minded. But c'mon guys ... 1) There are many things the coaching staff observes beyond the games which we aren't privy too, and fans don't always respect that enough; 2) McGee was getting pushed around in the paint, a lot. You can't just throw a guy into the fire and let him get burned over and over again. McGee did not have NBA conditioning. His high energy was better released in spurts, not necessarily all at once; and 3) Playing time is great, but believe it or not, many things can also be learned by observing from the bench ... especially by a guy new to the league.

With McGee, we've gone from assumed draft night bust to a piece that's fairly close to untouchable (and now right back in the draft, 13 picks higher, and yearning for the same need of immediate veteran help and not another project). We're a fickle bunch, aren't we?

The positives we take are that after receiving more playing time than expected, McGee is ahead of schedule. The two biggest areas he needs to work on is strength and feel for the game .... commodities easily earned with time served. All we can hope for is that the kid continues to stay hungry, turning all that potential into a force to be reckoned with.

Rook6980: So what do I most remember about JaVale McGee's rookie season?  The Dunks!

Even with limited playing time, JaVale McGee managed to average just over a dunk a game. He was 29th in the League in Dunks with 80; behind guys like Shaq (180), Dwight Howard (202) and LeBron James (128), but also behind fellow rookies Brook Lopez (130), Greg Oden (99), Jason Thompson (91), and Marreese Speights (81). But to be fair, McGee played fewer minutes than those other rookies.  Perhaps a better gauge of McGee's dunkage is that he finished 8th in the League in Dunks per minute in 14.65 minutes. 
 
As a big man, at least on Offense, JaVale seems to "get it." He took most of his shots inside (62% of his shots from inside) with a shooting percentage of 63%.  That compares favorably to Dwight Howard, who shot 83% of his attempts inside and had a shooting percentage of 62% on those inside shots.  JaVale's got much better footwork and post moves than I was led to believe. He's also got pretty good hands, and a fairly good handle for a big man. When JaVale did venture outside the lane, he didn't fare as well.  Although he looks like he has a nice jump shot, with good mechanics, he hit a dismal 26% of 2-point jump shots; but because he has such good mechanics, it's only a matter of time (and repetitions) before that jumper becomes a steady weapon.
 
Some have compared him to Dwight Howard when he first came into the League, and perhaps that is one model that JaVale can follow.  Hit the weight room, and shoot 80-85% of his shots from inside. But I like the fact that he has that nice touch from outside, and I feel like he actually may be ahead of Dwight's development in that regard.

Defensively, JaVale was a mixed bag. He blocked a lot of shots. Spectacular blocks. But he was equally spectacular flying through the air after going for pump fakes. His slim frame allowed bigger, stronger players to back him down, and he was frequently out of position on Defense.

JaVale needs to add muscle and strength, work on that mid-range jump shot and continue to get better with his defensive awareness. The tools are all there. The sky's the limit. Now it's all up to McGee.

Comment 65 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

as soon as EJ was fired and we decided to punt the rest of the season (by not bring in Avery Johnson to install a new defensive philosophy) the number one priority of this season should have been to develop and showcase Mcgee by any means neccesary.

the mismanagement of his minutes by Ed Tapscott

to say the verrrrrry least…. “Hey team, we are 17-58 going into April. Lets give the best young talent this team has seen in years 10 mpg and 1 dnp/cd. Yeah, thats the ticket.”

(those numbers are slightly skewed with Tapscott then deciding to play him 29 minutes the last game of the season. The first time he had played 20+ minutes in 23 games.)

portland calls tommorrow and offers us greg oden for javale mcgee straight up. What is your answer??

Memphis with Hasheem Thabeet??

by dt3 on Jul 6, 2009 6:43 PM EDT reply actions  

portland calls tommorrow and offers us greg oden for javale mcgee straight up. What is your answer?? “NO”

Memphis with Hasheem Thabeet?? and “Hell NO”

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Jul 6, 2009 6:59 PM EDT reply actions  

If Memphis calls with Thabeet...

You hang up. Immediately.

The Washington Wizards: providing career scoring nights for unknown opposing bench players since 2004.

by mamemimo on Jul 6, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

No you don't

You laugh and laugh and laugh. Then you say, “I’m sorry, you must have the wrong number.” THEN you hang up.

No appreciation of comedy…

by sierradave on Jul 6, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or do you say

… we’ll give you Nick Young and McGee for OJ Mayo and Thabeet?

I wouldn’t … but just throwing that out there.

Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.

by Kyle Weidie on Jul 6, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

All of you are Wrong

You ask if Gasol is available, then you get Dumars on the line and see if you can convince Chris Wallace to take Kwame back instead of McGee.

Getting buckets since 2003.

by Icantfeelmyface on Jul 6, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Portland won't call

Don’t worry yourselves about it.

by Sabonis4Ever on Jul 7, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Loved the video

Unfortunately my eye kept being drawn to the game score in all the clips. Kind of dampened the excitement.

by MR on Jul 6, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice writeup, everyone

though Prada, I disagree that McGee “belongs” inside. If the team plays him alongside Blatche, I think Blatche should be played at center (to basically force him to stay inside and prevent him from wandering around shooting jumpers) and McGee at power forward. That way, McGee can use his athleticism to roam around a little bit and come swoop in to block shots rather than have him get bodied up by a bigger guy and/or be more likely to commit a foul while trying to get the block.

Now writing for Ridiculous Upside, now with more draft coverage.

by Jon L on Jul 6, 2009 7:39 PM EDT reply actions  

I definitely think it depends on what end we're talking about

If it’s defense, then I agree with you that I want McGee flying in from the weakside rather than being the primary man defender. If it’s offense, then I’d rather have McGee finishing around the rim and scoring garbage points than shooting 15 footers.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 6, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree about his role in the defense

Part of what I liked so much about him playing next to Blatche is that Dray actually seemed strong enough to at least avoid being made a fool of by most non-elite centers, allowing Javale to guard power forwards and roam for blocks. They seemed to mesh really well on offense, too, with Blatche being a decent passer out of the high post and McGee cutting backdoor every few seconds to try to get a dunk. Even though they’re both kind of thin, I’m actually really looking forward to seeing them as our backup big man duo.

by pantslessyoda1 on Jul 6, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

The other thing about pairing McGee with Blatche or Haywood

that I really like is how long it makes us. All three of those guys can block shots relatively well, and they’re all long and mobile enough to at the very least alter a lot more, so I really like the idea of playing two of the three at any given time when we’re playing against teams like Boston that have a lot of players who take shots in or near the paint.

by pantslessyoda1 on Jul 6, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s something about a wiry 7 footer who can jump out of the gym with a huge wingspan dunking that makes my mouth gape.

by Fundefined on Jul 6, 2009 7:43 PM EDT reply actions  

I didn't

mind the McGee pick when I heard it. At that point I didn’t think we needed a whole lot, so why not take a flyer on a project? I was excited to finally have someone with some real athleticism on our team (other than Nick Young, who Eddie Jordan seemed to dislike). But that was just it, I saw him as a project – long term. That’s what all the reports were saying as well, that he wouldn’t get any minutes his 1st year. Then the chips start falling and he’s thrust into the fire early and voila!! – Instant excitement. Like I said, I DIDN’T MIND the pick at first. Once I saw what he could, I was happy as hell. I just hope he fulfills his potential. (AND that we allow him to)

by CJHutch on Jul 6, 2009 8:14 PM EDT reply actions  

My Take on JaVale

I’ve been talking down about McGee for awhile now, so I feel the need to clarify how I feel about him in general. There is no doubt that we have something special with JaVale McGee. His athleticism combined with his size is something to behold. I haven’t seen anything like it since Shaq in his youth. I realistically see this kid dominating the NBA in two to three seasons, once he grows into his body more and has the fundamentals of the game driven into him by good coaching.

Last season, I agree with everyone else that said that McGee should have gotten more minutes. 19-63 seasons are made for accelerating the development of your young prospects. JaVale should have been left out there to learn from his mistakes. Had he been, he would probably be only one season away from dominating instead of two to three. As it is, he is still very raw.

Which brings me to my point about this upcoming season. JaVale is still only 21 years old. I have heard that he is up to about 245 lbs. That sounds good, but the fact is that JaVale is very tall and therefore has a very high center of gravity. At this point, I would still expect him to get muscled around by the beefier centers in this league. Ideally, I would like to see him get most of the minutes that come to him at power forward, so that he would have the chance to showcase his quickness and post moves against smaller defenders and still be able to body those guys up on the defensive end. Like I said in another thread, a lanky kid like JaVale is going to fare better, and therefore build more confidence, if he is defending guys like Rashard Lewis or Boris Diaw instead of Dwight Howard or Shaquille O’Neal. I think he has more potential to develop into a Tim Duncan-style power forward than a Dwight Howard-style center. Perhaps I’m wrong about this, but that is my gut feeling about him at this point. Centers are typically tethered around the paint, and I would like to see McGee’s athleticism be put to better use from all over the half court.

Anyway, back to my point about his minutes this upcoming season. I may eat crow about this (it wouldn’t be the first time this offseason), but I still feel that McGee is too raw to be handed significant minutes in the regular rotation. I understand the need to play him more when the team is enroute to a 19-63 season, but not when the team can potentially go 55-27. It’s not a talent deficit, but more a situational, size, and fundamental deficit. I think we fool ourselves when we look at boxscore statistics like blocks to get a feel for JaVale’s defense. The fact is, based on advanced stats such as adjusted plus/minus, JaVale was absolutely terrible on defense. DraftExpress wasn’t kidding when they pronounced him the worst man-to-man defender they had ever evaluated in the post.

Looks very disinterested at times, doesn’t hustle, gives up on plays, late getting back down the floor, and might be the worst man to man defender we’ve ever evaluated in the post. Gets pushed around, gambles excessively for steals, has no stance or fundamentals, doesn’t move his feet, and is a complete non-factor even against the mediocre competition he faces. According to Synergy’s "PlayType QuickTable stats," McGee was scored on 66% of the time when being posted up in the paint (against the likes of Fresno State, Utah State, Houston, etc). Is light years away from being able to compete on an NBA level defensively, if ever.

When I first read these things a year ago, I thought that surely this most be hyperbole. But it wasn’t. He was that bad on defense, the numbers showed it, as did my eyes. When he wasn’t blocking shots he was biting for every pump fake, constantly giving up space to post players, never boxing out, and too much in a hurry to get down the court in a fast-break attempt rather than stay in the paint and secure the defensive rebound. Teams constantly made huge runs on the Wizards when McGee was in the game.

Some of these things can get better with more on-court experience, but a lot of these things are fundamental and can be coached into him during practices and work-out sessions. In other words, there is no need for on-the-job training for most of JaVale’s development, IMO. If he can make the team better by being on the floor in certain matchups, then I’m all for him being out there. But there is no reason to hurt the team’s record when he is making silly fundamental mistakes that can be learned in practices.

This season every game is going to count. We are most likely not going to be better than Orlando or Cleveland, but we could possibly be better than Boston. There is a huge difference in being the 3rd seed in the conference and getting home court advantage in the first round against the likes of Philly or Toronto than being the 5th seed and having to play on the road against Atlanta or Miami. I don’t want to see my favorite team get bounced in the first round yet again, but there is a good chance that happens if we start giving away games because JaVale McGee is out there in the 4th quarter giving away buckets and missing assignments.

