Because the Wizards ran an up-tempo offense during Jordan's tenure, he is known as an offensive-minded coach, but a source close to him indicated that the fast pace matched the team's personnel and that Jordan was as adept on the defensive side of the ball.
over 2 years ago
Mike Prada
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But down the knives, guys
Sure his teams were not known for defending the post, preventing the 3, and slowing down fast breaks. Doesn’t mean that deep down he didn’t want to.
In his defense, we all know he and EG didn’t always see eye-to-eye, and this League has it’s share of stories about GMs who’ve subtly sabotaged coaches in order to make them look bad.
stories about GMs who’ve subtly sabotaged coaches
Ernie “The Godfather” Grunfeld:
Arenas: “I think I can play by December”
EG: “I’m not sure I like that idea”
Arenas: “Huh?, You don’t WANT me to play?”
EG: “Let me make you an offer you can’t refuse”
EG: “Paisan”
Haywood: "Huh?…. Oh, Greetings, Don Vito Grunfeld.
EG: “Hello, my boy. You got a torn ligament in your wrist”
Haywood: “Nah… I’m feeling good. Ready to play”
EG: “No, no, no…. Listen to what I’m tellin you. You got a problem with your wrist.”
Haywood: “um…. Yes, Godfather”
EG: “You think it’s a sprain… but you go to my doctor… he gonna tell you it’s a torn ligament.”
Haywood: “but why?”
EG: “We’re practically paisan, do me this favor. I won’t forget it.”
D-Steve: “You wanted to see me, Godfather?”
EG: “Yes, yes… sit down my friend; You are my friend…………right?”
D-Steve: “Oh, Yes, Godfather; I am most definately your friend.”
EG: “Good, good. As a friend, I need a favor”
D-Steve: “Anything Don Vito Grunfeld, anything.”
EG: “I need you to take off this year with a bad back”
D-Steve: “The whole year?”
EG: “Yes, the whole year”
D-Steve: “Can I just fake an injury for a while and continue to play?”
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Eddie wasn't perfect, but I don't blame him for the team's poor defense.
Can anyone point out an elite defensive team that doesn’t have elite defensive players? Who is this team’s defensive leader? Gilbert bears more responsibility for the team’s soft defense than Eddie.
by antawnjameson on May 30, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Orlando sans Dwight Howard
Cleveland
Lakers
Denver
New Orleans
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Okay, scratch New Orleans
But definitely Cleveland, the Lakers and Denver. Who on Cleveland is legitimately a great defensive player?
Plus, Orlando starts Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu at the forward spots.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Im pretty sure
that LeBron (yuck), Kobe Bryant, and Chauncey Billups are all great defensive players.
Not particularly
LeBron openly admits he didn’t take defense seriously until this year, and even now, he’s not guarding the opposing teams’ best player. Neither is Kobe. If Kobe was so great, why didn’t he switch onto Aaron Brooks and shut him down in the Houston series? Ditto for LeBron and Hedo in this series. And Chauncey is hardly a lockdown guy either.
It’s all about scheme these days, now that you can play zone. As long as you have one defensive anchor, the other four players don’t really matter. That’s how Orlando can be the best defensive team in the league despite starting Rafer Alston, Hedo Turkoglu and Rashard Lewis. Orlando’s perimeter defenders just have to funnel their guy into Dwight Howard, and he takes care of the rest. As long as your coach grooms you on quick rotations, it works well. Similarly, Cleveland was a top-five defensive team even before this year. This year, they’re starting Mo Williams, who was GIlbert-esque on defense with the Bucks, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas, who is way too slow to guard pick and roll. They compensate with sound scheming with all five guys forcing the ball into designated areas. That’s coaching, not effort.
The biggest problem in the Eddie Jordan era is that there was no accountability or smart principles. The scheme was “Protect the Paint,” which never worked. Teams just worked the ball to the right open shooters and let fly. They took advantage of the constant over-helping on the weak side, quickly rotating the ball to the open shooter. If you are a player, why would you listen to a coach killing you for your defensive effort when his scheme was an abject failure? Again, no accountability. Eddie compounded the problem by always going small, favoring offense over defense with his substitutions. If he really wanted to get more out of the team defensively, he’d have played better defensive players. Brendan Haywood, specifically.
That’s the difference between Eddie Jordan and the top defensive coaches in the league. Their scheme is clear and effective, able to integrate players seamlessly. Defensive talent doesn’t have everything to do with it.
(Besides, this team has some defensive talent — Haywood, McGuire, Crittenton, etc).
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on May 30, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ok
I agree with everything you said about the defensive scheme and how coaches hold and dont hold players accountable on defense.
But about Kobe and Lebron, Kobe’s job on defense inside of Phil Jackson’s scheme until the 4th quarter of close games is to guard the weakest wing player and just direct others and help out. In those 4th quarters of close games Kobe then switches on to the best wing player. It’s obvious that they are trying to save his energy and keep him out of foul trouble until the 4th quarter. Its not that Kobe cant guard the best players its just that its unnessescary at some points in the game. Now I havent observed the same things about Lebron at least not in the Magic series but it might just be because of the bad matchups and other things.
Plus there has to be a reason why they are on the All-Defensive team.
Plus there has to be a reason why they are on the All-Defensive team.
The all-defensive teams are always a joke. You cannot tell me that Kobe, LeBron and Chris Paul are better defenders than Shane Battier, Rajon Rondo and Andre Iguodala. J.R. Smith got two votes somehow. I really don’t think coaches pay enough attention to other teams to accurately judge, to be honest.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I'd have to agree
J.R. Smith getting two votes is just ridiculous. They might as well have voted for Antawn Jamison.
The all-defensive teams are always a joke.
I could not agree more.
by MR on May 30, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
LeBron is . . .
Because he can get away with fouling people on defense almost at well. That will make anyone a terrific defensive player.
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on May 31, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Great point.
It’s obvious that they are trying to save his energy and keep him out of foul trouble until the 4th quarter. Its not that Kobe cant guard the best players its just that its unnecessary at some points in the game.
Conversely, most defensive specialists (Battier) generally aren’t consistent scoring machines because their energy is directed primarily at defending. But Kobe and LeBron are excellent defenders when necessary. That’s why LeBron is guarding Turkoglu tonight and at the half, Turk has what? 3 points?
"The character of a person is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence." -Vince Lombardi.
But that's kind of the problem, isn't it
Orlando doesn’t put Dwight Howard on the worst defender and tell him to stay out of foul trouble. The Bulls didn’t do that with Jordan.
I get the point, but it seems really odd to me to call someone a great defender, yet hide them on someone who won’t do much, no matter the reasoning. If they were such a great defender, they would be smart enough to avoid the foul trouble and have the necessary energy anyway.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
That is the problem
I’ve been noticing that pattern in the NBA over the past few years. Centers are the exception because they protect the paint, but these days it seems like the other positions that carry the team offensively generally either don’t play defense or aren’t really expected to play the opposing team’s best scorers.
And you’re right about Jordan, he was wide open on both ends.
"The character of a person is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence." -Vince Lombardi.
Whoever he’s guarding, I say just watch him. James gets back well on the break, but otherwise doesn’t impress me on D. Kobe is a good defender. Elite? Maybe yes maybe no.
Well, LeBron was top 10 in avg. steals per game. He was in the top 40 in blocks per game, and top 25 in def. rebounds per game (I know this because I had him on my fantasy team). I know James is Public Enemy #1, but he is a good defender.
"The character of a person is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence." -Vince Lombardi.
For a guy playing as many minutes as he does, those stats don’t impress me that much. Not bad. But not elite status either.
His defense has definitely picked up this year
I think that’s pretty clear. Cleveland was almost nine points better defensively with him on the court than with him off it.
But I also think it’s wrong to call him a lockdown defender, which I believe is your point, and I agree. That kind of speaks to my earlier point; that there aren’t too many lockdown defenders anymore and it’s all about scheme.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I’m not a huge believer that stats always tell the whole story, especially on defense. But for anyone that is, go look up Battier’s defensive stats. I’m going to guess they are unspectacular and he is an excellent defender. Or Prince.
Yes, Prada is right. I don’t think James is a poor defender, but all-NBA? Not in my book. It seems like he spends most of his defensive energy on the fast-break chase-down trying to make a “wow” block.
Bron Bron
I know James is Public Enemy #1, but he is a good defender.
But is he an “elite” NBA All-Defense 1st team defender?
Is he a “lock-down” type defender?
As Prada said – is he a better defender on the wing than Ron Artest? Shane Battier?
No, No and NO
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
But is he an "elite" NBA All-Defense 1st team defender?
What is “elite”?
Is he a top 10 defender? No.
Is he a top 50 defender? Yes.
Is he a "lock-down" type defender?
There is no such thing in the NBA. I can name 25+ players in the NBA that no one can ever stop (including LeBron).
is he a better defender on the wing than Ron Artest? Shane Battier?
No & no. But how did those “elite” defenders do defending against Kobe?
"The character of a person is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence." -Vince Lombardi.
THAT was my point.
LeBron is NOT an elite – top 5 (NBA All-Defensive Team 1st team) or even top 10 (2nd Team All-Defensive)…
You’re calling him a top-50 defender…. but the NBA named him to the All-Defensive team- – - OVER players like Battier and Artest.
Yes – this year, Lebron was a “good” defender…. but not worthy of the designation All-Defensive 1st Team…. which he was “given”, just because he’s LeBron.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
What do you expect?
He’s the NBA’s poster boy.
"The character of a person is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence." -Vince Lombardi.
Yes, Yes, Yes!!
Thank you Prada! Rec’d. I couldn’t possible agree with you more. I have believed for several seasons now that Eddie Jordan was a very poor defensive coach, and that coaching was primarily responsible for this team’s defensive woes. I understand that some players are better than others at defense, and I admit that having good defensive players help, but I 100% agree with you that the scheme is what makes a good NBA defense these days. There were times in the Cleveland/Orlando series where Orlando rotated and switched so much on defense that Dwight Howard wound up guarding LeBron on the perimeter. Obviously that situation did not turn out well, but overall Orlando’s scheme is what made it so tough on Cleveland to get going offensively, not any particular Magic player’s individual defense.
Eddie never implemented a scheme that worked. Reportedly, he didn’t care that much about it, since he spent most practice time going over the Princeton rather than reinforcing the defense. He got away with it for so long because his offense was really good, but it is revisionist history to say now that he would have had a better defensive scheme if only his personnel were capable of it. I would argue that any NBA team is capable of at least passable defense, if only the right coach were in place to install a good enough scheme. I had high hopes that Randy Ayers would be that coach, but I really didn’t see much difference between the defense under him and when it was just Eddie Jordan or whoever was the defensive coach at the time.
Flip probably won’t have the Wizards looking like the Detroit Pistons circa 2004 anytime soon. But if he can just make them look like the Detroit Pistons circa 2009 (16th in the league in defensive rating), it would be a huge improvement.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Anybody but L.A.
"The character of a person is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence." -Vince Lombardi.
Well
that game was anticlimactic. Now for a boring NBA Finals…
"The character of a person is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence." -Vince Lombardi.
Lakers in 6.
But I really hope I’m wrong. And I hope every game is as tight as the Celtics-Magic series. That was the best playoff series this year, IMO.
"The character of a person is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence." -Vince Lombardi.
Agreed
The Boston/Chicago first round series will probably go down as the greatest playoff series in NBA history.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
NBA history?!?
How about…. greatest playoff series in this decade.
"Sure it’d be great to be playing with 10 good fingers, but 8 will do just fine." – Jon Jansen
I'm Assuming
That you have a series in mind that is better? I would like to hear about it. I honestly can’t think of any.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Not in particular.
But with all of the great rivalries and countless playoff series throughout NBA history (Jordan vs. the league, Reggie Miller vs. the Knicks, Bird vs. Magic, Willis Reed vs. Wes Unseld, Wilt vs. Russell, etc.), I think it might be a little presumptuous to say that this year we saw “the greatest playoff series in NBA history.”
"Sure it’d be great to be playing with 10 good fingers, but 8 will do just fine." – Jon Jansen
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