Yahoo Sports Comments on the Head Coaching Job
Flip a done deal?
I really hope not.
almost 3 years ago
Jheiser3
62 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Care to explain what's wrong with Flip
Because I’m two days away from writing my “Hire Flip!” post, and I need some ammo.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I would
But I’m about a week away from writing my “Hire Avery!” post, and I don’t want to spoil it.
Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.
by Jake Whitacre on Apr 9, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
All good choices but I'd prefer a
“Hire Eddie Jordan!” post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk
I think Isaiah Thomas deserves another shot
He’s been involved with winning teams, and he’s been a good judge of talent. Who’s with me?
by pantslessyoda1 on Apr 9, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Er, wrong in thinking I'm being serious, I mean.
Isaiah’s a disgrace, and the idea of him actually getting hired again to run the Clippers makes me lose faith in America.
by pantslessyoda1 on Apr 9, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
You were right the first time
I assumed you were being sarcastic, therefore joking about Isaiah. Hate that guy with a passion. Two-faced sniveling little weasel.
8 seconds ago I said that Arenas for Brand was the worst idea I'd ever heard
I stand corrected.
Hiring Isiah Thomas for anything blows that idea away.
by MR on Apr 9, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Lessons from previous experiences...
To be honest, I don’t know much about how much impact a coach really makes in the NBA. It’s tough to gage. There are discussions that perhaps we ought to hire a defensive-minded coach because that is our huge weakness. I don’t like that discussion, to be honest.
Terry Porter was brought in for the Suns and focused on defense. They slowed down their offense (which neutralized their competitive edge), and really, it was a disaster. The Suns loved to see Gentry bring back the run-and-gun offense, and they won some nice games. This is all up for debate, but perhaps it’s a lesson for us…
Just because we suck on defense, doesn’t mean we should bring in a defensive-minded (or defensive specialist) coach.
I’d be very happy with Flip.
Also, Flip isn't a bad defensive coach
The Pistons were usually very good defensively.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
But look where the Suns are now
Who cares about the few nice games they won under Gentry. My point is that they will never win a championship playing that style and they need to realize that if they want to win championships they need defense and to at least slow down slightly because you cant run like that in the playoffs. Same goes for New York and Golden State even though they dont have the pieces to compete yet but even if they did, under their coaches they will not win a championship.
Except they were better on defense under D'Antoni than Porter
Or the guy before D’Antoni.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
You missed my point
Did the Suns win a championship or get to the finals under D’Antoni? They didnt even give Porter a chance to help them get better defensively because they didnt want to slow down.
This is really silly
If you want to use winning the championship as your criteria for coaching, then we’re down to choosing between Gregg Popovich, Phil Jackson and Larry Brown. Oh, I guess we could bring Pat Riley out of retirement.
One in 30 teams win the title. That doesn’t mean that Mike D’Antoni is a bad coach. The Suns were consistently average defensively. Not great, but not terrible either. Terry Porter is not a defensive coach. His defensive ratings in Milwaukee: 23rd, 25th. Why would Terry Porter turn it around, exactly. And when you have a 35-year old Steve Nash, a 36-year old Grant Hill and old man Shaq, why exactly should anyone expect you to be good defensively?
(By the way, I think the Suns really dropped the ball by not hiring Flip. He would have fit them like glue).
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
FLIP FLIP FLIP
best coach for the wiz on the market, hands down
I see that nobody is on the "Hire Wes Jr." bandwagon
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
We need that badboy
drawing up plays on the sideline. No time for being a HC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk
Or the "Hire Sam Mitchell" bandwagon
Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.
by Jake Whitacre on Apr 9, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
A vote here for Avery Johnson
The Mavericks got better when they went from Don Nelson to Johnson. Under his guidance, a team of underachievers played tougher defense and got to the finals (which they would have won except the refs gave D-Wade the LeBron treatment).
Like Johnson, Saunders inherited an extremely talented team. Unlike Johnson, he didn’t make his team better.
Here’s part of a story from the Detroit Free Press about Saunders’ last game as coach of the Pistons:
Detroit Pistons president Joe Dumars watched the last 10 minutes of Game 6 against Boston on Friday and saw a microcosm of the entire Flip Saunders era. …
“We got a lead, we’re good enough, we’re right there … we didn’t get it done.”
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/pistons/2008-06-03-saunders_N.htm
And for those who don’t like Johnson because he slowed down the Mavericks, keep this in mind: Saunders’ 07-08 Pistons were the slowest pace factor in the NBA.
I say hire Avery Johnson
This team should hire a tough coach that will push them to work hard if they want to contend for a championship the next couple years. They dont need another softie head coach thats not going to light a fire under them or make them work hard.
