Questioning Antawn Jamison: Truth About It
Truth comes through with a real thought-provoking post about Antawn Jamison's defensive struggles and how it may complicate Flip Saunders' job next year. I don't want to sum it up too much, because you should all read it, but this raises an interesting question: just what is to be done about them? If the answer long-term is making Jamison a sixth man, as he was in Dallas, then how will he take it? Truth brings in some evidence to suggest that he may not take it as well as even he assumes.
This is a key question long-term. Jamison has preached sacrifice a lot, the question is, will he live by his own words?
almost 3 years ago
Mike Prada
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Jamison cannot play the defense needed at PF
He does not want to play SF. He will not come off the bench.
The choice is either trade Jamison, or make sure there are players around him who can cover up for his defensive liabilities.
Jamison does offer a lot outside of defense though...
I kinda like the lineup of Arenas, McGuire, Butler, Jamison and Haywood just because it includes two defense first players, along with three scorers.
Replacing McGuire in the starting lineup with a more traditional veteran SG who’s an exceptional defender and 3-point shooter sounds even more appealing to me.
by Johnnie Futbol on Apr 30, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow
That Bosh trade sounded plausible…. I think that Toronto might actually go for that…. However, the Wizards would need to ensure it was a sign-and-trade; to lock up Bosh to a longer term contract….
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
i don't know
A sign and trade is the only possible way such a trade makes sense for the Wizards. But I question whether they can afford another max-type contract, which would lock the Wizards into paying a stiff luxury tax for a number of years (instead of just next year), unless they’re willing to not resign Haywood or Butler.
My personal assumption is that Grunfeld will be able to use one of the two expiring contracts to make a trade (in combo with either Blatche, Young or the draft pick), in order to pull in a vet, but the other expiring contract will be allowed to expire under the Wizards just to pull themselves closer to the luxury tax cap.
Who knows, a lot depends on the guy writing the checks.
by Johnnie Futbol on Apr 30, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
That would be my concern as well
If Gilbert and Antawn’s contract locked us into the same core for an extended period of time, than adding another big contract like Bosh’s would almost force us to rely on veteran minimum players to fill out our bench for a long time. Not to mention that it would probably hurt our chances to re-sign Butler and Haywood down the road. Then again, I’m saying that without crunching the salary numbers.
I would love to bring Bosh onboard, but I’m just not sure if he’s a feasible option unless Abe really wants to make a splash in the luxury tax.
Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.
by Jake Whitacre on Apr 30, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
A trade for Bosh immediately puts the Wizards ahead of Boston
And on a par with, or slightly ahead of Cleveland.
Instant contenders for the NBA Championship. – I think Abe Polin would approve that trade.
PG – Arenas / Crittenton
SG – McGuire / Stevenson / Young
SF – Butler / McGuire
PF – Bosh / Jamison / Songaila
C – Haywood / McGee
Under normal circumstances, I’d worry about trading Blatche because it would leave the Wizards thin at Center…. but Bosh is certainly capable of filling in at Center for short periods of time… and the Wizards could use Toronto’s #1 to pick up a Center.
That line up is balanced. It’s a much better defensive line up than the current roster… and the bench is much stronger, with Jamison and Young providing some scoring punch.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I agree with your thinking
and to add Bosh would definitely put us over the top, and make us THE most exciting team in the ENTIRE NBA.
I would think the money made back by the success/popularity of the team with Bosh would more than take care of the luxury tax issues.
Get Abe his ship now, then let Leonsis take care of the cap down the road.
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Apr 30, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
And
adding Bosh to the squad would make the most-likely scenario in which Jamison would be willing to come off the bench.
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Apr 30, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish there were more big bodies in this draft
Really, we could afford to trade Blatche if we could just pick up a Roy Hibbert-type who won’t set the world on fire but can at least give you 15 quality minutes a night. I’m assuming that BJ Mullens is no closer to defending at an NBA level than Javale is, right?
by pantslessyoda1 on Apr 30, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Without working out the exact numbers — I think it would put the Wizards in the same position as Boston. Gilbert and Bosh are equal to two of their Big Three, and Jamison plus Butler are equal to another of their Big Three. Haywood is Perkins’ contract. Then you have a bunch of low level contracts throughout the rest of the squad.
Very similar financially
by NBR on May 1, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the issue is that after next season, the Wizards will have a number of players they may or may not want to resign over the following two seasons. With Bosh, will they be able to afford Haywood & McGuire (2010), or Butler, Young and Critt (2011)? If you give all of these players relatively modest pay increases then that would likely put the Wizards total salary somewhere between 85-90 million, if they keep a roster of closer to 15 than 10.
It’s hard to say what the NBA free agent market will be like in the coming few years given the current economic situation, so maybe Grunfeld will be able to get signifcantly more for less with the players he signs, but keeping a nucleus of Arenas, Bosh, Butler, Jamison, Haywood and a supporting cast is gonna cost signifcant $$, there’s no other way to look at it. It’s up to Pollin and Grunfeld to decide if they can afford it. Both the Celtics and the Lakers right now have 3 big contracts and the rest under $5 mil. The scenario I describe just above is nothing of the sort.
by Johnnie Futbol on May 1, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep, very true and well stated — if the Wizards acquired Bosh and kept Jamison/Butler/Arenas, they’d have to have a low cost supporting cast. They’d have to say goodbye to their young talent when their contracts expired. I think Haywood is the only player on the rest of the team who’d be able to get a contract above $2mil per annum.
If Butler’s contract demands became problematic in 2011, I think at that stage you then decide to part with Jamison for some cap flexibility. Then you could begin to pay more money into your supporting cast, but not until then.
……………………………………………………………………………………
It’s not really an issue for me, because if the Wizards acquired Bosh, I’d want to see the club part with most of the club’s young bench players and bring in solid dependable veterans to come off the bench.
Guys like Grant Hill, Quinton Ross, Ime Udoka, Walter Herrmann, Ronnie Price, maybe a McDyess or Joe Smith type. Low cost veterans who know their business and do it well.
I wouldn’t think it was worth holding onto most of the youngsters, they’re too mistake prone and that could prove costly in the playoffs. If you acquire Bosh, I think you have to make a major push for a Championship.
by NBR on May 1, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I would prefer Rubio over Bosh
Because of the numbers, as Jake pointed out. Here are some numbers:
As it stands now, the Wizards current Big 3 will make roughly $37.5 million in 2009-10, and $41.5 million in 2010-11. Adding Bosh to the Big 3, the “Big 4” would cost $53.3 million in 2009-10, and likely $58.6 in 2010-11. That leaves next to no money for anyone else, so the Wizards truly will be a 4 player team with bit players surrounding them, unless Pollin is willing to go way over the luxury tax limit. A four player team can work, I guess, but with the Wizards’ injury history, a four player team can get derailed rather quickly. Everything has to break just right for any success to be achieved. And we all know the heavy mileage Caron and Antawn have endured over the past few years.
These numbers are why I think the Wizards need to keep their draft pick. In order for the Wizards to expand their Big 3 (who I don’t think can get a championship on their own) to a Big 4, the Wizards either need to take the Bosh/Big 4-with-a-bunch-of-scrubs-around-them route, or have that 4th player be a guy on a rookie contract. I think Griffin, Rubio and Harden can be that 4th player. Whether anyone else available in the draft could fill that role is a tougher question.
I basically agree with you
Bosh is a really good player, but Rubio could also improve the team, while also giving us a potential superstar to build around for the next decade. A Big Four would be too expensive, and we could be even better in three years if we draft Rubio.
Also, I don’t really like how it seems like we’ve started to not care as much about the salary cap when we discuss possible deals. Abe said he’ll pay the luxury tax for a championship team, but I don’t think he’d want to do it year in and year out. I think that he’ll pay the tax this year if it means signing a high draft pick, but I wouldn’t count on him being willing to take on the salary of a Bosh or Amare over the next half a decade.
by pantslessyoda1 on Apr 30, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
So
That leaves next to no money for anyone else, so the Wizards truly will be a 4 player team with bit players surrounding them
How is that ANY different from Boston, who has $55 Million tied up in three players (Allen, KG & Pierce)
OR
How is that ANY different from the Lakers, who have $62 Million tied up in four players (Kobe, Gasol, Bynum and Odom)
If you want to be a Championship team, you gotta have Championship talent…. That means you have to PAY..
As much as I like Griffin, he’s not Bosh….. He may be an All-Star eventually… I like Rubio as well. I think in 2 or 3 years, he’s going to be an absolute STAR…. but Bosh gives the Wizards the best chance NOW….
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
By the way....
Veteran players FLOCK to the Boston Celtics, LA Lakers and Cleveland Cavaliers for a reason… Those Veterans are willing to play for the Vet minimum for a reason…..Guys like Joe Smith, Derek Fisher, Eddie House and Tony Allen are willing to take a minimum salary to try for a ring.
They would flock to the Wizards as well, IF THEY TRADED FOR BOSH.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
One thing that hasn't been said
If that Bosh trade occurred, that would probably mean bye-bye to Haywood after this coming year, because the Wizards wouldn’t have the money. So when you look at the proposed trades, you have to include Haywood in the analysis.
Bird rights
we could sign Brendan to an extension regardless of our cap situation
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Apr 30, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Very good argument
regarding the top teams salary situations
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Apr 30, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
As for your underlying question
About whether Jamison will practice what he preaches and sacrifice for the betterment of the team (ie play 3 or come off the bench). The answer is no.
If this year has shown me anything it’s that Jamison is a front runner. If things are good then he’s happy to be a cog in the machine. The good guy, the nice guy. But when things go wrong. He is a guy who won’t look in the mirror for his own part of the problem and instead wants the hammer dropped on anyone else.
Jamison is a fine citizen, no question. And has had a productive NBA career. But when it comes to this locker room and this team he is a hypocrite. Do as I say not as I do. Don’t you chuck up shots, but I will. You mind your p’s and q’s on defense, but I won’t. I am sorry but as good a player and citizen as Antawn Jamison has been for the Wizards, I’ve had it with him.
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Apr 30, 2009 8:32 PM EDT reply actions
That's a bit strong
But I can’t disagree with the underlying facts. Jamison had an incredible opportunity to be a leader this season, but instead he was a critic taking potshots in the press at the young players.
As for the original post, I don’t think that having Jamison at PF is a problem. It’s having Butler at SF and Jamison at PF that’s the problem. Neither are good defenders (Butler has the potential to be, but hasn’t been in recent years). If the Wizards had a great defender at SF, plus Haywood at C, they could do fine with Jamison at PF, because those two could cover for him. That’s why Jeffries was such a key player during his stint. He could start at SG, yet slide over and guard either the opposing SG, SF or PF depending on who Butler and Jamison couldn’t guard.
I think one of the biggest things Jamison was frustrated with
was the young guys’ lack of preparation, or dedication, to put in the work outside of the games. All we see is the game, but it shows that our young guys aren’t as serious as they should be about improving.
I agree that Jamison’s frustrations showed often in the games and even more often through the media, but he no doubt put in the work in the weight room and in practice. It’s just human nature to get pissed about losing that much and be surrounded by young guys who might not take the game as serious as he does. He might not be the best communicator, but I believe he did all he could to set an example through work ethic for the youngsters.
As for him coming off the bench – it shouldn’t even be a consideration until we have someone actually worth starting in front of him. No one on the roster now is even close, but if we did somehow get Bosh, that would be a different situation.
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Apr 30, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
my first stance when i came to bullets forever
was to put Jamison on the bench because of his defensive struggles. as much as my opinion of his overall worth to this team has greatened in the past two seasons, the fact still remains that he has to be on the bench for this team to be a contending force.
from the bench, he is an unstoppable scoring option, and can be surrounded with better skilled defensive players to compensate for his deficiencies. He is the only of the Big 3 whose game translates to a substitutes role.
'he nails an open three from the corner....just like you and me, this one was made by penetration' - Truthaboutit - Round 1 Game 5 Recap
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