It doesn’t look like Ernie agrees with me on this, as he has removed all of the roadblocks to McGee playing significant minutes in the regular rotation as has said that he has no plans to acquire any more than a 8-10 reserve big. I think most here agree with Ernie’s plan here. I still do not. I hope I am wrong.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jul 6, 2009 9:35 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I agree that he is still a bit raw

And this paragraph is spot-on:

When I first read these things a year ago, I thought that surely this most be hyperbole. But it wasn’t. He was that bad on defense, the numbers showed it, as did my eyes. When he wasn’t blocking shots he was biting for every pump fake, constantly giving up space to post players, never boxing out, and too much in a hurry to get down the court in a fast-break attempt rather than stay in the paint and secure the defensive rebound. Teams constantly made huge runs on the Wizards when McGee was in the game.

I have a feeling that they are going to bring McGee along on a trial basis (as also, Flip Saunders likes to keep his lineups tight) … but don’t expect to see McGee playing a lot of minutes from the start, but with the current roster composition, he will have a chance to earn more minutes if he shows mental improvement.

But yes, as advanced as the kid is (past what was expected of him coming out of college) … and as great as it seems he can be, he still has a loooooooong way to go.

Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.

by Kyle Weidie on Jul 6, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you're right on the mark with his problems on defense

Which is why it’s so discouraging that he didn’t play much last year. They blew the one chance they had at low-pressure on-court development.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 6, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

It seems Grunfeld and Tapscott didn’t want to reward players who constantly made mental errors and other type of mistakes with additional playing time. The best case scenario of giving someone like McGee more playing time is he learns from his mistakes more quickly. The worst case scenario is he develops bad habits (because the coaches allow him to), the team takes on a culture of valuing a player’s potential over his ability to play disciplined basketball, and the veterans who actually perform better than McGee come to resent the coach’s double standards in distributing playing time.

Clearly I tend to support the decision to play him limited minutes. If McGee wants to succeed in the NBA he’ll work hard this offseason and during training camp. Hopefully he’ll get better coaching than what he received last year. Assuming he reaches his goal of gaining 15 pounds (or comes close), and with one additionl year of exerience he “gets it” more next season than last, then he should be able to play a more important role for the team next season.

I’ll be very curious to see how he does in Las Vegas shortly.

by Johnnie Futbol on Jul 7, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

To your worst-case scenario

He won’t develop bad habits if the coaches do their job, the team’s “culture,” whatever that means, was irrevocably shattered when they sucked, so it doesn’t matter, and the veterans will either have to get over it (because when you go 19-63, you aren’t the priority anymore) or they’ll love to watch the guy continue to grow because it provides hope for next year, when they’ll all be on the team anyway.

You’re also forgetting key elements of the “best-case scenario,” including: management will know better what type of impact they can expect from McGee during games so they can be better informed about future roster changes; the next coach will know better what McGee’s true position is; the frontcourt of the future (McGee and Blatche) will have more than 232 minutes of experience playing together; McGee himself will have more confidence to play better with reckless abandon; and the guards on the team will have more experience understanding McGee’s sweet spots.

One thing I didn’t mention more clearly in this post is that the issue with McGee isn’t as much the raw number of minutes as when he got them. He never topped his minute per game average from April in any subsequent month, even after the season was lost You compare McGee to someone like Golden State’s Anthony Randolph, a similarly raw but supremely talented guy, and the difference in MPG for the season isn’t significant (17.9 to 15.3). However, Randolph’s minutes increased in every month since January, to the point where he was averaging over 32 minutes a game in April. The end result is that Randolph reigned in a lot of his wild play and averaged a double-double when he got the necessary time. McGee’s trajectory was the complete opposite, which demonstrates a major developmental failure. Golden State knows better what they have in Randolph than the Wizards know what they have in McGee.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Edit

The sentence should read "He never topped his minute per game average from November in any subsequent month.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

One thing I don’t disagree with is Tapscott was too wildly inconsistent with his PT. When he was first given the job he said he was going to run his 8 + 2 rotation (8 core players plus 2 who may rotate), with the idea that he would bring more consistency. He ended up worse in my opinion (although in some situations, like Blatche, I thought he was better).

Nonetheless this is how I see the McGee story last year: the Wizards got off to an awful start while McGee had a few nice games (the initial Utah game in particular). He was given the starting job but pretty quickly it became apparent he just wasn’t up to the task. His playing time decreased significantly. There was a string of games where Tapscott started him and then pulled him for the rest of the game after a few minutes. Eventually however Tapscott started using him more and there was a gradual uptick in his PT during the 2nd half of the season till Haywood returned.

He probably should have never been given the starting job or the number of minutes he received early on. That was a decision based on Jordan’s own frustration and the pressure he felt. It ended up backfiring and Tapscott consequently handled it poorly.

Nonetheless the argument that McGee didn’t get enough minutes and last year represents a lost opportunity is way overblown. The truth is McGee gained quite a bit of experience from the minutes he did receive last season and he’ll be a better player because of it.

And while I agree that my “best case scenario” was lacking (I knew it when I wrote it, and I thank you for fleshing it out more), I still stick by the possibility of my worst case scenario. Good coaching or not, if you throw a player into a situation that he’s not ready for (like starting early on in the season) it very well could backfire. The player can learn to develop bad habits, which we know that McGee has though probably not because of his early PT. Also 19 wins or not the culture of the team and the opinions of its players matter. This is a team that went to the playoffs 4 season in a row and should return again this season. You can’t throw away team culture and standards just because of one season.

by Johnnie Futbol on Jul 7, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here's a question to consider

What is the team’s “culture?” When you and others use that, what does it mean? Does it mean a culture of hard work? If so, what did McGee do wrong? It’s hard to argue that McGee didn’t represent the team’s culture and then turn around to a guy like Caron Butler, who normally works extremely hard, but was depressed after the EJ firing and loafed in several games.

Does it mean not making mistakes? No team or player can work to that standard. The vets make mistakes just like the young guys. I can’t tell you how many times Mike James took a bad shot, or Darius Songaila overhelped, or Antawn Jamison didn’t box out hoping instead to rely on his quick leaping, or Caron Butler drove into a double team in a bad spot on the court to lose the ball, or DeShawn Stevenson allowed his man to blow right by him for an easy two. Those are all mental mistakes, not physical ones. What makes McGee’s mental mistakes different?

Does it mean playing to win? Perhaps, but playing McGee doesn’t have to mean tanking. Tanking is playing Juan Dixon down the stretch in a close game. Tanking is benching your athletic center against a slow-footed guy like Aaron Gray. Tanking is holding Gilbert Arenas out for all but two games. With strong leadership, the coach can make it so playing young players isn’t tanking. Great coaches have done it for years. Tapscott could have too.

Does it mean not alienating the “veterans” on the team? Probably. But that’s not how to run an NBA franchise. The input of the players matters, but you can’t let the inmates run the asylum. You need to command authority instead of being a pushover to your loudest players’ whims. The veteran players will respect you if you are like that. If they don’t, then they aren’t worth keeping around anyway. An authority figure must win over his players by projecting authority and commanding respect, not by acquiescing to their every wish.

So, what exactly does that term mean? It really just sounds like a buzzword without proper elaboration. It sounds like a way for Taps to explain his thinking to the public without really explaining his thinking to the public.

I can’t buy an explanation for not playing McGee that includes a reference to the team’s culture, because the term is too vague and inconsistent.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

So, what exactly does that term mean? It really just sounds like a buzzword without proper elaboration. It sounds like a way for Taps to explain his thinking to the public without really explaining his thinking to the public.

Except that all team’s have a culture – good or bad. It’s anything but a buzzword. In all my own experiences playing organized team activities, which goes through the college level, a team’s culture sets the tone and ultimately often the success of a team. The higher you get in the competitiveness of a sport the more serious the team takes its culture. I can say resolutely from my own experience that team culture is taken to drastically new levels at the college level than at the high school level. And from the players that I’ve played with who went on to play professionally (NFL), as well as everything I’ve seen in professional sports simply as a spectator, team culture takes a completely new leap forward at the professional level.

What is team culture. Well it’s some of what you describe – how hard you work, how consistent you play, how commited you are to the team, how the coaching staff and the players interact, or even more simply does the better player get more playing time than the weaker player. The truth is culture is a very wide ranging thing, and as outsiders it’s impossible for us to really appreciate what the culture inside the Wizards organization is. But it’s fair enough to say every team has a culture, some teams take it more seriously than others, and some things are good and bad for team culture.

The input of the players matters, but you can’t let the inmates run the asylum. You need to command authority instead of being a pushover to your loudest players’ whims.

Certainly some coaches actually take that approach. But frankly, many coaches have lost their locker rooms – and justifiably so – by treating their players like “inmates” that they need complete authority over. There’s a reason why so many sports teams value their veterans so much (or their seniors if we’re talking HS or college sports), or why team captains tend to be veterans rather than rookies, or why rookies often struggle to get PT, etc.

by Johnnie Futbol on Jul 7, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not seeing much substance in that answer

The line about us not knowing the Wizards’ “culture” is exactly the problem. A “culture” is supposed to have substance that’s easy to digest. We know the Spurs’ “culture,” rookies on the Spurs know the Spurs’ “culture.” We know Phil Jackson’s “culture.” We know the Celtics’ “culture.” A culture without any substance is a buzzword. It doesn’t really mean anything. Besides, even if a “culture” has more substance, it becomes irrevocably harmed when the veterans don’t stick to it.

Anyway, if you agree that a team’s “culture” encompasses things I listed, then I don’t see how you can make the culture argument when there have been so many holes popped into the definition. Either the Wizards’ “culture” is something we can substantively break down or it is too vague. This isn’t something we can defer to anyone about.

As for the final point, clearly there’s a balance between being a taskmaster and being easygoing. But there are many ways to project authority besides cracking the whip. Commanding respect is not the same as yelling at people. Doing what your veterans want is not commanding respect.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

what holes have you popped??

Of course every player on the Wizards makes mistakes. McGee however happens to make more given his experience than players like Songalia, Jamison, etc. Songalia was given more playing time because he was a more effective player. The Wizards simply weren’t a better team with McGee on the court, as great as his potential may be (which seems to be acknowledged by most now). To throw him out there anyways even though he hasn’t earned it is exactly the thing the Wizards didn’t want to do. That’s just one part of their culture – something of substance – that was plain to see last season, and a principle in dividing up playing time that certainly teams like the Spurs and Celtics also adhere to. Expecting that players – espcially rookies – earn their playing time is about as universal as a princple can be.

And let’s not get ahead of ourselves and assume that we could possibly have a clear perception of any NBA team’s culture, no matter how much of a fan we may be. There is sooooooo much we don’t see.

by Johnnie Futbol on Jul 7, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

what holes have you popped??

If the culture is about hard work, McGee worked hard. If it was about not making mental mistakes, everyone made mental mistakes, why should McGee be benched for his when the other guys weren’t always. If it’s playing to win, a) winning has to become a long-term goal, not a short-term one, and b) while McGee may have hurt the team as a whole, he did some things that helped the team and could have become even better at helping the team if he was not yanked around so much (he was helping the team most early in the season when he got consistent minutes). If it’s appeasing the vets, the loyal vets want direction and the disloyal vets (like AD to a certain extent) aren’t worth keeping around.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

McGee worked hard and his character is good, that’s not in question. But he wasn’t the better player than those that played ahead of him. We all can agree that the other players made mistakes too because frankly every player makes mistakes, mental or otherwise. As I argued just above McGee made more of them.

