i still like what we did

by DarrellWalkerFan on Jun 25, 2009 11:50 PM EDT Comment 38 comments

in anticipation of a really downbeat post tomorrow and general outrage, i'd like to try to inject some positivity and get a contrarian viewpoint out there.

first, i would have liked a move for VC (sorry i didn't reply to your post last year Rook, i liked your proposal), but the move we made is arguably better. first off we get two good players, not just one, which is a definite plus. second, we have tons of flexibility with these guys in terms of their contracts. we can choose what we want to do with them after next year once we see how it works out. that's valuable.

second, i think EG might see something in foye. he might have pounced on that trade. he's young. he could be another caron for us: a guy everyone thought would be great out of college, had some knee issues, bounced around, then EG picks him up and he's frigging awesome for us. (maybe it's wishful thinking, but i'll come back to that in a second...)

as for rubio, three teams passed on him in a weak draft. he could be great, but maybe it's just hype... that's all i've got to say.

one of these guys will turn out to be the guy we could have had. "we picked kenny green?! we could have had karl malone!!!" well, what about all the other busts we didn't pick either? you can always play that game. it's wishful thinking to assume the 5th pick will be a perennial all-star down the road. i understand the risk/reward argument, and it's valid, but anyhow, i'm going to cross my fingers and hope foye puts it together in dc.

i respect what EG did. he improved the team. we're going to be good next year and i'm looking forward to it.

This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.

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What about making a financial decision when we have already decided to make a basketball motivated trade?

Selling the pick is a clear indication was scared about the decisions he has already made. He is worried that we will lose alot of money if the trade he made doesn’t pan out and so he tried to show Abe a big $$ figure rather than making a truly obvious selection to solve a roster issue HE CREATED TWO DAYS EARLIER.

The sale of the pick is simply flabbergasting and yet another indication that this franchise hasn’t recovered from being the mess that it has been.

by Manimal Smith on Jun 26, 2009 1:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

wow even you're outraged now.

you were defending EG hard earlier.

yikes. hope someone still on the positive side.

by DarrellWalkerFan on Jun 26, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually I still have your back

I won’t restate cupps points (Rubio might stay in spain ect.), but its far too early to start getting bent our of shape. If the roster still consists of only 4 bigs at training camp, I will be a bit hacked off, right now I am content to see how the summer plays out.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by ledellforlife on Jun 26, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not me

I’m not outraged. I’m actually kind of disappointed. it’s the same old Wizards\Bullets. We haven’t made a significant move since we got Caron.

I was so happy when we signed Ernie. “A REAL LIFE GM! —-WOO-HOO!!”. Now he’s fallen in line with the past. He’s like Jack (Nicholson) Torrance in The Shining. He came here as a jolly guy with good intentions, then the hotel(or in this case the Phone Booth) took him over and made him do evil things.

by CJHutch on Jun 26, 2009 6:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

At First I Was Devastated

But recent developments have convinced me that Ernie may in fact prove his genius once again. Remember the hype surrounding Juan Carlos Navarro? Remember how disappointed we were when we traded him for a highly protected future first round pick? Well then JCN trotted back to Spain after only one season and Ernie gave the protected pick back to Memphis for a #19 pick in a deep draft. Memphis got the short end of the stick on that whole episode.

It looks like Ernie will get the better end of this deal too. He dumped two terrible players with two terrible contracts and the contributions of bench player Darius Songaila for two really good guards, who fit the Wizards needs and are both good enough to start, and salary relief. Minnesota got back Songaila plus a prima donna / diva / douchebag who will likely trot his Frodo Baggins looking ass back to Spain for two seasons because him mom doesn’t like cold weather. Ernie wins again.

As for DeJuan Blair, I would have loved to have him. But he probably wasn’t the best fit for our team. He is barely big enough to guard PFs, and he definitely could not guard centers in this league, except for Hasheem Thabeet (Grizzlies are suckers). Meanwhile, Andray Blatche and JaVale McGee are both players who are more suited to playing PF and also would have trouble guarding the league’s beefier centers. So ideally we will use the $3.5 million to help offset the MLE we will pay towards a competent backup center that will help us stay in the game defensively for the 20 minutes per game that Haywood is on the bench. What if that player turns out to be Marcin Gortat, will everybody still feel like the money was a waste?

Let’s wait to see what happens before we throw Ernie under the bus. He proved himself right after last year’s disappointing draft. He may yet prove himself right again.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jun 26, 2009 8:09 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Agreed about Blair. His slot can be filled with someone better suited for the team, even though his hustle is just what we need.

Rubio…I think is worth the risk.

It’s just frustrating to have made deals that are debatable, even handed, equalling out…when all around us our rivals are getting steals from fire sales.

by MR on Jun 26, 2009 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My MAN

Rubio…I think is worth the risk.

YES and..

It’s just frustrating to have made deals that are debatable, even handed, equalling out…when all around us our rivals are getting steals from fire sales.

DOUBLE YES

by CJHutch on Jun 26, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Think About This Again

Rubio…I think is worth the risk.

Can a team that has to “win now” and has only about a three season window to win a championship really afford to invest so heavily into a guy that has a 50% chance of not even playing for you for two seasons? I fail to see how that risk is worthwhile. Rubio sounds like an immature flake who obviously needs to grow up more before he is worthy of the responsibility of being a top 5 pick.

It’s just frustrating to have made deals that are debatable, even handed, equalling out…when all around us our rivals are getting steals from fire sales.

If Frodo Baggins waltzes his ass back to Spain for two seasons, for whatever reason, then this trade is not debatable, nor even-handed, nor equaling out. It will be considered a complete fleecing of the Wolves, more lopsided than the Kwame/Caron trade. At least Kwame played for the Lakers for two seasons after that trade.

This is a reply to both MR and CJHutch.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jun 26, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

just step back

and look at the whole picture from a neutral perspective.

1 – We are not going to win now. That’s reality. We are not better than Cleveland or Orlando, probably not Boston either. We are on par maybe with Atlanta and Chicago. Philly is either a little better than us or a little worse, depending on how Brand meshes. And that’s just in the East.

2 – Most of those teams have cores, or Superstars, as young or younger than ours.

3 – Wes Unseld is not lacing ’em up any time soon.

Taking all that into account, we need a big boost. Bigger than Foye/Miller. Maybe Rubio doesn’t provide that. So we’re at the same point we were. BUT, what if Rubio DOES meld to the NBA game and become an instant impact. It DOES happen. (Chris Paul, Deron Williams most recently). You’re right, that’s not very likely. But a big time playmaker added to our scorers could give us an element we don’t have, making us harder to deal with. I’m sorry, Foye/Miller don’t provide a difference. They are just more of the same. Maybe a few more 3’s, buto overall the same as what we have. Better? Sure, I’ll give you that. But the same skill sets. Draft picks DO surprise, and they DO have the ability to turn around a team.

But we will never know. So, for now, we have to settle for a 4-6 seed, and be prepared to watch the other teams in the finals.

by CJHutch on Jun 26, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're Too Pessimistic About Things That You Don't Know

We are not going to win now. That’s reality.

Is it? You don’t even know what Ernie is going to do next. Shouldn’t you wait and see before you write off next season for us?

Most of those teams have cores, or Superstars, as young or younger than ours.

Well, Boston doesn’t, so scratch that team off. Then there is Orlando, which got an aging Vince Carter but will likely loose Hedo and has already lost two of their playoff starters. And Cleveland doesn’t have a core greater than one player, and they just put a guy next to him who led to the decline of the past two teams he was on.

Wes Unseld is not lacing ’em up any time soon.

What about a healthy Gilbert Arenas and Brendan Haywood? What about the return of our other two multiple-time All-Stars? What about a player who, according to Prada, meshes nearly perfectly with Gilbert in the back court and is stone-cold accurate from the 3-point line? What about a servicable big man that can backup the center position and play rugged defense in the low post?

You should at least wait until Ernie is done before you cast judgment on his offseason performance.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jun 26, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gilbert +

Jamison+Butler+Brendan+Foye+the rest will get us to 4 or 5. Boston probably has one year left, unless they move Ray Allen for a younger gunner. Vince will make Orlando better. Yes he’s aging (just like Jamison), but when he’s on, he’s nearly unguardable. Shaq makes Cleveland better THIS year. Then you have Atlanta, who probably has the most athletic team in the conference and gets better every year, and Philly, who has probably the best post scorer in the conference. Chicago is erratic, but they have an emerging superstar in Rose. You can’t count Miami out with Wade. And what do all those teams have that we don’t?(Except maybe Miami) Size.

I’m being realistic. If you think that’s pessimistic, that’s fine. I thought after standing pat the last few years, we’d make a bigger move then we did. Yes, Ernie will probably make another move or two. But, truthfully, do you think it will be for a difference maker in the post, or a stop gap? I feel like it will be the latter. I HOPE it will be the former, but once again I’m being realistic. With scraps to offer, it’s doubtful we will land a stud down low. We could get one or two nice parts, but that’s it.

Now, here’s where my feelings differ from yours. Other than Jamison, we have a pretty young roster. So I don’t feel like our window is small. Which is why I don’t think it would hurt to take a flyer on a boom or bust guy. Our roster is better than 19 wins, so we won’t be back in the lottery for a long time, barring another freak year of injuries. So that 5 pick was basically house money. We had it to gamble with. And instead we played it safe, getting 2 solid players rather than taking the chance on a game changer.

Look, this is my position. How I feel. But I’m not too proud to say I’m wrong, and I HOPE I can say it. We won’t know until we see what Rubio does (not to mention where), and how Foye does here.

by CJHutch on Jun 26, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But you're not being neutral

Your argument is

1) I wanted Rubio
2) We are done for the summer

I agree with cupp, hold the phone until training camp. Then make a neutral observation. Its this type of kneejerk reaction that is going to turn us into a bunch of Knicks fans.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by ledellforlife on Jun 26, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are

missing my point. I may not be explaining it well enough. It’s not about Rubio. Would I have liked to have him? Yes. More than Foye? Yes. But that’s not the base of my argument. What I’m saying is, we don’t have a post presence. You don’t win without one. We will live and die by the perimeter game. That makes for exciting basketball (when they’re on) But it DOESN’T make for winning basketball in the playoffs. That’s a proven fact. Some people say Jordan’s Bulls are the only team to win without a solid post game in the last 20 some years. Except they forget how good JORDAN’S post game was. I’m not saying you need an all star down there. But you do need a presence, ore than Brendan Haywood.

by CJHutch on Jun 26, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think we are better for making the trade. I think our chances of getting to the finals got a little better with the trade. I’m willing to sacrifice that perhaps marginally improved chance to have Rubio on our team. Even if it’s next year or the year after.

Abe is not.

by MR on Jun 26, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not to further pile on

but the more I think about the deal, the more I like it for the Zards purported purpose.

All signs are pointing to Turk signing somewhere else…..and I think (and this is just me) that Turk + Lee + (possibly) Gortat > VC.

The RJ deal is classic Spurs, but those contracts, unlike those of Etan and Pech and Darius, were only partially guaranteed, which gave Milwaukee much need flexibility.

IF EG folows through on two more moves, I think that we are in prett good shape in the East.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by ledellforlife on Jun 26, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

fire sales

>>It’s just frustrating to have made deals that are debatable, even handed, equalling out…when all around us our rivals are getting steals from fire sales.

i truly think we did get a steal from a fire sale. minnesota was definitely in fire sale mode and we took advantage of it. might not be big names like VC or Amare, but i’m on board.

by DarrellWalkerFan on Jun 26, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

but

Blair would have come to us for next to nothing. You’re forgetting about the low cost of a 2nd rounder vs. a FA.

As for DeJuan Blair, I would have loved to have him. But he probably wasn’t the best fit for our team.

I beg to differ. Right now, ANY player with size AND strength would fit our team. We have exactly one power player – HAYWOOD. And, whether you like Brendan or not, you have to admit he hasn’t always been the most rough and tumble player. But he is now, and we need him to be even more so. If (when) Haywood gets into foul trouble, we’re in for it. We need muscle, wherever we can get it, so passing up Blair for money to buy Caron’s McDonald’s straws was ridiculous. We could’ve had Blair cheap, AND signed a vet big man. Now we have to shell out money for 2 big men, 1 probably washed up.

by CJHutch on Jun 26, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

but you don't know where the money is going

save your wrath if the wizards don’t attempt to use the mle. or for when they dont trade James and someone else for another PF. If we enter training camp with the team as currently comprised, bring the pitchforks – right now everyone needs to take a deep breath.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by ledellforlife on Jun 26, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bingo

It is one thing to ask Abe to pay the tax to compete. It is another to ask him to go way over the tax to compete. If Ernie is committed to paying the MLE, which essentially costs Abe $12 million because of the tax, then he owes it to Abe to at least try to recover some of that money by selling a second rounder, who probably wouldn’t contribute that much this season anyway.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jun 26, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Blair

has been compared to Big Baby Davis. I think it’s a fair comparison. Both are Ox-strong, both a little undersized, both with something to prove. Didn’t Davis contribute? And, lemme ask you this. Let’s say Haywood and Blache or Haywood and McGee or ALL THREE get into foul trouble. Who would you rather have at PF/C – Blair or McGuire? I vote Blair. Someone mentioned getting McDyess. At this point in his career, I think Blair is a lesser post presence than Blair. My opinion.

by CJHutch on Jun 26, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

DeJuan Blair Doesn't Fit

Because he can’t play center. We need bigs that can at least fill in at center in a pinch. Darius Songaila could, but we had to trade him to secure our back court. Now we have 3 bigs (PFs essentially) that can’t guard almost any center in the league and only one big that can. We need to focus on guys at least 6’10", and Blair was a good 5" shorter than that. He was never going to be able to fill in for Haywood against Dwight Howard, Shaquille O’Neal, or even Kendrick Perkins for that matter.

He would have matched up great against Hasheem Thabeet, though. Too bad we couldn’t draft Blair and then play Memphis 82 times next season.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jun 26, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good points

I’m fine with selling the 2nd rounder if we use the savings to sign a vet.

by MR on Jun 26, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Totally agree on this point

Blair (or if you aren’t high on him, ANYONE we could have drafted) could have been signed for next to nothing for 3 years and we still have a roster spot for an impact veteran. Selling him won’t even come close to the kind of money we need for a real impact veteran front line player, and so selling him made no sense and hurts our future.

by Manimal Smith on Jun 26, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

P.S. Taser

Why do people keep forgetting how AWESOME it is to have a player like Taser signed for 3 years @ 700k/yr? He is a legitimate rotation player and we are getting him for about 10% of what the T-Wolves are paying Brian Cardinal …

by Manimal Smith on Jun 26, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rec'd because of the Frodo Baggins comment

But I disagree because in my view Rubio and Blair were both were the risk (granted I said the same about Juan Carlos Navarro). With someone like Rubio you draft him, call his bluff and see what happens. Blair was very low risk at 32, not a lot of money and a badass rebounds who played bigger than he is. If you aren’t tall it is good to be wide (but not too wide) and some of that nastiness Blair showed is exactly what this team needs. I still am wearing black today.

"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on Jun 26, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As an aside

When you say “rec’d” I think that means you should actually “rec” the comment. Go to the button called “actions”, push it and you’ll see “Rec”. Push that and the comment is recommended.

Now back to our regularly scheduled basketball discussion.

by MR on Jun 26, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it was rec'd

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by ledellforlife on Jun 26, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you just have to go to the original "Frodo" comment

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by ledellforlife on Jun 26, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Rubio is Frodo Baggins

The would Blair be Samwise Gamge? Who would be Bilbo Baggins?

"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on Jun 26, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bassy Telfair

of course.

Actually, strike that. He would be Gollum.

My preciousssss, give me back my precioussss basssssketball

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by ledellforlife on Jun 26, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup

Love it when a poster points that out so I don’t have to.

(Being completely serious, btw).

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jun 26, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

YES

and some of that nastiness Blair showed is exactly what this team needs

by CJHutch on Jun 26, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is right on

We don’t know anything yet.

If EG has a plan in place to swap spare parts for a solid backup 4/5, then why does he need Blair? Wouldn’t you rather have $2.5MM? He might also want to keep the roster spots open, and if he knows he’s going to add a body it makes sense to keep the 15th spot open.

Given what we have, it makes perfect sense to draft Blair. What we don’t know is what else he’s got cooking, or at least in mind.

by RamVA on Jun 26, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nothing more fun

than having a #5 pick tell you to sit and spin.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by ledellforlife on Jun 26, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ernie and this draft

I got the feeling from watching Ernie on Washington Post Live yesterday that he really didn’t think much of anyone in the draft except for Griffin. Especially the second rounders. He just seemed bored with the number 32 pick. We are thin numbers wise up front, but would we feel better having Etan and Pesh filling up those last 2 roster spots? I think that one of the better aspects of the trade was that it opened up a roster spot, which makes give us much more flexibility. If Ernie and Flip can get Antonio McDyess to join us, I’ll be happy with the offseason moves.

by hotplate on Jun 26, 2009 10:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

again

I think Blair would give you more physicality down low than McDyess, who would be a stop gap. Blair could be a solid role player for years. What is it with this notion that we have to settle for retreads? That’s been our problem for 20 some years. We build our team with everyone else’s spare parts. Look at the top teams – all built through the draft, supplemented by free agency/trades. We do the opposite.

by CJHutch on Jun 26, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't Get Me Wrong, Hutch

I actually love Blair. I wouldn’t have minded if we took him #5 overall; that’s how much I was high on the kid. I think San Antonio is getting a real sleeper, a steal at that late in the draft. I was just as disappointed as anyone when Ernie passed on him for another guard.

But I’m trying to understand things from the Wizards front office’s perspective. As a fan, I would love it if we could go all Isaiah Thomas and sign everybody we can to help us win both now and in the future, luxury tax be damned. But obviously there are limits as to how far Ernie can go with the payroll. Abe has made it clear that he hates paying the tax, and will only do so when necessary. He is making an exception this year to compete, but it is not a huge exception.

Blair is another roster spot and another salary that has to be double-paid because of the salary. Yet Blair alone is not enough to fill our needs in the low post. I think I agree with you on your strong desire to acquire toughness in the low post. I’ve been on this board preaching for this for the past two seasons. But Blair by himself cannot fit that need. Ernie is probably going to fill that need with someone that can play both center and PF, since he has no adequate backup center. That player will give us more to fill our need here than Blair could. And because we sold the pick for so much money, it won’t cost us an arm and a leg to do it.

So, to summarize, we sold Blair because by himself Blair doesn’t fill our need, and Blair plus a low post veteran would cost too much money. So we chose option C, sell the pick for a lot of money so that we can afford a low post veteran to fill our need.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jun 26, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

smart and focused moves

Ernie had two goals: (1) add pieces so the Big 3 get one last chance to stay healthy and go deep in the playoffs. (2) stay flexible so we can blow up and rebuild in 10-11 if it doen’t work.

Mission accomplished. Neither Rubio (too disruptive) nor Blair (we’ll sign a decent vet for PF/C) would help next year. And neither are sure fire franchise anchors. So screw ’em.

I’m excited for next year. Gil and the boys deserve one more shot.

by agentdanny on Jun 26, 2009 10:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs