Nick Young - future starter?
by CJHutch on Jul 17, 2009 12:54 AM EDT
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PrintOK, with all the talk going around about the futures of Blatche and McGee, nobody has really broached this subject. At least as far as I've seen. So I wanted to get the vibe from you guys: Does anyone see Nick Young as being our starting 2 guard anytime in the (near) future?
Nobody disputes that he's got some growing up to do. But I don't think anyone disputes his talent either. Not to mention the fact that he's the prototypical NBA shooting guard. 6'6-6'7, long, athletic, can shoot AND slash. It's been awhile since we've had that around here. Obviously the last guy was Jerry Stackhouse, though he switched between there and SF upon Jordan's arrival. But looking at the 2, Young and Stackhouse are very similar. Similar bodies, similar playing styles. The biggest difference in my opinion is Stackhouse had more of a meantstreak, or a more aaggressive attitude at least. And that's the biggest knock on Young - he's too layed back. I personally didn't like Stackhouse, but not because of his game. The fact is, if Nick could find a way to emulate Stack ON the court, we could have a very, VERY good shooting guard on our hands for the next 8 years or so.
Again, as with all of the Wizards youth, we are talking about the fulfillment of potential. But THIS is a topic I haven't really seen broached on here. Not as long as I've been on anyway.
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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He definitely has the talent
it’s just his overall game(High usage, little to no defense/rebounding/passing) doesn’t mesh well with our current starters.If, as has been suggested, Jamison moves to the bench to be replaced with a improved Blatche giving a Defensive boost then we can def. fit him in. The real pickle is finding someone who can play good D and mesh well with the big 3. As it is right now if you have a below average defender at the 1 through 4 then Haywood would have to grow some extra arms to do all the defending. I can see him starting with Foye, miller and AJ leading the second team. It would give us more balanced lineups. We’ll see.
Why not this year?
Seems that perhaps the key criteria for determining who should start at SG this season is who is the best defender at that position. If healthy, Stevenson probably has an edge, but he’s only a slightly above average defender.
From a reputational standpoint, Miller, Foye and Young seem about equivalent, but in truth Young was a pretty good defender last season. His plus-minus numbers supported that, and he led the team last year in opposing player’s PER (those numbers were better than Miller and Foye, too). If he could make a leap on the defensive end and establish himself as clearly a good wing defender, he should start.
NY doesn't fit as a starter...
at least not to me. He seems like a 6th man to me, with the way this team is set up. He comes in and dispels Arenas and the starters and just attacks. Our bench scoring to rip apart other teams secondary unit. Miller, to me, should be the starter just because he spreads the defense and is a more deadly outside shooter, which fits perfectly with Arenas.
On a team that needed the ball to run through their SG and needed a lot of scoring from there, then Young fits very nicely. But on our team, where we have 3, potentially 4, all star players starting, Young fits as the 6th to come in and just score.
Uno
Nick does 1 thing, score. He doesn’t rebound, get teammates shots, no steals no blocks, plus average defense. At his core he is a chucker.
The way this team is constructed there is no way you have that guy starting with AJ, Caron and Gil. He’s a good fit as a lead scorer off the bench. Thats all he ever will be unless he decides to play the game the right way and not make it about him and his shots/points.
by Jheiser3 on Jul 17, 2009 8:32 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Role Model
Nick Young has been working with Flip on shooting off of screens. A player I think Nick Young should model is Richard Hamilton. Below I compare the statistics of Nick Young from last season to Richard Hamilton from 2003-04, when the Pistons won the NBA Finals. The points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, and turnovers are all based on per 36 minute ratios.
Player PER Pts TS% Rbs Ast Stl Blk TOV ====== === === === === === === === === Richard Hamilton 16.8 17.9 52.2% 3.6 4.0 1.3 0.2 2.7 Nick Young 13.1 17.5 53.0% 2.9 1.9 0.8 0.4 1.8
As you can see, if Nick Young can only improve his shooting off of screens and his passing just a little bit, he can be good enough to start at shooting guard on a championship caliber team.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Yes agreed
I have always thought Young’s model should be Hamilton. But that team was constructed very differently than ours. Detroit needed a gunning chucker because they frequently couldn’t generate enough offense. Much like Iverson in Phili or Houston with the Knicks. That’s not really what we need at this point. I think Young would be more valuable elsewhere, say in San Antonio.