Great talent or not McGee earned about 15 minutes of playing time. He’ll be better next seasn and he’ll earn more.

by Johnnie Futbol on Jul 7, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Allow Me to Insert Myself Into This Conversation

I think I understand what Johnnie Futbol means by “team culture”. But I just don’t see how it was particularly relevant to last season. Team culture, IMO, is fundamentally shaped by the head coach and his staff. By playing most of last season under an interim coach with guys on the staff who were in transition (i.e. aren’t part of the team’s future), then I don’t see how you can either maintain a previous culture or create a new one that lasts.

I was actually in favor of Ernie putting a new coach in place early last season, but with the economy tanking Ernie chose to go the cheap route and move Taps down from the front office to essentially babysit the team for 71 games. At that point, what culture do you hope to maintain? While you might be able to scale back your priorities for the team to simple things like discipline and fundamentals, you have to realize that everything else is going to change once the new coach comes in and cleans house during the offseason. This doesn’t even mention the fact that players get a sense of culture from the overall direction of the franchise. If players don’t know what the team’s overall priorities are, then part of that winning team culture becomes lost. By playing guys like Mike James and Juan Dixon (who everybody knows aren’t in the team’s future plans) over guys like Javaris Crittenton and JaVale McGee, you are basically telling the team as a whole that there is no plan for next season. Chaos then replaces discipline, and guys like Caron loaf because they figure, “what’s the point?”

By letting the young players play more, you can impart a message to the veterans that the team is restructuring to be better next season. You can sell them on the value of resting their aging bodies so that they will be more physically able to deal with the rigors of the next season. You can then tell them that their young teammates will be more experienced and able to help when the time comes.

But none of this happened. Last season descended into an illogical, chaotic mess. Now the ship will be righted by a good head coach like Flip Saunders, but an opportunity was lost for our young players that hopefully won’t be available again, if that makes any sense.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The only thing I'd disagree with

Is that a skillful coach can effectively transition a culture in the way you described by installing a clear sense of direction that focuses on tomorrow rather than today. Taps should have been able to do that fine because he wasn’t going to lose his job as a member of the organization, but he didn’t do it.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right

I don’t think we actually disagree on this small point. I simply think that such a transition affects only a small subset of the team’s culture. The bulk of the culture is implemented when the new coach comes in and installs his priorities in the locker room.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Grunfeld used Tapscott because generally speaking out-of-work head coaches like Saunders prefer to be hired in the offseason.

And while I agree that interim head coaches are going to find it more difficult to preach team discipline than one that is long term, that doesn’t mean Tapscott should adopt measures that just don’t make any sense – like giving a player minutes based on his potential alone.

by Johnnie Futbol on Jul 7, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

my take

Also 19 wins or not the culture of the team and the opinions of its players matter.

IMO, if there was a “culture” to this team, it’s that it was veteran oriented. On the surface, you’d think that of all teams, right? At least the good ones. So maybe you have to divide it between team and franchise. The ‘team’ is what’s there that year. The ‘franchise’ is constant. Players who know they are part of the ‘franchise’ know that they have to help the young guys develop to keep the team competitive. Players who are part of that years ‘team’ are just worried about winning now. (or playing for a contract, pay raise, etc.) Sure, with the older guys these two can intersect, which makes it a tough situation. But once it’s apparent that your ‘team’ is not going anywhere, then you concentrate on the ‘franchise.’ Meaning guys like Songalia, James, Dixon, Thomas, probably even Stevenson, should carry less weight in the overall picture. And guys like Jamison and/or Butler should realize that they are better off reducing their minutes to possibly extend their career, while also giving the young guys a chance to develop. While this may look like tanking to an outsider, who gives a crap. If there is a silver lining in a dreadful season, it’s that you can excel the growing pains of your young players. Are they a (paid) part of your team? Yes. Are they trying to win the game? Yes. So how is that tanking? Not that I’m saying we should have done this but, would starting Critt/Young/McGuire/Blatche/McGee have made us any worse? No. Granted, nobody knew we were going to top out at 19 wins. But EVERYONE knew we were awful.

I guess I kind of got carried away and sidetracked from my original message. My point is, under E. Jordan we were a “VETERAN” team. He rarely gave rookies young’uns the chance to shine. Do you ride your veterans in the clutch? Yes. Do you lean on them for leadership? Absolutely. But if you have a player on the bench who’s better than the guy on the floor, do you leave him sitting just because he can’t buy beer? NO!
 I wonder what EJ would’ve done with LeBron.

by CJHutch on Jul 7, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

ah, i remember that bulls-wiz game.

i was thinking: the bulls should not sleep on the wizards, they are one of those bad teams that can really sneak up on you. then i thought: oh no, they have some bigger tyrus thomas character flying around and creating havoc! the bulls are in trouble. then i thought: oh good, the bulls are going to win, that crazy 7-footer has been benched for some reason.

by TheMoon on Jul 6, 2009 10:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Also About Songaila Over McGee ....

‘Cause I’m a defender of why he didn’t play so much.

1) Tapscott (and Grunfeld) could have been concerned about the “appearance” of tanking if they just threw the kid into the fire for several minutes per game .. or at least for more minutes than veterans.

2) Veterans have pride … and you see how much the guys loved Songaila (well, at least Jamison and Haywood, the only two who have really commented publicly on the trade) … there’s not a faster way to piss off veterans than playing a rookie over them when they are working just as hard on the court and off in practice.

I’m just not sure, even in the face of losing, if it would have been the best move in the world to play McGee over Songaila …. I think it could have frustrated the team even more, starting with the older players down.

It’s easy to say … “who cares what vets like Jamison, Butler, and Songaila say when we are terrible” … but it’s much easier said by us outsiders than done by the coaching staff.

Hence, I sometimes have a bit of a hard time (guilty conscious) coming down on Tapscott too much for playing veterans like Etan and Songaila over McGee.

Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.

by Kyle Weidie on Jul 6, 2009 10:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Rook-

Some have compared him to Dwight Howard when he first came into the League

Really? “Some”? You mean yourself. And nobody else as far as I can tell.

I think it does us a disservice to make this comparison.

Sorry, don’t mean to sound harsh, but pumping the expectations up too much can only lead to the kind of disappointment that people feel with Blatche. If McGee ends up anything short of league MVP people will be calling for him to be traded. Let’s let him be himself.

It’s like calling everyone the next Larry Bird.

by MR on Jul 6, 2009 10:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Be Fair

Kevin Broom from The Secret Weapon had this to say about McGee back in April:

Physically, McGee is probably more like Howard than anyone else. Comparing rookie season to rookie season, Howard rebounded more than McGee, shot less and better, scored less, and blocked fewer shots. Howard also fouled less.

He made the comparison based on rookie PER, not simply wishful thinking. Also, I have seen other writers make the comparison based on physical attributes such as wingspan and standing reach.

While I agree we shouldn’t get carried away, it is very appropriate to make such comparisons when discussing potential, if they are warranted and they stick to the commonalities.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Then there’s the Chris Paul statement after an exhibition game last summer.

McGee will be a different type of player than Howard, but for a big guy he inspires a similar awe in athletic talent.

by Johnnie Futbol on Jul 7, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

My simple comparison was based on body type

If you followed the link, you would have seen pictures of each player at similar ages….

Dwight Howard, at 18, coming into the NBA was a twig (6’11", 240 pounds) ; especially compared to what he looks like now (6’11" 265 pounds). JaVale McGee, at 21, coming into the NBA was a twig (7’0", 237 pounds)….

Others have made a similar connection between Howard and McGee from an athleticism standpoint….

I stopped short of calling him “the NEXT Dwight Howard” – but I do believe that he can follow the example that Howard set – and get his rear end in the weight room, and stay there until he’s sufficiently muscled up to play Center in this league without being pushed around.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Jul 7, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

and

Even though I was only comparing body types…. Others HAVE compared McGee to Howard:

Fannation:
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/74711

Chris Paul:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/19/AR2008101901699.html

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/teams/report/WAS/11736991

Now – I certainly don’t believe that JaVale’s game compares with Howard’s. For one thing, Howard is an elite defender. JaVale is definitely NOT. For another, Howard is mainly a back-to-the-basket center, with a limited Offensive repertoire; whereas JaVale ranges more and has an emerging mid-range jump shot. McGee is more likely to put the ball on the floor from the FT line and go to the rim. Howard is more likely to establish (and keep) deep position in the post.

AND, I still believe that the way for McGee to maximize his potential is to put on 30 pounds of muscle, and play Center (sorry cuppettcj, I know you and I disagree on this point…)

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Jul 7, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Howard

was not an elite defender coming into the league. More often than not he was out of position and confused on defense. He spent more time on defense waiting for the shot to go up so he could rebound it than he did in forcing a miss in the first place. In short, he played like a highschooler with more talent than brains. He could block a shot on defense, but that’s about it. And early on he’d land trouble from pumpfakes juking him out of position. Much like babywookie.

In that respect the two are very similar. Difference was that Howard had the muscle to stand his ground early. He still has a high center of gravity considering he’s built like cartoon bulldog, but Javale will always have a higher center of – uh, absolutely everything. JaVale is mad-tall.

That said JaVale doesn’t need a ton of weight to be effective. Even when shoved off his spot he’s still able to be effective since he has that remarkable length and body control. He can block or challenge a shot when he’s out of position. And the fact that he can block a perimeter shot when he was one foot in the paint at the start of the move, that’s jsut insane. Really mindboggling.

Once he learns to use his length at both ends he’ll be a significant player. He just needs some tutoring. A key difference between JaVale and Howard is that Howard was a manchild early. Wheras JaVale, coming out of highschool weighed 190lbs (at 7 feet) and played as a face-up small forward. He couldn’t body his man off the blocks because he would have needed another extra body to do it. And since his mom decided that the real money for the NBA was in Bigs who could dribble, pass, and have a face-up game she raised him up that way. Then sent him to a school that had him play understudy to face-up big Nick Fazekas. In effect, he’s jsut now learning how to play big.

He’s putting on considerable weight though when you look back. A steady 10 lbs per year of athletic muscle, with a frame that will take more. And unlike many superbigs he’s not a pituitary freak, he’s proportionate. I personally don’t want him to try and pack weight since even veterinary medicine can’t predict those kinds of stressors on a frame that size with that kind of leaping ability. He simply needs to play smarter, not with more power. Watch Bill Russell, Kareem, or the cat whose body type he most resembles in Wilt the Stilt.

And please gawds of basketball get the Wizards front office a true top quality Big Man coach. Flip’s good pal Kevin McHale is doing nothing right now… Neither is Alonzo Mourning… There’s got to be a long list of possible tutors who could help mould the future of the franchise.

by doclinkin on Jul 7, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Good Analysis

I just would like to know your opinion on the following point. Wouldn’t stronger, beefier centers with lower centers of gravity be able to quickly learn how to take advantage of McGee’s inability to hold his position in the post? I agree that McGee can still surprise a player by still blocking his shot even when he is out of position. I just see that as a temporary surprise that goes away once the other player adjusts. When I was watching video of DeJuan Blair pwn Hasheem Thabeet in college, I was reminded of how shorter NBA centers were able to position their bodies against McGee that limited his ability to affect their shot.

Also, if it is risky to ask McGee to pack the pounds on his body to help better maintain his position, then why not move him over to the power forward position instead? That way, he can still be effective with the lean, lanky body that he has. And his quickness will be put to better use, IMO, because he won’t be tethered to the paint (where his man will presumably be) all of the time, but can instead affect shots on the wing as well. Your thoughts on this?

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah.

Power forwards will generally be even shorter, beefier, with yet lower centers of gravity, greater strength. His quickness compared to other centers will eventually allow him to be a mismatch against Centers – - once he knows what he’s doing out there. He still shoots from a low angle and needs a repeatable move in the low-post other than to dunk. Imagine the kid with a Kareem skyhook. He’d be impossible to stop. He showed a nice Pat Ewing dropstep in his Dallas debut, we just never saw it again.

Actually on defense the thing that will help him the most will be banging with Haywood every day and picking up tips/techniques. Haywood and JaVale both have remarkable length (top ten in the available database in standing reach and wingspan). Brendan doesn’t have JaVale’s implausible hops, but if JaVale can pick up anything from Brendan’s groundbound strength and defensive leadership, that’s all to the positive. Unless of course JaVale rips his wrist off again trying to jam over him. Or vice versa.

I light incense on the shrine for the gawds of basketball to be merciful.

by doclinkin on Jul 8, 2009 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Funny
Power forwards will generally be even shorter, beefier, with yet lower centers of gravity, greater strength.

When I think of power forwards, I tend to think of guys like Rashard Lewis (6’10" 230lbs), Boris Diaw (6’8" 235lbs), Amare Stoudamire (6’10" 249lbs), Chris Bosh (6’10" 230lbs), Thaddeus Young (6’8" 220lbs), and our very own Antawn Jamison (6’9" 235lbs). Those guys tend to be leaner and quicker, not necessarily beefier and stronger. You usually don’t want your center prospects trying to guard them, not because they can’t hold their position, but because they are usually too slow-footed to stay in front of them, or catch up to them on the perimeter.

I think McGee would do exceptionally well against those guys (not counting Jamison, of course). They don’t have the bulk to muscle McGee around in the post, and if they try to “outquick” McGee they will find themselves surprised when their shot ends up in the third row. It is true that there are certain beefy power forwards like Paul Millsap and Jason Maxiell, but I think they are a lot more uncommon than centers who have bulk like Shaq (7’1" 325lbs), Howard (6’11" 265lbs), Ilgauskas (7’3" 260lbs), and Perkins (6’10" 280lbs).

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jul 8, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree - except
Difference was that Howard had the muscle to stand his ground early.

Howard came into the League right out of High School. He was 6’11" 240 pounds (see picture here)
As you can see, Howard had a very similar frame when he came into the League as JaVale did when he came in.
Howard did NOT have the muscle (or bulk) to stand his ground early…

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Jul 7, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Correction on the measurements

According to the DX draft prospects measurements dbase, highschooler Dwight Howard entered his rookie season at (barefoot) 6’9" 240 lbs.

Whereas when JaVale McGee was a highschool senior, he was listed at 6’11" and a generous 210lbs. (When he transferred to Chicago they had him at 190 lbs entering senior year).

After a couple years of college chow McGee entered the league at 7’ 240, with the tallest flatfooted standing reach in the past 10+ years. A good 3.5" longer than Dwight, 2" wider wingspan.

Now no point diving into anthropometric minutia (wrist to handspan ratio, wingspan vs. chest cavity depth, etc- – at some point it gets sublimely awkward, slightly absurd). They’re just different.

The larger point being, I suspect JaVale will continue to add strength, whether or not he has the same bull mastiff frame that Dwight does. Though his inseam being up by his neck will always tend to give him less of a base than players with a heavier, uh, fundament…

(Though to be fair Dwight has some puny calf muscles for his size, he’s topheavy in a different way)

JaVale will add strength, but he’ll always look lanky. Mama McGee even says he’s actually added an inch this past year. Either way, he’ll improve more with better technique than he will trying to get huge.
 

by doclinkin on Jul 8, 2009 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Couple more highschool pics

Dwight (#12 of course):

JaVale:

Or:

by doclinkin on Jul 8, 2009 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am excited

about McGee, but I’m not too sure of the Howard comparison. I think it may be a reach. I believe Howard is a once in a blue moon (great beer) physical talent/specimen. As I said below, I see Javale more as a Marcus Camby type. Which I don’t think is a bad thing. He probably has more explosion than Camby, but their games are very similar. Specifically early Camby. Check out the link I posted under “great comparison” and see for yourself.

by CJHutch on Jul 8, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd love it if

he developed Camby’s skill level, with better positional defense. But he’s already bigger than Camby. Bigger especially than Camby was coming out of UMass. Way back when I was a post-Patrick Knick fan we used to call him ‘Bambi’ because of how fragile he was. Guy spent half the year every year on the bench with those slender bones, skinny shoulders.

JaVale’s frame, if nothing else, more closely resembles that of Wilt at the same age. The same lean frame, strong bones wide shoulders, narrow waist, huge hands.

He’s a specimen. Top 100th percentile. Which is why the gap in skill level is his biggest chasm to cross. He’s got a long way to go to justify his upside, in large part because there’s so much of it. There’s a lot of up to climb.

The fact that he’s a late bloomer just means he may be productive later and later in his career. Health allowing.

by doclinkin on Jul 8, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

You Don't Have to Apologize for Disagreeing With Me
AND, I still believe that the way for McGee to maximize his potential is to put on 30 pounds of muscle, and play Center (sorry cuppettcj, I know you and I disagree on this point…)

Like I said before, it looks like Ernie Grunfeld envisions McGee as a future center, and not a future power forward, so he agrees with you. I hope I am wrong and you and Ernie are right. Or at the very least, I hope that if McGee doesn’t quickly bulk up and play better at center, that Ernie realizes it soon and goes to plan B (whatever that is).

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not Dwight Howard, but....

There were a number of calls comparing him to Dwight Howard. I can’t remember by who at this point, but that was one thing that the birdies were chirping.

I don’t like the comparison myself though; not nearly physical enough.

But he reminds me of a lankier, less skilled version of Larry Nance. ‘Less Skilled’ is not really a knock as Nance was a forward as opposed to a center, but the same kind of assisted, swooping glide-drives that end in a crushing dunk are plain to see. He’s not quite the same kind of leaper, but you know, he’s so long that…..

by Hoopalotta on Jul 7, 2009 1:57 AM EDT reply actions  

great

comparison

But he reminds me of a lankier, less skilled version of Larry Nance.

