Detroit blows its cap space on Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva
Agree 100% with KD here ... that's the best Detroit could do? Really?
So you basically just traded Chauncey Billups, Rasheed Wallace and Flip Saunders for Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva and (most likely) Doug Collins. That's progress?
On the bright side, I don't think we have to worry about the Pistons too much as a competitor with the Wizards next year.
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Mike Prada
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6’0 volume shooting 2 guards who don’t defend, rebound, or create for anyone else don’t deserve 11 million a year. I personally have a bad feeling about Charlie V (knuckleheads who get it together in contract years usually regress), but 7 million a year isn’t really that bad for a starting-caliber big man.
I think both are pretty fair values for the player
The problem is getting both of them together, not one of them.
(Although Charlie V’s probably a bit overpaid for 8 million per)
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
They're going to be pretty thin on the front line
Kwame Brown, Fabricio Oberto, Walter Herrmann and Jason Maxiell – that’s it… That’s thinner than the Wizards’ front line… and a lot less talented.
They’re going to have to put on a full-court-press to try to resign Antonio McDyess and perhaps sign a decent Center with their MLE, to become competitive.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Should have added
Even with Charlie Villanueva, Detroit will be thin on the front line….
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Honestly, I don't even really understand what they're doing right now
Even if they lucked out and managed to steal away Tyson Chandler, they’re in no way going to be elite right now. I wish (for their sake, not ours, since a weaker East makes life easier for the Wizards) that they’d just bite the bullet and rebuild around young guys and draft picks. Like, even if everyone they signed plays up to their potential and Stuckey develops into a 20-6-6 player, they still don’t seem like a team that could make it out of the second round. Needless to say, I’m against them re-signing McDyess, since I think they’d be better off giving those minutes to Amir Johnson, Maxiell, and whoever else they have who’s under 35.
by pantslessyoda1 on Jul 1, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
They've got time to add depth.
But I agree they don’t have much going on at center. I imagine they’ll play CV at center a bit and try to exploit matchups.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jul 1, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Will Detroit also be a Zaza destination?
Gordon and Villanueva are good players but… I do agree with those who think Detroit is simply avoiding the need to bite an eventual bullet (!) here… What they are doing reminds me a bit of the slow death spiral years of the Bullets after they won the championship… Bring in Moses. Bring in Rex. Bring in Bernard… Make the playoffs, exit early and try to convince your fans and yourselves that the team is still relevant…. Oh, oh…
I think it's the opposite
Charlie is a good deal I think. His per-36 numbers last year compare favorably with our own Antawn Jamison.
In fact, if I could swap them straight up right now I might…
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jul 1, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Quick reminder
Gilbert Arenas still has several years left on his colossal deal. This year it’s a pittance at $16 million or so, but by 2013/14 Agent Zero will be taking another 6 million onto that for a clean $22 million paycheck.
If Arenas becomes a real point guard under Flip, he might be worth that kind of coin. Otherwise he’s an upgrade on Ben Gordon — but is he that much of an upgrade? He’ll be earning twice as much.
Arenas>>>>>Gordon
A healthy Arenas is way better than Ben Gordon. Don’t let the “he shoots too much” crowd or “he’s not a true point guard crowd” to influence you too much. It’s bogus.
Anyway, it’s not a true marketplace in the NBA, so individual salary comparisons are pretty unfair. It’s not like you can trade Arenas and then sign Gordon.
Also, Gordon for 11 million isn’t overpaying. Gordon on the Pistons for 11 million is overpaying, because they already have Stuckey and Rip. If they somehow trade Rip for expirings, then it’s good value.
Gordon on the Bulls for 11 million, for example, is pretty reasonable to me.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
BG overpaid, CV about right
I think $7-8m for Charlie isn’t that bad, but $11m for BG when you already have Rip is completely ridiculous.
You have to think that Dumars has a trade w/ Rip involved already worked out if he can pull the trigger on this.
$7-8m for a starting caliber PF isn’t too bad though, but I bet their fans wish they’d used the rest of their money for something else.
If it were another team, I'd say the reverse
I think BG’s worth 11 million, just not to Detroit.
I also struggle to see what’s so great about VIllanueva. What’s the difference between him and Blatche, other than three-point range?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Good point
I think he has put it together a bit more than Blatche, but not $5m/yr better. They are overpaying for him, but $7m/yr doesn’t seem too bad.
Maybe my contract expectations are inflated after years of bad contracts being handed out to stiffs.
by Manimal Smith on Jul 1, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Andray is a better defender .... can block shots.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.
Difficult - to compare contracts between Blatche and Charlie V.
Andray was a STEAL at $3 Mil per year….
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Yep
That 3 million per year deal is a large part of why Blatche’s problems don’t really upset me all that much.
by pantslessyoda1 on Jul 1, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree completely
(Blatche + 3pt shot) x playing time = Villanueva. I’m looking forward to hearing more reactions to this from Bucks fans, too, since Charlie V’s always seemed like a somewhat polarizing player.
I agree about Detroit not really needing Ben Gordon. Even without AI, they had some pretty productive perimeter players, and I think that their main problem was the complete inability of their frontcourt to produce. I still think Gordon’s somewhat overpaid, but he’d be a much better fit on a team like Houston where the halfcourt offense can really stagnate at times.
by pantslessyoda1 on Jul 1, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought Detriot was going to hold this cap space for next season
What is Dumars thinking?? Oh well, good for the Wizards.
Now, if Cleveland can just load up on even more horrible contracts, and Boston can sign Sheed and resign Marbury. And Turkoglu can go to Portland, and Vince Carter can be Vince Carter ….
I think one of the things that will keep us all from jumping out of a tree
Orlando is losing Gortat and Turkolu
Bibby is leaving Atlanta to be replaced by Jamal Crawford – a lateral move (and they are shopping Josh Smith)
Boston will be another year older
Cleveland keeps adding broken down oldsters
Detroit just blew all its money on two average players
If EG actually does something besides putting us all on suicide watch, I like our chances to make a move.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
Orlando is losing Gortat and Turkolu – but they added Vince Carter probably a wash.
Bibby is leaving Atlanta to be replaced by Jamal Crawford – a lateral move (and they are shopping Josh Smith)
Boston will be another year older – but they’re courting Rasheed Wallace (he would be a very good fit at Boston)
Cleveland keeps adding broken down oldsters – Like probably the best Center in the last 30 years. They’re also going after Wallace and Ron Artest…
Detroit just blew all its money on two average players
I like the fact that it appears that Turkoglu will go to Portland (in the WEST) , and that if they sign someone else, the Cavaliers actually might lose Anderson Varejao…. but I don’t think the Wizards have done enough this off-season (SO FAR) to catch Cleveland, Boston or Orlando.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I had higher hopes
than a 4th seed, and a bow out in the second round to Cleveland for the 4th time in 5 years…
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Rasheed is pretty old
and is still good, but does that leave them enough room to resign Big Baby and Leon Powe?
Yes, I know Shaq was the best center in the last thirty years. But he is on a rapid rapid downward slope. The Wizards also had Michael Jordan, the best player EVER, how did that turn out?
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
Shaq's actually not that much of an upgrade at this point
He’s obviously far better than Big Z, but he’s still going to be 37 in April next year. I think he’ll be at least partially offset by the lack of the now somewhat underrated Ben Wallace and the decline of Illgauskus.
by pantslessyoda1 on Jul 2, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Excellent point
I keep on telling people this, but no one seems to take it seriously. And don’t forget about Philly possibly losing Andre Miller, either to free agency or to age. NO ONE in the East other than Washington is likely to be that much better, with the possible exception of Charlotte, although I might just be putting too much faith in Larry Brown.
