Hollinger breaks down the top 5, including trades

"Suffice to say that I'd be stunned if Washington actually uses the pick."

8 months ago Jheiser3 28 comments 0 recs |

Comments

oof

I’d be happy with a trade, for sure. But Hollinger’s proposal (swap with someone in the mid-20’s, unloading Etan’s contract along the way) is mind-numbingly bad. Yeah, because what we really want is to treat a big expiring contract like a burden, rather than an asset. Brilliant.

by sierradave on May 20, 2009 7:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think he's still convinced we're going to do everything possible to go under the tax

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on May 20, 2009 7:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think some of the league’s owners would take Hollinger’s approach — use the #5 pick as a means just to avoid paying the luxury tax for one year (Phoenix comes to mind), but I don’t think that is Abe Pollin’s mindset. First, I think he’s willing to pay the price to field a strong team, and second, I hope he would understand what a slap in the face/kick in the groin that would be to the loyal fans who just endured a horrible season.

by disgrunted on May 20, 2009 7:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

assuming abe will pay the tax -

and assuming wiz try to trade the pick – what do they try and get? i’m not saying specific players (not going to mess with trade machines and salary matches etc) but more like what position/role do you guys think ernie will look for trade-wise? a 2 guard? defense/rebounder? point guard? i ask because when i really think about, i’m not sure i have a real feel for this. and it will have a huge impact on the near-term future of this team.

"a crab dribble is when you travel" - caron butler

by little stevie colter on May 20, 2009 8:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Two real needs I see

Are a banger in the low post and an upgrade at shooting guard. Gil is our point guard, and I don’t think they’re going to jump down the rabbit hole of trying to move him. Brendan and JaVale are our bigs. Caron will continue to play close to 40 minutes/game at the 3, with Taser proving he can be the backup. So that leaves Antawn as our all-star who nonetheless isn’t a classic PF. Blockbuster trade would involve him and the pick. Less-blockbuster would include Andray, the pick, and maybe one or two other pieces/contracts.

That’s my read right now at least, I’ll be interested to get Prada and company’s take on it all.

by sierradave on May 20, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A quick defensive PG would be nice too...

Although I like JaVaris Crittenton’s defense…. I think a uber-quick pure Point Guard that can play defense would be something the Wizards need.

A change of pace guy (like Dee Brown) – but someone that can really stay in front of the other quick PG’s in the League (Parker, Brooks, etc…)

Darren Collison is a guy I’ve been looking at – and he may go in the late 1st or early 2nd round.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on May 20, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have no problem with Hollinger's idea

It might not be too popular here, but it makes sense. Also, if we could somehow trade our pick for Jason Thompson (is this feasible?), I’d be in heaven, since he’s the type of aggressive rebounder and shotblocker we need as our backup power forward/power forward of the future who could contribute enough now for us to be competitive in the East and enough in the future to help us avoid being horrible once Gil starts to age and Antawn’s retired.

by pantslessyoda1 on May 20, 2009 9:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Trade scenario

Wizards trade:
Etan Thomas ($6.8M expiring) + Andray Blatche ($2.7M) + # 5 pick in the 2009 Draft

for

Kirk Hinrich ($10M)+ #26 pick in the 2009 Draft

Noah is a natural PF, and Miller is a Center that plays outside. Chicago needs more big bodies inside… (Thomas & Blatche) … Plus they’re probably going to lose Ben Gordon to Free Agency – and Hinrich does not play well with Rose. With the #5 pick, the Bulls can choose a big Shooting Guard (Harden or DeRozan); and then with their 16th pick, they can pick up a project Center (B.J. Mullens )

Wizards get a SG that can hit the 3-point shot… good defense…. good ball handler… and another guy that can pass the ball and initiate the offense. Hinrich makes the Wizards much better – still probably not good enough to win it all, but closer.

With the 26th pick, the Wizards take Darren Collison, PG from UCLA as a backup Point Guard. Lock down defender. Fastest player end-to-end in the draft. Good on the pick-and-roll. Can play up and down game, or half court. Low turnovers.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on May 20, 2009 10:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd love to see it happen

But isn’t Chicago more interested in trying to start winning now rather than getting younger and deeper? I’d think that this deal would be a lot easier for us to pull off if the Bulls had lost in five to the Celtics.

by pantslessyoda1 on May 20, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No way in hell I give up both Blatche and #5 for Kirk

Maybe #5 and Pech, or even #5 and Javaris, but not Blatche.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on May 20, 2009 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Without Blatche

There’s very little incentive for Chicago… The #5 pick, Chicago MIGHT get lucky and be able to get Jordan Hill…

Even though they gave the Celtics a hard time in the Playoffs this year – it showed that they need to get bigger. Noah played admirably, but he was physically over-matched. I believe that Chicago is building for the future. They are apparently going to allow Ben Gordon to leave…and they’re going to need a young SG to be his running mate for years to come….

Thomas + Nick Young + #5 pick for Kirk Hinrich + 26th pick works just as well, but I’m not sure the Bulls would want Young… I think they’d rather have a young big, with an inexpensive contract. (Blatche)

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on May 20, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the #5 pick is plenty of incentive for the Bulls

You also stated another reason why they could do a deal for #5: they are going to make a run for the future (AKA make a run at Wade or Bosh in 2010). They are going to need to shed Hinrich’s salary to be able to sign one of those guys.

I think we could steal Hinrich for the #5. Something like #5, Mike James’ expiring contract, and Pech for Hinrich and Chicago’s #16. Chicago then has their pick between James Harden or Demar Derozan to be their young SG to replace Gordon and build around. I’m extremely reluctant to give up Nick Young in any trade at this point, mostly because of his flashes of brilliance paired with our history of trading away young prospects who turn into all stars.

Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!

by Evander holyfield on May 20, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like that trade as well....

But Chicago is sitting at #8

They could just wait and hope Harden or DeRozan is still there at #8 – - – not sure #5 is incentive enough….

Besides, there are some other Shooting Guards (and combo-Guards) available later in the draft (Chase Budinger , Austin Daye, Marcus Thornton, etc…)

If Chicago wants to get bigger, they might want the #5 to go after Jordan Hill (if he’s still there at 5)… but Hill is a project, reportedly not ready to produce right away. Hence the reason I included Blatche & Thomas (expiring) in my trade, to provide a bridge to when Hill would be ready to produce.

Chicago gets Hill for the future, but has Blatche and Thomas for immediate use. Thomas’ expiring contract helps for 2010; and they can use their #16 to draft a SG…

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on May 20, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chicago has picks 16 and 26

I don’t see those picks netting them the (possible) impact SG they are looking for. Next season, as their roster stands now, they would have Rose and Salmons in the backcourt, with Hinrich the odd man out. Salmons is serviceable now, but won’t be nearly as good when they plan on competing for a championship in 3 years. I believe Hinrich’s out because they will be looking to trade him eventually for 2010… the question is what value are they expecting to get for him? After his showing in the playoffs, he’s most valuable right now, so still selling high, I don’t think the Bulls could get better than a #5 pick AND an expiring contract. With 5, they could choose between any of the top guards in the draft who would be able to develop with Rose.

Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!

by Evander holyfield on May 21, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Problem is

I’d love to give the Bulls the #5 and an expiring contract, except Hinrich’s salary is $10 Million….

The Wizards have two expiring contracts: Thomas ($6.8M) and James ($6.4M)….

In order to make a trade work for Hinrich, you have to make the salaries match… hence the reason I threw in Blatche…

The trade works with Thomas ($6.8M) + Pecherov ($1.7M) + #5 pick for Hinrich ($10M) + # 26 – - –
That has the luxury of opening up a roster spot so the Wizards can keep both the #26 pick and the #32 pick – - –
but then the Wizards would taking on $1.5 Million more in salary for Hinrich in addition to the roughly $2 Million needed for the draft picks ; with all the Luxury Tax implications….

