2009 Unrestricted Free Agents - Who fits?
by Rook6980 on Jun 28, 2009 10:10 AM EDT
132 comments
Obviously, the Wizards are going to have to do something about their unbalanced roster. With 7 Guards, 2 Small Forwards and only 4 Bigs, they're going to have to pick up another Center or Power Forward. I'd like to see them pick up BOTH another Center and another PF; preferably both veterans.
There are 3 ways to obtain the players the Wizards need:
- They can either use Mike James' expiring contract, with other "asset(s)" if necessary; and trade for a player.
- They could dip into the Free Agent market using the Mid Level Exception
- A third option would be to pick up an un-drafted player (Josh Heytvelt, for instance).
Perhaps I'll look at the other options later, but I decided to look at the Unrestricted Free Agents and see if there's anyone that would fit.
What are we looking for? Well, I don't think that Offensive proficiency should be high on the list. The Wizards will have no trouble scoring points. They need someone that can come in for 15-20 minutes to spell Haywood, or Jamison. A bench guy. A role player. Someone that is an excellent rebounder. A veteran would be preferred. If the player is a good one-on-one defender as well as a Shot Blocker, that would be a plus. Ideally, since this player will be on the 2nd team, you'd like to see a smart player that can set screens, run the pick-and-roll / pick-and-pop game, and limit turn overs. In other words a better rebounding Darius Songaila.
After the jump, we'll go through the available options.
The Unrestricted Free Agent list is fairly long. More than 100 players. I needed to pare the list down to a manageable level. First, I removed all the Guards, and Small Forwards; after all, we're just looking for help in the front court.
Next, I removed guys that most likely will not be available in Free Agency. Guys like Eddy Curry, who has an Early Termination Option, but is scheduled to make over $10 Million next year if he stays in New York - and Al Harrington who has a Player's Option; if he stays in NY will make over $10 Million. Both players will be staying where they are; because they'll never get a better deal. Others in the same situation are Mark Blount, Brian Skinner, etc. On the other hand, Anderson Varejao has a Player Option for 2009-10, but he is expected to opt out; so he stays on the list.
I also removed guys like James Singleton (Dallas) who has a Team Option; assuming that their team will exercise that option. (I'd snap up Singleton in a heartbeat if Dallas lets him walk - but it won't happen).
I've also removed Shawn Marion, Carlos Boozer, Lamar Odom, Rasheed Wallace and Mehmet Okur. There will be lots of competition for their services - and all those guys will probably command more than the MLE; or will be re-signed by their clubs. Let's face it, the Wizards are just not going to be in the hunt for those guys.
Next, I removed the perpetually injured or out-of-shape. (Chris Mihm, Robert Swift and Jerome James). I also removed the players who have seen better days - the aging vets that just can't bring it any more. (Sorry Juwan Howard, Malik Rose, Calvin Booth, Donyell Marshall, Theo Ratliff and Jamaal Magloire).
Finally, I removed anyone who is considered a very poor defensive player or a poor rebounder - I mean, afterall, what are we looking for here? (Mikki Moore, Maceo Baston, Sean May, Melvin Ely, Stromile Swift, Raef LaFrentz, Jarron Collins, etc... are gone)
Here are the guys that are left. We'll start with the players that I think are worth a good chunk (if not all) of the MLE. However, let's just remember that if the Wizards tender a MLE offer (roughly $6 Million) to ANY player, at the end of a 5-year contract, that player will be making close to $8 Million. That's a lot to pay for a back-up. (See Etan Thomas in the dictionary of overpaid players).
Although I didn't find the "perfect" fit, there are a number of interesting and productive options:
PF 6'9" 245 lbs , 13-year veteran , Last Year: $600 K , Rebound Rate: 19.30 , R/40: 13.00 , TO Rate: 7.3 , PER 16.63
Best rebounder in this list with a 19.3 rebound rate. Smart player. Excellent team defender. His jumper is almost automatic from 15-feet. Low turn over rate. Even though he's 34, he should still be able to put up decent rebounding numbers because he's an excellent fundamental rebounder (excellent at boxing out, and using his position and strength). Very Steady mid-range shot. The Wizards could get McDyess for less than the MLE - depending on whether Detroit really wants to keep him or not. McDyess is very nearly a perfect fit.
Anderson Varejao-
C 6'11" 260 lbs. 5-year veteran , Last Year: $ 5.7 Million , Rebound Rate: 15.00 , R/40: 10.10 , TO Rate: 10.3 , PER: 14.62
Varejao has a Player Option for 2009-10, and he is expected to exercise that option and become an Unrestricted Free Agent. I personally feel that he's making a mistake. He will be leaving $6.2 Million on the table to pursue a bigger contract. I don't think he'll be able to get more than the Mid-Level Exception (roughly $6 Million).. If the Wizards are willing to take on a long-term contract (5-years), Varejao would be an excellent choice. (Plus, I'd love to see LeBron called for charging as Varejao, wearing a Wizards uniform, "flops"). He's an excellent defensive player. He's an intense player that plays with high energy (perfect for a 2nd unit). He's very good defending the pick-and-roll. Great at taking charges and an especially good rebounder on the defensive glass. Just don't pass him the ball on offense.
Chris (the Birdman) Andersen-
PF 6'10" 228 lbs. 7-year veteran , Last Year: $797 K , Rebound Rate: 17.60 , R/40: 12.10 , TO Rate: 14.6 , PER: 18.16
Extremely athletic. Exceptional shot blocker. Should garner lots of interest in Free Agency. Very good rebounder. A bit slender, so he gets pushed around by bigger PF's. Not much skill on the Offensive end; scoring mainly on put-backs, in transition and in the immediate basket area. Can he be signed? That's the real question. Andersen is adored by the fans in Denver; and the Organization would be crucified if they let Andersen walk. On the other hand, the numbers I've seen thrown around suggest that if the Wizards offered the full MLE, Denver might have a difficult time matching. Then the question becomes, would Chris Anderson actually leave Denver - after all, they gave him a chance to get back into the League last year.
PF 6'10" 250 lbs , 7-year veteran , Last Year: $ 1.4 Million , Rebound Rate: 17.70 , R/40: 12.20 , PER: 16.59
Gooden is probably the best Offensive player on this list - a poor man's Carlos Boozer. Can hit the mid range shot - and is crafty around the basket. He's a very good rebounder. Gooden uses his quickness and size to grab boards. He's a better than average defender. Gooden became a bit inconsistent after his trade from Cleveland, and may just need a little normalcy after playing for 4 teams in the last 2 years. Gooden will probably want the full MLE with a 5-year commitment. Perhaps a bit too much for what he brings.
C 6'11" 275 lbs , 6-year veteran , Last Year: $4.0 Million , Rebound Rate: 17.40 , R/40: 11.80 , TO Rate: 16 , PER 14.14
Not an especially good defender; as his idea of defense is to foul (5.6 fouls per 40 minutes) - But at 7-feet and 275 lbs, he can certainly be physical and bang inside. On Offense, he likes to play from the high post - and sets good screens. Does not block shots. Pretty good rebounder. Can hit a mid-range jumper if left open.
C 7'0" 255 lbs , 11-Year Veteran , Last Year: $ 8.4 Million , Rebound Rate: 10.90 , R/40: 7.90 , TO Rate: 10.1 , PER: 14.15
Good low post defender. Not very good defending the pick-and-roll. Will block some shots. Average rebounder. Low turn over guy. Can hit the 12-15 foot shot.
PF 6'9" 250 lbs , 3-Year Veteran , Last Year: $ 3.4 Million , Rebound Rate: 17.50 , R/40: 12.00 , PER: 13.78
Plays with high energy. Solid, strong physical defender. Excellent rebounder. Will block some shots. A real dud on Offense.
PF 6'10" 235 lbs , 7-Year Veteran , Last Year: $ 6.7 Million , Rebound Rate: 15.00 , R/40: 10.60 , PER: 13.37
Wilcox is a pretty good rebounder, but not a very good defender. Struggles holding his position, and does not put forth much effort on the Defensive end - preferring to spend his energy dunking on the Offensive side of the ball. Outstanding finisher around the basket. Athleticism allows him to block a fair number of shots.
------
Now for the guys that the Wizards might be able to sign for the Veteran Minimum. I see one of these guys (or someone like them) sitting at the end of the bench; not in the rotation. On the squad simply as insurance against injury.
PF 6'10" 225 lbs , 14-year Veteran , Last Year: $ 1.2 Million , Rebound Rate: 13.90 , R/40: 9.50 , TO Rate: 8.1 , PER: 13.85
Just an average rebounder. Not enough bulk to keep bigger players out of the lane. Excellent at taking a charge. Crafty veteran that does not make many mistakes. Very low turn over rate. Very good mid-range shooter.
PF 6'8" 250 lbs, 4-Year Veteran , Last Year: $826 K , Rebound Rate: 13.40 , R/40: 9.30 , TO Rate: 11.8 , PER: 16.49
OK defensive player. Average rebounder. Can shoot the mid-range jumper. Undersized.
C 6'10" 270 lbs , 12-year veteran , Last Year: $797 K , Rebound Rate: 15.50 , R/40: 10.70 , PER: 9.74
Foye is an excellent low post defender - holding position well and rebounding at a decent clip. Not a shot blocker. Offensively, he just cannot shoot. Probably one of the worst Offensive players in the league, BESIDES the next guy.
PF 6'8" 248 , 9-year veteran , Last Year: $797 K , Rebound Rate: 17.30 , R/40: 12.60 , TO Rate: 14.3 , PER: 12.02
Yes, yes I know. We already played this song. But Ruffin is a defense and rebounding specialist; exactly what the Wizards need sitting at the end of the bench. Offensively, he's a zero. Good team chemistry guy. Smart. Good rebound rate. Excellent fundamentals.
Alright everyone, tear it up.
Let me know where you think I've gone terribly wrong. Which players you like the best. Who should have made the list. Who should have been left off.
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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For some reason
I forgot to list Gortat… He would be an excellent fit for the Wiz on the 2nd team..
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Jun 28, 2009 10:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff, very handy
Your rank ordering seems pretty good, McDyess is definitely top of the list. (I am surprised at low Wilcox scores.)
My only issue is that you might have been too tight with the initial screen. I wouldn’t be surprised if we spend a little less money, and a Donyell Marshall or Mikki Moore is in the mix. In particular if we swap some guards for a big (we almost have to), and this guy is #5 or 6.
by RamV on Jun 28, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No Mikki Moore
I didn’t see much of him in the regular season, but he was an eyesore in the playoffs…easily the worst guy on the floor every time he went in, and hurt his team overall.
by steadyhand on Jun 28, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Boston had all of two quality frontcourt players against the Magic, and Mikki Moore still couldn’t get off the bench. It says a lot when Brian Scalabrine is taking garbage minutes from you.
by pantslessyoda1 on Jun 28, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Call me crazy...
but I like Wilcox the best. I am biased being a UMD gu,y but I think he gives us exactly what we need. He can be a dynamic scorer around the basket and he can rebound. He is like a poor man’s Amare Stoudemire.
by Kuruption on Jun 28, 2009 11:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Defense
His defense is the biggest problem. Thats why he in fact does’nt give us everything we need.
by lj15 on Jun 28, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed, but I don’t think Amare Stoudemire is setting the world on fire with his defense and it seems everyone wants him even if it means giving up Antwan (some even would give up CB). With Wilcox we get a similar style player without having to lose anyone of real value. As long as this team plays OK defense and everyone is healthy they will do well.
by Kuruption on Jun 28, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amare
I don’t really want Him because of his defense. I would take him though in we don’t give up to much for the other stuff he offers
by Unkle Wheez on Jun 28, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on
Amare’s offense>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wilcox’s offense. That’s not a fair comparison at all.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 28, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh i agree
I’m just saying that wilcox is a similar style player albeit not nearly as good, but still the same type of player. if you get wilcox then you use his him as an inside threat on a second team the way you would use amare on a first team.
by Kuruption on Jun 29, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Birdman would be awesome
…but I agree, chances are slim
by AndNone on Jun 28, 2009 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gooden or Zaza would be my choices though “Joe Beast” might want to come home
by Fundefined on Jun 28, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
gortat, gooden, sheldon williams
im a duke guy so i like sheldon, and he’s not a total offensive liability. he can hit a midrange shot. i like gortat b/c of his size and he can score. drew gooden is actually at the top for me. him and deshawn are good friends…although we’re not sure if he’s going to still be in a wizards uni. but he is a good scorer, can hit some midrange shots and has lots of energy but you were right in that he may cost too much
by theintz on Jun 28, 2009 12:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
for me the perfect combination would be gortat and mcdyess
it would bring defense, solid rebounding, and some offense. gortat could be worth the MLE for a year or two. this could make us able to sign mcdyess for the vet min. i think that this late in his career mcdyess is more focused with a championship than with money. if he sees us building our team to compete for a title it could attract him.
by wizchamp on Jun 28, 2009 12:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That'd be great
In the “embarassment of riched” category, but there aren’t the minutes to support those guys plus the 4 we have, so there’s no reason to spend the money.
by RamVA on Jun 28, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea probably taking one of those guys is enough
the could fit in our rotation without taking tom much minutes from javale and blatche. then we could get a backup just incase of injury, someone like foyal who we don’t need to give a lot of minutes to. i’m pullin for gortat to the wiz, i became one his supporters when he blocked lebron in the playoffs
by wizchamp on Jun 28, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too expensive
If McDyess signs for the LLE or vet’s minimum, I’ll hand this blog over to a Pistons fan for a day.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 28, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking about this last night, and I realized we might not need anyone
I mean, as insurance, it would be great to have Shelden Williams or even Etan if the Wolves buy him out, but realistically, we’ll probably only play four guys in the playoffs. Look at who the some of the elite teams played:
Cleveland – Smith, Varejao, Big Z, Ben Wallace, occasionally Lebron at the 4
Lakers – Gasol, Bynum, Odom
Nuggets – Birdman, Nene, KMart, occasionally Melo
Celtics – Big Baby, Perkins, Scalabrine
Realisically, we only need four decent big men, and as long as Javale can put on muscle and ‘Dray stays in the Palace of Good Play, we should be fine. I think that we’re probably too deep in the backcourt and it would be nice to get another big, but I would be just as happy if we traded away one of our young guards for a future pick.
by pantslessyoda1 on Jun 28, 2009 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
i think the extra big is just insurance incase of injury
by theintz on Jun 28, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think another big will make an impact
But it’s if and only if he’s in the 3rd or 4th spot in the frontcourt rotation.
by RamVA on Jun 28, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly what I'm saying
We shouldn’t pay a lot for a 5th man in our big rotation
by gorebd on Jun 28, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
trade for camby
You guys tell me if a trade for Camby is possible.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi … eId=pk3c4m
Its really close with Crit but it doesn’t work. Works with Stevenson added
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi … eId=ogykfa
I think they would do the first deal they need a backup pg pretty badly and they aren’t taking on a lot of salary. Maybe we could sign a small free agent for 367,934 and trade him.
I don’t think the clips do the second deal, Stevenson’s contract has more years on it and who knows if he will play again.
They Clips want to open up front court minutes for Blake Griffin, but they also want to get minutes for Deandre Jordan. When he got a chance last year he had big games.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/deandre_j … stats.html
Blake Griffin and Zach Randolph at pf and Chris Kaman and Deandre Jordan is a deep front court. No reason to lose Camby for nothing.
In the free agent pool I like Dyce, Sheed, Zaza, and Birdman. In the past its been hard top attract top free agents. Now we have a top head coach and a team loaded with talent. In this down market I am hoping the mid level exemption could get us a sheed. What more do other contenders like Cleveland, Orlando, or Spurs have to offer than that?
by forthepeople on Jun 28, 2009 1:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Here are those bad links
Camby Trade
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pk3c4m
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ogykfa
Deandre Jordan Stats
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/deandre_jordan/game_by_game_stats.html
by forthepeople on Jun 28, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Going for the bigs....
No surprises here. And some good possibilities
I would like to see us pick up a true 5 as we need to insure against (1) Brendan getting another freak injury and (2) getting outbid for Brendan next season. If (2) is a MAJOR concern, then you need to look at the Birdman, Gortat and Zaza. for the midlevel. If (2) is NOt a serious worry, then Rasho makes good sense. If Zaza could do to other teams what he perpetually has done against the Wiz, the Zazz would be All-NBA.
Offering Andy V is an intriguing possibility as he is a terrific energy guy at the 4/5… the effect his presence would have on Blatche’s motivation (or continued tenure) needs to be taken into account.
I am not in favor of making a run at Dwight Gooden. There has to be a reason (flakiness, court sense) why he keeps moving around despite putting up numbers that are creditable on the surface.
I think Shelden Williams might be a fine investment. He is still young and basically just needs the right situation. Atlanta was absolutely stupid to draft him, what, 6th. But he is a very athletic big man with a nose for the ball (heyyy how about those hoops cliches, fans?).
Good to see James Singleton getting some props. He can play, and if he is somehow available, he would make a fine addition.
Ruffin… ahh that thing against the Raptors (only time my son and I ever bought courtside seats) is indeliby etched on my brainpan.
by khrabb on Jun 28, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow what a game to have courtside seats at
But, what else would you expect from the Bullets?
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jun 28, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree a 5 is needed
The team is really okay at PF, but at center we have a guy who never plays big minutes and tends to miss several games a year backed up by a pretty big question mark in McGee (who I’m high on, but at times he looked overmatched last year). I’d go:
1. Gortat (good center who might flourish if he can get out from behind Howard)
2. Zaza
3. ’Dice (a 4, but a good fit for this team)
4. Nesterovich
I’m not considering Birdman because I don’t think he’s obtainable.
Please no Varajao — I can’t stand watching him play. He’s overrated in Cleveland, so there’s no way we should pay enough to get him. And did I mention I can’t stand him?
Gooden has always looked good to me, but his own teams fans always hate him. I’m guessing they know something I don’t.
by steadyhand on Jun 28, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like Varejao either
but it’s a funny thing – the guys you hate, are just the kind of guys you’ll love, if they were on your team.
I hated Hinrich – always grabbing, pushing, irritating – never getting called for the foul…. but, man, I’d love to see him in a Wiz uniform… Same with Varejao, flopping, hair swinging everywhere, all that expended energy (like Etan), the complaining – but if he were a Wizard, I’m sure you’d change your mind.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Jun 28, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope I don’t change my mind. He’s one of my most hated players in the league. If he rapes someone, he might jump up to #2. If he rapes someone AND is a crybaby, then he’d jump to #1.
by se7en on Jun 29, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guarantee you
that all the calls Varejao would magically disappear once he leaves the King’s team.
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Jun 29, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just dont see how any of these players increases the wizards overall internet/tweeting presence… what would you guys think about charlie villanueva??
by dt3 on Jun 28, 2009 2:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I dont think Villanueva rebounds or plays good enough d for us. He tends to shoot jumpers and we have enough of those guys. Also so far everything out of the bucks points to them trying to resign him. Thats part of the reason they traded Jefferson.
by forthepeople on Jun 28, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way too expensive.
We can’t get him unless we trade for him.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jun 28, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade is the only way we get the type of talent needed
But I think Milwaukee wants to sign him. That’s why they traded Jefferson. But I think that’s the type of move we need. I just think sign and trades might be complicated by base-year compensation. So to complete a sign and trade, you have to have enough cap room to cover at least half the salary of the incoming player. We don’t have that so I don’t think we are eligible to do any sign and trades.
I think. That’s at least the sum of all the info I’ve been receiving.
by gorebd on Jun 28, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hah!
Tweeting presence is important!
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 28, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Angry presence up front
We need it.
Chris Anderson would work but it’s going to take quite a bit to get him. Gortat is in the same boat. I’d like McDyess, I think he could help mentor Epic Vale and Blatche (if there’s any hope left for him) and provide insurance for injury.
In terms of trades: What about someone like Chuck Hayes for the Rockets. Is he worth trading Mike James’ expiring contract? Is that giving up too much or too little, I don’t know.
by Natepyatt on Jun 28, 2009 2:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I lived in Houston for a few years so I have seen plenty of Hayes. Even a Mike James expiring is to much to give. The guys available on the market are much better. I would rather save that contract for a bigger deal.
by forthepeople on Jun 28, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s a fair point. Wasn’t sure about Hayes’ value.
by Natepyatt on Jun 28, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love Hayes
But James’ salary is much larger than Chuck’s, so it’s difficult to find a way to snag him. But he’s so underrated.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 28, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Free Throws
As long as he doesnt get fouled he’d be good. His free throw shot is difficult to watch.
by lj15 on Jun 28, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need a strong 5, not a decent 6
I think the key is to use our assets to get an upgrade over Blatche and then have a 5th big that can play PF or C in a jam. So you ask, “why give up on Blatche?” Because we can’t rely on him to be a major contributor, but we can’t stunt his growth by dropping him on the depth chart.
My solution is to trade for a major player and use the bi-annual exception for our 5th guy. We have to get more firepower because right now there’s an arms race in the Eastern Conference. Cleveland and Orlando made trades that leave holes, but now there are rumors of someone like Sheed or Marion taking a paycut to join one of those teams. I don’t think we have enough pull to get one of those guys for cheap and we don’t have the financial ability to pull someone like Boozer.
Send Blatche, Nick Young and Mike James to Atlanta for Josh Smith. Include the 2010 1st round pick if necessary. Then sign McDyess if he’ll take the bi-annual. If not, then target Foyle or Nesterovic. The biggest issue would be the question of who starts, but I’m sure they could make it work for the pursuit of championships. Especially since they’ll still be getting fat paychecks and plenty of minutes.
by gorebd on Jun 28, 2009 2:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like the arms race analogy....
IF we go for “limited nuclear options” that are within our reach, then targeting the Birdman or Gortat at the 5 would be significant, then adding McDyess….
by khrabb on Jun 28, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need a balance
Our active roster balance should be something like 5 guards, 5 bigs, 2 small forwards. Obviously, some players are versatile. Right now we have 7 guards, 2 small forwards, 4 bigs. I previously wanted a guy like Anderson, Gortat or Zaza, but now I think that will have less impact.
Our top 2, Jamison and Haywood, would be a given, but then if we get that MLE player, who gets the minutes off the bench between McGee, Blatche, and MLE? We’re not getting full value for someone. Somebody is the odd man out and gets minimal minutes..Either we paid a lot of money for an MLE to be a 5th big man, Blatche becomes 5th and is overpaid and gets his growth stunted, or McGee takes a step back in development despite his flashes of brilliance and maybe having the most upside.
I’m saying that instead of getting that MLE guy, we need our Odom. We need a big off the bench that is a great talent and would start on most NBA teams. Let our young big be the 4th man in the rotation to keep developing. Spend the bi-annual exception on a 5th guy in the rotation who doesn’t really play, but is an insurance policy. I just don’t think the full MLE guys would be as helpful to our team.
by gorebd on Jun 28, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blatche wouldn't be overpaid
He is sitll making $1.5m less than darius would have been making this season.
Worrying about his salary is the last concern, but I think Haywood probably maxxes out at about 30min/game and I don’t think we feel comfortable having to play either Javale or Andray for almost 20min/game out of position at the 5.
If we could get someone like Gortat or Zaza for 2 years at the MLE to play backup center it would complete our team and I would be more worried about Javale’s development than Blatche’s in that situation.
by Manimal Smith on Jun 28, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a bad idea
We can’t include the 2010 1st pick, though, because of the Sepien rule.
by RamVA on Jun 28, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Knowing is half the battle
I wasn’t familiar with that rule, thank you. But could we include a 2011 pick? I think that getting rid of Josh Smith’s contract, getting two cheap promising talents, and more cap room for next summer will be enticing enough for Atlanta. I just mentioned the draft pick as something that may swing them to do the deal. I’d rather keep the 2010 pick anyway because next year’s draft is supposed to be one of the strongest in years.
by gorebd on Jun 28, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt Atlanta gets rid of Josh Smith
…because they won’t get what “they” think is fair value in return.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.
by Truth About It on Jun 28, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's the Sepien rule?
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jun 28, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't trade 1st round draft picks in consecutive years
Ted Sepien used to own the Cavs, traded 1st round picks for mediocre talent, and ruined the team. Now the rule is there to protect against idiot owners. The beauty of Wikipedia.
by gorebd on Jun 28, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where is Smith going to play?
Again, cost matters, as we’ve seen from the draft. Do you want Josh Smith as your third big for 12-13 million or Andray Blatche for 3 million?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 28, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to see Sheed in Cleveland. That locker room would implode. Maybe they can throw in Artest and Marbury.
by MR on Jun 28, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
I Like Artest, He would have been great for this team pre-trade. He plays great defense. Can score while not caring as long as he plays well.
by Unkle Wheez on Jun 28, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course Artest is a good player. I was looking at his personality and his locker room presence, particularly if her were matched with Shaq, Starbury, Sheed and the guy who calls himself “King”.
by MR on Jun 28, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
any of these guys would work
but considering our current lineup, I’d prefer someone with height (6’10" and over) bulk (over 240lbs) and glass-cleaning skills (over 8rpg).
by Pryme on Jun 28, 2009 3:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep
It really shouldn’t be that hard to find someone like it. Hell, Dejuan Blair fit two of the criteria, and he went to the mid-second round.
by pantslessyoda1 on Jun 28, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
id be happy with signing Richard Hendrix ….and trading Javaris for Brian Skinner
Richard Hendrix 6’ 8" 250 lbs PF
his game is very similar to Milsap …low cost signing LLE
Brian Skinner 6’ 9" 265 lbs C
Solid emergency big
we add two heavy set players to do our top four bigs dirty work …both deals could easily be done
there is a better chance of trading Deshawn at the deadline since he will be entering next season as a expiring contract after the upcoming season
by eltacoman on Jun 28, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brian Skinner stinks
If we end up with Brian freakin Skinner for the price of not drafting DeJuan Blair, I officially quit.
(metaphorically, of course).
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 28, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yikes
Adonal Foyle? Really guys? I saw him play at Colgate for chrissakes. He is Calvin Booth like in capability.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Jun 28, 2009 5:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
but he's a big body
He rebounds and he defends…. He will come cheap (Vet minimum) – he’s a class guy (like Ruffin). It’s another 6 fouls to use on Shaq and Howard.
He’s absolutely one of the worst Offensive players in the League – but explain to me why that would be a problem on a Wizards team that has the potential to score 120 a night?
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Jun 28, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get what you're saying
I just don’t know if he gives you any more than Etan, and possibly even less.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Jun 28, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Foyle hasn't played meaningful minutes in the NBA for years
It’s not just that he can’t score, it’s that he can’t play anymore.
And are we really striving for Michael Ruffin? You’ve got to be kidding me.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 28, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
In a case where the Wizards fill TWO roster slots, it’s my hope that one is used for a big man that can help immediately
(Zaza, McDyess, Gortat or Nesterovic)… and a second slot filled with a Vet minimum guy (for emergencies) like Ruffin, Foyle or Joe Smith – with Joe Smith being my choice)…
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Jun 29, 2009 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather get a D-league guy
He’s hungrier and with more upside.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 29, 2009 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
over doing it
These guys should be brought in for what they can do in a 7 game series, not what they might be in 3 years. We already have 5 developmental players on the roster, 6 counting Foye. No need to wait on more upside when we require immediate, if temporary, beef.
by Jheiser3 on Jun 29, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Pachulia could be a really good fit
though maybe that’s just because he has huge games against the Wizards.
Now writing for Ridiculous Upside, now with more draft coverage.
by Jon L on Jun 28, 2009 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Zaza not a bad option...
Someone is goig to throw some bucks his way, same with Gortat… These are pretty decent players who would fill a clear-cut void on the Wizards current roster.
Having Adonal Foyle as a 12th man is also a reasonable option. He does not have much mileage for his age, is big, tough and smart, and is a good teammate. Jake Voskuhl is in that catgeory too.
by khrabb on Jun 28, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love Zaza
My number one choice. Tough guy, rebounds, can play both power positions, etc.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 28, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're getting too caught up in "4s" vs. "5s"
The NBA doesn’t really have that sort of position specificity anymore. The best teams play 4s as 5s and vice versa easily. We need to get someone that produces in ways we need, not someone that plays positions we need.
That means a rebounder, not a 7 footer.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 28, 2009 7:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think we need a 5 in the sense that he may have to match up against Howard and Shaq once in a while,
by MR on Jun 28, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Are Right
We don’t need a certain position, we need someone that can come in and fill a role for this team. Help sure up defense and rebounding. Last time I checked, defense and rebounding is not solely based on height
by Unkle Wheez on Jun 28, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
7 footers
I think the reason we are looking for a 7 footer is team defense is our biggest deficiency. We are above average rebounding at every position. Also between Mcgee and Blatche, Blatche has shown much more at this point. Mcgee although tantalizing I don’t trust him as our only back up center on the roster. If Mcgee isn’t ready that means Blatche has to play the 5. Hes ok there but his true position is 4 and its time we play him there.
by forthepeople on Jun 28, 2009 7:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I see what you are saying
But again, that’s talking height over production. Lots of 7 footers can’t play defense. A guy like Chuck Hayes, who is 6’6, is superb at it.
I think in general too many people are caught up in heigt when evaluating players. It comes down tocwhether you can perform on the court, not your measurements.
(God, that sounded way too much like mark Jackson for my liking).
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 28, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also contest that dray's true position is the 4
When he’s been so much better at the 5 thus far in his career.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 28, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has he really?
Do you mean that he has been better at guarding 5s or playing with his back to the basket?
As you said, teams don’t distinguish as much between positions anymore so saying he has been best at 5 is a confusing statement.
by Manimal Smith on Jun 29, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll address this in his player evaluation
I’m really referring to how he hasn’t played well in his career next to a true 5 like a Haywood or a McGee.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 29, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
anderson
the team needs a good backup center. McGee might be the guy someday, but not any day soon. if pollin is willing, get Varejao. everything i watch Cleveland play, i think ’that’s the guy we need’. His high energy and reckless abandon is what this team needs when they start playing tenative, which they do often. of course, he’s also strong and big, exactly what they need.
he’ll probably be too expensive.
by stevie on Jun 28, 2009 10:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The issue with Anderson isn't his price
It’s expecting him to leave Denver when he admits it’s practically the only city that has the necessary drug rehab infrastructure to treat his addiction.
(I also peersonally don’t see the point of going after him when we already have McGee whocplays the same reason. I’d rather go after a stronger one-on-one post defender).
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 28, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who is out of our price range, unfortunately.
Too bad, because I think he would improve our team a good deal. Then again, either Javale or Blatche would lose minutes to him, and I want both of them to succeed for selfish reasons.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jun 29, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: McGee
McGee might be the guy someday, but not any day soon.
I completely disagree with this. He could be the guy, and as soon as next season or the one after. I don’t understand why people think McGee is so far away. Yeah he’s still raw, but he was effective far more often than he was ineffective last year. He’s only going to get better with more time in the weight room and better coaching (which is now here).
I don’t really want a lot of competition for JaVale at backup C. He needs to develop into the All-Star I truly believe he’ll be, and sooner rather than later.
by YellaFella on Jun 29, 2009 12:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Can he play post defense? Does he have post moves?
I don’t really see Javale as a center unless he can add a ton of muscle and remain just as athletic as he currently is. I think he is more of an Amare style 4, than a true 5.
He needs more muscle to be able to play real post defense, and he needs post moves to play with his back to the basket. I am really not so sure that the 5 is his natural position at all given the skill set and athleticism-based-game he has shown thus far (not saying that centers can’t be athletic, its just that speed and explosiveness are rarely combined with post-capable strength – see Dwight Howard (or a Young Shaq) vs. most other center of this generation).
by Manimal Smith on Jun 29, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
His lack of a strong back to the basket game is really not that important since he still manages to score 15 or so points per 40 minutes, and it’s not like he’ll be anything more than a third or fourth option if he’s sharing time on the court with Nick Young, Foye, or Blatche. As far as his defense goes, I think that he makes a lot of dumb mistakes and can get pushed around a bit, but that his length and athleticism kind of make up for it, since he seems to alter or block a ton of shots. I’d almost compare him to Lamar Odom, who does a lot of dumb stuff on d, but who is actually a great defender due to his natural physical gifts. If Javale can get the leg and core strength necessary to guard Dwight or someone, great, but I’m still perfectly comfortable using him in a Birdman-like role.
by pantslessyoda1 on Jun 29, 2009 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JaVale is a Horrible, Horrible Defender
He may fool you by blocking a lot of shots, but when you look at the advanced stats, you see the team giving up boat-loads of points when he is on the floor. His adjusted +/- last season was -10.34. That’s just plain gosh-awful.
JaVale has the tools and talent to be a big time player, but I see him contributing majorly to this team no sooner than 2010-11. He needs a whole season of work in practices getting drilled on playing defense, including the fundamentals of not biting for pump fakes and boxing out. And when he does contribute majorly, I see him doing it as a PF, not a C. JaVale has the quickness and athleticism to play the PF, but not the bulk to hold his ground against beefier Cs like Howard, Shaq, or even Kendrick Perkins.
Bottom line – we need a competent backup C if we want to make a deep postseason run. JaVale is not either a backup C or a competent player, at this point.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jun 29, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"work in practices"
This should be a huge training camp for Vale. He could/should benefit A LOT from going up against Haywood every day.
by bwoodsxyz on Jun 29, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nuffin with ruffin
we need to either get varejiao or rasheed or both. forget about javale and his bird-muscle (if you saw his workout) wings for at least 2 more years.
by Tuffin Ruffin on Jun 29, 2009 12:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We need some hard-nosed, aggressive, big, bulky....
sounds like we are looking for stud muffins… but it’s not really man-love… we need a couple of players who take up space creatively and one of them is going to cost real money…
Zaza, Gortat, Varejao… any of them would bring something to the table that the Wizards need and it would not require taking a lot of PT away from Andray or JaVale… 96 minutes of big-man time… 28 each for AJ and Brendan, 18 for the new guy, 12 for AB (plus 6 backing up at SF) and 10 for JVM.
And then you have to take into account the inevitable injuries.
Look at it this way, last year we wound up relying on Darius Songaila to be our starting center almost the entire season. You can argue all you want that JVM should have gotten more minutes, but would you want him to be your fall back at Center this year, in a relatively go-for-broke season? NFW.
As an aside, I get a kick out of Mike and others who are contstantly playing the but-it-would-cost- too-much-money card. You all are like my Polish wife, except that in this case the money isn’t even yours :-)
For Mr Pollin I expect that money is an increasingly less urgent concern… His resources are not without limit but I think the purse strings are a good bit looser provided EG can make a good case for the investment.
by khrabb on Jun 29, 2009 4:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um
As an aside, I get a kick out of Mike and others who are contstantly playing the but-it-would-cost- too-much-money card. You all are like my Polish wife, except that in this case the money isn’t even yours :-)
For Mr Pollin I expect that money is an increasingly less urgent concern… His resources are not without limit but I think the purse strings are a good bit looser provided EG can make a good case for the investment.
You do realize we saved money with the Miller trade and sold our pick for cash, right? Money clearly is a concern here.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 29, 2009 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe, maybe not
You do realize we saved money with the Miller trade and sold our pick for cash, right? Money clearly is a concern here.
You’re making an assumption that isn’t warranted. It’s entirely possible that saving money was incidental to the trade, and Ernie simply jumped on the best offer. It’s also possible that the cash (and maybe the money saved in the trade) will be used to sign a decent UFA.
You may be right that saving money was a factor, but your argument doesn’t prove that.
by YellaFella on Jun 29, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what will prove Mike's argument
If the Wizards don’t make a real play for Zaza, Gortat, Varejao or Nesterovic, but instead go for a guy that makes $797K per year as the ONLY one they add to the roster. (Ruffin, Foyle, etc…)
If the Wizards spend the full MLE, or a good chunk of it, on a Free Agent Center or PF – or if they make a trade using Mike James’ expiring contract on a Center or PF – THEN, I’ll believe that the “purse strings have been loosened”..
So far, the indications are that Ernie has been told to do the best he can without spending a ton….
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Jun 29, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Money is an Issue, But Winning is More Important
We will end up spending almost as much money when/if we sign a MLE free agent than we would have had we not made a trade and kept both picks. The difference is, we will have added a lot more immediate production to our team with the former than we would have with the latter.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jun 29, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't
see how anybody doesn’t think saving money was a factor in all of this. Without getting into the dynamics of the players we got, I keep hearing over and over how we saved the money we would have had to pay the #5 pick. Then to pass up on some solid prospects in the 2nd round for cash just further cements it. I’m not trying to get into a discussion of whether we’re better off or not, because there’s no REAL way to tell that in June. But there’s no no doubt money was a factor in Ernie’s decision making.
You’re making an assumption that isn’t warranted. It’s entirely possible that saving money was incidental to the trade, and Ernie simply jumped on the best offer.
This is a valid point. It would be entirely plausible to say that we went into the deal for the sole purpose of acquiring these players. But, for one, the whole argument for why we didn’t get a pick back is because of the toxicity of Etan’s contract. We had to give up more to get them to eat his deal, which makes it about money. Then, when you add in the cash for the second round pick, that’s too many coincidences.
by CJHutch on Jun 29, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And it's more than just coincidences
Pollin and company have a long history of making cost-cutting moves. Now, to his credit he committed over $150M just to Arenas and Jamison alone last year, and the purse strings overall have been loosened to a certain extent. But the rest of the evidence points to the Wiz trying to keep away from spending too much over the luxury tax threshold. Can’t say I blame them, though. It’s the economy stupid!
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jun 29, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Have to Factor in the Whole Offseason Before You Say the Goal Was to Save Money
Abe has given the greenlight to Ernie to go into the luxury tax, despite how much Abe hates to do that. The reason is that Abe wants to compete for a championship and he believes, like Ernie, that we already have the core of star players to do so. The goal is to add the necessary complimentary (aka role) players that it takes to supplement the core’s contributions and win a championship in the next few seasons.
Now, just because Abe has agreed to go into the luxury tax does not mean that he is willing to go far into it. So the goal is getting the most value for the money while considering our goal of winning a championship in the next three seasons. The contract we would have had to pay the #5 pick would have been $2.7 million, and $0.48 million for the second round pick. That’s over $3 million a year. But will either of those potential picks help us win a championship in the next three seasons?
Before you answer, remember that Rubio was unwilling to play for us. Also remember that Tyreke Evans and James Harden were already gone before #5, and there was good reason for Ernie to anticipate this. Also remember that DeJuan Blair is a PF, can only be a PF, and that we already have three guys that can play PF but none of them make a good backup C. So all of our draft options were going to either be on a guy who couldn’t help us majorly in the next three seasons or that wouldn’t fit any of our holes anyway.
Now consider that we are still planning on adding a vet, probably one that will earn the MLE (around $6 million per year). Consider that that player will be able to fill one of our major holes and can contribute right away. Consider that we saved $2.7 million by dealing away our #5 pick. Consider that we saved $2.95 million by dealing away our #32 pick ($2.5 million in cash received plus $0.45 million in salary saved). That gives us most of the money needed to sign an MLE vet. Now consider that by dealing away Songaila, we save $4.8 million next season. That should allow us to resign Haywood, allowing us to continue trying for the championship in the 2nd and 3rd year of the window.
When all is said and done, we are still going to spend as much, if not more, money than we would have had we not traded and signed both our picks. We are still going to pay the luxury tax. But the difference is we got more value (in terms of our unique needs) for our money while not going too far into the luxury tax, and have positioned ourselves to compete for a championship in the next three seasons.
Don’t forget, in addition to signing a vet for the MLE with our savings, we could still trade Mike James plus either Randy Foye, Nick Young, or Andray Blatche to bring back a major low post player in a trade that could potentially cost us more this season as well. So I would let the whole offseason play out before you write off these moves as cost-cutting. If Abe ends up spending more money than he would have otherwise, then I don’t see how you could call the moves cost-cutting.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jun 29, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying money was the determining factor
I’m just saying it’s clear Abe isn’t just going to spend willy nilly here. The budget is a concern. Even if he signs someone with the MLE, it happened in part because he sold a draft pick for cash.
So yes, to respond to the original poster (khrabb), it’s very dishonest to not consider money as a factor.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 29, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said money was not a factor....
especially so in a family business, even one in the 9-figure range (I just retired after several years in a similar comany).
However, I do believe that Mr Pollin’s circumstances and priorities may have changed somewhat (and remember, this team is not going to be kept in the Pollin family when Abe is no longer around).
I am on the side of those who are saying, “Let’s see what happens over the rest of the summer deal-making season.”
by khrabb on Jun 29, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as I said
the proof will be whether the Wizards spend the MLE or trade James’ contract for a player that will plug the hole in our Front court….
IF, instead, the Wizards sign a stop-gap, aging, low level, minimum contract veteran – then it’s more about money than Basketball.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Jun 29, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it's Joe Smith, Adonal Foyle...
Michael Ruffin (Gack!) and no-one, else I will stand the first drink, Took.
by khrabb on Jun 29, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that the proof will be in how the Wizards complete this offseason. If they grab one of the higher-tier UFA’s you mention above, then it will clearly suggest Pollin is loosening the purse strings big time to win a championship.
That said, the fact that they’ve chosen to stay well above the luxury tax means their intentions aren’t “more about money than basketball.” If they sign the stop-gap minimum contract veteran – a player that still could be useful – it’ll just mean they like anyone else have their limits.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jun 29, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are Probably Arguing Over a Very Thin Line
Between this comment:
For Mr Pollin I expect that money is an increasingly less urgent concern… His resources are not without limit but I think the purse strings are a good bit looser provided EG can make a good case for the investment.
and this one:
You do realize we saved money with the Miller trade and sold our pick for cash, right? Money clearly is a concern here.
Neither one of you are saying that money is not a factor, and neither one of you are saying that money is the primary factor. So the two of you essentially agree, except I think Mike considers the money more of a factor is terms of degree than khrabb.
I think money is always a factor, no matter which team. Even the Knicks are becoming more salary conscience these days. But I agree with khrabb’s original comment completely. Rook’s comment below is applicable. Assuming Ernie goes out and uses the MLE, then I think it is fair to say that money is a less important factor to Abe than positioning the team to win a championship.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jun 29, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or the Lakers deciding to sell their 1st round pick. Every team has to factor in money to some degree, especially in this economy.
Clearly, money played a factor in the trade even if the primary goal was to field a better team. I tend to feel Grunfeld got just the right balance.
But for money reasons I find it doubtful the Wizards will offer any player close to the max allowed for an MLE. It’ll be closer to the veteran minimum than the max for an MLE. My assumption is also that Grunfeld would also prefer to sign someone to a 1-year contract and maybe a 2-year contract, but nothing long-term. In Grufeld’s eyes, the core of the Wizards team is already in place now.
It is also possible Grunfeld will work out another trade that will represent cost-cutting but also will produce a better team next season.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jun 29, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Be careful, Mike
it’s very dishonest to not consider money as a factor.
Statements like that are inappropriate and unnecessarily incendiary. You don’t know any more than khrabb or anyone else (including me) what role money played in these deals. Calling people liars is beyond the pale, however. I hope you re-think your comment and apologize.
by YellaFella on Jun 29, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heat of the battle...
no offense taken in any case, but YellaFella’s note is appreciated.
Mike, you do a fine job and this is really a superb site, but from the perspective of my 66 years I suspect a deep breath before you hit the post button would not be a bad thing.
Best wishes from Warsaw!
by khrabb on Jun 29, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was calling the argument dishonest
Not calling you a liar. But I realize it’s easy to conflate the two, so I’ll choose the word a bit more carefully next time.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 29, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
You have no proof, have offered no evidence, that the argument was dishonest. Dishonesty=lying, Mike.
There are extremely valid reasons to suspect that it’s not all about money with Abe:
- Arenas and Jamison deals
- Paying the Lux tax no matter what next year
- Paying more money for a top-flight coach than one would for a rookie coach
Those are just some examples of counter-arguments. Now, these arguments don’t prove Abe is or is not cheap. But they are plausible points for argument. Calling his argument dishonest is stupid on its face.
by YellaFella on Jun 29, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oy
(This is seriously my last post on this subject. Khrabb and I have made up (I think? Have we not?) and it’s so counterproductive to make this more than it is).
I never said it was all about money. I just said that money was a factor. You’re the one putting words in my mouth there. I’ve spent about five months making the same arguments you just presented.
And no, there’s a difference between calling a poster himself a liar and saying his argument was dishonest because it left out a piece of the puzzle. The former is an ad homenum attack, not the latter.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 29, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's counterproductive
Is to call someone, or someone’s arguments, dishonest. That’s a loaded phrase — as a journalist, Mike, you know that (or should know that).
If that’s not what you intended, you should just come out and say it. Saying the arguments were “conflated” is another way of weaseling out of an apology for saying something you shouldn’t have said.
And you’re right; it shouldn’t be a big deal. I don’t think making a few posts on a topic is the definition of a “big deal,” so I don’t see how this discussion qualifies as one.
by YellaFella on Jun 29, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While it may be loaded phrase
It seemed pretty clear to me that there is a distinct difference between calling a person “dishonest” (or a “liar”) and calling an argument “dishonest.” A dishonest argument isn’t a lie, it’s just an incomplete one. I understand the criticism of the phrase, and perhaps its use was overly harsh, but given that it didn’t rise to the level of a personal attack it doesn’t appear to be anything worthy of raising a fuss about. (Especially since the two parties are cool with each other.)
I think we all have to be careful to divorce our personal feelings from our personal viewpoints. It’s okay to make arguments about the latter and to have them criticized on this board, because that’s how we learn and expand our minds. As long as everyone remembers to draw the distinction between actual persons and the words those actual persons use, we’ll all be okay.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jun 29, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
boy
did this conversation take a left turn. I’m probably coming in late, but I’ll give my 2 cents anyway. I think that the “dishonest” part of Mike’s statement referred to khrabb not using all the evidence in his assessment. And I happen to agree. Now, the problem is that this conversation is taking place in text, not in person. So it’s impossible to see, and hear, the tones and mannerisms being used. I don’t think anyone really believes Mike was being offensive, so this thread went way too far in the wrong direction.
As far as the original argument, you just can’t dismiss the fact that, historically, Pollin has not spent as much as other teams. I also think it’s widely known that he doesn’t have the capital other teams have, which is why Leonsis was brought in in the 1st place. Now, he has shelled out plenty in recent years, mainly to Jamison and Arenas. And I know he has supposedly given Ernie the greenlight to surpass the tax threshold. But I’m pretty sure he didn’t give EG a blank check. He wants him to be prudent, and if he’s going to get taxed, to be sure it translates to winning, probably sooner than later because of Abe’s health. The bottom line is that these moves saved money, an undeniable fact. And nobody knows if they made us that much better yet. Nor will we until around May.
by CJHutch on Jun 29, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Villanueva
He’s now a free agent starting July 1st. Maybe too close to Blatche, and gets knocked for being too lackadaisical, but he’s a solid player.
I still think we need a back-up center to really be a contender. (I’m going to keep pushing to trade for Kaman — that’s the way we compete with Howard and Shaq, with two solid centers).
Thoughts?
by oatmealeater on Jun 29, 2009 6:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
just like i said in my fanpost ( shameless plug)
I agree that CV is a very solid player. I don’t think he is that close to blatche though. Charlie is far more athletic. His shot is also far more developed than blatches. I also think CV is more of a play maker on the defensive end, he would be a great weakside contributor with his long wingspan and atheltic ability.
I like the Kaman idea. If we could package up a couple of guards, and even blatche (i could only hope), Kaman would be a great add. He has played well when healthy the past couple of years. The additions of Kaman and Villanueva would give us one of the most sound teams in terms of match ups and overall team depth in the east.
by Spanky731 on Jun 29, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Completely agree
In the same division as Howard, going after the EC title with Z/Shaq… We bring one legit center into a 7 game series? Our starting PF is undersized and struggles defensively. Neither McGee nor Blatche can defend with their feet, hips and chest. Those kids are swatters, speed bumps defending those bigs. We don’t need another 7 foot bean pole. A 6’10 road block with some guile will do.
by Jheiser3 on Jun 29, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Blatche did a decent job of holding position last year.
Of course, I think it’s because he was overweight, not because he put on muscle. Someone needs to get ahold of that kid…
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jun 29, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't want Villanueva here
Too many lackadaisical characters here already. I want a murderer, a beast, a bruiser, a brawler.
by YellaFella on Jun 29, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good news
look like we could probably get Yao for cheap right now.
by CJHutch on Jun 29, 2009 7:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Varejao won't leave Cleveland
because this is the year Cleveland has to put a ring on Lebron’s finger. They will want to keep Varejao even if he opts out. The Wizard’s best bet is McDyess.
Also, I like Shelden Williams. He is a little small at 6-9, 250, but that is the same size as McDyess. He is all about defense and rebounding. In less than 14 min/g with Minn, he had a 5 rebound average. He also had half a block and steal in those 14 minutes. He average over 3 blocks a game over a 3 year span with Duke. He could be an asset off the bench and he is entering the prime of his career. It would be a good fit.
by blueridge on Jun 30, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shelden Williams
Is not getting the love he needs to get. I say he does the things they we need done. play defense and rebound. Any thing he scores is gravy. We can score the bucket. Also he is young. If we sign him and a Center like Adonal Foyle we would be in business.
by Unkle Wheez on Jun 30, 2009 7:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Misconception
I’ve read this a few places, why would Varajeo opt out of 5-6M guaranteed. Its not about the salary he is due to make next year. Its the total guaranteed compensation. At the very least he will get 5 years of the full MLE and another opt out clause. That’s close to 35M guaranteed. That’s why he will opt out.
by Jheiser3 on Jun 30, 2009 10:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Varejao
Two years ago, he held out in a salary dispute with Cleveland. Speculation at the time was that Varejao’s agent was asking for $9-$10 Million per year; although I could never find any credible reports that actually had quotes from Varejao or his agent stating that number.
The Charlotte Bobcats eventually signed him to a three-year offer sheet for the full midlevel salary cap exception, and Cleveland matched… but there was a player opt-out option after the 2nd year, and become an Unrestricted Free Agent.
Varejao has exercised that option.
I don’t think he’s worth more than the Full Mid-Level exception – and I don’t think ANYONE except Cleveland will offer him more. If Cleveland low-balls him (Full Mid-Level or less) – I expect him to sign somewhere else for the Full Mid-Level.. If he thinks he’s worth more, he may sign for a short contract (2-years) with another player option. His contract negotiations with Cleveland have been rocky – to say the least.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Jul 1, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know the back story. It was questioned as to why he would opt out. As i said its not about one year but years 2-5 on that guaranteed money.
At 6’11 260, and being one of the best defensive forwards in the league he will get paid. There are some smart GM’s out there who will value his effect on the game. It won’t just be the Cavs. He’s worth the full MLE here but thats nto going to happen.
Memphis: plays with Thabeet, Gasol, Darrell Arthur and Hakim Warrick in the front court.
Detroit: with Okur and Boozer off the market they could go defense first.
Dallas, Houston, OKC too. If the Nuggets lose Birdman he is a natural replacement. He would fit in Phoenix too.
by Jheiser3 on Jul 1, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Problem is
there aren’t that many teams that can offer him $8 Million a year…. Detroit, Portland, etc… but most teams are already over the Cap. Detroit will go after Ben Gordon and Hedo (or Charlie Villanueva ) first… Portland is reportedly going after Turkoglu. Dallas and Boston are looking at Rasheed, but neither has anything except the MLE to offer.
OKC will probably go after Paul Milsap
Dallas and Houston will be interested in Gortat
So – I just don’t see an $8 Million contract offer coming for Varejao …. If I’m Cleveland’s GM, I would wait. He will probably not receive any offers other than someone’s Full-MLE.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Jul 1, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Varejao
I think Sheldon Williams is as talented as Varejao defensively, maybe more so if he was given Varejao’s minutes. We don’t need the offense as much from a backup 4, we need a banger, blocker, rebounder. Williams can do that at least at the same level for less money.
Grunfeld is going to let other teams throw big money around early and then see who is left standing when the music stops. Then he’ll go in with his mid-level offer and hope that someone pretty good is left over.
by blueridge on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
sheldon williams
and candace just had a baby, not sure if he would wan tto come to the east coast
by theintz on Jul 1, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no
but im just saying its more likely he’ll get picked up by a team in the west or atleast closer than washington
by theintz on Jul 4, 2009 10:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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