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Point Guard Driven League? Maybe, Maybe Not

One of the common arguments I've heard from people who advocate taking Ricky Rubio is that the NBA is becoming more and more of a point guard driven league so it makes sense to get the best floor general available.

Certainly the level of talent at point guard has risen in recent years thanks to influx of talented players at the 1 spot like Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Derrick Rose.  That. combined with the slow extinction of the traditional big man has people clamoring that it's time to start building around the point guard rather than the big man.  It's a nice idea, but as you take a look at the champions over the last decade, the argument loses a little steam.

Champion Starting PG Best Big Man
1999 Spurs Avery Johnson Tim Duncan
2000 Lakers Ron Harper Shaquile O'Neal
2001 Lakers Derek Fisher Shaquile O'Neal
2002 Lakers Derek Fisher Shaquile O'Neal
2003 Spurs Tony Parker Tim Duncan
2004 Pistons Chauncey Billups Ben Wallace
2005 Spurs Tony Parker Tim Duncan
2006 Heat Jason Williams Shaquile O'Neal
2007 Spurs Tony Parker Tim Duncan
2008 Celtics Rajon Rondo Kevin Garnett

The point guards on that list certainly aren't terrible, but Tony Parker is the only PG on that list who made it to the All-Star Game in the same year that he also won the championship, and that was only in the 2007 season.  On the other hand, every big man on that list played in the All-Star Game with the exception of Duncan in '99, since there was no game because of the lockout.  Furthermore, the top 3 big men of the decade (Shaq, Duncan, and Garnett) all have titles to their name, whereas the only one of the three best point guards of the decade (Kidd, Nash, and Billups) has won a championship.

Recent history shows strong support for putting more importance on an elite big man rather than top point guard, but this year may start to turn those tides a little bit.  More likely than not, this year's champion is either going to be the Cavaliers or the Lakers.  If that's the case, the best big man on those two teams are Zydrunas Ilgauskas or Pau Gasol.  Both solid big men but neither is on the same level as Shaq, Duncan, or Garnett.  Then again, just because it doesn't look like an elite big man will walk away with a title this year doesn't mean that the elite point guards are starting to make the NBA a point guard driven league since the most likely candidates to win a title this year are Mo Williams and Derek Fisher.  Again, both are nice players, but neither would be mistaken for an elite point guard.

This isn't to say that anyone should pass on Rubio because there's not a great track record of elite point guards winning titles over the last decade.  Rubio is still a rare talent that teams would be foolish to pass on just so they can gamble on someone like Hasheem Thabeet or Jordan Hill.  However, we should also be cautious not to crown him as the latest revolutionary in a revolution that hasn't even begun yet.

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I see your argument Jake

And I agree 100%. If there’s an All-NBA big man available, it’s the best way to build a championship team. I’ll throw Yao Ming and Dwight Howard into that mix (with Shaq, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett), even though they have not won a Championship yet. One way to build a foundation for a Championship club is to acquire a defensive minded big man…… a shot blocker… and a low post scoring threat. A guy that consistently produces 20-10 with intimidating defense.

HOWEVER, I still believe a team can win with a superior Point Guard, and just a good defensive big man (ie: Chris Paul / Tyson Chandler)… Harder to do, but still possible.

The two hardest positions to fill with elite talent in the NBA are PG and Center. (Yeah, Yeah, I know….. Tim Duncan and Garnett are listed as PF – but they play the role of defensive stopper, shot blocker and low post scoring threat that a traditional Center provides).

So, if the decision comes down to drafting Ricky Rubio vs. Blake Griffin; an argument could be made to draft Rubio with #1. Griffin is not an elite Center. (he will measure out shorter than 6’9" in the draft measurements). He’s not a defensive stopper or a shot blocker. Griffin has been compared to a more athletic Carlos Boozer, or a more offensive David Lee. Not the kind of player that can be the anchor of a Championship team defense for the next 10 years.

Rubio on the other hand has been compared to a taller Chris Paul (that’s scary), or a better defending Steve Nash. He’s also been compared to a once-in-a-lifetime player – - – Pete Maravich.

Team Rubio with outside shooters that can knock down open shots (Arenas, Stevenson, Butler) , and a defensive minded big man (Brendan Haywood / JaVale McGee). Throw in some inside (Jamison, McGee) and mid-range (Butler, McGuire) scoring …. some athletic guys on the break (Young, Arenas, McGee, McGuire, Butler); some pick-and-roll and pick-and-pop players (Songaila, Jamison, Haywood) – and I think that team could be interesting.

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by Rook6980 on May 8, 2009 11:31 AM EDT reply actions  

Rubio & Arenas

That would be a scary backcourt. Seriously, I would be terrified.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 8, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is a good post

I agree that it is not a point guard driven league. It is a talent driven league, and the taller that talent, the better. A couple of semi-rebuttals:

1. Your list is dominated by two of the best big men ever — Shaq and Duncan. In the two years when those two didn’t win, a very good point guard played a role (Billups and Rondo).
2. In the 10 years prior to your list, the best player ever won 6 titles, Hakeem won two, and Isiah won two without a super strong frontline.
3. Contrary to Rook’s point, I think Jake’s post would support choosing Griffin over Rubio. The taller the talent the better.
4. If the #2 pick can be moved for a dominant big man, do it. (You’re not going to get Yao or Howard, so take a chance on Oden? Not sure I would do that given his health issues, but that’s the level of option you should consider.) If not, use the pick to take the best talent available in Rubio.

by disgrunted on May 8, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Actually
If that’s the case, the best big man on those two teams are Zydrunas Ilgauskas or Pau Gasol. Both solid big men but neither is on the same level as Shaq, Duncan, or Garnett.

I would agree with you, except I’ve heard several talking heads mention Pau for First Team NBA this year. Even lookinng to last year, it was only after the Lakers acquired Gasol that they became a true title contender. Really, only the Cavs would be an anomaly in terms of the theory driving this post (and I think we all know why).

Getting buckets since 2003.

by Icantfeelmyface on May 8, 2009 12:45 PM EDT reply actions  

For his faults

He had Memphis in the playoffs. I think people trash him because he’s soft. Dude has a lot of talent and puts up the numbers to prove it.

by Jheiser3 on May 8, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I actually can't think a better power forward this year

Maybe Dirk? Timmy’s good, obviously, but I think that Pau might have actually had better stats this year, and he was obviously more durable.

by pantslessyoda1 on May 9, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

This sort of analysis also supports why the Wizards were able to hold on in 07-08 without Gilbert, but fell apart without Haywood in 08-09.

by disgrunted on May 8, 2009 1:05 PM EDT reply actions  

I think it's more that they relied too heavily on Haywood defensively

Whereas there are other scorers who could pick up for Arenas offensively, there is literally nobody that can pick up for Haywood defensively.

Not to mention Gilbert was also out.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on May 8, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could it be said

that it’s a guard driven league? Aside from ‘99, when there were two great big men on the same team, there’s either been a great point guard or two-guard, sometimes both.

I see where you’re going with this, but you’re doing a disservice to Kobe and DWade without any mention of them..

Blogging at RidiculousUpside, where we converse with recently fired mascots.

by Scott Schroeder on May 8, 2009 2:33 PM EDT reply actions  

same

i was thinking the same thing. Harper/Fisher were technically the PGs but in the triangle offense there isn’t a difference in the guard spots.

Rules were changed too which is why Rajon Rondo can slug a guy in the face but the opposing defense isn’t allowed to put their palm on his hip. When was that change made?

by Jheiser3 on May 8, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's fair

With the exception of the Bulls dynasty and the ‘99 Spurs, it’s very hard to find a team that didn’t have both a super guard and dominant big man (Rodman was dominant in ways, but not like the other big men that have won titles over the last two decades). I just think it’s interesting that we haven’t seen a truly elite point guard win a title since the days of Magic and Isiah. Although MJ, Kobe, and Wade all had times where they ran the point.

Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.

by Jake Whitacre on May 9, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Truth

It’s interesting. The Bulls also used Pippen as a point-forward, so you could argue that.
Maybe the current ‘elite’ point guards aren’t as elite as we think?

Blogging at RidiculousUpside, where we converse with recently fired mascots.

by Scott Schroeder on May 9, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting take

but many of the hand-check rules (that benefit the guards) didn’t take place until sometime after 2003. I think people claiming this transition to being a “PGDL” are referring more to the ability to score from that position, nand less to saying that good PG = championship.

by Pryme on May 8, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Well said Jake

I’ve driven a huge part of the Rubio debate on StR over Griffin, but thats largely because I believe Rubio has greater upside to realize than Griffin does. Griffin has flaws in his game, but I would be very surprised that Griffin isn’t pretty much the same player he is now 5 years down the road.

That being said, that doesn’t mean the league is about dominant PG’s. It’s usually about dominant teams with a dominant game changing player.

The difference between Chris Paul and Tim Duncan? The level of surrounding talent them, and the franchise commitment/savvy.

I don’t think the league is a PG dominated league. Rondo puts up great #‘s, but he plays with veterans who perfectly augment his weaknesses. Rondo is a serious talent, but again, his #’s make him look hall of fame caliber. He is not at that level of player quite yet.

Last point. This is a PG heavy draft, and really a G oriented draft. Quite a few teams need PG’s, and G’s. Even though Blake Griffin is considered a top flight big, I still don’t believe he is a franchise player. Of all the bigs that have come into the NBA, which have been consistently franchise players? Yao? Amare? Dwight? Howard is the closest of those 3 IMO, and even then, Houston fans squawk about Yao being left out. Also, Shaq didn’t win 3 titles by his lonesome, and the Pistons ring probably had something to do with the end of the Lakers “Shaq-Kobe” dynasty.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 8, 2009 10:44 PM EDT reply actions  

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