I just watched that highlight video. The play where he went behind the basket and scooped it on the other side was very Nance-esque.

I always equated him to a Marcus Camby type. Check out this clip…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IALwXNG8ZBs&feature=related

by CJHutch on Jul 7, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

What McGee has

going for him also is his lineage. Most of the time the offspring of professional athletes who make it themselves have the know how of what it takes. This is nothing to sneeze at. There are plenty of physical freaks who just couldn’t cut it in pro sports because they didn’t understand what they were getting into. The easy example there is Kwame Brown. Unfortunately, most of the 2nd genners aren’t as talented or gifted as their parents (Luke Walton, Damien Wilkins, DJ Strawberry). But sometimes they surpass expectations (Kobe Bryant). Now, I realize McGee is hard to place in either of these categories since it’s his mother who played before him, but at least we know he’s familiar with the work ethic you need to succeed at the pro level.

by CJHutch on Jul 7, 2009 9:22 AM EDT reply actions  

You forgot to mention

His somewhat embarrassing transformers video Now that’s called intimidation.

Your meme here.

by Natepyatt on Jul 7, 2009 10:37 AM EDT reply actions  

yeah

he should wear that mask during the game. Optimus Prime would kick Superman’s a$$.

by CJHutch on Jul 7, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

mcgee still a project

mcgee still has a long, long way to go before he’s a servicable player. he hasn’t proven he can consistently hit even a short jump shot. unless he can shoot, he can’t be an truely effective forward. might as well play mcguire.

if he can’t play forward, then he has to play center. he’s nowhere near strong enough. he was pushed around last year, and judging from interviews, comments from butler, it doesn’t sound like he’s committed to the weight room. anybody seen any pictures lately? i’’m not optimistic.

there’s also the minor issue of his not knowing how to play basketball. he’s getting a little long-in-the-tooth to still be learning the game. it’s not that complicated. how long’s it going to take?

he certainly has athleticism, and you can’t teach that, so i still don’t think it was a bad pick…. but the odds are still high that he will never really contribute much. i would happily trade him for any decent backup center.
 

by stevie on Jul 7, 2009 3:13 PM EDT reply actions  

judging from interviews, comments from butler, it doesn’t sound like he’s committed to the weight room.

What comments are you referring to? It sounds to me like you mixed McGee up with Blatche.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

McGee is only 21 Years old...
he’s getting a little long-in-the-tooth

He had 2 years of College basketball – in a so-so conference… (The WAC, along with Basketball “powerhouses” Hawaii, Idaho, New Mexico, and Utah) … and has had 1 year Pro experience.

He was a 7-foot, 190 pound High School senior…

By the accounts I’ve read (McGee’s twitter account @bigdaddywookie, Wash Post, , and even right here on BulletsForever ) – McGee has been working very hard to add about 15 pounds of muscle this Summer …. Looking to report to camp at 7’1" 255 lbs.

That’s 65 pounds of muscle since his Senior year in HS – (3 seasons). I’d say the kid is working.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Jul 7, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

That’s the first time I’ve ever read that being 21 is “a little long-in-the-tooth.”

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, I guess that's what we get

When Scouting services are scouting 7th graders, and the 5th player taken in the recent draft was an 18 year old.

If he hasn’t learned by the time he’s 21, he’ll never learn…. Old dogs,………. well you know the old adage…

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Jul 7, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd give up

my Hair Club For Men membership to be 21, I don’t care how long my teeth are.

by CJHutch on Jul 7, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure I

understand this statement

there’s also the minor issue of his not knowing how to play basketball. he’s getting a little long-in-the-tooth to still be learning the game.

Are you saying this because he only went to college for 2 years? Do you think he knows less than any 20-21 year old rookie? I mean, yeah, he’s still growing into his body. That you can tell. But I think he has the same experience as any other 2 year college player. I’m pretty sure he played in high school, and I’m pretty sure he watched his mom and aunt play. I don’t know if his dad was involved in his life.

Or do you mean he doesn’t know how to play professional basketball?

 Either way, I don’t see how a 20 year old rookie can be held responsible for not knowing the NBA game.

by CJHutch on Jul 7, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like the Camby and Larry Nance analogies...

There is also the young David Robinson to consider… Remember that the Admiral was well into his 20s before he finally reached the NBA. When he was in college he was a much leaner, quicker player.

Camby still seems the closest comparison to JVM for me though… and it is instructive that while Camby has put on a little bulk over the past 18 years, he still is fundamentally the same long lean shot-blocker and rebounder that came out of UMass. I believe JaVale will mature physically in pretty much the same way.

Larry Nance was much stronger and more muscular to begin with, but had freakishly good hops for his size

by khrabb on Jul 8, 2009 11:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Washington Wizards.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Randy Wittman Seems to "Get It"

Recent FanPosts

Small
Should Wiz try a 2 PG lineup
Small
How I Would Do It
Small
Where Is JaVale?
Kg_nasty_small
should the Vesely pick get Ernie fired?
Kg_nasty_small
If the wiz get the #1 pick would you consider trading down?
Unseld_small
Playing Apologist to my Buddy in Orlando
Picture_015_small
Simply... Thomas Robinson is a beast!!!
Small
Donning the Grunfeld Moustache
Kg_nasty_small
would you redo the first round 2011 picks
History_summary_unseld_small
There is a solid team on this roster - if they get the minutes

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Editor-In-Chief

Headshot_small Mike Prada

Associate Editor

Small Vanilla Gorilla

248225_small Sean Fagan

Contributors

Jakesbshot_small Jake Whitacre

Mriggs_cartoon_2__small Rook6980

Addingmachine_small bwoodsxyz

Photo_on_2010-12-10_at_10 Bullet Nation in Exile