Caron Butler for Amar'e Stoudemire

by hibachi on Jun 24, 2009 8:19 PM EDT Comment 26 comments

I love Caron Butler but the way this team is built now, we have little to no front court depth. Those who believe we have a shot at a championship or even the ECF are somewhat delusional. In history and especially throughout this decade, no team has won a championship without a dominant big-man except for the Pistons who overachieved. Caron Butler does a lot of great things for this team but right now our backup PF/Cers are dray and Javale McGee. This won't cut it, especially in the playoffs and should either Antawn or Brendan go down we'd be in a world of trouble.

My proposal is to trade Caron Butler, Mike James, and Nick Young for Amar'e Stoudemire. This is the most talent they can get for Amar'e and maybe we'd be overpaying a little. We could possibly switch NY out for Cirttenton but I'm not sure if they would go for it. Anyway, our lineup would be the following:

PG: Arenas/Crittenton/Foye

SG: Foye/Miller/Mcguire

SF: Miller/Mcguire

PF: Stoudemire/AJ/Blatche or Javale depending on progress

C: Haywood/Stoudemire/Blatche or Javale depending on progress

This would clear up the logjam we have in the backcourt with Mike Miller getting the majority of SF minutes and sharing them with Dominic Mcguire. Antawn Jamison would come off the bench as a sixth man and Stoudemire could log minutes at the PF and Center position. Jamison could even play a little SF with Caron at the 2 to get all our best players on the court. I'm not sure if this lineup is championship calibur and maybe more moves would be needed, but I think it has some potential. We could always sign someone like Zaza or Drew Gooden for the MLE and I'd be happy.

This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.

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Umm

Why in the world would we do that? You are banking a whole hell of a lot on Foye to throw in Nick, and there is a huge difference between Young and Critter. I say make a move for an aging elbower who rebounds on the cheap and draft another bruiser.

by Unselds on Jun 24, 2009 8:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You're not going to draft anyone in the second round

that can make an impact this season

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk

by hibachi on Jun 24, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That package is probably a bit too much to give up for Amare

But I think your thinking isn’t too far off. I’d rather give that to Toronto for Bosh, though.

We have to remember that Amare isn’t coming back to Phoenix after 2010, so we have the leverage. I think Caron + James is enough.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jun 24, 2009 8:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You're probably right.

I wasn’t sure how much they valued Caron Butler but the cap relief with Mike James should do it.
Bosh would be great also. I might like him even more than Amar’e because his jump shot is a little stronger (I think?) and this would open up some lanes for Arenas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk

by hibachi on Jun 24, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And then Jamison goes to the bench

and we no longer have an all-star small forward? Or Jamison slides over? Didn’t everyone agree Amare doesn’t play defense?

by Unselds on Jun 24, 2009 8:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't know how well Jamison plays at the SF position.

If he comes off the bench he can still get a lot of minutes. I think pacing him at his age is prudent if we have big aspirations in the playoffs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk

by hibachi on Jun 24, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget

That Jamison bristles at any mention of him coming off the bench.

"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on Jun 25, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

can't stomach it

i like caron too much. amare is an ass.

bosh… that’d be a tough call.

by DarrellWalkerFan on Jun 24, 2009 9:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Caron & James

should be enough to get Stoudemire….

Bosh, you’d have to include Young… and Bosh is, in my opinion, the better player – He’s not the defensive sieve that Stoudemire is.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Jun 24, 2009 10:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

But again

Isn’t shooting guard a problem without Nick Young? You have Miller, who is too old, Stevenson, who can’t feel his face, Foye, who could be good or bad, James, who is no good. It’s not worth it to trade the future at SG for Bosh when you have Jamison. It would make more sense to trade Jamison, even though I am pretty much against that notion.

by Unselds on Jun 24, 2009 10:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think Jamison has as much trade value as Butler

If you want Bosh, you’re probably going to have to give up Butler . Butler’s got a reasonable contract. He’s an All-Star. He’s just hitting his prime. And if Shawn Marion walks, they need a Small Forward.

They could probably still field a pretty good team with a core of Calderon, Butler, and Bargnani; and still be way under the Salary Cap for the 2010 Free Agent pool.

Butler + the expiring contract of Mike James for Chris Bosh

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Jun 24, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dont think so

The SG position is now fine, it just has too many people there. Foye’s young enough where, if he plays well, he can be re-signed. It’s having both Foye and Young that’s problematic.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jun 24, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still think Young has more upside than Foye - and Miller will be more valuable than either.

My take: If Gilbert Arenas is healthy this year, Miller will be more valuable to the team than Foye. Miller’s 3-point shooting will open up the floor. He rebounds. He plays multiple positions.

Young will be Miller’s backup.

I think Young has a higher upside than Foye…
Foye has played 5,600 minutes over 3 years, and last year averaged 18.3 points per 40 minutes (3.4 rebounds per 40)
Nick has played less than 3,000 minutes over 2 years, and averages 19.1 points per 40 minutes (3.3 rebounds per 40) – and at a better shooting percentage than Foye…

Young is more the prototypical Shooting Guard than Foye. From what I’ve heard, Foye cannot guard SG’s (he even has trouble guarding PG’s). Young on the other hand, made some headway last year playing on the defensive end, late in the year. He has all the tools (6’7", 7-ft wingspan, mad hops, quickness) to be a good defender; whereas Foye is undersized.

I think Foye is insurance against another Arenas injury; After all, the last thing we need is Mike James and Javaris Crittenton playing PG this year.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Jun 25, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But having said all that...

Those are also the reasons that Young has trade value…

To get Bosh, the Wizards would have to give up talent… I’d love to get Bosh for Butler and James, but I think Toronto would want more – Therefore, the Wizards would have to probably give up Nick Young to get it done.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Jun 25, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Giving up Butler over Jamison makes no sense

I know part of the argument is that Jamison’s age and contract make him a less valuable trade asset, but Caron is our youngest all-star who also has the best contract.

I don’t think there is anyway to improve the team by trading Caron. If we can upgrade at PF to Bosh or Amare (not sold on Amare at all really), then its worth shipping Antawn and whatever other assets we have out of town, but how are we improving the team by giving up an all-star small forward who makes less than $10mil a year for a max contract power forward when there isn’t anything to suggest that Antawn can really slide down to the 3?

by Manimal Smith on Jun 25, 2009 3:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

uh

Jamison could even play a little SF with Caron at the 2 to get all our best players on the court

In your scenario, aren’t we TRADING Caron?

But I get the point. I actually didn’t like this at first, but after looking a little harder, it might be worth it. I am the one saying winning teams gamble, and to keep up with Cleveland and Orlando we need a big time post player. I actually think starting AJ at small forward may work. He plays out there for the most part anyway. True, he can’t guard any SF’s, but he can’t guard any PF’s either if you wanna be truthful. I think if we insisted on ONLY Butler and James, Phoenix would take it. Butler’s the best player they’re gonna get back, since everyone knows Amare’s bolting Phoenix next year anyway. However, I’d throw in Young if they agreed to take Stevenson as well. Maybe send us a fringe player to even it up a little money-wise.

by CJHutch on Jun 25, 2009 9:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah slipped my mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk

by hibachi on Jun 25, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Butler and Jamison arent going anywhere

and that has been made very clear. Im not even going to bother trying to dream up trade scenarios for them because there is no chance of it happening.

by lj15 on Jun 25, 2009 10:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

so you

wouldn’t trade Butler for ’Melo? Or even Lebron?

there is no chance of it happening.

Hey, you said it.

by CJHutch on Jun 25, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It Doesn't Matter

It doesn’t matter is what he’s saying. Would he if he were in Ernie’s shoes? That may be a different matter. But Ernie has made it clear he isn’t breaking up the band unless he gets an offer he can’t refuse.

And your hypotheticals have no chance of actually happening.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jun 25, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Offer he can't refuse...

I think the opportunity to obtain Bosh, even if it meant giving up Jamison or even (Yes, I’ll say it…) BUTLER…. is just the kind of bold move that would make the Wizards a contender.

Butler + James’ expiring + Crittenton for Chris Bosh (exchange Young for Critt, if that’s what it takes)

With a front court that included Bosh and Haywood, they would have a pretty good defensive base… Add the defensive abilities of McGuire as the Starting SF; and now you’re talking about a pretty good one-on-one defensive team… regardless of who plays Guard.

With Arenas at Point, and Miller draining 3’s – and a tremendous bench (Jamison, Young if he’s not part of the deal, Foye, and Blatche) – you get:

PG: Arenas, Foye
SG: Miller, Young, Stevenson
SF: McGuire, Miller
PF: Bosh, Jamison
C: Haywood, Blatche, McGee
32nd pick

That team is a scary one for the rest of the Eastern Conference…

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Jun 25, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed but..

But I think that I would much rather have to give up Jamison then Butler if it means throwing in the 32 pick as well as maybe Nick Young. That might be unrealistic but Butler has some good years left in him whereas Jamison is starting to get to the end of his career. Plus ive heard Jamison isnt the biggest fan of the bench.

by rginsber on Jun 25, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs