Pecking order
by CJHutch on Jul 4, 2009 10:22 AM EDT
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PrintWhere do we fall in the Eastern Conference pecking order?
Orlando, Cleveland, and Boston – all better than us.
Miami, Chicago, and Atlanta – all in the playoffs, all have talented young cores. Wade is better than anyone we have, and has championship experience. Rose may be better than anyone we have. Atlanta is very deep, very big, and very athletic.
Philly – made the playoffs WITHOUT Elton Brand. Will he be able to integrate better with the team and improve them?
Detroit – made the playoffs, and changing Gordon for Iverson will be better for chemistry, while Villenueva for Wallace will pay out over the long haul.
Charlotte is young and improving every year. They are getting close to the playoffs.
So, where do we fit in this mix?
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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Wizards are 4th in the East
Not as good as Orlando & Cleveland – these two teams are the best in the East.
The Wizards are close to Boston – and if both clubs are healthy, I give a slight edge to Boston (even if they get Rasheed Wallace).. but Boston is getting old, and they are starting to show their age (injuries)
Toronto made a big move stealing Turkoglu away from Portland. They have improved their roster (Turkoglu, Chris Bosh, Andrea Bargnani, and Jose Calderon) They drafted rookie DeMar DeRozan to be their Shooting Guard; and they traded with Philly to pick up banger and rebounder Reggie Evans. They need depth… but I don’t think they’ll be able to get it using Vet minimum contracts. I still think Washington has a better (and deeper) team.
Atlanta is very big, very deep – but they may lose Zaza Pachulia, Bibby and Josh Smith.
Miami has Wade – always dangerous. But I don’t think they have enough weapons around him; and they have not done much in the off-season. I think they’re waiting for the 2010 FA class… saving their cap space.
Chicago and Philly are about where they were last year.
I don’t like the moves they have made, so I think Detroit falls down some (probably out of the Playoffs)… I just don’t see Gordon and Villenueva as being upgrades over Billups and Rasheed Wallace. They may also lose Antonio McDyess – their lone inside defender.
Indiana and Charlotte could be fighting for the last Playoff bearth, perhaps with Philly and Chicago.
Cleveland
Orlando
Boston
Washington
Toronto
Miami
Atlanta
Philadelphia
Chicago & Indiana & Charlotte
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Chicago's worse than last year
Detroit’s better. They probably swap places. Otherwise, I mostly agree. Atlanta’s not getting any better. Miami could get better, but they’re basically playing for 2010. Philly is a bit dangerous because they’re getting a real coach (who is an upgrade on Cheeks/DiLeo) and getting their healthy star back (Brand).
I say fourth or fifth. Fourth because we have better coaching and continuity than Philly.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Ok
Toronto will not be as good as people think. DeRozen is not ready. Boston is too old and will break down. If we can have average health and with the improvement I expect from the new offense and defense to be much better. The most talented team hardly ever wins the championship. It is usually the team that comes together and focuses at the right times. That is who usually wins championships.
I think that the Bulls will be better, everyone else about the same
Toronto kind of scares me, since they seem to be a lot better than their record ever indicates, but I don’t know how good they can be as long as Bargnani or Bosh is playing center. Chicago’s going to be better because Rose will have improved, Deng will be healthy, and Thomas and Noah will have another year under their belts. I think that Boston will decline a bit and that their age and lack of depth will catch up with them. Philly will be about the same, although they could fall off a bit if Miller leaves. Atlanta actually doesn’t scare me at all, since they really have very little depth, only one guy who can efficiently create offense, and Bibby will be a year older and maybe even gone. Detroit will be about as good as last year, since they’ll lose Rasheed Wallace.
I think that we’re right behind the top three teams in the league. Miami is still a one man show unless Beasley makes a huge jump this year, and they’re probably the closest to us of all of our main competitors. That said, if we stay healthy and someone else gets injured, we could easily move up to the third or even second seed in the East. I think that we’re good enough to win 50 games even if one of our main guys gets injured, and the only teams that scare me as far as matchups are Boston because of Rondo’s quickness and Cleveland because of Shaq and Lebron’s ability to draw fouls from big men.
The Bulls lost their best scorer and only other initiator other than Rose
They won’t be better at all. In fact, I doubt they make the playoffs.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 4, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Wizards are the X-factor
I think that the Wizards have the elite of the East quaking due to the fact that the we have undergone the largest make over in the off-season. We were a 19 win team that added an all-star point guard, a center that is prone to put up good to great numbers in a contract year and two guards who started for there former team. Name one team that has added that much during this off-season. We have a solid bunch of reserves with young budding big men prime to take the next big step in there NBA careers. Our ceiling right now is unknown so I have no problem putting us right there with the best in the east.
Toronto is the wild card
I think Orlando stayed about the same (losing Gortat and Hedo – but gaining Vince Carter)… They’ll make another move to pick up a vet Center to play the 8-10 minutes behind Dwight Howard… As a matter of fact, they’ll be in direct competition with the Wizards for that 8-10 minute player… (Guess who I think wins that battle and gets the player?).
I think that Hedo Turkoglu makes the Toronto Raptors much better. It gives them two excellent distributors (Calderon), and Turkoglu is another 4th quarter “go to” guy – so teams can’t load up on Bosh. A very nice upgrade over Shawn Marion. Bargnaini is an improving big man. They picked up Reggie Evans, who should help on the boards and gives them another banger inside along with Pops Mensah-Bonsu. They drafted DeMar DeRozan, who they expect eventually to take over the SG position from Anthony Parker…
Along with the Wizards, I expect Toronto to make a big jump this year.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Aren't the Raptors going to lose Mensah-Bonsu?
I thought that they had to renounce the rights to him in order to sign Turkoglu. He’d be a good fit in Houston or Orlando (other than Howard, do they have anyone who can average more than eight rebounds per 40 minutes now?), although I’d love to steal him away.
by pantslessyoda1 on Jul 4, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
In direct contrast
to all of my doomsday prognosticating lately, I’m going to go out on a limb and say we finish 3rd. I know this is way too premature, and a million things can happen between now and October, but this is my gut feeling. While there’s no way to tell how the rest of the summer plays out, I’m gonna assume (and hope, and wish, and pray) that Ernie gets the one or two bigs we need. If that happens, we should be ok.
So here’s how I see it. I know that I said Cleveland, Orlando, and Boston are better than us. But that’s on paper. In reality, they all have question marks, maybe as much as us.
Orlando made a great run this year, but they’re system is flawed. They live and die by the jumpshot. Sure, they have the best big guy in the league, but I think they tend to under-utilize him. Maybe Carter gives them the slashing to balance it out, or maybe he becomes a jumpshooter as well, who knows. (Of course, the EXACT same thing can be said about our perimeter oriented team, but that’s a different argument.)
Cleveland is a one and a half man show. But their 1-2 punch COULD be the best in the league. If Shaq plays like he did last year, they’ll probably win it all. If him and Lebron can’t find away to give Lebron the spotlight, it could be the Titanic.
Boston – older. A LOT older. Ray Allen may be done, and I think they know it. I also think Rondo is over rated. Players always get overhyped coming off a championship, and playing with their big 3 is gonna make any decent PG look good. These 2 are the reasons why they made that ridiculous trade offer to Detroit. Garnett is coming off injury, and you never know what’s gonna happen. If he’s not 100%, they’re done. But, even if he is healthy, I think we match up pretty good against them, enough to give us the edge. Remember, we had their number the year they won it all, and we beat them last year undermanned. Their guards are all 1 dimensional, so there’s no way they can keep up with us there. Pierce and Butler always cancel each other out. Garnett will dominate, but he doesn’t really take over the game. Jamison can do enough to counteract him. Which means that Arenas is the standout. Throw in Foye, Miller, and Young, and I think we have them beat.
Of course, it is June, so we’ll see.
quite true
while you can’t argue the potential upside, the downside could be VERY interesting to watch. Shaq tends to throw stones when he doesn’t win. And with him as Lebron’s top Witness, the burden falls hard on the both of them. Kobe and Wade won with Shaq. If Lebron can’t, what does that say about him? Kobe won without another all world player, Shaq hasn’t. If he doesn’t do it this year, where does that leave his legacy? Also, Shaq has only won while playing for 2 of the best coaches ever. Sorry Cleveland, but Mike Brown falls FAR short in that category.
How is Mike Brown still employed
I think he pulls it off by just letting Lebron do what he wants. I would kill to sit in on a team meeting with shaq and LeTravel and inept Mike Brown trying to teach them anything basketball related.
Yes
Brown is the ultimate Yes man. I think James wants him kept there so he (LBJ) can run the team himself. If they had a Larry Brown or Avery Johnson type, Lebron would cry all the way through the lane.
Someone I work with said Larry Brown should coach the Cavs
But he and Shaq would be oil and water you would think.
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Jul 4, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Shaq has a habit of getting coaches replaced-
If I recall correctly – Kurt Rambis and Del Harris in LA and Van Gundy in Miami. He only seems to respect championship coaches which Mike Brown is not. But then again he only has a one year contract and if they don’t win the championship this year, I think Brown is gone anyway. Brown whines to the refs just as much as Lebron.
that's because
Brown is Lebron’s puppet. Mike Brown probably looks at Lebron before he talks to make sure it’s OK. I can’t wait to see how that goes over with Shaq.
I know the playoff history
but the fact is that we have always matched up well against Cleveland.
by MR on Jul 4, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
Despite all the times we’ve lost to them, I still think we match up better against them than just about anyone else. Our big problem is that we don’t have anyone who can even sort of match up with Lebron. Caron’s not a good enough defender or athletic enough, Dom isn’t strong or savvy enough, and Blatche isn’t intense enough. Every other matchup either favors us or is a draw, and probably will be that way until they acquire a power forward who can actually score.
by pantslessyoda1 on Jul 5, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally
I think we match up better with Boston. We just have more widespread firepower than Cleveland. But we seem to have Boston’s number. After they smacked us around that 1st game they had KG and Ray Allen, we’ve done pretty good against them. With Cleveland, we’re better than them 2-12, it’s just that they’re #1 is better than 2 or 3 of our best.
He'd want Caron
Not sure if they have anything we’d want though (which says a lot about their ability to compete this year).
You could make a pretty good team with Calhoun’s current NBA players:
Starters: Ben Gordon, Ray Allen, Caron Butler, Charlie Vllanueva, Emeka Okafor
Bench: Rudy Gay, Rip Hamilton, Marcus Williams, Hilton Armstrong, Donyell Marshall, Jake Voshkul, Kevin Ollie, Josh Boone
I'd like to point out
SI.com’s predictions for 08-09 finals from six different writers:
Celtics over Cavs
Celtics over Cavs
Celtics over Cavs
Celtics over Cavs
Cavs over Celtics
Cavs over Celtics
Spurs over Lakers
Spurs over Rockets
Hornets over Lakers
Lakers over Hornets
Lakers over Hornets
Lakers over Hornets
ESPN.com Eastern Conf 08-09 predictions
Celtics
Detroit
Cleveland
Orlando
Phili
Toronto
DC
Rook’s 08-09 EC predictions:
Boston
Orlando
DC
Phili
Detroit
Cleveland
Toronto
Miami
Prada’s 08-09 EC predictions:
1. Boston Celtics: 58-24
2. Cleveland Cavaliers: 54-28
3. Detroit Pistons: 53-29
4. Orlando Magic: 50-32
5. Philadelphia 76ers: 48-34
6. Toronto Raptors: 44-38
7. Indiana Pacers: 40-42
8. Washington Wizards: 40-42
(With Orlando losing in the first round)
What does this tell us?
1) Smart people can be wrong (not a single prediction of Orlando in the finals).
2) They still play the game, so you never know how things will turn out
I'm just glad
to be included in the “smart people” category
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Best/Worst Case
Best Case:
Gil is 100%, Foye and Miller fit in and play well, Blatche and McGee step up. Young, Crit and DM improve. Brendan and Caron stay healthy. 5th big man becomes irrelevant.
Team plays to 2-seed at 58-24, Celts can’t stay healthy, Orlando’s chemistry flops, and Wiz finally beat Cavs in the conference finals. The Lakers just have too much talent and beat the Wiz in 6.
Worst Case:
Gil can’t stay healthy, misses most of the season, and isn’t himself when he plays. McGee continues to get abused on D while Brendan and Caron miss 25 games apiece. Blatche takes a step back and Jamison starts to show his age. Only the additions of Flip, Foye and Miller prevent a repeat of last year as the team struggles to 33 wins.
Most Likely:
Arenas has to shake off some rust and adjust his game a bit. The team plays terrible D, but lights it up on offense. Caron and Brendan miss 25 games apiece, but Miller, DM and big men do an adequate job filling in. One of the young guys improves quite a bit. The team plays up and down, gets the 6 or 7 seed with about 44 wins, and loses in the first round of the playoffs.
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