International Players Take Longer to Develop than Any Other Draft Pick
by Blatche4MVP on Jun 28, 2009 8:35 AM EDT
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According to this ESPN article by Eric Neel, International players are the slowest group of players to develop (other groups are High School, Freshman in College, Sophomores, Juniors and Seniors). The complete opposite or what the Wiz need, which are players who are ready to contribute right now.
The reason for the post is that I believe way too much value is being given to Ricky Rubio. The Kid is 18, and the average international player takes 5 years to develop. That is the end of the Gil contract and most likely this current team. This also assumes that he will develop into a good player, when there is just a likely chance he will be out of the league in 5 years as him being the next Pete Maravich. The biggest knock on Rubio is that he is not athletic, don’t you think it is possible that Rubio dominates Spain the same way that Reddick and Hansbrough dominate College hoops, only when they make the next step to a significantly more competitive and athletic league that they are marginal players. To me this is by far the most likely outcome for Rubio. Now, I have not seen him play (outside of youtube clips) and many scouts seem to disagree and believe that Rubio will be a franchise PG. While very possible it is still more likely that Rubio will be a bust than a first team nba player. And even if he does develop, it will not be helping this team win.
Instead we got two players who will help us win now, who address some of our major needs (3 point shooting), and provides extra financially flexibility to sign Haywood next offseason. Miller and Foye are known NBA assets, and right away become our 5th and 6th best players. Miller was a great player on a 49 win team, Foye has improved each season, and now can be a role player instead of leading back court player.
Overall, I like this trade a lot. I think it makes the wizards better now and in the future.
Now I just start saying my prayers everynight that the Rubio doenst become Pistol Peter…
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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the next pistol pete?
Well, he won’t be the next Marvich. Pete was the ultimate shoot first point guard. I mean the guy averaged 44 points a game over his 3 year college career. 44 points would be a good month for Rubio.
Rubio
may be the exception to the “International Players take longer to develop” rule.
I don’t see where he could be a major contributor to the Wizards THIS year… but the kid has been playing Professional Basketball, in the 2nd best Basketball League in the World since he was 14 years old. In this latest draft, Rubio was both the youngest player, and the most experienced; having played the last 4 years in the EuroLeague.
So, I don’t think his acclimation to the League will take very long. Mostly, he’ll have the normal Rookie problems dealing with travel, the length of the season, etc… As for the actual games, it should take him less time getting used to the speed, tempo and style of the NBA than even a Senior out of College.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Right
I don’t think we should apply large labels to individuals so liberally. Rubio’s not Darko.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
On a side note...Veremeenko?
My first question is whether the stats are saying the internationals develop in the 5th or 6th year? But I’m assuming that its saying the 5th year and that time includes the period they spend abroad.
So isn’t it time to bring over Veremeenko? We drafted him in 2006. So three seasons have passed since we picked him. If we bring him over now to be the 13th or 14th man on the bench at the rookie minimum, he can start getting acclimated to the U.S. and NBA basketball.
This 4th year he can learn from some vets and come in with the fresh new coaching staff. He’s a cheap option to fill our roster and can take over as our 5th big next year if we sign a one-year type guy to be our 5th big this season.
Apparently, he took a big jump last season in Europe. Let him play summer league this year and start practicing and learning the system. Let him play summer league next year and start contributing. Hopefully, he can break out next season or at least show enough to climb the depth chart a little and really contribute in his 6th season.
Would Rubio have even played here?
He seems like such a prima donna right now that I actually question whether or not he’d be willing to share the ball with Gil.
Well, We Know His Agent Wouldn't Help in This Matter
He seems like such a prima donna right now that I actually question whether or not he’d be willing to share the ball with Gil.
Gil’s former agent and Rubio’s current one has been telling Rubio that he can’t fit in Washington for awhile now. That is why Rubio refused to have anything to do with us leading up to the draft. That is the biggest reason why the trade wasn’t a bad one, because Rubio would have probably never played for us and all of the other draft picks available would not have been able to contribute this season of maybe even next.
I think there is a good chance Rubio will be a solid player, if not a star, in this league. But he’ll be playing for some other team, and there really wasn’t much Ernie could do to change that.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
It was not a cast iron guarantee
That Rubio didn’t want to play here. Fegan said something but Saunders and Grunfeld would certainly have a chane to meet with Rubio and talk with him.
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Jun 29, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm Reminded of That Scene in "Dumb and Dumber"
“So you’re telling me there’s a chance? Yeahhh!”
Seriously, I want no part in this soap opera. We have a very small window of opportunity that I do not want to see hijacked by the immature whims of an 18 year old spoiled brat. I think it is absolutely ridiculous that David Kahn has to meet with Rubio in order to beg him to come play.
“Pretty please, Ricky, wud ya pretty please like to come to Minny and pway for us? With whipped cream and a cherry on top? It’s not that cold, we think your mom might actually like it? We got the world’s biggest shopping mall, don’t you know?”
Thanks but no thanks. The kid needs to grow up before I hand him the keys to my team.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Again, I think you're being way too harsh on Rubio
This is as much his agent’s doing as his. Plus, if you look at his ridiculous buyout, he needs to be in a good enough situation where he makes good money on his second contract to pay it all back. He also can’t really go back to Spain so easily because he’s currently suing his team for said ridiculous buyout.