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on May 21, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, I Can't Get Past This

Miller is a Center that plays outside. Chicago needs more big bodies inside… (Thomas & Blatche)

Blatche is a big body who plays inside?

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on May 21, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thomas is a big body that plays inside

Blatche is just a big body

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on May 21, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Surprised I had to point that out....

{grin}

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on May 21, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Differentiate Between Big and Tall

I think the reason Blatche doesn’t play inside is because he doesn’t have the bulk and strength to mix it up in the paint. That and he thinks he’s Magic Johnson.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on May 21, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Blatche is no longer a twig

6’11" 250 lbs…

Not that I’d call him strong, or even say that he can “mix it up in the paint”…. I would categorize him as “big” body… he’s definitely no Yi Jianlian (7’0", 230)

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on May 21, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

I stand corrected. He sure doesn’t look like he’s carrying that much weight. I wonder why he doesn’t learn to use his weight more effectively and live in the paint, if he does have that much girth now.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on May 21, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably because very little of his 250-pound frame is muscle

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on May 21, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ding ding ding ding

Give that man a cigar

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on May 21, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I feel like a lot of us overrate Blatche on here

We see the talent, the physical tools and the very friendly contract. But will this guy ever get it? I am starting to doubt it. I love this deal because I agree with rook’s assesment of Hinrich, he is an a junkyard dog in the back court. This is a good use of Thomas’s expiring deal and leaves us with Mike James expiring to use in a deal at the deadline. Daren Collison sounds good to me at 26 (Tyler Hansborough would be good too).

"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on May 21, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I put this in the wrong place, I apologize

I mean to put this as a reply to rook’s trade idea for Hinrich.

"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on May 21, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the Wizards coud get EITHER Hinrich or Gordon....

They should… These guys, as Dickie says, are prime-time players, For example, who should give a flying patootie if Gordon can’t play defense? With Flip as the coach, Gil at the point and Gordon at the two guard, this team averages about 104-107 a game even playing mostly out of half-court sets. With Hinrich you a get a bit more defense and 15 ppg instead of 19-21.

But you still have to add a banger in the front court…

You have to consider also that the SE Division is becoming a very tough group of teams. The Wizards went 1-15 against Orlando, Miami, Charlotte and Atlanta last year. EG has to field a team that counters their strengths. Two of these teams (Miaimi and Atlanta) have very good 2-guards. Two of them are very good across the front line … Orlando with Howard, Lewis and the Turk is absolutely nasty as the Cavaliers are finding out, and Atlanta with a healthy Williams, Horford and Smth is very, very athletic and dang ZaZa ate our lunch last year. Charlotte is on the edge of becoming dangerous (I keep wondering if Iverson will wind up there… giving them ominous backcourt depth with Felton, Augstin and Raja Bell). If the rumors of Andre Miller going to Miami are true, the backcourt combination of Miller and Wade would be as good as any in the league, especially with Chalmers backing them up). The Wizards have to focus first on going at least 9 -7 in their division. The team as presently manned will not win more than 4 games, an upgrade is essential.

by khrabb on May 21, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I take exception

who should give a flying patootie if Gordon can’t play defense?

I give a flying patootie… I want the Wizards to start obtaining players that can man-up on D. Either through trades or through the draft. They already have 3 elite guys that can fill it up Offensively.

Hinrich gives the Wizards everything that Gordon does (3-point shooting, etc…) except he’s slightly bigger, a better passer, good on the break, great pick-n-roll guy, smart player, very good FT shooter, can play PG or SG, and he’s a hard worker… But the most important difference is that he plays hard nosed DEFENSE.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on May 21, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You or someone else probably explained this already . . .

But with all the positives that Hinrich brings (at least the positives that have us plotting ways to get him), then why are the Bulls so keen to get rid of him.
Is it that he doesn’t work well with Derrick Rose (now the franchis player)?
Is it a preference for John Salmons over Hinrich?
Is it simply “Lets get something for him now before he leaves us for nothing”?
Is it a play for cap relief?

"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on May 22, 2009 4:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs