Minnesota reportedly has been working the phones nonstop and of all the teams in the league they're talking to, they've been in speaking with the Wizards the most. Some of the pieces Minnesota is believed to be offering up are swingman Mike Miller, who has a $9.75 million expiring contract, guard Randy Foye, the expiring contracts of Brian Cardinal ($6.75 million) and Mark Madsen ($3.6 million) and possibly the 18th and/or 28th picks.
Outlet. I trust Mike Jones, so I bet this is legit.
7 months ago
Mike Prada
71 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Well, Miller was not at the top of our list of veteran 2-guards...
but he is a definite upgrade and his contract is expiring.
Soooo. How about the 5 pick, the 32 pick, Pech and Thomas for Miller, Madsen, the 18 and the 28?? Miller really could contibute and Mad Dog would be fun as the last man on the bench…
But Vince Carter would be sooooo better.
by khrabb on Jun 21, 2009 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Vince Carter seems like he would want the ball in his hands more times then we have to offer. Plus Miller is a much more deadly shooter from the outside. Personally, I dont like Carter. But this is because I live near Toronto and was upset how he ditched the team there.
by Team Serbia on Jun 21, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wouldn't help the defense out
But having Miller on the wing would be great on offense.
by Matt K. on Jun 21, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Three partners who have attractive assets
This would make sense for all parties:
Minnesota OUT: Mike Miller ($9.75 mil) + #6 + #18 = $9.75 mil
Minnesota IN: #2 pick + Etan Thomas ($8.5 mil) + Pech ($1.5 mil) = $10 mil
Memphis OUT: #2
Memphis In: #5, #6
Washington OUT: #5, Etan Thomas, Pech
Washington IN: Mike Miller, #18
Mike Miller is irrelevant for Minnesota. He’s a 29 year old veteran making $9.5 mil on a team of 2nd, 3rd and 4th year players. He doesn’t fit into their long-term plans. If they are in love with Rubio or Thabeet, why not flip the 18th pick and Miller to maximize the value of their lottery pick this year?
Memphis no longer worries about Rubio and his buyout. They now have to worry about integrating TWO lottery picks on another very young and (even) more talented team.
We get a veteran shooting guard in Mike Miller who can shoot great from mid range or three. He’s more than capable of handling the ball, passing it, and creating for himself or others. His contract is also expiring, so if he works out, we should be able to sign him for less next year. We also stay in the draft at #18, where we could go any number of routes. Trading Pech opens up a spot for #32.
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Jun 21, 2009 5:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The question I have
is whether Mike Miller and #18 are worth more than Kirk Hinrich and #16. Miller’s contract is way better, while Hinrich is younger, but not necessarily better.
Then there is the question of who is better between Miller, Hinrich, and Harden. If Harden is still on the board, I would have to take him and pass on both of these trades.
If Harden is off the board, I believe Mike Miller and #18 are more valuable than just #5.
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Jun 21, 2009 5:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich vs Miller
Miller is a better fit Offensively, but Hinrich is better defensively…
Overall, Hinrich is a better fit. He’s still a pretty good fit on Offense – can catch-and-shoot, can shoot the 3, passes well, rebounds a little – and most importantly, he plays defense.
Miller is taller, shoots the 3 better, but an absolute dud on defense
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Jun 21, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we are getting down to the short strokes at last...
Hinrich is also a couple of years younger, I believe.
I think EG is going to turn the 5 pick and assorted other items into either Carter, Hinrich, Miller or Josh Howard plus a lower pick.
And regardless of the deal, the Wizards will be a better team for it.
by khrabb on Jun 21, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those three guys are all good targets
I’m excluding Carter because he is too expensive – he makes 6 million more than Hinrich, Miller, and Howard.
But I believe that Harden is too valuable to pass up at #5. If he is still on the board there, then the price for the pick should go up a lot.
If EG believes he can sign Miller for the mid-level after his contract expires, his value should increase for us as well. I think a $6 million Mike Miller is more valuable than Hinrich at $9 and $8 million or Howard at $11 and $12 million in respective years. That extra $3-6 million would make it a TON easier to re-sign Brendan Haywood.
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Jun 21, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no one wants foye?
A back-court of Foye and Arenas would be pretty sick if you think about it. Being able to work both guys in and out of the on and off guard positions would give us a lot of flexibility with two very talented guards who both could control the offense. I want Randy Foye out of Minny for our pick. This would allow minny to select a true point guard that they desperately need and would give us a great young piece in return. That villonova offense that foye lead with their three point guard sets was awesome, It’d be cool to see us bring that back. Only concern with him though would be match ups with the other teams two gaurd, foye is a tad under sized.
by Spanky731 on Jun 21, 2009 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Foye is a good fit
Neither Foye nor Arenas scores well off the pass, and neither defends. Plus, Foye’s percentages on jumpers have historically been below-average for shooting guards. If you have a true pass-first guy who scores off others more than himself, Foye works, but we have Arenas.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 21, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To have the #5 pick in the draft and a sizable expiring contract
And to exchange them for one year of Mike Miller is pathetic.
by disgrunted on Jun 21, 2009 6:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
this sounds like making a trade just to be doing something. None of the incoming parts do anything for me. I’d rather take a chance on striking gold in the draft.
by CJHutch on Jun 21, 2009 7:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Miller
I love this trade. Miller would be perfect for us and we would be able to stay in the draft at #18. Miller is a GREAT passer and a GREAT shooter which are two things we desperately need. We get rid of Etan and Pech (thank god). Miller instantly makes any team he plays for better. He rarely makes mistakes, he’s got great size and can play the point when arenas is on the bench. He is a complete player and he actually plays decent team defense. One on one defense is questionable.
Originally I wanted Hinrich but the more i think about it, Miller makes much more sense. Sure, Hinrich is younger but his contract would be awful for us. With Miller we can see how the year goes and then extend his contract for a much cheaper price than Hinrich’s would have been which gives us flexability to resign Haywood and maybe add another piece if necessary. This trade would be absoultely perfect for us. We would have legitimate depth across the board.
Arenas- Miller- Butler- Jamison- Haywood
James- Young- Steveson- Blatche- McGee and Dom and whoever we draft
The question is, however, who do you take at 18?? best player available?
by jeffco01 on Jun 21, 2009 8:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
running in place
Foye and Miller just don’t seem like enough for that #5 pick. I’d rather draft a young pg, and trade for an above average big man. There have to be some other offers out there besides this one
twitter.com/rashad20
by rashad20 on Jun 21, 2009 8:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It depends what comes back to us
I think Miller is a good fit here, and depending on what comes back for #5, is worth pursuing. I don’t like Foye and I don’t know about #18.
At the same time, Miller was traded for a team to swap the third pick with the fifth pick last year, so is he really worth 13 places in a weak draft?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 21, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't realize Miller was traded away so lightly last year
Granted, it was a pretty big jump considering how much the Timberwolves apparently loved Kevin Love. But if Thabeet falls to us, then a swap of 5/6 would be great.
This draft is weaker, but if Thabeet is still on the board at #5 then it would make sense again for Minnesota to swap picks to get their guy. This would be creating max value for their lottery pick, filling a sore need at center. If Minnesota looks at it as being a top-heavy draft with a drop off after Thabeet, it would make even more sense.
But I don’t see how Memphis passes on Thabeet with their weakness at center and the rocky situation with Rubio’s buyout.
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Jun 21, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weakness at Center?
Memphis has Marc Gasol – who, unlike his Brother Pau, is a true back-to-the-basket Center.
Admittedly, they don’t have much behind Gasol (Darko Milicic & Hamed Haddadi – - – and sometimes Hakim Warrick in small-ball lineups)… But those that think they can just move Gasol to PF and bring in Thabeet at Center will find out that Gasol doesn’t have a PF game.
It would be better for Memphis to move down and draft a PF like Jordan Hill – or trade the pick for a PF (Sign-and-trade David Lee from the Knicks, or Kevin Love from Minnesota)…
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Jun 21, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't have to be a Center to have a back-to-the-basket game
A down-low tandem of Gasol and Thabeet would work with Gasol’s offensive skill set and Thabeet’s (presumed) defensive presence. Thabeet wouldn’t be expected to start anyway, so he can come off the bench for Gasol or play minutes alongside him. I’m sure Gasol has the skills to play PF if need be.
Whether they are weak at Center or PF specifically, they are weak down low regardless. The only big men prospects in this draft are Thabeet, Jordan Hill, and Dejuan Blair. The best prospect is presumably Thabeet. If the Grizzlies are looking to fill their weakness down low, they’d take BPA and that is more likely to be Thabeet than Hill.
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Jun 21, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's like saying
a down low tandem of Haywood and Etan Thomas would work…
Or Amare Stoudemire and Shaq
It just doesn’t work…
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Jun 21, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if those comparisons hold up, Rook
Haywood and… Etan Thomas? That comparison holds no weight.
Shaq is a Center, Amare is a PF, so just because they didn’t work together doesn’t mean anything regarding two completely different players.
David Robinson and Tim Duncan worked together, didn’t they? Tim Duncan was a TRUE Center coming out of college. (true, these are 2 hall of famers here, but if the players are good enough, there is a way it could work)
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Jun 22, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a thought
Minnesota wants Thabeet. Thabeet falls past OKC and Memphis and is available at #5. Why not trade down for #6 and ask for a Miller/Etan swap to do it?
Then, take Curry or Evans.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 21, 2009 9:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If
that came to pass, I’d be fine. But actively pursuing Miller does nothing for me. He’s a decent offensive player, no good on defense. Seems like we have the market cornered in that department. Once again, I like Harden better than Miller if we’re shopping for a SG. Probably Derozan too, just for the potential upside.
by CJHutch on Jun 21, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have Harden than Miller
And probably Evans and maybe Curry too. Definitely not DeRozan though. Reminds me of Gerald Green without the jumper.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 21, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's
probably pretty accurate. Or he could be a poor man’s Vince Carter, or even Gerald Wallace. That’s what’s fun about the draft, is you could end up with someone who is much better than anyone thought. Dwayne Wade was very good in college, but NOBODY thought he would be this good as a pro. I’d love to see us get lucky, for once, in the draft.
What we could use is a finisher. Someone who will attack the basket aggressively, and get calls. And a few highlight dunks would be nice, something to get the team, and crowd pumped. Caron used to do that. Nick Young wants to do it. I don’t know what it is about Young. I feel like he has small hands or something. He can get to the rim, but he never has the ball with him by the time he gets there.
All that said, I’d prefer Harden. I really feel like he could be a Paul Pierce/Mitch Richmond type of player.
by CJHutch on Jun 21, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Expirings a good thing?
I’m struggling to understand why we would bring in an expiring contract such as Mike Miller for our #5 and an expiring contract. What good is one year of a guy going to do for us. Any addition short of an allstar is NOT going to get us further than the 2nd round next season. If you disagree with that, I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you. And no offense, but I don’t think we were inspired to grind this terrible season out with the prospect of returning to the glory days of one-week playoff passes to watch Cleveland kick our asses. We need someone who we can retain at least through the ’10-11 season which is the first season that the Wizards will conceivably make a deep playoff run.
by morethesamewiz on Jun 21, 2009 10:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe
that the overall thinking in aquiring expiring contracts is so that we can jump into the 2010 free agent fray? Am I correct?
Personally, I don’t see us clearing the cap room to sign a Dwayne Wade, (I know nobody is thinking we could sign Queen James right?). While there are plenty of all star players coming up for free agency next year, I do not like this course of action. Frankly, I am tired of overpaying for free agents while failing to develop our own players. Wouldn’t it be nice to have our own homegrown all-star for once? When’s the last time THAT happened?
by CJHutch on Jun 22, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Home Grown Talent?
Am I missing something/ Jarvis Hayes, Juan Dixon, Jarred Jeffries, and Pech . All home grown talent. They just didn’t grow enough, lol. So just on my band wagon. Pick 5… Harden or Evans. Trade into first round again and get Blair.
by Unkle Wheez on Jun 22, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I am in. Now get off this &^%&-ing blog and get on the horn with Ernie. Then we could stop all this Mike Miller, Randy Foye, Wilson Chandler talk. I don’t want any parts someone else is eager to get rid of.
by CJHutch on Jun 22, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose that means no Amare or Bosh
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 22, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not
sure their respective teams are actually eager to get rid of them. I think both are contract issues. So, in answer to your question, yes I would take either Amare or Bosh. However, if the aforementioned deal were available, and we could somehow end up with either Harden or Evans AND Blair, without giving up one of the (semi) big 3, I would prefer that.
by CJHutch on Jun 22, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phoenix seems pretty eager to give up Amare
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 22, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at the
end of the day, ending up with Harden/Evans and Blair would be better than ending up with a question mark in Stoudemire.
by CJHutch on Jun 22, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That I don't agree with
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 22, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you & I
seem to disagree on quite a bit, huh? All good though, as long as we both want the team to come out ahead. Makes for good debate anyway.
Just to clarify, I am a big fan of Stoudemire, and even made an earlier post about trading him for Jamison and maybe swapping picks with Phoenix. However, I am worried about his knee, not to mention how he would fit with the team. As I recall, his big hangup in Phoenix was/is about his role in the offense. He feels he should be the #1 option. While I don’t necessarily disagree with this, as 9 times out of 10, I will feel that a dependable low post scorer should always be your first option. But I don’t feel he WOULD be the #1 option here. Probably not 2 or 3, depending on if we kept Jamison or not.
by CJHutch on Jun 23, 2009 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess we don't disagree too much then
If that’s how you feel about Amare. My only disagreement is that I think the chemistry problems are overblown and the real issue is that he doesn’t want to sign an extension there. I’m also more worried about the eye and the contract instead of the knee.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 23, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
forgot
to mention the eye. But yeah, that is another issue. As for the chemistry, I don’t think he’s some kind of cancer, I’ve just heard him quoted as saying he wants more touches. And, yeah, then there’s the contract. Another argument for the draft pick. Much cheaper. Caron is due for an extension soon, which means a hefty raise. Jamison and Arenas are already taking up plenty of space. I don’t think we could afford another max deal, unless Jamison goes out in the trade.
by CJHutch on Jun 23, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
That is what we need. We could be good for a long time.
by Unkle Wheez on Jun 22, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, obviously anyone would prefer the top five pick and Amare to just Amare
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 22, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Harden and Evens
Both have all star potential. I also believe McGee has it also. Just look at all the rumors that have us giving him to good teams.
by Unkle Wheez on Jun 22, 2009 10:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How about this
Mike Miller – $9.75 Million Expiring
Randy Foye – $3.5 Million with a team option for 10-11
#18
for
Thomas – $7.3 Million Expiring
Stevenson – $3.8 Million plus $4.1 Million in 10-11
Songaila – $4.5 Million plus $4.8 Million in 10-11
#5
Washington saves $2+ Million in Salary in 09-10. Possibility of saving $8.9 Million in 10-11. They can decide to pick up the team option on Foye and have him on the cheap in 10-11, or they can resign Miller at a more reasonable rate. Both Foye and Miller are good long distance shooters. Miller is the facilitator and rebounder to be paired next to Arenas. Defensively this trade doesn’t improve you much, but Miller and Foye are likely the two best players in this deal and you still get a pick at #18 to add a youngster to develop at the end of the bench. Meanwhile you have no need for Stevenson with Miller and Foye added at the 2 and 3 positions. Thomas is worthless ,and Songaila leaving gives you more minutes for McGee and Blatche, and Songaila is ridiculously overpaid as a role player.
Thoughts?
by Ebomb on Jun 22, 2009 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If we do the deal for miller, we have to get more
And I think that minnesota can offer addition by subtraction. I do think that Minny will package the two picks for a top 3. But our part of the deal giving up the #5 for Miller isn’t a fair swap.
We should do a trade like the Jamison deal and get rid of more bad contracts.
Wiz sends:
Etan Thomas (8.5 mil)
Darius Songaila (4.5 mil)
Deshawn Stevenson (3.9 mil)
5th pick
Minnesota sends:
Mike Miller (9.8 mil)
Brian Cardinal (6.8 mil)
18th pick
Miller comes in to start and Cardinal has a large expiring deal that is easier to move than Etan’s. That looks better to me because we get to dump 9 million in 2010-11 salary. Now we have a lot of assets to make a move at the trade deadline. Our expirings would be Mike Miller (9.8 mil), Brian Cardinal, (6.8 mil), Mike James (6.5 mil) and Brendan Haywood (6.0 mil), totaling $29 million. We can make another large move or if the team is playing at a championship level, we can let the deals expire and use the money to re-up Haywood and Miller.
We also free up a roster spot with the deal to bring in the draft picks. Since Miller took Deshawn’s spot in the rotation, we should draft a big to fill the void of Etan and Songaila. Cardinal can help, but at #18 we can draft Dejuan Blair. Use the #32 for best available or maybe a guy to stash away like Calathes.
by gorebd on Jun 22, 2009 11:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Looks like
We have different contract figures, but a similar idea. I would think Foye would be more valuable than Cardinal as he can be an expiring if you don’t want to pick up the $4 Million Team option for 2010-11 and including Foye instead of Cardinal saves the Wiz more money in 09-10, and Foye is a better player. That being said, Minnesota does need to offer more than Miller and I think it would need to be Milelr + another contributing player for these three players plus maybe even Pecherov if you want to get rid of more salary.
by Ebomb on Jun 22, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Cardinal because he gives us options
His contract expiring and giving us financial help is my worst case scenario. I think a contract like his can give us the ability to make a major trade deadline move like Bosh or Amare. Also, with the Wiz regaining their old form, that pushes someone in the division out of the playoffs. I’m thinking that Miami or Atlanta will be out of the running and depending on who’s in last, Wade or Joe Johnson may become available. Whoever finishes 4th in the Southeast will be firmly cemented there and Wade or Joe Johnson probably wouldn’t re-sign this summer.
by gorebd on Jun 22, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ebomb has converted me
After thinking some more, picking up a guy like Foye would be a big upgrade over Crittendon (I like him, but I can’t turn down an upgrade). Maybe to make the numbers and value match we send Crittendon and get back Madsen. I think it would work like that because I think that Etan’s contract actually may be 7.35 going out so we can work this out because Minnesota takes back a little more salary and also has the cap room to cover Etan’s kicker. No matter how that kicker figures in, it should work since Minny is under the salary cap.
Washington sends:
Etan Thomas (7.35 mil)
Darius Songaila (4.53 mil)
Deshawn Stevenson (3.89 mil)
Javarris Crittendon (1.48 mil)
Total: $17.25 million
Minnesota sends:
Mike Miller (9.75 mil)
Randy Foye (3.58 mil)
Mark Madsen (2.84 mil)
28th pick
Total: $16.17 million
Total, the Wiz would shed almost 3.5 million off of next season’s payroll between the extra salary we send to Minny and the 2.4 million we save in dropping from #5 to #28. We don’t really need the 18th, if we have 28 and 32 we can get cheap developmental prospects. I threw out the idea of 28 over 18 because Foye, Miller and 18 seems really high for #5. Plus 28 saves us more payroll money.
Minnesota sends the 5th and 6th picks to Memphis for #2 to be used on Rubio. There lineup now is built around Rubio, Love and Jefferson. They get to keep the 18th pick to grab a wing player. Memphis avoids having to pick a player that doesn’t want to be on the team like Rubio or Thabeet. They can likely grab Jordan Hill and their choice of guard.
Our lineup would look like this, not including picks 28 and 32:
PG: Arenas/Foye/James
SG: Miller/Young
SF: Butler/McGuire
PF: Jamison/Blatche/Madsen/Pecherov
C: Haywood/McGee
We’d still be free to make a deal at the trade deadline with James and Madsen combining for 9.3 million in expirings. We can grab some good developmental guys at 28 and 32, or maybe package those 2 picks to move up around the early 20’s to grab a more talented guy like Summers, Daye, Hansborough, etc.
by gorebd on Jun 22, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
Package 28 and 32 trade up and get this guy Dejuan Blair. They you would have my full support.
by Unkle Wheez on Jun 22, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everybody
Who thinks Songaila is overpaid is not paying good enough attention. The Wizards are a lot better with Songaila on the floor, and that is well worth $4.5 million per season.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jun 22, 2009 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Overpaid
Since none of our coaches could find him a consistent roll. A bargain if Flip can find him a roll.
by Unkle Wheez on Jun 22, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even Without a Consistent Role
Songaila made the Wizards better when he played. 5.5 points per 100 possessions better raw. Adjusted +/- ranks his contributions the 3rd best on the team the past two seasons, ahead of Caron Butler! All for less than the MLE. I don’t consider that overpaid from any good perspective.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jun 22, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
My point is find him a way to play on a consistent basis, or you are wasting his and our time.
by Unkle Wheez on Jun 22, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, I Agree
But I think that had more to do with Haywood’s injury forcing Songaila to play out of position at center. I think he does play consistently when he plays PF. And I do think that Flip will utilize his ability to hit mid-range jumpers, since Flip’s offense tends to favor jump shots.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jun 22, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Songaila, but his contract doesn't match his value
But our frontcourt is getting pretty crowded. Jamison, Haywood, McGee, Blatche. Songaila might be the 5th man in the rotation. Also, at #18 we might be looking at another big man. All the wings are going early in the draft and none of them would get time in our wing rotation of Miller, Butler, Young, and McGuire. We most likely spend that pick on a big to develop in addition to our other developing big of Pecherov. Where does Songaila fit? What sense does is make to pay a guy more than $9 mil over the next two years to be the 5th-8th man in our frontcourt rotation?
by gorebd on Jun 22, 2009 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed About Overcrowding
But weigh the man’s contributions before you delegate him behind the pack. See my stats above. Jamison and Haywood should remain the starters, no argument there. IMO, Songaila should split the majority of the backup minutes with Blatche. McGee should get less than 10 MPG until he proves that he is not a massive liability on defense, which is fine considering his age. $9 million over two seasons is not a lot to pay for a really good bench player. Songaila’s value is about what I would pay the MLE for. We got him for $2 million per season less.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jun 22, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the time it was the full MLE
IIRC.
I think Songaila’s worth keeping, though I wouldn’t be opposed to moving him to clear some salary away.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 22, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Right Offer Came Along
Then sure, yeah. I just wouldn’t give the guy up for peanuts, with the assumption that simply getting rid of him would be like dumping a bad contract. If Songaila leaves, I would insist we get value coming back.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jun 22, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure what value you can get for an eighth man making MLE money
It’s probably best to keep him in that case.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 22, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depending on the Potential Trade Partner
I could see Songaila as a viable sixth man. Daryl Morey and Mark Cuban are both big fans of APM, so they might give somebody up to get him, since he has good APM. Otherwise, I agree. Just keep him.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jun 22, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His value is just completely out of whack
He probably is as valuable to the Wiz than anyone else in the league and we would never be able to get fair exchange. Maybe the Minny trade could be even simpler than suggested.
Wiz sends:
Etan (7.35 mil)
Deshawn (3.89 mil)
Pech (1.55 mil)
5th pick
Total: $12.79 million
Minny sends:
Miller (9.75 mil)
Foye (3.58 mil)
28th pick
Total: 13.33 million
Wiz Lineup
PG: Arenas/Foye/James/Crittendon
SG: Miller/Young
SF: Butler/McGuire
PF: Jamison/Blatche/Songaila
C: Haywood/McGee
Plus 28 and 32. Still enough ammo for a trade deadline deal during the playoff push.
by gorebd on Jun 22, 2009 3:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
On a roster nearing capacity
28 and 32 would allow you stash a few Euro’s away and hope they blossom and can be brought over in time.
I guess the real question in a trade like this would be what else is on the table. Perosnally Foye has been a dissapointment at Minnesota due to the expectation that he would become a top tier starting Point and that never happened. Pressure mounted when Roy became a star. I think most Wolves fans would agree that he is perfect as a instant offense, 3 point shooter, facilitator off the bench. As a 6th man in a Bobby Jackson type roll, he offers a lot of value and a lot of positives for the team. I think Foye would play well during the year and you’d pick up his option at $4.5 Million for 10-11, with a year of Miller as the starter, and this team is much more improved that drafting a raw, most likely inefficient rookie, and giving him the playing time you need to develop them.
by Ebomb on Jun 22, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would we take 28 instead of 18?
I’m confused.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 22, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they want to give up 18, that's fine
I just figured that the T-Wolves might give pushback if Foye is part of the deal.
by gorebd on Jun 22, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
T'Wolves fan....
So I’m a regular at the T’Wolves blog and we’ve been discussing really similar scenarios trying to get the #5 pick. This was the trade I thought was most fair for the value of #5:
Miller + Foye ($13.45 Mil salary) + #18
for
Thomas + James + Pecherov ($15.36 Mil salary) + #5
Foye is a young guy with a modest contract. He has had some struggles here but if were to play in the 6th man role (which he is best suited for), he could bring the bench scoring you guys need from the 2nd unit. Miller gives them a veteran player who’s a legit 3 point threat (40% shooter) to play opposite Gilbert’s driving. The best part about Miller is that he works within the offense and distributes the ball effectively and he doesn’t need 15 shots to make a difference. He had an off year but if he played next to Arenas, Butler, and Jamison he could easily average 12 pts, 6 reb, 5 ast per game. I’ve read that shedding salary isn’t a primary concern but it would help sweeten the deal by saving $3.4 Mil (after rookie salaries are figured in) which would equate to $6.8 Mil total savings (b/c of luxury tax).
Let me know what you guys think.
by jballer_13 on Jun 22, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's being thrown around
Not bad from our standpoint, but personally it would not be my first choice for using so many of our “assets”. To me Heinrich is a better fit. Prince was discussed in the past, although not much recently.
If Miller was our target, I’d think that trade looks decent for both sides.
If Rubio does indeed fall to 5 I would prefer him to Miller/Foye.
by MR on Jun 22, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other rumors
We’ve heard that there are plenty of offers coming for #5 but haven’t heard any other teams or players being linked to the pick as strongly as Miller. I personally think the pick will not be traded and the best player available will be taken but so far this is one of best “realistic” trades I’ve heard of for #5. What other possibilities have been discussed?
by jballer_13 on Jun 22, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, too many assets
I don’t like including 14 million in expiring deals unless we’re talking about a stud.
by gorebd on Jun 22, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Expiring contracts
I think the draft is too shallow to get #5 + $14 mil in expiring to get a stud right now. There is potential to use the expiring contracts at the trade deadline since teams will be looking to shed payroll but Miller is expiring and Foye is essentially expiring since he only has a qualifying offer after this year. So it is basically an exchange of expiring contracts, Was gets two rotational players and unloads three bench players, Min gets the #5. To be honest I think Miller and Foye would have a better chance to get a stud at the deadline since Miller is a solid contributor and Foye still has upside.
by jballer_13 on Jun 22, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the #5 can get us a stud
I see what you’re saying, but in a sense you proved my point. We’d be sending $14 million in expiring salary and #5 for $13.5 million in expiring salary and the #18. I know they have better value as players, but my point was that any deal including that much in expiring deals should be to make a major move. Minny moves up 13 spots and adds 500k in expiring deals? That doesn’t work. We can send one contract, not both. Swap James for Stevenson and its a good deal. Plus Stevenson can be a servicable player at the 2.
by gorebd on Jun 22, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been pretty vocal in saying that I don't think Foye fits anywhere here
Too good to play 20 minutes, not a good enough fit to play 35. Miller’s a good fit for the right price, though.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jun 22, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If his heart's in the right place
then he may not mind giving up minutes to go from a terrible team in a small market to a possible contender in a large one.
by MR on Jun 22, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
