No Your Links: Tony Kornheiser/Gilbert Arenas Fallout
by JakeTheSnake on Jun 4, 2009 3:29 PM EDT
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54 comments
Surely by now you've probably heard Tony Kornheiser's comments on Gilbert Arenas, but just in case you missed it. Here's what he had to say to Dan Levy on the On The DL Podcast yesterday regarding Agent Zero:
"Gilbert Arenas is the worst person on Earth. He's a coach killer and a team killer. He's a team killer, Gilbert Arenas. That's why - he got Eddie Jordan fired. He didn't play."
Personally, I think the whole thing was a bit overblown. Everyone knows that Tony has a tendency to go overboard to make a point and pretty much anytime that anyone is labeled the worst person on Earth you can classify that as going overboard. I think that combined with a really slow news day helped to turn the whole event into a bigger deal than it should've been, which is why I tried to avoid the subject yesterday.
But in the wake of all the drama yesterday, there were some really thought provoking pieces from several prominent D.C. bloggers. After the jump, you can check out some of what they had to say about Tony's comments.
Kornheiser Crushes Gilbert Arenas - D.C. Sports Bog
I'll grant that the "worst person on earth" bit was a dash of Kornheiseristic hyperbole. But the coach killer and the team killer? Before his knee broke, Gilbert won the Wiz their first playoff series in two decades. He also filled the stands, sold jerseys, hit last-second shots, became the most popular athlete in this city and made people care about that sorry basketball franchise. That's a strange list of accomplishments for a team killer.
Broken knee aside, Gilbert didn't really force the Wizards to start this season 1-10. He didn't break a baseball bat over Brendan Haywood's wrist or throw an iron into DeShawn Stevenson's back. He had nothing to do with the fact that the Wiz's winning percentage actually increased after Eddie Jordan got fired.
Hoops Addict - Pardon The Exaggeration
What about when a healthy Arenas led the Wizards franchise to three straight playoff appearances after they went 23 years without winning a playoff series? It seems impossible to be that successful and a team killer all at the same time.
Truth About It - Tony Kornheiser Is Just A Hater
Look, I’ve railed on Gilbert Arenas plenty … most due to his comments about voting, and subsequent silliness. But I still believe in the guy (at least for the time being).
That said, not sure how many people can validly claim that Arenas is a coach/team killer … communication issues, the need to change his game, and cheap talk notwithstanding.
Tony Kornheiser Thinks Gilbert Arenas is a "Team Killer" - Stet Sports Blog
Say he can’t be serious, say he plays too much. But don’t call him a team killer. Especially when the Wizards aren’t much of a team without him playing.
I get that Kornheiser has to continually live up to a personal brand he’s worked hard to market, so I won’t knock him the brashness of his comment. He gets paid to do it, and he does it well.
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What a colossal douche
Takes a lot of balls to kick a man when he hasn’t played in two years. Plus, and I know I’m preaching to the choir here, Eddie Jordan became coach when Gilbert arrived and he was fired as the, what, second longest tenured coach in the league? If anything, Gil helped to solidify Eddie Jordan as a legitimate and experienced NBA head coach.
by pantslessyoda1 on Jun 4, 2009 3:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kornheiser is at his best
When he has other people around him who are happy to call him out on his B.S. His radio show, in some its older forms, was great because of that. But he really is like Barkley as an actual analyst – lazy, just going for the ‘opinionated’ label. This pisses me off, and I like TK usually.
Store all this crap away, Mr. Arenas, let it simmer, be healthy and you will have plenty of the same kind of fuel that motivated you early on in your career, plus this wisdom (hopefully) that comes with a little life experience and hardship.
"a crab dribble is when you travel" - caron butler
by little stevie colter on Jun 4, 2009 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What a tool
The wonderful irony is that the more of this kind of junk that Korn throws around, it only ends up tarnishing himself.
by MR on Jun 4, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't know what it is in the mind of Tony
And I’ve been an unabashed fan of his for a lot of years. For some reason I think Kornheiser feels the need to build Eddie Jordan up by putting down Gilbert Arenas. I think he is only going off the times that Arenas supposedly criticized Jordan and forgets that Gilbert was probably EJ’s biggest supporter. And yes there is a dollop of Kornheiser hyperbole. I hope he backtracks, explains or apologizes on this one.
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Jun 4, 2009 4:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He's said this before (or something similar)
on Talking Points awhile back, about how Arenas got his coach fired and how you can’t win with him. I can’t remember if Wilbon was around to debate him or not, but him saying it now/yesterday isn’t really new.
Now writing for Ridiculous Upside, now with more draft coverage.
by Jon L on Jun 4, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
just show him up this season Gil
From Richmond to the District
by pas493 on Jun 4, 2009 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep
More fuel for Gilbert’s comeback. Keep the haters hatin’.
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Jun 4, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A guy was out for 2 straight years. During that time, the coach got fired and the team went from near the top of the conference to the 2nd worst record in the league. Gilbert not being able to play is directly responsible for all this. Whether it is through his own actions or not, you would have a difficult time proving he isn’t both things that Tony claimed.
by Mixmy1200s on Jun 4, 2009 4:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand your logic
Because the guy got injured then he’s a coach killer and team killer?
So every player in every sport is a coach/team killer when they retire, get injured, get traded…
by MR on Jun 4, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tony was NOT simply claiming that Arenas is a great player who got hurt
and thus Jordan was fired and the Wizards suck. He was claiming, well, that “Arenas is the worst person on earth.” He was attacking the character and person, not just the fact that he hasn’t been able to play. Two totally different arguments.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jun 4, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
athletes get injured
it’s part of the business.
If the Wizards lost because players like Arenas or Haywood got injured, or because a 22 year-old 2nd round draft pick isn’t an all-star yet, then why blame/fire/scapegoat the coach? That’s Grunfeld’s responsibility and he should deserve any criticism from those who think Jordan should still be with the Wizards.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jun 4, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Guys!
Kevin Garnett is a team killer because he was’nt able to play during the playoffs and his team went from winning a championship to losing in the second round.
Mixmy1200s, you might as well just come out and say that while your at it.
by lj15 on Jun 4, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I must have missed the part where KG was a drama queen who pushed Doc Rivers out. Or the part where he didn’t win both MVP and the NBA Championship.
by Mixmy1200s on Jun 5, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I commented about this in another post but I really can’t believe anyone would place blame on a coach’s firing on a player. Wilbon said the same thing about Blatche immediately after the Jordan firing.
This was Grunfeld’s doing which should be obvious, but apparently it’s easier to blame a player than the respectable guy in the suit.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jun 4, 2009 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Part of me would like to see this comment
prompt a brief un-retirement from blogging by Gil. The other part just wants Gil to get back to the ol’ chip-on-my-shoulder gonna-show-these-haters-up personality that became one of the best players in the league. In which case, keep on talking Mr. Tony K, keep on talking.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jun 4, 2009 6:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
re: journalism
He gets paid to do it, and he does it well.
That comment explains what’ wrong with a majority of journalists today. As long as people get paid to pull nonesense from their rectum, they shall do so.
by Pryme on Jun 4, 2009 6:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I know, right
Tony sounded like some skeevy blogger.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.
by Truth About It on Jun 5, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
smh
what a douche bag, his opinion doesnt count
by stanis on Jun 4, 2009 7:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know why you guys can't see what the media clearly sees
Eddie Jordan is perfection. He walks on water, he urinates wine. He invented defense, but was stuck with the worst defenders in the history of the game. He made a shooting guard out of Jared Jeffries and a power forward out of Jarvis Hayes. This man — no, this God — knows no limits to his genius. This should have been his 5th straight year coaching in the Finals, if it weren’t for *#%^&% Gilbert Arenas.
by disgrunted on Jun 4, 2009 9:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Awesomeness. I love the double standard the media uses. In one breath, they remark how amazing it was that Eddie Jordan single-handedly guided this team to the playoffs for 4 straight seasons despite all of the injuries he had to deal with. In the next, they emphatically claim that the Wizards’ Big 3 has proven that they can’t get out of the first round even when healthy.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jun 4, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TK just seems bitter because of the MNF thing
Does he ever say anything nice about the Wizards?
By the way, as I was writing this, the Wizards’ “Determined to Deliver” commercial with Antawn Jamison delivering his heartfelt apology to WIz fans just came on. Maybe that’s a bad sign.
by Matt K. on Jun 4, 2009 9:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i think the wiz won out...this may sound pessimistic but...
ok so we had a bad season, but barring any problems with gil and im assuming he gets back to his old self i think the wiz won out. I love EJ but he wasn’t going to take this team to the finals. So we lost one year (a pretty crappy year it may be) but we also got Flip, who is an upgrade and we have the# 5 pick that we have several options with bringing in more talent. Gil improved this team, even with his injury ( again assuming he returns to his old self, and negating that rediculously high salary we’re giving him)
by theintz on Jun 4, 2009 11:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Guys, take a deep breath
Kornheiser has been following this team longer than almost all of us. He coined “the incandescent Rex Chapman” and “Les Boulez.” He and Wilbon have attended more crappy Bullets/Wizards games than they would like to remember. And both have attempted to be fair to the team – even when they were being run by the nepotistic regime of Unseld/O’Malley.
Chances are that he is stirring the pot.
I think now that Tony has fully entered the “outrageous claims” portion of his career and all commentary should be taken with more than a grain of salt.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Jun 5, 2009 2:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think now that Tony has fully entered the "outrageous claims" portion of his career and all commentary should be taken with more than a grain of salt.
I think pretty much everybody here is taking this with a gigantic mound of salt. Korn is a tool and he has been for a long time. He has also been in the “outrageous claims” portion of his career for a long time, in fact all of it from what I can recall and I go back to the 80’s reading the WaPo sports section.
What bothers me is that I think he is (whether consciously or not) dumping on the home team to try to get some national cred. In fact, he is dumping on a home team hero and national figure just to get himself some attention. That’s bad enough, but to do it in such a harsh and personal way I think is inexcusable. “Worst person on earth”? That’s not over the top, flashy, outrageous, or attention grabbing. That is slimy. It’s over the line. And it’s sad and pathetic.
by MR on Jun 5, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He works for ESPN -- what do you expect?
Slimy, over the line, sad and pathetic is on page 215 of the corporate manual.
by disgrunted on Jun 5, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a lot earlier in the manual than page 215
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jun 6, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't "dumping" is accurate
One of the things that seperates Washington Sports writers is the ability to be critical and NOT be homers. Do I wish that Wilbon wrote more Wiz articles? Yes. But I rather have someone who can fairly criticize the team, rather than an individual who constantly paints the team as better than it truly is….
This reminds me of when the O’s ran off Jon Miller – who was “overly” critical of the team. It was a travesty then, and its a travesty now.
I think that using words like “tool” and “douche” to describe Kornheiser are subjective, to say the least, and help lower the tenor on this board. As I stated above, Kornheiser has been following this team for a lot longer than we have, has written 10x more than any of us, and deserves at least a little acknowledgement of the time he has spent covering the team.
Were his comments ridiculous? Yes. Does he deserve to be name called and tar and feathered? No, absolutely not.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Jun 5, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Name callers
I think that using words like "tool" and "douche" to describe Kornheiser are subjective, to say the least, and help lower the tenor on this board.
I think the commenters who used those terms have simply entered the "outrageous claims" portion of their careers and their commentary should be taken with more than a grain of salt..
by hotplate on Jun 5, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Touche
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 5, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you sir
get a super +1
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Jun 5, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Career? What career?
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.
by Truth About It on Jun 6, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I agree with this
Tony’s been in the business a long time and has earned the ability to essentially not go to games and still profess his opinions. At the end of the day, all this really is about is some guy who isn’t really a Wizards insider professing his opinion on the team. It isn’t all that different from what we all do. The only difference is Tony K. doesn’t really share our opinion.
He can say whatever he wants to say. Doesn’t mean it’s right to call him names for it. Was it a pretty random and baseless thing to say? Of course. But he’s under no obligation to “support” the team. He’s a columnist that calls it as he sees it. We can make his comments irrelevant without calling him names.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 5, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think “coach killer” and “team killer” isn’t all that different from what we all do and is pretty random. “Worst person on earth” crosses a line in my opinion. In addition, this man says these things on a larger stage and therefore I believe has a greater responsibiity.
There is a difference between “opinion” and “slander”. A journalist should be more careful.
I’m sure he was joking, but then again so was Don Imus.
by MR on Jun 5, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
My only response is that TK hasn’t really been a “journalist” for quite some time. But since he still has that connection, it’s not unfair to say he still is.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 5, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand
How is he not a journalist? Because he’s on TV? I guess maybe not “journalist” like Woodward and Bernstein. But still certainly a member of the sports media. And I think all of the same rules apply.
by MR on Jun 5, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think waht Prada originally said
is that since the comments were made on the radio and part of an “opinion” show, that he can’t be seen as wearing his journalist hat. Its to judging OP-ED to an A1 news story.
But I get your point.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Jun 5, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's no longer with the Post, because he accepted a buyout
And he’s not on MNF anymore. Plus, I guess I see journalists as being primary sources, and TK doesn’t really go to games anymore.
But that’s just me. You could easily argue otherwise.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 5, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I respectfully disagree
1) Calling Gil “worst person on earth” “team killer” “coach killer” = dumping on him. Not sure how you can refute that. Maybe we have different definitions of the word ‘dumping’.
2) I love that the WaPo sports section has stayed away from ‘homer’ phenomenon. I always thought Kornheiser was overly critical just to be contrary and garner attention. He has now become a caricature of himself. Maybe that’s not fair, because he has ALWAYS been someone whose main goal seems to be garnering attention. I mean how many stupid ‘bandwagon’ articles has the guy written about the Redskins? Can’t he write about a team, sport, or player without making the focus of the article about himself?
3) I don’t think “tool” lowers the tenor on this board. It’s not the Harvard review. Sorry if you were offended. It’s just that the word describes him so perfectly. I use it in the vernacular and not as a description of a body part. It is a word that is allowed on network television I believe. I have never called anyone a “douche”.
4) I don’t think he has been following the team longer than I have, although certainly closer.
5) The man slung some pretty bad mud. Tar and feather? As far as verbal-wise I haven’t seen anything here that has crossed a line, which I believe Kornheiser did.
by MR on Jun 5, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair to #2
While you’re right that TK wants attention (as most columnists do), we’re also bringing it attention by getting all up in arms about it. I think that was more ledell’s point. It’s also worth noting that this came in response to a question on someone’s radio show, so it wasn’t like he planned it necessarily.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 5, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you have several great points
But the best way to prove Kornheiser wrong is not use the same slash and burn tactics that he himself has decided to employ. Its to point out his hypocrisy (which you and several other posters have done) in a measured manner and let it drop.
And no, I’m not offended by “tool” – I constantly get into arguments with Rook and Prada over Haywood and other issues. But I think that if one of our writer/moderators called us a “tool” on the board – they would be going over the line. Which is why I come here rather than other boards – the discussion always stays civilized.
To close a round about and erratic post – I personally don’t like it when when we stop critiquing people rationally, and start substituting name calling as a means of criticism. Kornheiser made some foolish assertions that could easily be disproved.
Can we go back to arguing about Flip now?
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Jun 5, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to get too semantic, but I use the word “tool” to replace “moron”. I guess other people might use it differently. I really didn’t consider that and I will be more careful in the future with the use of that word. I think he’s a moron. I’m sorry that my use of the word “tool” distracted from the larger point.
by MR on Jun 5, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, its really ok
I didn’t mean for this to get all “Harvard Review” up in here. I guess my larger point is that there are a million places on the web where I could call Kornheiser a douche, but I come here to argue about PER and adjusted defensive settings. I think that is what separates this site from other sports sites, is that we all usually rise above the normal dick jokes and talk like reasonable people.
With the exception of Kwame Brown.
If you look at Deadspin (a site I enjoy) right now, they are having an existential crisis in attempting to decide what defines humor and name calling. And the problem is, once you let the cat out of the bag – it doesn’t go back in willingly.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Jun 5, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a longstanding dislike for Kornheiser. Going back over 20 years.
by MR on Jun 5, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No reason why we can't do both at times.
But yes, analysis should have a much greater stake in the site.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.
by Truth About It on Jun 6, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly
will never forget his epic contributions to the Style section – which are best left buried in time.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Jun 5, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you're saying
that nothing Kornheiser says anymore is credible. I can buy that.
The “worst person in the world” line is over the top, difficult to ignore, but part of his schtick. So fine, lets ignore that part.
But worse is that his entire premise has no evidence to back it up. “Coach killer”, “team killer”, bad guy, how so? Give us a little specific information on why you’re saying this.
And simultaneously praising Eddie Jordan to the sky? Seems like Eddie’s successes should also be viewed as Gilbert’s successes. Eddie brought the team to the playoffs several years in a row? Well so did the team killer. Their respective successes are joined at the hip. Can’t have it both ways.
If he’s going to rip someone for Jordan’s firing, how about ripping the guy who ACTUALLY FIRED Eddie Jordan? My guess is that its a whole lot easier ripping young guys in their 20s rather than older guys that you may run into at your next cocktail party.
by hotplate on Jun 5, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Devil's advocate
If Gil’s glass knee buckles again, I will have to agree with TK. We should have never resigned this guy to such an astronomical contract. What, is Abe taking pointers from Dan Snyder now?!
"Sure it’d be great to be playing with 10 good fingers, but 8 will do just fine." – Jon Jansen
by VA_Skin on Jun 6, 2009 1:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is Such a Win-Win for Kornheiser
If Gilbert gets injured again, like you said, or does not play as well as he used to, then TK looks courageous for being the first guy to call him out. If Gil puts this chip on his shoulder and leads the Wizards back to the playoffs (and hopefully to a championship), then TK can take credit as the guy who motivated him. Either way, it is an excellent way to garner publicity for a guy who just got kicked out of the limelight by ESPN.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jun 6, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may have something here...
TK really cannot lose…. He iwins if Gil breaks down. He wins if Gil draws inspiration from this really strong criticism. And he is winning right now by using this diatribe against Gil as a tool, so to speak, to get his personal Mojo back after the MNF debacle
Back in the old days we said never argue with someone who buys his ink by the barrel. I guess today you should never argue with anyone who buys bits by the Gigabyte,
A bored and restless populace awaits breathlessly for Gil to return to the blogosphere….
by khrabb on Jun 7, 2009 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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