Some of you all may say that Gilbert and some of the other personalities on this team may not take too well to a coach like Johnson but the players need to be mature enough to realize what it takes to win. Phoenix and Chicago are good examples of that and look where they are now compared to where they should be or shouldve been if they wouldve bought in to their tough minded coaches systems.
Nice idealism talk
We all know it doesn’t really work that way in the NBA.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
You pointed to two examples that completely undermine your point
And attempt to use them to support your point. That kind of speaks for itself.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
And I really don't understand why everyone thinks Flip is a softie
Just because Rasheed Wallace wouldn’t listen to him? I don’t get it.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I never said
anything about Sheed and you still didnt explain anything.
LJ
Your point is that the Phoenix/Chicago examples fail because the players should have listened to the coaches.
Some of you all may say that Gilbert and some of the other personalities on this team may not take too well to a coach like Johnson but the players need to be mature enough to realize what it takes to win. Phoenix and Chicago are good examples of that and look where they are now compared to where they should be or shouldve been if they wouldve bought in to their tough minded coaches systems.
Your talking in hypotheticals (“If they bought in, things would be different”). I’m talking in reality (they didn’t buy in, so it didn’t work). You’re argument rests on a situation that didn’t happen. Mine rests on one that did. Therefore, you’re speaking in ideal talk.
As far as Flip goes, you also said this:
They dont need another softie head coach thats not going to light a fire under them or make them work hard.
The obvious implication is that Flip or someone else is a softie. That’s just insane to me. The Pistons were very successful under Flip (they won more games than they did under Larry Brown). The conference just got better. They didn’t have to play a Dwayne Wade, LeBron James or Big 3 when Brown was coach (in 2005, Wade got injured). I don’t think the conference finals thing should be held against him as much as it is. Flip’s never flamed out with a favored team in the first round, after all.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
He couldn't control a locker room with Wally Szcerbiak in it
Flip had open feuding between the pretty boy and KG and couldn’t do anything to quell that. He is a softie. He might be the best coach for the Wizards, but he is a softie.
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Apr 10, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
What feud?
I remember an incident, I don’t remember a feud. I also remember KG punching Rick Rickert.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Agent Zero
I don’t think Gil and Avery Johnson would get along very well. Also, I don’t think Abe or Ernie would be able to stand that guy.
Does anyone really like authoritarian coaches?
Besides, Gil’s not lazy or uncompetitive, so I could actually see him working well with Avery. I’m still kind of on Team Flip, but my problem with Avery isn’t his style. Besides, even if he does lose the players like he did with the Mavericks, at least he’d likely improve the team for a year or two before they turn on him a la Scott Skiles.
by pantslessyoda1 on Apr 9, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
My biggest worry is that Avery will marginalize Arenas on the court
The real issue isn’t the disciplinarian thing. I think this team could buy in if it had to. My problem is that Avery has historically ran his offense through his forwards, with his point guards just following his orders. That worked fine in Dallas because their two best players were forwards, and they had no real point guard (Jason Terry came closest, but Avery rarely used him that way). It started to fall apart when Devin Harris developed into the type of player you could provide freedom.
If Avery was here, our offense would be a lot of Caron and Antawn and not much Gilbert. I don’t like that as a way to maximize our team and, frankly, to get Gilbert to buy in to defense.
Flip gives his point guards freedom. Chauncey Billups was below average until he became an MVP candidate under Flip. We always want Gil to transition into Chauncey Billups long-term; who better to do that than the guy who made Chauncey Chauncey? And it’s not like Flip’s team’s don’t defend: his 03/04 Timberwolves team was sixth, and his Detroit teams were fifth, seventh and fourth.
Anyway, I’m spoiling too much, but just to be clear, my concerns with Avery have very little to do with whether he’ll lose this team.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
And I think freedom...
…is exactly what is good for Arenas. He mentioned that the other day about Tap, that he can just play. I was happy to see a 20:1 assist-to-turnover ratio. His ability to hit big shots, drive and draw the foul, and create productive activity in offense is not found in Caron/Antawn. I am extremely frustrated with Caron’s reliance on jumpers and his lack of getting to the line. For these reasons, I want the offense run through Arenas. And if getting Flip will do that, then I want Flip.
P.S. Hate to get off topic here, but Blatche’s dribbling, driving, and fade-away antics are pissing me off.
Which time
Did Chauncy become Chauncy after Flip ran him out of Minnesota, or when Flip got to Detroit? I remember Chauncey being that player in Detroit LONG before Flip arrived.
Detroit’s identity was defense before he got there so I can’t give him credit for pointing the boat in the same direction.
Chauncey
Was a Finals MVP under Larry Brown, sure, but his game didn’t really pick up to an MVP-caliber level until 2005/06, Flip’s first year. Mostly, his improvement was in his passing ability and lack of turnovers. Isn’t that exactly what we want with Gil?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Finals MVP. He is that good before Flip gets there. Why would Flip get credit for him continuing to build on that? I give that credit to Larry Brown and Phil Ford.
What is germane is that he had one very good series
But under Flip Saunders, he had a GREAT year.
Larry Brown is similar to Avery Johnson. They both like to stress Defense, and control the Offense (although Avery is much more controlling than Brown). A creative Point Guard cannot excel under either.
In comes Flip Saunders, and after one year, Chauncy Billups is being mentioned among the best Point Guards in the League. That “improvement” is directly attributable to the freedom that Flip gives his PG’s in his Offensive system. In other words, the talent may be there, but you’ll never see it unless the player is put in the right situations and Offensive system.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Just Say No
I have zero confidence in Flip Saunders.
Flip would bring the half court offense, its his specialty. And? That’s about it. Is that the infusion this team needs? The Wiz would become more efficient on offense like Detroit did while he as there. So that would ensure the team is back in the playoffs, ready for the slaughter by a team who knows playoff defense. This team needs to find balance and that starts with defense. I also don’t think an above .500 winning percentage is going to keep him from losing this team the same way he lost, or never had, his other teams.
I voted for Avery realizing full well that he and Gilbert might get along like vinegar and toothpaste. I voted for him because he brings the San Antonio system of defense. The Cavs have a great shot at the Title because of two things: Lebron and Ferry/Mike Brown’s commitment to defense which they got from Popovich. He’s gone farther in the playoffs than Flip and can speak from a former player’s perspective. I think he could work with the stars and develop McGee and McGuire. He might get Nick to do something other than score. When I think of NY and Flip, I see Flip thinking of all the different ways he could get him points. Ignoring the fact that he doesn’t really contribute in any other way.
What happened to the Pistons the year after Flip left?
They stink.
Does that speak to the ineptitude of Michael Curry or the ability of Flip Saunders? Maybe the subtraction of Chauncey Billups has a lot to do with it, but Detroit sure does suck without Flip Saunders and Chauncey Billups.
I agree with one of Prada’s points that Flip and Chauncey were a great team together. Flip gives the reigns to his PG, and Gilbert is our best player/play maker/facilitator.
Regarding the argument that Flip coaches a half court offense and he will slow down our transition game: Detroit was a half court team, so he coached to their strengths. We will always have a great transition game as long as we have Caron playing the passing lanes, Gil leading the break, and Nick Young finishing. If anything, Flip will help our defensive fundamentals so we don’t have to gamble for steals as much, and will add a half court game to our possessions when we get defensive stops/boards.
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Apr 10, 2009 3:11 PM EDT reply actions
Flip has nothing to do with how the Pistons are now
The only reason the pistons are the way they are is because of the billups for iverson trade. That trade broke up the Pistons core without actually breaking the whole thing up but it freed up a bunch of money so they can rebuild since they are aging. If Flip was still their coach, their record would not be much different.
So the difference between AI and Billups is 20 wins?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Yes
Detroit was coming off of an Eastern Conference Finals loss, 3rd in a row. They were thinking one last run before Sheed became a free agent. The Billups deal told everyone in that locker room that their run was over. It was time to play for the future. Iverson is the exact opposite of everything that franchise stood for, so it also ruined them for a short term run.
You could see just that when they played better without Iverson.
What?
You could see just that when they played better without Iverson.
Detroit is 8-9 without Iverson this season. Small sample size, but that’s right on their .500 pace.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I think a large part of it was the incompetence of the current coach
I mean, first he tried to play Tayshaun Prince at power forward, going small while still running a very slow-paced offensive system, then he sent Rip Hamilton to the bench, even though AI is clearly more well suited to play with the young second unit. Also, you can’t forget that he allowed their young bigs to take a step back as far as development, and even now is talking about bringing Rasheed off the bench in favor of Kwame Brown.
Personally, I think that even after the trade, the Pistons could have won 45 or maybe even 50 games if Flip had been the coach, not so much because he’s just a genius or something, but because he’s generally competent.
by pantslessyoda1 on Apr 11, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Generally competent
After Ed Tapscott – I’ll take that.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
A lot of those problems
were because of the billups -ai trade and because they commited to starting rodney stuckey at all costs. What could Flip have done differently if he were still their coach? He would still have the same players to work with and neither Rip or AI would be happy coming of the bench. Also, dont get me wrong im not saying that Michael Curry is as good a coach as Flip but given the situation I dont see what Flip couldve done differently.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Roy Hibbert tap-dances to Maine
- Grizzlies Valentine’s Day cards are the key to love
- Kevin Love would like the NBA to take the MLB’s approach on All-Star games
- Kobe Bryant fires a few hilarious salvos at Jeremy Lin
- Brandon Jennings states the obvious regarding his 2014 free agency, everyone goes nuts
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