Mostly though I always felt like Rip in Detroit worked his game within the offense. I don’t feel that Young does that yet (although I missed the second half of the first summer league game when he reportedly did just that).
From what I've seen of the first two SL Games
Flip Saunders is turning Nick into “Rip Hamilton 2”…
I swear, there were times in the First SL game that Young reminded me of Rip (or even Reggie Miller) – running around baseline screens, reversing direction, stopping and starting, running around high post screens…… But most importantly, he was moving with a purpose – and doing it all at 100% speed…
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I agree
Nick looks like Rip Hamilton out here in summer league, which I think is a good thing. Nick has a ton of talent but a lot of success in this league is about harnessing talent and carving out a niche, and I think the coaching staff is doing a good thing by forcing a niche onto Nick.
As for the question of future starter: Yes I think he can, but he has quite a bit of ways to go. On a team loaded with offensive weapons like ours, you’d want your starting SG to be efficient, be able to handle the ball with care and pass, contribute on the boards and really play solid defense and these are things that Nick just doesn’t do well at this point in his career. Nick’s floor game and basketball IQ is probably a year or two behind JR Smith’s is at this point, and JR Smith doesn’t even start for a contender.
Btw, I don’t think Stackhouse is a good comparison. Stackhouse was/is a bull. Stack spent a lot of time playing PF when he was in college at UNC, and when he entered the NBA he was an excellent slasher and great at drawing fouls and was just way stronger than Nick will probably ever become.
I don't
particularly remember Stack playing PF. I could be wrong though. I thought they primarily played Sheed at PF, with Montross at C. BUT that was like 15 years ago, so I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that I’m way off.
Anyway, I agree Stackhouse is/was stronger that Young. And, as I said, has more of a meantstreak (probably because Stack is pretty much an a$$hole). But their skills are similar. I think NY is a better pure shooter, while Stack easily has the edge in getting to the basket. I’m sure there is a better comparison out there, I just used Stack because he was the last “prototypical” SG we had here. What I should have stressed more is that NY should use that as the MODEL for his game.
It's less about NY
and more about the rest of the starters. He has starters skills it’s just they duplicate our current starters. If we had a lineup like the old pistons one he could start fine since they had great passers/defenders/rebounders and could have used a guy who can get buckets. Unfortunately for NY our starting lineup is already full of All offense/No Defense players.
I think those who are saying he can start, just not on this team are dead on
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
?
Not sure I agree. Can you point to a similar guy starting somewhere? Just glancing over the top 2’s I don’t see anyone as one dimensional as Nick.
JR Smith doesn't start, but he essentially starts for Denver
Others mentioned Rip Hamilton. Ben Gordon. Kelenna Azubuike. Eric Gordon.
He’s not at those players’ level yet, but their games are somewhat similar.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
well
You’re right he doesn’t start. There’s a reason he doesn’t start. Smith can’t defend top 2’s any more than Nick can. He brought effort in the playoffs but racked up as many fouls as defensive plays. thats why Denver went out and traded for Afflalo to start and keep Smith on the bench. Other than that Smith also goes for 2.8 assists in his 27 minutes, and 3 rebounds. He essentially doubles Nick’s output in assists, rebounds, steals and shoots a better % from 3 too.
Ben Gordon hasn’t been a starter for most of his career. Rip puts up over 4 assists per game, defends and rebounds. Azubuike rebounds. The best match is Eric Gordon, the 20 year old rookie for the Clippers.
I don’t see Nick starting anywhere.
Cuttino Mobley and Kerry Kittles
both started for along time. Kittles on teams that went to the finals. Rip does not guard anyone though he is a better pass than NY. How much D or passing does Jamal Crawford do? He can start he’s just so limited he can only start in certain lineups. He has a skill(getting buckets) that is very starter level. Would he make a great starter for every team? NO. But he can start for teams.
by BayAreaBullet on Jul 17, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
so
as long as we construct a team that makes up for everythig Nick doesn’t do, Nick can start? Thats not a powerful argument.
My argument
Was that he could start for teams that needed bucket getters. We don’t have that kind of team though. There are lots of teams that have 1 starter who only has 1 legit NBA skill. NY can start just at present he wouldnt be a great starter. The question if hecould start not if he could be a good one.
by BayAreaBullet on Jul 17, 2009 3:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Come on Jheiser
Nobody’s a perfect player. The only thing people are saying that disagree with you is that Nick’s strengths are more helpful to certain teams than the Wizards. Clearly he’s got to develop a little more too.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
At present I don’t think he’s a starter anywhere in the league. Maybe Minnesota.
I have no doubt he could be a starter in the future if he develops his game.
by MR on Jul 17, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
I’m saying if he simply becomes a better version of what he is, he could start for some teams.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Rip rebounds?
His career rebounding percentage is 5.8%. Nick’s is <a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/y/youngni01.htmlhttp://www.basketball-reference.com/players/y/youngni01.html" >5.2%.
Gordon and Smith play starter’s minutes.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
The fact is
Nick is a straight up scorer. Yes, he probably doesn’t fit as a starter for our CURRENT team. Not the way his CURRENT game is constructed. That’s why I said does anyone see him starting for us at some point. I asked this mainly because every other SG on our roster has been thrown out there as the starter. I personally think Nick is the best SCORER among the SG’s on our roster. But, you’re all right, the makeup of our roster as it stands calls for a more well rounded SG. Though I would still start him over Stevenson. I’m also curious if his game would play out more “well rounded” if he played more minutes, being forced more into the flow of the game. Those 36 minute “projections” don’t take into account the ebbs and flows of different stages in a game. Since he’s been here, Nick’s been called upon to provide the scoring punch off the bench. The previous coaching staff(s) never really asked him to do more. That’s not to say they didn’t WANT him to do more, just that that wasn’t his primary role.
To me the problem is not so much that he is only a scorer, but that his scoring necessitates him dominating the ball so much. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but it’s really like a poor-man’s Iverson. Or like a guard version of the old Barkley back-to-the-basket-pound-the-ball-for 20-seconds offense. I don’t think it creates a team offensive flow and I think it detracts from the other players’ offense.
Dribbledribbledribbledribble shoot.
by MR on Jul 17, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
You obviously haven't seen him this Summer
In the two SL Games, he has not taken more than one or two shots outside the Offense…
Most of his shots have come off screens, back picks, transition or kick-outs for catch-and-shoot 3’s
ALL of those were within the Offense…. I also take exception to formula0’s implication that Nick Young does not “handle the ball with care”…Nick has a perfectly acceptable Turn Over ratio (9.0 – second best on the team last year).
Ray Allen = 8.9
Kobe Bryant = 8.2
Dwyane Wade = 9.3
Manu Ginobili = 10.2
Young was in the top 1/3 of Shooting Guards in TO Ratio… Not bad for a 2nd year player…
Of course, he’s just now learning how to come off screens, and do basic defensive footwork…..
If he can learn to dish out a couple more assists per night, and snag a rebound every once in a while -he’d be a VERY, VERY good Starting Shooting Guard.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I saw the first half of game one.
Dribbledribbledribbledribble shoot.
I saw much of game 2, but broadband made it hard to analyze.
by MR on Jul 17, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
you just
described the 1 on 5 games these kids have ingrained in them from the jump. They spend their whole lives being king of the court, the best player in the gym, so it’s always an adjustment when they get to the league. It took Jordan at least 4 or 5 years to shed that rep. Iverson never did because his teams were built around his one on one skills. Stackhouse was a ballhog for a long time, and still is on some level, which is why they had him coming off the bench. It’s the Sportcenter, ‘AND1, “Look what I can do” mentality these kids have grown up with. ESPECIALLY the ones with the talent to consistently break down their opponent off the dribble. It’s really Catch 22, because it instills the confidence in them to think they can beat anyone in front of them, but they need to have it pulled fromtheir DNA when they get into (big time) college and/or the NBA. It’s also the reason why so many exceptional athletes who grew up top dog on their home courts wash out of the league (Dennis Hopson, Harold Miner, J.R. Rider, etc.) All they know is dominating the ball and beating the guy in front of them, but when they get in the League, the guy in front of them isn’t so easily beaten, and they have nothing else to offer.
Nick Young could be the latter, but hopefully he’s the former.
If Jamison moved to the bench
NY has a chance at starting. If blatche started we would be stronger defensively and NY’s scoring would be needed. Then Jamison and Foye could come off the bench early for NY and Blatche. That’s assuming NY shows he can score consistently without being the first option and blatche shows he can be an above average defender. That could easily work. So to answer your question I can see him starting for us this season or the next under certain circumstances he can’t control. Unfortunately our team is so poorly put together that we need a 2 guard with a very specific skill set to hide the glaring weaknesses of the big 3. I think Jamison should move to the bench ASAP regardless though. If he moves there soon then NY should def be the starter cuz I like the idea of letting Foye be the stud of the second team cuz he contributes in so many ways and would be better when he is the focus of the offense.
by BayAreaBullet on Jul 17, 2009 5:20 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Somebody with some Stats help me out here
Nick Young is NOT that bad a defender…. And especially the 2nd half of last year, he showed marked improvement…
Maybe Mike Prada or bwoodsxyz can come up with Adjusted plus/minus numbers for the second half of last year (or other stats) that back up my assertion…. but I can also tell you that I’ve seen noticeable effort from Nick on the Defensive end in Summer League.
I have some video from the first 2 SL games that illustrate how NIck is using better footwork, and using his quickness on Defense….. unfortunately, my PC is dead right now… but I’ll upload as soon as I can…
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
He's not bad, but he's not as good as the numbers indicate, I don't think
Man-to-man, he does well, but off the ball, he struggles. In fact, McGuire is very much the same way.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I agree
He’s always contesting shots, and he’s so fast and tall that it’s tough for people to get over or around him. I think that if he can learn to come off of screens on offense, he should be able to figure out how to fight through them on defense.
by pantslessyoda1 on Jul 18, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, why do you want to bench AJ? To start Blatche? And that will make our defense better?
by MR on Jul 17, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I mentioned that is was conditoned on blatche being able to play consistent defense. But yes it would make us better on D. Blatche can be a great defender if he keeps his head there. Him and Haywood would make it tough for guards to score in the paint and they would change shots. To be fair anyone replacing AJ would be an improvement. He is the worst defender on the team and puts even less effort into it than blatche or NY and he doesn’t have their physical gifts.
by BayAreaBullet on Jul 17, 2009 6:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He reminds me
of a young Ray Allen. Great at scoring, can’t do much else. And Ray has build his career on that, with small improvements in other core skills (rebounding, assists for a short time), as well as a larger improvement in shot selection and 3-point shooting. No, I don’t predict that Nick is the next Jesus Shuttlesworth, but that’s the guy off of whom who he should model his game and career. If he expands his scoring prowess (he’s working on shooting off of screens this offseason, as we all know), then he can find himself as a starter in a couple of years. But the real reason I don’t see him starting for this team is that I don’t see the spot opening up for him in time. If we keep Miller after this year, then he and Arenas are likely the starters for a while. Young Nick will have to overtake Miller, accept a Ben Gordon-like role as sixth man, or leave town for a starting opportunity. I think all three of these options are equally likely.
Look Mr. James, I lived near the Chesapeake Bay for the first 21 years of my life, at times as close as a 5 minute walk. I know about crabs. And let me tell you something about crabs: they travel every time they get in the lane.
We will give up 130 points a game if Miller starts
He’s def. starter material we just can’t start miller cuz due to poor teamconstruction we are handcuffed and have to start a better defender. Love Miller but he’s not a good enough defender to cover for the big 3. This is how guys like Greg buckner get to start games. I think DS and Foye are our only real options unless NY becomes an above average defender. That could happen but Im not holding my breath.
by BayAreaBullet on Jul 17, 2009 6:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You're right, Miller is pretty bad at defense
but there’s no one on the team who is good at defense who can start. I honestly think Stevenson is done. He hasn’t ever been as good as advertised on D, and hasn’t even been good at defense at all for a couple of seasons. 07-08 he decided to up his offensive game and his defense took a step back. Last year, everything took a couple of steps back, and then the injuries happened and it all took a couple more steps back.
In Miller’s defense, I don’t see him as a liability on defense, just not good at it. But that’s how I see the Big 3 as well, so I see why people are opposed to adding yet another guy like that to the starting five. But what else can we do? I will not support Blatche starting over Jamison.
Look Mr. James, I lived near the Chesapeake Bay for the first 21 years of my life, at times as close as a 5 minute walk. I know about crabs. And let me tell you something about crabs: they travel every time they get in the lane.