He’s taking a hard-line stance, but it doesn’t mean he’s a drama queen, crybaby, etc. It does mean that his situation is complicated and it might not be worth the risk, but that should absolutely not be confused with a huge character flaw on his part.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Then Explain
Why can’t he get a good contract with Minnesota? Didn’t they just give up two solid rotation guys so that they could clear the competition in the backcourt and draft him? And if Rubio is so worried about his contract, why did he give the cold shoulder to Memphis, who could have paid him a lot more money on his first contract? If it was all about the money, then he would have wanted to be drafted as high as possible.
If anybody is making this thing complicated, it’s Ricky Rubio. I didn’t make up the part about the cold weather, he actually mentioned it to reporters twice. What a great reason to not want to play for a team. If he can’t go back to Spain, then someone ought to memo his dad, who seems to disagree. And if Rubio can’t control his own agent, then that is just another sign of his immaturity.
As for me, I’m purposely not following the Ricky Rubio soap opera for the same reasons I avoid paying attention to celebrity gossip. Thankfully, as a fan of a team that did not draft Ricky Rubio, I need not care about him for awhile.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
slotted
Why can’t he get a good contract with Minnesota?
The NBA payscale is slotted. I’m not defending his position, but he CAN’T make more than his buyout on his rookie contract. That’s why they wanted him in a bigger market city, where he would have a better shot at endorsement deals. That’s something else that makes him unique, in that he’s coming here for the challenge. He’s already a star at home, and because of his buyout he will be clearing less money in the beginning. He’s really taking a pretty big risk coming over here.
sorry
I meant to say unless he negotiates a lower buyout number.
One other thing about him essentially holding the team over the barrel. It may not be very honorable, but you have to take into account that he actually got screwed from his current club. They took advantage of his youth and his parents’ inexperience in contract negotiations and signed him to a very inexpensive deal. Hence the huge buyout amount.
Valid Points
But that is why I think he should have been smarter in selling himself to the highest bidder. I understand the slotted rookie contracts, which is why it would have made sense to sell himself to Memphis. He could have gotten an extra $3 million per season for his first three seasons had he gone #2, which is where his talent should have gotten him. That’s almost half his total buyout. Add to that the $500K the Grizzlies could offer to aid in the buyout, and he would have profitted heavily even during his first contract!
And why the concern with small market teams? Minnesota has proven it is willing to spend money on its players. Just three seasons ago they had the 6th highest player payroll in the NBA! They proved they wanted Rubio by shipping out their two of their best guards in order to make room for him. Why wouldn’t they be willing to pay him a handsome second contract? Why wouldn’t he be willing to use the opportunity to prove himself there, at the very least?
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
it's not
the team in the small market, it’s the city. There are less endorsement opportunities in the smaller cities. I think he would be ecstatic to play in New York. But I also think it would be a mistake. I think he would have a better chance to succeed, at least initially, in a smaller city. The scrutiny that comes with playing in the Big Crapple is overwhelming to a lot of people.
As for his draft position, I don’t pretend to know what he was thinking, but I believe his preference would have been an Eli Manning type deal, where he still goes in the higher slot, but is immediately traded.
Correction
He could have gotten an extra $3 million per season for his first three seasons had he gone #2
Should have read:
He could have gotten an extra $3 million for his first three seasons had he gone #2
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Pau Gasol and Navarro
Both those guys painted a picture of Memphis as a terrible place for Spanish players to go…. both had bad experiences there… bad enough that Pau demanded a trade… and Navarro went back to Spain, rather than stay in Memphis.
Rubio didn’t want anything to do with Memphis because of that.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
The perfect situation for Rubio was Sacto
California ! Warm, laid back California.
They needed a Point Guard – he would have gotten playing time
A young team – to grow up with
A City, and State, with a large Latino population. – Plenty of endorsement opportunities.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I feel sorry for the Kings fans
But I hope the team is awful next year and the whole front office is cleaned out as a result. It’s a joke that Sacramento drafted Tyreke Evans over Ricky Rubio.
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Jul 1, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
supposedly
ernie had evans higher on our draft board than rubio. evans looks like a good prospect to me.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 1, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
But Evans isn'
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Jul 1, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry about that
I was going to say Evans isn’t a real PG and is nowhere close to being a PG in the NBA (in my view).
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Jul 1, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
What Does Marc Feel About All of This?
If you are right, then he must be one lonely, miserable guy. And I don’t think that Chris Wallace is going to let him go anytime soon.
Rook, do you have any idea what those bad experiences were all about? Is there anti-Spanish sentiment in Graceland?
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Nope
Rook, do you have any idea what those bad experiences were all about? Is there anti-Spanish sentiment in Graceland?
I looked, but could not find any references to actual events or specific problems. However, it was widely reported that Rubio talked to both Navarro and Pau Gasol. Rubio played with Gasol on the Spanish National Team and has a good relationship with both him and Navarro.
Several news outlets said before the draft that Navarro and Gasol had “less than ideal experiences with the Grizzlies.”
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2009/06/the_missing_holiday_rubio_sli.html
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
im not an espn insider and dont hace access to the article but I (from first glance) dont give alot of credence to articles like this. Each player’s situation/skillset is so unique you really cant compare one to the other. What does Josh Howard/Tim Duncan’s success have to do with Tyler Hansborough?? What does Nikoloz Tskitishvili/Darko’s hardships have to do with Rubio?? What is your definition of “to develop”?? How many of the players in this study were starting members of a highly ranked international team that had faced off against a “dream team” the summer before??
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