EG good team comparisons

by DarrellWalkerFan on Jun 28, 2009 3:26 AM EDT Comment 24 comments

1998-1999 Knicks - lost in NBA finals. big 3 = sprewell, houston, and camby. supporting cast = larry johnson, charlie ward, kurt thomas, chris childs (ewing was hurt)

2000-2001 Bucks - Lost NBA Eastern Conference Finals (4-3) versus Philadelphia 76ers. big 3 = allen, cassell, robinson. supporting cast = tim thomas, scott williams, ervin johnson, jason caffey, lindsey hunter, darvin ham.

assuming all we do from here is add another serviceable big man, where do we stack up against these teams?

Poll

on paper, is this EG's best team ever?

yes

15 votes

no, knicks were better

15 votes

no, bucks were better

4 votes

no, you forgot a better EG team, dummy.

2 votes

36 votes | Poll has closed

This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.

0 recs | Comment 24 comments

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Comments

i can't decide

someone want to help me out?

by DarrellWalkerFan on Jun 28, 2009 3:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Knicks

had real chemistry that was larger than the sum of their parts. I think that’s what EG is going for here.

by MR on Jun 28, 2009 7:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Eastern Conference

Wow, those were some lean times in the east. Sure, we should be better than either of those teams (Bucks and Knicks), they both look pretty underwhelming. I’ll settle for matching the ’04-05 Wizards (45 wins and the second round of the playoffs).

by hotplate on Jun 28, 2009 8:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think that the Knicks

look so underwhelming because they had the fourth best defense in the league that year and it’s easy to forget good defensive players. I think that we’re going to be a lot more like the Bucks, who had the best offense in the league that year along with one of the three or four worst defenses. I’m guessing that we’ll have a top-five offense, 17th or so defense, and we’ll make the second round or sneak into the ECF against the Cavs.

by pantslessyoda1 on Jun 28, 2009 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Seems pretty reasonable

Though I think we’re a second-round team for sure.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jun 28, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We're

somewhere between the two teams. The Knicks had pretty decent talent. Camby in his prime, Houston was one of the 2 or 3 best shooters in the game, and Sprewell was one of the best slashers. But overall, it wasn’t even the 2nd or THIRD most talented Knicks team of that decade. What they did have that can’t be discounted was playoff seasoning. They were used to being one of the top teams. I’ve always believed a team that KNOWS it’s going to win is very dangerous. That confidence is hard to overcome, and means a lot in crunchtime.

by CJHutch on Jun 28, 2009 12:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Eh, playoff experience was overrated in that case, I think

Plus, Sprewell and Camby didn’t win anything before coming to that 98/99 team and they were two of the team’s best players in the playoffs.

The Knicks team was somewhat mismatched, but there was much more talent there than what we currently have. I think with a full season, their record would have been better. They suffered because they made so many changes and Patrick Ewing was never in shape from being overworked as the president of the player’s association.

(Btw: book recommendation — Just Ballin by Mike Wise and Frank Isola. Great read).

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jun 28, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"much more talent", really?

are you including ewing? i’d kind of written him off since he was mostly washed up by then and the team seemed to play better without him.

each team has three all-star caliber players, but arenas might be the best player of the whole lot and haywood or miller might be the best 5th best player.

i don’t think either of those teams were particularly deep.

i can’t remember if i’m underselling larry johnson though.

by DarrellWalkerFan on Jun 28, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ewing was still their top guy all year

And while they played just as well without Ewing in the playoffs, they certainly struggled without him during the regular season.

You’re probably right about Gil there, but I’d probably take Ewing, SPree and maybe even Houstoj over Caron and Antawn. The last one is close.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jun 28, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, but...

keep in mind they didn’t acquire sprewell until 2/3 through that season…

by DarrellWalkerFan on Jun 29, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, they got him in the offseason

He was there the whole time. Remember, it was the lockout year.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jun 29, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks for the correction

that’s the right explanation thanks.

by DarrellWalkerFan on Jun 29, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That team was excellent defensively overall.

When Ewing went down it seemed to kick everyone up a notch.

LJ was very good for that team and Houston was excellent.

by MR on Jun 29, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

when ewing went down they also

moved sprewell to the starting lineup and played a three guard offense (i think).

by DarrellWalkerFan on Jun 29, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My memory

is that Spree was starting prior.

I was a Knicks season ticket holder at the time, but my memory of the details isn’t as sharp as Wiki’s.

by MR on Jun 29, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

basketball reference

says that spree played 37 games that year (during the regular season) and only started 4.

by DarrellWalkerFan on Jun 30, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was hurt, IIRC, for part of the year

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jun 30, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i did look at the wiki i could find

didn’t realize the knicks were an 8 seed that year (first one to make the finals).

now i really hope we’re better than that squad!

by DarrellWalkerFan on Jun 30, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

trying to get my facts straight

i had my facts mixed up but i still don’t know about ewing at that stage. he was 36 years old and he missed three quarters of the previous year with his wrist injury. he was never the same afterward. he only shot 43.5% from the floor that year, which is dreadful. i’m sure someone could crunch numbers on his usage rate and find he was really hurting the team offensively. he either wasn’t healthy or was seriously on the decline, or both.

IMO, the problem was, he didn’t know he was over the hill yet. while there’s no way he could have played a supporting role on that team (due to ego reasons), in hindsight, that’s probably what he should have been doing. (hence, the bill simmons “ewing theory”). if you look at it like that, i’d (still) argue that ewing shouldn’t be considered part of the “big 3” on that knicks team, but rather objectively valued as a supporting player.

if you go from there:

arenas, butler, jamison
VS
houston, sprewell, camby

haywood, miller, foye, ? (whichever young’un steps up)
VS
ewing, johnson, ward/childs, thomas

if arenas is the best player of everyone, i really think it’s a close call.

defense might be our achilles heel, but if we have better chemistry than that team (with ewing), and if one of our young’uns breaks out… one can dream about a run to the finals, right?

by DarrellWalkerFan on Jun 29, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know

In retrospect, you’re probably right. I definitely overrated Ewing considerably.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jun 29, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

let’s hope haywood does a better job coming back from his wrist injury!!! (the similarities are eerie.)

i’m realizing it’s hard to remember details from 10 years ago.

by DarrellWalkerFan on Jun 29, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

The NYC media made him out to be more over the hill than he was. He was still the man. I always hypothesized that the rest of the team stepped it up in his absence to show they could.

by MR on Jun 29, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i dunno man, 43.5% for a center

that ain’t getting it done.

by DarrellWalkerFan on Jun 30, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh

I think playoff experience means a lot. Sure, Sprewell (who never lacked of confidence) and Camby weren’t playoff seasoned, but the rest of the team was. I think players who are used to getting there every year, have a leg up. They’re not overwhelmed, or consumed, with the thought of just making it. And they’re not caught up in the hype. Furthermore, I believe when it comes down to needing to make a stretch run, or come back from a deficit, the seasoned teams are far less likely to wilt. Of course, there are always exceptions, but I think history has proven this to hold up more so than not..

by CJHutch on Jun 29, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs