The Washington Wizards have made a contract offer to former Spurs center Fabricio Oberto, traded to the Detroit Pistons as part of the package that brought Richard Jefferson to the Spurs in a three-team, pre-draft trade with the Milwaukee Bucks last month.
Terms of Washington’s offer to Oberto aren’t known. He was released by the Pistons after the deal was completed. Detroit remains obligated to pay $1.9million of Oberto’s partially guaranteed $3.8 million contract.
To be honest, I'm a little shocked that an offer was made this early in the off-season, but if the team can get him for the low level exemption, I'll be satisfied.
UPDATE: Oberto's agent tells Michael Lee that "nothing is imminent."
over 2 years ago
Jake Whitacre
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I am assuming, as you are...
that (1) the price was right and (2) Oberto has a gallon or two left in his tank.
If he signs, then the last slot is probably destined to go to Josh Heytfelt unless he proves to be a total stiff in Las Vegas this week. My guess is that Josh will play OK and will be about the only person in town who does not do any partying… after Pech’s nice game for the Wolves JV a lot is riding on this!
I doubt the Wizards fill the last roster spot
Unless Heytvelt (or Aminu) really show something at SL – I think the roster is now set.
They’ll go into the season with 14 guys… and one open roster spot.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Abe should hold onto his money
After all, Heytvelt or Aminu will most likely be available for 20-day contracts if (FSM forbid) something should happen to create a hole on our roster.
by morethesamewiz on Jul 14, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I like this move assuming he will sign for the LLE
Nice safe move. I would have preferred Wilcox, but he would most likely cost more.
Oberto
Essentially, he does the same things that Darius Songaila did. Songaila is a much better outside shooter; but Oberto is a better rebounder.
Oberto is also a very good passer – plays good, solid positional defense – and he’s a scrappy, hard nosed guy.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
He's a perfect end-of-the-bench guy...
Which is what he’ll be. But I think he probably sees more potential opportunity for minutes here than most other situations; after all, one injury to a big and a lot more PT suddenly opens up.
Glue guy
He may the scrappiest player to play for the Wizards in recent memory, which is just the guy McGee and Blatche need showing them the fundamentals and sniffing down their necks if they get “inconsistent” (read lazy). Low usage rate and a master flopper (let the games begin, Cleveland!), Oberto is the perfect signing and with his grittiness he can very capably be the team goon from time to time, the guy we send out to pester the opposing teams center and get him off his game while Haywood rests.
And he’ll be in the running with Stevenson for best facial hair next year.
I’m excited
Yes sir!
I agree very much about the developmental aspect of having a savvy mud dog around to impart some rough neck post maneuverings onto our young fellows.
Of course Haywood has plenty of tricks too, but it only stands to reason that stereo instruction will do better and feature some different tricks.
I see him sitting, unless the other team has a good quality post threat we need to counter (i.e. the playoffs)
And that hair aspect crossed my mind as well; while he often looks somewhat mangy in a Hockey player sort of way, there are a couple Fabio shots floating on the web.
nice choice…his contract expires at the end of the year. that is what we want
by les boulez bomber on Jul 14, 2009 9:57 AM EDT reply actions
at the end of the day, counting detroits contibution and the money we received from trading the 2nd round pick, he will cost us:
7.6m after the luxury tax
less 2.5m from trade
less 1.9m from detroit
totals 3.2m
signing blair would have cost us about 1.6m, non guaranteed
but oberto is a one year deal. blair would be multiyear but not guaranteed
i hope he is twice as good.
which was the right move?
by les boulez bomber on Jul 14, 2009 10:04 AM EDT reply actions
not sure about that math.
Which Center is Blair going to defend? This isn’t the Big East where the best Center is a bean pole with no offense. And in the NBA there won’t be 1 other guy who might block his shot, more like 3 or 4.
Oberto rebounds and defends, he’s a solid short term veteran fix off the bench. He’s the better fit for winning right now.
Too Early to Tell
which was the right move?
We don’t know how good Blair will be in the NBA (summer league does not count). We don’t know whether or not Oberto will be the same player he was when he was the starting center for the Spurs championship team. We don’t know how much we are going to use Oberto during the season or in the playoffs. We don’t know if Brendan will suffer an injury and someone will have to step in at center and contribute major minutes that wasn’t supposed to. We don’t know how good DeJuan Blair can guard NBA centers, other than Hasheem Thabeet that is.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
at this point in time
signing Fab makes way more sense. I’ll take a proven vet (and legit backup C) from championship caliber team on a 1 year deal over an unproven (perhaps undersized) rookie on a multi year deal.
Oberto will be able to contribute immediately on the court, banging away for the 5-10 mpg, even more if needed. And importantly, he should be able to impart more wisdom to AB and McGee.
Your 7.6m after the luxury tax is incorrect. You’re assuming the $3.8m contract Detroit is partially responsible for applies to the Wizards which it doesn’t.
There’s no info on what Oberto would sign for.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jul 14, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
to continue with the Blair v. Oberto comparison
The Wizards can sign Oberto to anywhere from the league vet minimum (~$850,000) and the full bi-annual exemption (~$2,000,000). Because of the luxury tax, those numbers equate to somewhere between $1.7M and $4M.
By choosing to sell the 2nd round draft pick the Wizards save $2.5M plus the cost of the contract at approx $1.6M (after luxury tax, based on lez boulez bomber’s amount, and ignoring that it’s non-guaranteed). That totals $4.1M in savings before figuring in any free agent signings.
So by selling the draft pick and instead signing a FA using the bi-annual exemption the Wizards will save between $100,000 and $2.4M (given that I’m using a lot of $$ approximations).
by Johnnie Futbol on Jul 14, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
i did assume he would sign for the minimum and do not know if that would be true. i used the figure that was posted on the site previously. and oberto’s salary is in question too. so the real number is not known; I agree.
i do respectfully disagree with your use of the word savings. you can not save something you never intended to spend, which was the case with the wiz. if that were true, i could tell my wife i saved us thousands per year. it reminds me of that line from a song: you never give me credit for the things i did not do!
So there is no 4.1m in savings. the only savings will be the difference in cost between signing the two players after all third party contributions are included. so hypothetically speaking, if it would have cost 1.5m to sign blair and instead they spent 2m on oberto, they did not save anything. they simply paid more for a player they felt was a better fit. you can insert your own numbers if you do not think they are valid, then of course, double it because of the tax!
but the tax is really the result of the overpaid players under contract: arenas, jamison, maybe butler if you think, and certainly james. it is not realistic to assign the luxury tax burden on a player the team has to sign to fill out the roster and provide depth.
it is also true that blair would have cost us 2.5m to retain his rights since that is what the pick was worth traded. so he might have cost about 6-8m over three years to find out if he is worth it, plus any luxury taxes. probably the best way to look at is mike james’ contract cost us the opportunity to see if blair develops into anything.
but all that is really not that important in my mind. i was curious if people thought oberto is a better fit for the money. i think he is because he has played center and is listed 3" taller than blair, who is clearly a PF. I think Blair is a space taker with a 265lb legitimate NBA body. and i think he would have been a great, cheap addition if the team was not already above the cap before the draft even began!
by les boulez bomber on Jul 14, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
savings in respect to drafting and keeping Blair
We are of course comparing the costs of adding Oberto with the hypothetical costs of drafting, signing and keeping Blair. That’s how you originally posed the question, and I did the same in my reply.
If Option A for the Wizards is to draft Blair, then their total costs are $1.6M in salary and luxury tax.
If Option B is to sell the pick and sign Oberto, then they get $2.5M in the sale of the pick and then pay between $1.7M and $4M in salary and luxury tax.
The net savings of Option B in comparison to Option A is between the two amounts I mentioned above.
The cheapest option for the Wizards of course would be to sell the pick and go into the season with 13 players on the roster. That of course would also represent savings relative to the other options available.
