Target Practice: Rasho, Channing, Jason and Jamaal
Mike Jones of the WaTimes is reporting that, according to league sources, Nesterovic, Frye, Collins and Magloire are on the Wizards' target list.
Personally, I've come around on Rasho. Collins is a decent body, but statistics indicate he's just as bad of a rebounder as Darius Songaila, while a MUCH worse passer and offensive player.
Magloire? Yuck. He makes Andray Blatche's hustle and motivation look like Matt Harping's.
And Frye? He's an absolutely terrible defender ... yet a decent offensive option.
But I'm curious as to what you guys think, chop away ...
over 2 years ago
Kyle Weidie
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Ew
Rasho’s good. Everyone else, no flippin way.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
i don't wnat any of them
i wouldn’t count out a package including foye/young for amare or bosh. also we could look at boozer and they would prob want less
Foye can't be dealt until August 24
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
so
alot of teams would want young he is a good scorer with potential to be a starter or very good 6th man
by Terpsfan2189 on Jul 5, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't be dealt in a package
He can be dealt solo.
Right, but that doesn't help get Amare
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Yup
Thanks for the clarification.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I'd take rasho.
maybe channing since he is 6-11 and is over 240. he is still young and if we can’t get anyone else it’s worth a shot.
The best information from the article was
“One player the Wizards are not even considering, however, is Stephon Marbury. Despite reports that Washington is a favorite to land the guard, who wants a reunion with Flip Saunders, I’m told the interest is only one-sided, and Washington isn’t considering adding any more guards to what is an already crowded back court.”
Other than this, whichever one the Wizards sign, he will not have a major impact on the teams success next season. This guy is only needed for 5-10 mins a game to rest a big. Making too much out of this, should concentrate on if roster players on the Summer league team has improved.
I do not understand your last sentence at all
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
About that 5-10 minutes a game thing
Got carried away, but I reduced my two-page response to this: EG’s selling the fans on the team (part of his job), his analysis that we only need an 8-10 mpg big is bogus. Jamison at 33 should be taking on less minutes especially after coming off injury, Blatche has yet to achieve consistency and there may be stretches where he needs to get bumped down to 3rd string PF/C, McGee’s a future star but present-day stringbean, and Haywoods never topped 30 mpg and is coming off a season-long absence. Add to that an expected amount of minor injuries throughout the season maybe 20 games @ PF and C between the Jamison/Blatche/McGee/Haywood (thats a madeup figure, meant only to introduce the factor of expected injuries).
by morethesamewiz on Jul 6, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
EG might be posturing. We won’t know until we see what we have on the roster after the trade deadline. I am sure even though we know it is obvious to us, it does not help him if everyone knows he is desperate!
by les boulez bomber on Jul 6, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I just don't understand this debate about Ernie's thoughts on minutes
Let’s say that Haywood gets 25 minutes and AJ allows his minutes to be reduced to 30 (thereby removing himself from all-star consideration due to stat shrinkage.)That leaves 41 big man minutes. If we play Blatche 20 minutes (isn’t this also a reduction?) and give McGee 10 minutes that gives us 11 minutes to play player X. Unless we get a starting quality player as a backup I’m not sure how we could give them more than this.
I’m afraid of injury too, but it is what it is. No NBA team has star/starter quality players as backups at each slot. When Garnett went down the Celtics had to play Scalabrine major minutes, are they cheap? They are going to go Rasheed fix this, but what does their backup wing and point guard situation look like? Who backs up Rondo?
What FA that would come here (Rasheed was never going to come here) to be a backup playing say 20 minutes a night would be a starting caliber backup at the Center spot? Is that person really better than our current 20 minute guy Blatche?
If not, lets get a 7footer that can use all his fouls and play a distinct role vs. Blatche and trust our coach to comeup with linups that can win when important pieces are hurt. Honestly, in the unlikely event of another season ending Haywood injury, would Rasho for 20, Blatche for 20, McGee for 20 and some small ball doom us to oblivion if the rest of the team is as good as we think? Much of Haywoods critical importance to the team was based on the shortcomings of our schemes. Hopefully, that has been addressed with Flip.
Plus we still have the pieces to make a trade up until the deadline.
by NeverNervousPervis on Jul 6, 2009 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bahsten
but what does their backup wing and point guard situation look like? Who backs up Rondo?
Well, Last year:
Boston’s backup PG: Eddie House, 9-year Pro (8.5ppg, 44% 3-point shooter, 15.44 PER)
They also picked up one Stephon Marbury for insurance.
Wizards Backup PG: Javaris Crittenton.
Boston’s backup SG: Tony Allen. 5-year Pro (7.8 ppg, 48% FG%)
Wizard’s backp SG: Nick Young
Boston’s backup SF: When Paul Pierce took a break, it was Leon Powe. 3-year Vet (7.7 ppg, 52%, 17.25 PER)
Wizard’s Backup SF: Dominic McGuire
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Thanks.
Ok, I think you are making my point.
Eddie House is a very useful player but completely a shoot first guy, not really a traditional 1. Would Boston have fared well withy him if Rondo went down with an injury? IMO no. Tony Allen is a good solid player and may be better than Nick Young now. He is not a starting quality player, unless perhaps you have DeShawn as your starter. He is also not worth the MLE. Leon Powe was a great surprise player the year before and deserved serious minutes as a 3/4. I’d love to have him although I’m not convinced he’s better than Blatche or even Dom at SF.
In the meantime, I’m not sure how our backups at the end of last year relate to this post but you are being somewhat deceptive, at the beginning of the season we had AD as our backup 2. We also had Songaila able to take minutes at 3 or allow AJ to slide to 3. Nick Young was/is a reasonably highly regarded 1st round pick which many teams would have been happy with at backup 2 vs. someone like Tony Allen. We also theoretically had a competant big body in Etan.
Regardless we know last years 19 win team had problems on the wing, but we have addressed them by getting two guys better than anyone you listed as a backup for the Celtics last year. I think you would agree that our current bench is better than what you listed for the Celtics.
by NeverNervousPervis on Jul 6, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My Point on This
I was a strong believer that the only reason why Blatche and McGee got those many minutes last season was because of the injuries and the terrible record. I remember before the start of last season hearing Ernie and Eddie Jordan comment on how there was no chance that McGee would crack the regular rotation, which made sense to me at the time.
Ernie and Flip are now planning on a deep playoff push. I don’t see how that is possible with Blatche and McGee getting so many minutes. Blatche should ideally get about 12-18 MPG almost entirely at the PF position and someone like Rasho should get the 15-20 MPG at backup center. McGee should only get 5-8 MPG in mostly garbage time situations as he continues to work on his fundamentals, which can be taught in practice. That’s my take.
Of course, looking at Ernie’s comments and the salary cap/luxury tax situation, I think it is more likely that Ernie agrees with your take on minutes. But that doesn’t mean I have to agree with the take or like it.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Fair enough
That’s the fun of discussing this stuff, and I understand your points.
What has puzzled me most about this isn’t so much that they want someone else to play the minutes, it’s that they assume money is the main reason the wizard aren’t getting some MLE guy as opposed to realizing that Ernie may just feel that Blatche in particular should get the minutes.
by NeverNervousPervis on Jul 6, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
McGee's Minutes
Should be a lot higher than 5-8. He was good last year; he’ll be even better this year. He’s going to develop fastest by playing, and in real situations, not garbage time. He’s a legitimate backup, right now, to Haywood. Yeah he’s raw, but he also brings a lot to the table when he’s in the game.
Yeah
I’d also argue Blatche’s minutes should be higher than what you listed.
The real value of having a guy with them is to fill in when there are injuries and provide both a mentor and a buffer to encourage them to improve. It works best when the guy is better rather than just a token vet, because it could easily be interpreted that the token vet only receives minutes because he’s a vet.
There’s nothing wrong with the strategy of going after a 10-minute guy. I just wish that 10-minute guy would be in addition to DeJuan Blair for 700k rather than instead of him.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
The Dejuan Blair thing is getting kinda old
I agree that it wouldve been a good idea to get him with our second round pick but there’s really no use in crying over that anymore. We cant go back in time to change it so people need to just get over it now because it is getting annoying.
I don't know that
mentioning it in passing, as Prada did, equates to beating a dead horse. the point remains valid.
People can talk about it however long they want to
As long as they aren’t being repetitive in their language and are presenting the point in different contexts. It’s rude to tell people to “get over” something. If you’re tired of hearing about it, don’t read it.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
We know you feel this way
You don’t need to keep saying it. It gets repetitive and annoying after a while.
-Mike Prada
July 6, 2009
by MR on Jul 6, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Come on MR, that's different
Ironically, I need to be repetitive here to clear this up.
There’s a major difference between CJHutch repeatedly saying “I hate Stevenson,” “Stevenson is garbage” or “Losing Stevenson is addition by subtraction” over and over again in every single thread and me or anyone else clarifying there’s no problem with the Wizards’ bargain basement free agent strategy, though it would be better if Blair was a part of the team as well. The latter is a far different context than saying “The Wizards FO sucks for not drafting Blair” over and over again.
Again, repetition is only annoying if it’s always in the same context.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
And
There’s a major difference between saying “We get it, you feel that way” and “Get over it.”
Nobody should ever be told to “get over” an opinion. They can be told that their opinion is heard loud and clear.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
In other words
Be original in your criticism instead of simply repeating the same exact thing in the same exact way over and over again.
And don’t be inflammatory by telling people to “get over it.” That’s rude.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
To be honest
I’ve seen you be rather inflammatory at times with people and then turn around and tell others not to say things that are very similar to what you said because it is all of a sudden “rude” since it was directed toward you.
Maybe
The point remains, though: two wrongs don’t make a right.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
And I ask if you have any more to discuss with me
Please do it over e-mail and not in this thread. I’m happy to talk more, but not in front of everyone.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
That statements kinda ridiculous
But im done with it if you are. But like you said I’ll e-mail if I have any more problems and you can do the same.
Theres no difference
Just because the point isnt being made with words that are more harsh such as “The Wizards FO sucks for not drafting Blair” doesnt make it any less repetitive. Also, you havent always made that argument in the same context you are now. Take a flashback to draft night.
I also did say it was getting annoying which in the context I used the word “annoying” means “We get it, you feel that way”. But you seemed to ignore that part.
Wording matters on this site, lj
That’s how Jake, Truth, Rook and I run things.
Repetition of language and tone is exactly the issue here, not repetition in the point made. If we made a provision that people could not hold and express their specific opinions on hot-button issues, then there would be no discussion ever on here. We only ask that people express those opinions respectfully, differently and thoughtfully.
You can’t tell people to “get over it.” I’m sorry. It doesn’t matter what preceded that statement.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
All in good fun
I’m just ribbing you.
In all honesty, the Blair thing has gotten old for me. But till Summer league starts I expect we’ll have a lot of repeat posts.
by MR on Jul 6, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for taking the high road
And apologies for that first sentence, which adds unnecessary snark.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I really like Frye
I am sorry to hear that he is a liability on the defensive end. In that case its Rasho for me.
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Jul 5, 2009 11:50 PM EDT reply actions
I think we may have lost the plot
with all this talking of another big man we have missed out on the major thing that the 5th pick trade did not address. With PECH leaving we no longer have a victory cigar player. You know the one that records the trillion as we blow out team after team in 09-10. Every successful team has one. The Lakers traded for Morrison because of potential but not the kind we are thinking. With his goofy looks and that dumb stache he used to sport he has unlimited victory cigar potential. Scalibrane in 07-08 had it down pat. Mark madsen doing that stupid dance every year I mean come on they weren’t keeping him around due to any noticeable basketball talent. The Wizards need to celebrate there victories in style especially since we had so little to celebrate about last year.
by ccrun1800 on Jul 6, 2009 12:08 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
i really think
that the “trillion” needs to be better recognized. People underestimate just how difficult it is to be on the court for an entire minute and not record any stats.
Mad Dog is probably available...
But I agree, in parting with Pech, we really did lose one of the most promising trillonaire “prospechs” in the NBA…
On the more serious side, Rasho is the best of the lot that was mentioned… by far, in my estimation… Frye would be acceptable but neither Collins twin nor the one-year wonder Magloire should be on this list.
Jake Voskuhl could also fill the bill, I think.
My pick would be Collins
He sucks as far as stats go, but he’s big and can defend people one on one. I’m not really that worried about rebounding, too, since everyone on the team other than Arenas and Foye is a decent to good rebounder for their position, and it’s not like Collins will be playing that many minutes anyways. Plus, he’s not only another ex-Timberwolf, but one who was with the team back when they were actually good.
What about Oberto?
I thought I read that the Wizards were interested in him. He’s a very good passer and has experience playing on a winning team. I would prefer him over those guys. I like Michael Ruffin though…I never saw (definitely heard) the play against the Raptors.
He would have made sense two years ago
Now, he’s getting old and doesn’t really add anything.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Ruffin
I never saw (definitely heard) the play against the Raptors.
Not Possible!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
You brought it up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNvdhCMYih4&feature=related
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Jul 7, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I can live with any of them besides Magloire
I assume if it’s Collins then he will get 5-10 minutes in about 40 games. The other guys might see 5-15 in 60. The veterans’ is pretty cheap and they’d be good insurance. BUT…
A trade seems to make a lot more sense than an FA. We can get someone better for (more or less) free with our spare parts.
I'll take
Any one of these guys to be last big off the bench.
I still think we need someone a bit better to be the real backup.
Actually
I’d be satisfied with Rasho or Zaza and Collins or Frye.
by MR on Jul 6, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Think Zaza is a big step above these guys...
He made $4 million last year and will be close to the full MLE for someone.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.
I think Frye is a rich man's Oleksiy Pecherov
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.
I'll take Frye and Nesterovic, just like everyone else.
Rasho would be a solid body in the middle, but Frye does have some upside. Neither would be a bad scrap-heap pickup at all.
But I’ll pass on Magloire or ANY Collins.
The Washington Wizards: providing career scoring nights for unknown opposing bench players since 2004.
frye's best
I’d add frye to go with Foy and democratic strategist david frum so we can chat like giants to get them off the bench: Free Frye Foy Frum!
I agree. His defense isn’t great but I like the idea of having a solid offensive option in the low block when the team is in it’s half-court offense. I like Haywood, but he scares the hell out of me whenever he touches the ball. McGee isn’t ready for that type of offense and maybe never will be that type of player. And I am not sold on Blatche in that half-court offense role. I could live with the lack of defense from Frye if he offerred another dimension to the game coming off the bench.
Your meme here.
he ain't that
Frye is not a low block offensive threat. He is a face up forward that likes jumpers as much as Blatche does.
I wouldn't say he's Tim Duncan
But I think he’s got more of a polished game than the guys we have now. The low block offense threat was probably not the best way to describe what I meant. I just meant a guy that you can throw the ball to and not be afraid he’s just going to have it knocked out of his hands 5 seconds later.
Your meme here.
I just meant a guy that you can throw the ball to and not be afraid he’s just going to have it knocked out of his hands 5 seconds later.
To be fair, that’s probably because he will have shot it instead.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
to be fair
I actually like the kid a lot (Frye). He just doesn’t fit this roster. His big issue is finding consistent PT and that’s not going to be here for him.
But which is more cringe-worthy
Frye taking a quick shot, or McGee taking the same shot. I just worry more about McGee in the half-court offense if/when the playoffs start.
This could all be a moot point, I guess. There are a few teams that have Frye on their radar and the Wiz weren’t listed. San Antonio, Phoenix, Cleveland & Denver.
Your meme here.
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