If blatche can't take it to another level this year
Then we would have to make major moves next offseason. I mean he either gets it or he doesn’t so if he can’t start over Jamison this year then we either have to find a better defending PF who can start or swap Arenas for a better defending PG. I agree with you about miller but not about the Big 3. CB can be a decent defender. AJ is one of the 10 worst defenders in the league. He is routinely voted by sportswriters and his peers as one of the very worst defenders in the league. Arenas can be a decent defender but hasnever shown the desire or effort. Foye by all acounts is a plus defender at the PG spot and average with upside against SG’s. So he is an option at the 2 as he could take the other teams best guard and have Arenas take the other. Not ideal but it can work.
by BayAreaBullet on Jul 17, 2009 7:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree about Foye’s defensive prowess, but don’t think he can handle being a starter yet. He should be our combo guard off the bench — point when NY is in, two guard when Crittenton is in. That would give him fewer minutes and allow him to play more in the fourth quarter as our defensive guard in close games or when opposing teams try to mount comebacks. While I want a starter good at defense, since he doesn’t seem to me to be ready to start, I’d rather have him as the next best thing, which is a good defender who comes in fresh later in the game.
As far as the Big 3, I did actually write to say that CB is slightly above average in my last post, but then left that out. He is above average and ‘Tawn is below average, but as a group, I still say that they are non-liability defenders — they won’t scare anyone, but they won’t crumble when a ball-handler heads their way. Specifically with AJ, though: I think he’s better than you’re giving him credit for. Not the best man-defender, but he’s above average at steals for his position, and a GREAT rebounder. I’ve seen him many times come from outside the paint, reach his arms in, and grab the rebound that both centers thought they’d be fighting over. You can’t discount a skill like that on defense. He limits the number of offensive boards (and therefore second chances) that opposing teams can get.
Look Mr. James, I lived near the Chesapeake Bay for the first 21 years of my life, at times as close as a 5 minute walk. I know about crabs. And let me tell you something about crabs: they travel every time they get in the lane.
I agree with alot of what you say
I too prefer Foye off the bench. I think he is more than ready to start but I love the idea of him being the leader of the second team as he can do so much and affect the game in so many ways. He can be focused on better off the bench. I kindo see D-mac and Critt as the energy D guys off the bench. CB can be slightly above average at D when motivated and healthy but that’s only half the season. As for AJ he is known for being one of the VERY worst defenders in the league. Steals is a horrible way to analyze D. If AJ runs back on D(he likes to go for strips or argue with the refs instead) he just roams instead of covering a man. If his man tries to post AJ concedes position and tries to steal the entry pass. This allows way more dunks than steals. He also roams freely looking for cheap strips allowing his man to cut freely and get easy buckets. He might get a steal or 2 but people score at will on him. I also don’t consider rebounding part of defense. Is Amare a great defender? He averages way more boards than AJ. AJ is a good rebounder but a horrible ball and team defender. That is widely acknowledged. As a whole the big 3 is a total defensive liability. They have to score at a ridiculous pace just to outscore their opponents. A reason for optimism is the fact that it comes from lack of effort. So if Flip plays them less minutes we might see improvement.
by BayAreaBullet on Jul 17, 2009 9:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Here We Go Again
Everybody continues to wring their hands over our poor individual defenders, as if Flip is just going to leave everybody out there on their own islands and hope for the best. There was a reason Flip wrote a book on the match-up zone defense. He doesn’t need great individual defenders to get this team to at least above average defensively. With the scoring capability we will have with Arenas, Jamison, Butler, and Miller, we won’t need to play better than average defense to advance deep into the playoffs.
Prada brought this up several weeks ago, and it was such a great point that I continue to hammer on it. Let me repost this again for all to see and consider.
2. Coaching matters: The NBA Finals should shatter once and for all that coaching doesn’t really matter. Look at Stan Van Gundy’s job with the Magic. It is an absolute miracle that the Magic finished as the top defensive team in the league this season. Gilbert Arenas is just as quick laterally as Jameer Nelson and Rafer Alston, except Arenas is taller. Caron Butler is way quicker than Hedo Turkoglu, and Antawn Jamison is just as much a tweenter as Lewis. Dominic McGuire is as much a “stopper” from the looks of things as Courtney Lee. Yet Van Gundy found a way to get those guys to be a part of a league-best defensive unit. He built a sound scheme and got them to commit maximum effort defensively. Previous coaches couldn’t do that with those guys. Sure, Dwight Howard helped, but it takes way more than one guy to make a defense. Van Gundy’s coaching made all the difference. Think about that before you immediately dismiss offhand that an Arenas/Jamison/Butler trio can never be passable defensively.
So everybody please read that, reread that, and let it ruminate in your mind a little. And then repeat after me: we don’t need great individual defenders to play good defense. We don’t need great individual defenders to play good defense. If Orlando can have the top ranked defense with Dwight Howard and 4 sucky defenders, then we can be at least above average with Brendan Haywood and 4 sucky defenders.
The reason our defense has sucked these past four seasons has a lot more to do with a head coach who couldn’t teach and rarely practiced defense than it does with our dearth of individual defenders. So please, can we get over this huge concern about our defense? It’s up to Flip to make it happen. I believe he will get the job done.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
this is
a great point. But I will expand on it a little.
we don’t need great individual defenders to play good defense. We don’t need great individual defenders to play good defense.
No, we don’t. But it would help. And it’s not out of the question for us to HAVE those defenders right here in house. Antawn Jamison is the only player on the team I can think of who doesn’t have the capability to be at least an above average defender. Good (or great) defenders aren’t born, they’re made. All it takes is commitment. And coaching. The coaching factor is two-fold. First, a good defensive coach can teach the tricks of the trade to any above average athlete (of which we are stacked). Second, some coaches put guys in the position to be a great defender. Pick them to carry the (lock down defender) title. Larry Brown did it with Eric Snow, Aaron Mckie, and later Tayshaun Prince. Phil Jackson has one on every team he coaches. Same with Popovich and Chuck Daly. It’s what the great coaches do. They recognize the guy’s who want to be challenged, and use that to motivate them to fill different roles.
I would buy that if....
Brendan Haywood was as good as Howard. He’s not. Just because Arenas is more athletic than Nelson/alston doesn’t mean he tries on defense. He doesn’t. Courtney lee may be a wash with D-mac defensively but iasi much better offensively he made them a better team than D-mac does for us. AJ and Arenas don’t try on D so no one else does outside of Mcguire who needs to to stay in the NBA. We play sloppy team D. It’s not cuz of physical limitations it’s effort. We have 7 players with the physical makeup to be great defenders it’s just we have never tried and 2 of our leaders are the worst culprits. Maybe Flip can change that. Plus how far would Orlando have gotten if KG was healthy or Danny Ferry wasn’t an inept GM?
by BayAreaBullet on Jul 17, 2009 9:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The point is
1) Orlando was the best defense in the league last year. How far they got is irrelevant to that discussion.
2) Good coaching can solve problems of effort and scheme, as Stan Van Gundy and the Magic indicate. Besides, it’s very difficult (in my opinion) to tease out effort and scheme separately. They’re too intertwined. Improving one tends to improve the other.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
your right. I should have taken scheme/coaching into consideration more. I don’t know if comparing our line-up with Orlando’s is really an apple to apple comparison though. I guess my biggest concern over our team short term and long term is that I feel we have alot invested in the Big 3 and their weaknesses seem to compound each others instead of having them complement each other. Who knows I should probably wipe the slate clean due to the coaching change and not assume their will be the same lack of effort.
by BayAreaBullet on Jul 18, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I definitely think there's some truth to what you're saying
It’s not an apples to apples comparison, that’s for sure.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
This is why
I’m stressing the point that none of these guys are defensive liabilities. That’s what you can’t have in any defensive scheme. If someone is a prime candidate to let opposing players do whatever they want on offense, then it doesn’t matter how good your scheme is, only that someone is getting into his comfort zone and punishing you for it.
But where I do want good man defense is in our key reserves. Foye coming in to keep guards from driving, McGuire forcing bad shots and tough passes, and even McGee getting those blocks. Those three guys will be keys to our defensive success throughout games, as far as I see. They don’t have it in them to play starter minutes yet, but that means that we’ll keep them fresher all night, and bring them in as needed for momentum swings, big stops, etc. I’ve always believed that an offensive-oriented team, like the Wizards, should have a defense-oriented “second line” (to steal a phrase from hockey). That allows you to rest your starters and keep opposing players from getting a lead with your top scorers on the bench.
Look Mr. James, I lived near the Chesapeake Bay for the first 21 years of my life, at times as close as a 5 minute walk. I know about crabs. And let me tell you something about crabs: they travel every time they get in the lane.
none of these guys are defensive liabilities.
Rashard Lewis was always seen as a defensive liability in Seattle. Hedo Turkoglu has never been considered anything more than a below-average defender before SVG. Many felt Jameer Nelson’s lack of size also made him into a defensive liability.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I wasn't talking about them
I was talking about the Wizards Big 3… See my comments above.
Look Mr. James, I lived near the Chesapeake Bay for the first 21 years of my life, at times as close as a 5 minute walk. I know about crabs. And let me tell you something about crabs: they travel every time they get in the lane.
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