Also in defense of Grunfeld and the inclusion of “overpaid” players on the Wizards team, I would guess that the vast majority of NBA teams have at least some players that are arguably “overpaid” (and I don’t mean in they “why are professional athletes paid so much?” kinda way). Overall I think Grunfeld has done quite a good job managing money, though I know many on this board would disagree.
Cheers.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jul 14, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
unless
The cheapest option for the Wizards of course would be to sell the pick and go into the season with 13 players on the roster. That of course would also represent savings relative to the other options available.
of course it turns out that Blair is a solid player and would have been a decent contributor for at least the next 3 years. Then we didn’t save anything, and we actually lose. His contract over the next three years would be cheaper than signing a washed up vet every year. This of course is a big IF, so we shall see.
i agree with both of you. oberto replaces blair either at cost or up to about 2m. and my post was really meant to see if you THOUGHT blair was worth keeping versus signing oberto for up to 2m more. but i do like oberto much more than the other back up center names mentioned other than those on a wish list.
by les boulez bomber on Jul 14, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
But Blair
Is simply NOT a center; not no way, not no how. Drafting him would have curtailed the flexibility that Ernie and Flip seem to like in their frontcourt players.
I don't really
want to keep crying over spilled milk, but since when do you use a 2nd round draft pick on a position that you need? You use it on a guy you think may be able to contribute in a year or two* (like Blatche), while hoping he can contribute earlier(like McGuire)*, and maybe holding out a little bit of hope that he turns out much better than expected. *Arenas)
Aside from all that, we don’t JUST need a center. We need frontcourt players period. Rebounding and bulk especially. What if Blair turns out to be a Jason Maxiell or Paul Milsap type? We don’t HAVE to play him at center. We can play AB there.
I think
They are just saying its better too have someone that can play both positions that way all of the bigs you bring in off the bench can play whereever you need them at the time.
I understand that
I’m just saying that you don’t use a draft pick on a position of need. Definitely not a 2nd rounder. You use it for potential. And you use it to build your franchise.
Look, this ship has sailed. Blair is not a Wizard, nor will he be. He may be productive, he may not. My underlying point is that, at some point, we are going to have to start VALUING our draft picks. That’s the only way a franchise gets better AND remains competitive.
This should be the other way around
“I’m just saying that you don’t use a draft pick on a position of need. Definitely not a 2nd rounder. You use it for potential. And you use it to build your franchise.”
I think 1st round draft picks should be used more for potential than position of need and that 2nd round draft picks should be used to fill a need.
I cant find any examples of teams that build their franchise with and around 2nd round draft picks. That is however the case with 1st round draft picks though. A perfect example is Portland with Roy, Aldridge, Bayless, Fernandez, Oden, Batum, and so on.
2nd round draft picks are usually used to fill out rosters and just add little bit of depth to certain positions. People always point out those few examples of players that turned out good but the vast majority of 2nd rounders either dont make teams or dont stay around very long. I think you may be overvaluing 2nd rounders a bit.
well
if you want to get technical, OUR franchise is built around a 2nd round pick.
People always point out those few examples of players that turned out good but the vast majority of 2nd rounders either dont make teams or dont stay around very long. I think you may be overvaluing 2nd rounders a bit.
No, I’m not. I’m saying that a 2nd rounder is pretty much a flyer, so don’t waste it on need, use it on the best player available on your board.
The bottom line is, a draft pick is the easiest “get”. It’s a player that’s young and cheap, and could turn into a major contributor. Teams that build on free agency all the time are always up against the cap, and are continuously having to reload when their players get old. The draft is there for a reason, 1st AND 2nd round.
I might venture to say - 2nd Round picks have been bigger surprises than their firsts.
Gilbert Arenas
Andray Blatche
Dominic McGuire
Nick Young
Olesiky Pecherov
JaVale McGee
Jarvis Hayes
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
even
better way to put it.
The bottom line is the best, easiest, and cheapest way to build a team is through the draft, using free agency and trades to augment your roster. Washington has 3 pro teams (please don’t talk to me about the Nationals.) Which one is the most competitive? The Caps. And which one has built through the draft? Exactly.
i agree but in fairness, they also had the fortunate position to draft one of the top three players in the league when they had their top 3 pick. we drafted kwame #1. but was there a lot of talent that year? was gasol the best. he is not a franchise player. the lottery does not do a good job of getting the best prospects on the worse teams. and of course, teams screw it up by drafting potential going for the home run and striking out.
by les boulez bomber on Jul 14, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
of
course the draft is about luck as much as anything. Why I always say the Magic are one of the luckiest teams ever. They’ve had the number one pick twice and drafted arguably 2 of the 4 or 5 best big big men in the last 20 years. Were the Wiz unlucky as hell to end up with the #1 pick in 2001, in one of the weakest drafts ever (and they think THIS years draft was weak)? Sure, especially considering the #1’s after them were Yao, Lebron, and Howard. Just like they were unlucky this year to end up #5. But regardless of all that, you STILL have to use the draft as the main tool to build a successful FRANCHISE. You can build a good TEAM through FA and trades, but it doesn’t last.
Look, we’re probably going too far with this Dejuan Blair thing, and I’m probably the main culprit. But I’m looking more at the longevity of it. Blair had the POTENTIAL to be a solid player for us for years, a good core member of the team. Oberto won’t be, nor will whatever other bum we may bring in here.
oh, that is good news. i like the pickup barring major heart concerns.
by les boulez bomber on Jul 14, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
i like the pickup barring major heart concerns.
yes me too. of course if there’s any team that would be skeptical of a player recovering from heart ailments I would think it would be the Wizards. So maybe their interest means there’s not much reason for concern. That’s what the optimist in me says at least!
by Johnnie Futbol on Jul 14, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
i agree and it is already factored into his salary…at least for us!
by les boulez bomber on Jul 14, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
To clarify
Oberto was waived, and not picked up off waivers. Detroit owes him the portion of his contract which is guaranteed ($1.9MM), and he is a free agent. There is no mention of what we would sign him for, but what DET pays him is irrelevant to us.
Are we really going to keep
second guessing Grunfield on not drafting Blair. Maybe this is why the the Blair thing just wont die.
Except Blair is the antethisis of TUP
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Fabricio's Heart
Does anyone know the details about his Ablation surgery? Specifically, did doctors have to break his sternum like they had to with Etan Thomas? Etan was nowhere close to the same player as he was before his heart surgery. I’m hoping that is not the case with Oberto.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
not sure
there are traditional open heart versions of this procedure and non-invasive versions. Fromt eh sound of his rehab I’m guessing he had a non-invasive version.
well, he had the same role in SA as he would here. And they punted him and drafted an unproven sophmore out of college with no ACL. And they have won 4 championships rather recently. Still, it is a one-year deal. Not the end of the world if it does not work out. He might not get enough minutes to get his heart rate up.
by les boulez bomber on Jul 14, 2009 10:17 AM EDT reply actions
um, punted?
They included his salary to get Richard Jefferson, and you are forgetting about some guy they signed named McDyess. Whispers out of San Antonio is that he will be ahead of Blair on the depth chart.
McDyess and RJ are more valuable than a lot of players
a lot of good players. It doesnt devalue Oberto to say that the Spurs chose RJ and McDyess over him, I would take McDyess over Blatche or McGuire in a straight swap.
by morethesamewiz on Jul 14, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
mcdyess came later. but your point is not lost. they are a better team with jefferson starting over oberto, especially if they planned to add a mcdyess level player later.
by les boulez bomber on Jul 14, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I am glad he is not a head case nor locker room distraction (I believe). Those are really important. He should set a good example to the kids and push hopefully push them for playing time.
by les boulez bomber on Jul 14, 2009 10:18 AM EDT reply actions
Not a big fan
I wish we waited this out longer and signed someone better. Oberto’s done. Terrible rebounder, turns the ball over on about 1/4 of his possessions, can’t move anymore.
Shelden Williams would have been much better. The market’s drying up now, why not wait until August? I thought that was the whole plan?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I agree
There were better options.
except
I thought that was the whole plan?
I’m not sure WHAT the actual “plan” is.
Well
Now that Oberto’s agent is saying that nothing is imminent, it all makes more sense.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I
i think they offered a few guys the LLE, including Rasho. Rasho was the first to turn it down and thus exit the “potential signings” group. Oberto is in no hurry either.
Nor should we be
Oberto is in no hurry either.
If we’re gonna be scraping the bottom of the barrel, we may as well hold out as long as possible. There will probably be other names on the list as more people get signed/traded.
Plus, the longer it goes, the more we can speculate. One less thing to talk about if we sign someone now. I’m sure the speculation is more fun than talking about what impact (insert bottom of the barrel player X name here) will have on the team.
I Found This Section from Mike Lee's Post Interesting
He had been bothered by arrhythmia (atrial fibrillation) the past few seasons and recently underwent a heart procedure that was aimed at correcting his irregular heartbeat. He would occasionally miss games after receiving eletro-shock procedure to get his heart back in time. After the procedure, he told the San Antonio Express-News that there shouldn’t be any problems with his comeback. A few weeks later, he wound up being traded to Detroit.
Could all of this talk of Oberto being “done” be just the premature evaluation of a player fighting through a heart condition? After all, even counting his poor performance this past season, his career rebounding percentage is 15.2% That matches Brendan Haywood’s best overall season from 2007-08 (though not his best rebounding season). Is it too optimistic to think that last season was an aberration caused by his heart, and that he can return to form?
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
why is there so much discrepency whether a guy can play defense and rebound? you are right, if he cant do that, there is no point in signing him and we should wait.
by les boulez bomber on Jul 14, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm
ben wallace just got bought out. he’s 100% done, right? anything left?
"a crab dribble is when you travel" - caron butler
by little stevie colter on Jul 14, 2009 1:48 PM EDT reply actions
knees
his legs are shot, at least they were last season. thats why he took the buyout, he is 99% retired. Cavs fan would say he retired last year. In that situation I don’t see a guy give away 4M to come play for 1.9 here.
too bad too
giving him up was one of our biggest gaffes ever.
You’ve gotta respect a guy that works his tail off to get to the top of the game, passing over hundreds of players much more talented.
Ben Wallace would never play for Flip Saunders
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
right -
forgot about that history.
"a crab dribble is when you travel" - caron butler
by little stevie colter on Jul 14, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know
why we won’t at least work out Sean May. The Cavs are working him out, if they haven’t already. If his weight problems are under control, as has been reported, he could be a steal. There is tons of potential there in areas of extreme need for us.
I agree he's worth a look
Not my ideal pick, but he should be cheap.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jul 14, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
yes
but the quantities we know of pretty much amount to zero at the end of the day.
And “WHY BOTHER?”
- how about because you want to do everything you can to improve your team, overturn every stone. I don’t see a simple workout of a potential frontcourt player being any particular bother.
I was a big Sean May believer when he came into the league
But there’s no value there now.
In the best case he’s likely no better than the a vet minimum, and there’s far too much uncertainty. In other words there are definitely better options.
With his injury history
Signing May would give the Wizards crack medical staff a good patient to “practice” on.
not weight
He’s had foot and knee problems since he was at UNC. Fans knew back then that he’d never be a 82 game player. Now we know he can’t be a 40 game player. He should go play in Europe for good money and fewer games on teh schedule.
Sorry random
But I can’t figure out- does anyone know where and when the summer league game is on TV tonight? I’m not paying to let it poorly stream on my computer.
...one of those guys who reads all the time but barely comments
by Juice over Whine on Jul 14, 2009 5:22 PM EDT reply actions
from an earlier post
you can catch the cav wiz game at 630 at http://www.atdhe.net/ tonight
by les boulez bomber on Jul 14, 2009 6:17 PM EDT reply actions
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