by pantslessyoda1 on Jul 2, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The Clippers are trading Zach Randolph to the Grizzlies
Zach Randolph ($16 Million) for Quentin Richardson ($9.3 Million)
This trade only works because Memphis is under the Salary Cap…
(Richardson was traded to Memphis on Draft night for Darko Milicic)
This is a strange one… It appears that Memphis is taking on Zach Randolph’s 2-years ($33 Million) contract and giving up Richardson’s expiring $9.3 Million contract…
I get why the Clips do this deal. It frees up the PF spot for Blake Griffin. The Clippers just saved themselves $6.7 Million THIS year, and over $17 Million next… This also puts the Clippers under the Salary Cap – so they should be able to sign a couple of Mid-Level type Free Agents (one with their cap space, and one with the MLE)
Why would Memphis want Zach Randolph? There are better options out there in Free Agency for their Power Forward need. They won’t make a $40-$50 Million offer to David Lee but they’re willing to give up their cap room and take on Randolph’s $33 Million, and all his baggage? How does that make sense?
Is this Gasol for Kwame 2009?
How can the Wizards cash in on the stupidity of the Grizzlies?
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I like Hakim... but...
he is in the Blatche, Charley V genre of power forwards… We already have Andray and at a much better price…
No Link for Hakim - just my dream
for Chris Wallace being an idiot
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4301324
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
Sorry
Here’s the link for the Zach Randolph Trade
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4301324
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I really don't get this move at all
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jul 1, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes you do -- Chris Wallace was involved
The Griz did need a veteran power forward to add to the other very young starters. But if you drew up a list of veteran power forwards NOT to add, wouldn’t Randolph be at or near the top of the list?
Why not throw a bus full of money at the king of chasing buses full of money — Carlos Boozer? Or sign, as others have said, David Lee?
Money is probably the answer. They get Randolph for a net of $24 million and are only committed to two years. But why not go after Varejao? He likely wants to get paid and to start. A three year deal at $10 million would get him. You’d be overpaying, but compared to Randolph’s deal, it would be a steal. And Varejao’s Brazilian; only the Spanish players hate Memphis.
Yeah money makes some sense
They needed SOMEONE at the PF, and they only committed for 2 years. It’s just a middling move that doesn’t make the team better longterm; I would absolutely hate Wallace if I was a fan of this team. Maybe Wallace got the sense that Lee/Boozer et. al would never sign with them?
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jul 2, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya, I am baffled
They are way under the cap and they can sign Paul Millsap, and/or David Lee for 2/3rd of what Randolph is making. Why do this?
This is bad news for my dream of the Wiz landing Marcus Camby ….
Maybe we can trade Deshawn Stevenson for Marc Gasol
by Manimal Smith on Jul 2, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Stevenson for Marc Gasol
Makes as much sense as the Richardson for Zach Randolph trade….
Why not… Go for it.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
You heard it here first
Stevenson for Marc Gasol and the Griz’s unprotected 2010 first rounder ….
Why can’t I ever see this when I fire up the worldwideleader.com …
by Manimal Smith on Jul 2, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Right now Pau and Z-Bo each have two years and around $33 million left
Remind me again: Why did the Grizzlies deal away Pau Gasol? They just picked up Zach Randolph at almost exactly the same contract.
Because, umm ... they wanted Javais so they could get their pick back from us!
Protected 2012 first rounder that already belonged to them + zach randolph for 2 years before it = Chris Wallace championship.
I am seriously dumbfounded by that move – either save money or spend money don’t add an extra $24m in salary for a dead weight guy.
by Manimal Smith on Jul 2, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Hadn't thought of it that way, but that's genius
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Disapointing
I am a fan of what Joe Dumars did with his team earlier in this decade. I paid close attention because he did it with a cadre of Tar Heels in key positions.
These moves show a complete lack of perspective for his team on and off the court. This, after recently saying that they intended to change the culture of the team because too many guys partied too hard the night before games. JoeD is human after all, taking huge chunks of money and throwing them at pieces regardless of fit. He did it before when he overreacted and signed Nazr Mohammed to the full MLE. He’s just another GM now. Goes to show that a surplus of money will go to anyone’s head.
Gordon and Villanueva party before games?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
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