The next Wizards Head Coach
by Rook6980 on Apr 10, 2009 3:01 PM EDT
in Coaching
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PrintI need to weigh in with my opinion for which candidate would be the best choice for the next Wizard's Head Coach. Ernie Grunfeld has stated that the Wizards are determined to hire a winning, veteran coach. The team has a nice mix of veteran starters and young guys on the bench. I suspect that Management (Grunfeld and Pollin) won't want to wait for a rookie Head Coach to get his feet on the ground, so they'll opt for a veteran Coach that can win now....., Therefore, I'm going to drop Tom Thibodeau and Mark Jackson from my list.
In my opinion, that leaves only two guys.
Let's look at the two main candidates:
Avery Johnson - "The Little General". I like Johnson's coaching style - but only in certain situations. In my opinion, Avery would be perfect for a young team like OKC or Memphis. His demanding and controlling style, defense first philosophy, and intensity could be used to mold a young team into a Playoff squad. If he has enough talent, and if the players really buy into his system, Avery Johnson could be coachning a real contender for the Championship for a long time.
But if you put him in charge of a veteran team, lead by a veteran Point Guard, he may soon find out they will no longer listen to him. That's exactly what happened in Dallas. Johnson tried to turn Jason Kidd into a jump-shooter and took away all of Kidd's ability to create. Avery completely shut down the Maverick's running game and continually called half-court set plays - with Kidd as a 3rd option jump shooter. Sure, Dallas played better defense, but they were one of the most boring offensive teams in the League and one of the least efficient offenses in the West. When he left the Mavericks, Avery Johnson said he thought part of the problem was that he didn't have "a point guard that could create opportunities off the dribble". Huh? He had JASON KIDD !
If the Wizards hire Avery Johnson, I think it will take less than half a season before Arenas and Johnson are at eath other's throats. There's too much talent on the roster to miss the playoffs, but I can't see Avery Johnson inspiring this group to play at their peak abilities.
Flip Saunders - In Minnesota, Flip was not able to get a mediocre team to over-achieve. However, when Minnesota helped augment Kevin Garnet by adding talent to the roster (Latrell Sprewell and Sam Cassell) they won 50 games. Then they won 47 games. Then they won 50 again. Then they went to the Western Conference Finals. None of those early Minnesota teams had enough talent to get past first-round in the Playoffs. When they acquired Cassell and Sprewell, they went straight to the Conference Finals.
In Detroit, Flip inherited a very good veteran Pistons team - and in 2005 set a francise record for wins with a 64-18 record. Saunders continually got the Pistons to the Eastern Conference Finals...Losing to Miami, Cleveland and Boston in consecutive years.
The point here is that if you give Flip Saunders enough talent, he has shown that he can take a veteran team as far as the Conference Finals. Do the Wizards have enough talent to go further? Only time will tell.
As for Saunder's coaching style: He's a decent "X's and O's" guy (much better than Eddie Jordan or Ed Tapscott). He makes good in-game adjustments, something recent Wizard's Head Coaches have been unable to do. His teams share the ball, and are very unselfish. He likes to run. He likes the 3-point shot. His teams have always played very good defense. He plays a type of "match-up zone" defense that may help to hide some of the Wizard's individual player deficiencies. He's an extremely adaptable coach. That came from his days in the CBA.
Here's some quotes from Flip that may give you some insight:
"Don’t try to pound your philosophy into a group who maybe can’t play that way"
"…We are going to play some zone defense. That is something that I really do believe in."
“I’m not the type of guy that will browbeat you. I believe in positive reinforcement to encourage my players.”
“What you do as a coach is you look at your personnel. What you do is adapt."
Saunders will be the perfect match for this team of veterans who know how to play the game the correct way. The Wizards are very good on offense, rebound the ball, have a deep and talented bench, play unselfishly and know how to win. Saunders has been around a long time and understands that sometimes less is more. He did not come into Detroit trying to change things drastically, and I expect he'll do the same in Washington. My guess is that he'll install his match-up zone defensive philosophy, and just tweak the Offense - and let em run.
Negatives? Some former players (Rip Hamilton for one) have said that he failed to hold certain players accountable for their actions. That could eventually become a problem - as we saw with Eddie Jordan - but I think you would probably eventually get that same complaint about any "player's coach".
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Positive Reinforcement
I strongly believe in this principle. These coddled, rich NBA babies don’t handle the “I’ll bench you as soon as I see a mistake” treatment well, especially the young guys. It ticked me off when Nick would see his minutes drastically diminished, because Tap didn’t like something he saw. The vets didn’t get the same treatment, and Tap’s inconsistency damaged Nick’s progression.
I’m not sure how Avery would deal with this team, and it sure is a gamble. We don’t need a gamble. I like your arguments, and I am only more convinced that we need Flip to be our coach.
Very compelling arguments
I think in conjunction with Ernie’s statements, we have to accept that this is an offensive-minded team (with the talent and tools to play better-than-average defense). In that light, Flip would be the best choice.
I just hope they are drafting a player who will fit the New Coaches’ philosophy.
I agree with you that Flip is our guy, but
You can’t argue in favor of Flip’s winning pct. in Minnesota and his 64-win season in Detroit without at least pointing out in your evaluation of Avery Johnson that he won a team-record 67 games the year they lost to Golden State.
Johnson immediately gained the respect of that Mavs team, and though he might not have utilized their offense to their full potential, he maximized other parts of their game and also maximized wins in the regular season.
His first playoff series loss came against the 2005 Suns, who were the favorite to win it all by many until they met the Spurs and the refs in the conference finals. You can’t really fault Johnson that much on losing that series.
Next season (his first full one as a coach I believe), they went all the way to the finals. Though they lost to Wade and the Heat, you can’t call that season a failure, though they had championship aspirations.
The next season was the one in which they won 67 games, and lost to the Warriors in the first round. After losing in the finals the previous year and the great regular season they just had, such a disappointing was took with such shock and disgust, that someone had to become the scapegoat for the failure. Of course the blame didn’t fall on Dirk, who was absent down the stretch in just about every game, so it fell on Johnson’s shoulders.
After the immediate success of Johnson and the Mav’s rise to the top of the NBA fell short a couple times in the playoffs, the team naturally had doubts about themselves. I imagine after taking such a tough first round exit as they did, Johnson could have had doubts as well. But my point is that those tough losses had to create such a great amount of discontent in the locker room, Avery Johnson had to become the scapegoat and had to go. Since that is the freshest image/scenario in our minds of him, we always point to Johnson and say the team turned on him. This might be true, but after such straining and extreme circumstances that he and the Mavs just went through, it would be a nearly impossible task to get that team back to where they needed to be.
That team still isn’t back at the level they were at when they won 67 games, and rather than a #1 seed in the playoffs, they are a #8 seed. Maybe Avery Johnson maximized that team’s potential and isn’t getting enough respect.
I do agree with all of your points on Flip Saunders, but I feel like you breezed through Avery Johnson’s case and focused on the negative aspects of him as a coach because you favor Flip as our coach. I’ve kind of been doing that myself, but the constant case that Johnson’s team turned on him is a little single-sided from the Flip supporters at this point.
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Apr 10, 2009 4:10 PM EDT reply actions
Sorry so long...
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Apr 10, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't mean to dismiss Johnson's 64-win season
But that came before he had a real PG…. His offensive philosophy is to run everything through the forwards – in the case of Dallas, that was Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard and Jerry Stackhouse.
By the time they went to the Finals in 2006, Devin Harris had started to establish himself as a front line star at PG – yet Avery Johnson was still calling virtually every offensive play in the half court sets.
I believe that Avery Johnson is a VERY GOOD Head Coach…. but like I said in my post, Johnson would be best served coaching on a young team- WITHOUT an established All-Star Point Guard…. so that he can control and manage the game. Younger, non-established players will take that direction, and run whatever the Head Coach says. Older, more established players, and especially All-Star and All-NBA caliber players should be allowed more freedom.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Also
My comments were not meant as a negative critique of Avery Johnson’s overall coaching skills….
I was merely trying to point out the few areas in which I believe he would be ill-suited as the Wizard’s next Head Coach.
I believe that his defensive philosophies are sound. He’s got fire and passion that he can pass on to players. He’s certainly an adequate game-time decision maker, and an above average “X’s and O’s” guy. He runs long practice sessions. He’s got a no-nonsense attitude. Fair but Tough…./!?! And you can’t find a better track record anywhere.
Like I said – he’d be a perfect fit in OKC or Memphis…. and with that young talent, his coaching, and a year or two of experience, either of those teams would be Playoff bound – and Championship material shortly thereafter.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
The case for Flip is obviously a pretty good one...
But if Avery has, with experience, learned to be a bit more flexible, maybe, just maybe he is a better choice.
right - there are 2 ifs with avery
IF he has mellowed a little, and IF wiz players mature, it could be good.
but flip is the safer choice.
"a crab dribble is when you travel" - caron butler
by little stevie colter on Apr 10, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Avery would bring the intensity the team lacks.
Great teams almost always have an emotional leader, a guy whose intensity scares his players/teammates, a guy who insists that everyone plays the game the “right way.” Garnett, Jordan, Popovitch, Larry Brown. The Wizards need that guy. Gil is a great player, but he isn’t that guy. Avery might be that guy.
Avery would be demanding. He would insist that guys play defense, that guys play efficient offense. Is it possible he would lose the team? Sure. But we’ve tried it with a players’ coach. If the team wouldn’t listen to Eddie Jordan, why would it listen to Flip? This team needs Avery.
good points
Avery seems like the fiery guy we might need for this team. A change from the Eddie and Tapscott mold certainly wouldn’t hurt at the very least.
"But like my father said, you want Jennifer Lopez but does she want you? No. I'll just take what ever they give to me."-Julian Taverez
by purpleonblack86 on Apr 10, 2009 10:29 PM EDT reply actions
Avery?
Most of the pro-Avery talk seems to be based on the assumption that a large part of this year’s record is due to discipline issues and effort. Last year, an overachieving team won 43 games without Gilbert Arenas. This year we again played without Gilbert but also lost Haywood and Roger Mason. I would argue that these losses coupled with Deshawn Stevenson’s awful performance (at least partially due to playing hurt) are the more likely causes for the decline rather than discipline or “effort” issues. Thus I question the need for an authoritarian coach. Its great to say that defense wins championships, but you have to coach what you have. And its actually a balance of offense and defense that wins championships. Yeah, the Suns never won it all, but neither did Pat Riley’s Knicks. And if I’m going to watch a team not win championship, I’d much rather watch the Suns.
Just my long winded way of saying I’d prefer Flip to Avery.
pro-talk
You talk about balance then suggest that a team built on offense hire a coach known for his offense. Where is the balance? (paraphrasing Barkley) What has this plan of attack won anything?
My pro-Avery stance comes from the fact that this team has never played playoff defense, ever. No defense, no advance. If the team you have can’t stop people in the playoffs you have to change, unless your goal is just to make the playoffs and ‘see what happens’.
So to me Flip Saunders just represents this Franchise’s desperate, white-knuckled attempt to claw back to mediocrity and nothing more. They’ll win 40 games and get knocked out in the first round. Huzzah.
Flip Saunders is a "balanced" coach
I don’t know where the “offensive coach” thing came from, but his Detroit teams played pretty good defense. He’s known as a proponent of the “match-up zone” – A zone defense he learned from Bill Musselman, a legendary Coach in the NCAA, ABA and NBA. Musselman’s Minnesota Gopher teams were known for their tenacious and extremely physical play – and he employed the match-up zone defense to perfection. His teams were always ranked highly in defense.
The match-up zone is employed by teams that have poor defenders or are not as athletic as their opponents. As such, it would be the perfect defense to implement on the Wizards, who have poor defenders in Arenas and Jamison.
No matter how “intense” Avery Johnson is, he will NEVER turn Antawn Jamison into a good individual defender. On the other hand, Jamison and the other poor individual defenders on the Wizards (Blatche, Arenas, Young, etc…) could benefit from a scheme that relies on TEAM defense – like the match-up zone.
I love hotplate’s line “neither did Pat Riley’s Knicks”. The Knicks never won a Championship, despite having one of the League’s best one-on-one and help defenders – and despite being the toughest and best defensive club – BECAUSE they couldn’t score.
The Wizards don’t have to lead the league in Defense, they don’t even need to be in the top 10…. they just need to play middling defense and the Offense will take care of the rest. The match-up zone gives them the best chance of doing that….
Otherwise, the only other alternative is to rid the roster of poor defenders (Jamison, Arenas, Young, Blatche, Mike James, Etan Thomas) and bring in good defensive players…
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Detroit was playing defense long before Flip got there. That’s why Dumars thought he could lead them, because the defense was there and they just needed his offense. Read the articles from the Post and Times. Both mention Flip as an offensive minded coach. Giving him credit for Detroit’s defense is like giving Tony Dungy credit for the Colts offense.
And how many NBA titles has this wonderful matchup zone won?
they just need to play middling defense and the Offense will take care of the rest.
Not unless taking care of the rest is making it back into the playoffs where they lose in the first round to the better defensive team. That’s the end result of this hire, get the confetti ready.
Wow - so besides being a naysaying Norbert....
do you have a better choice for Coach?
Avery Johnson would constrict the Offense to the point of choking….
You can imply that Flip can’t coach Defense, but the fact remains that his teams were decent Defensive teams… regardless of WHEN they became good…
At NO point, can you say that Avery Johnson’s teams were good on Offense. He turned one of the best Offensive teams, and one of the best Offensive playmakers, into a boring bunch of half-court jump shooters.
Flip may be mentioned as an Offensive coach in the Times and the Post (and many other publications), but the fact remains that his teams were also fairly good defensive teams…
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
At NO point, can you say that Avery Johnson’s teams were good on Offense. He turned one of the best Offensive teams, and one of the best Offensive playmakers, into a boring bunch of half-court jump shooters.
To be fair, this is remarkably far from the truth. The Mavs led the NBA in offensive rating in 2005/06, were second in 2006/07 and eighth last season.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Given the stats from Prada
Care to revise?
I prefer Avery because he comes from the San Antonio model and that model wins titles and takes teams far into the playoffs as it has done in SA, Dallas under Avery and Cleveland. Its a proven way to win games, win playoff series and win titles. If I’m in charge those are my stated goals. If the roster isn’t prepared to do that then you make some changes instead of continuing down the same path that has yet to lead to anything in the playoffs.
I have yet to see a offense-first team running the match-up zone make it to the NBA Finals or Conference finals or, I can’t remember one. Honestly, what odds would Vegas put on that team, a million to one?
If the roster isn’t prepared to do that then you make some changes instead of continuing down the same path that has yet to lead to anything in the playoffs.
I don’t disagree. Problem is, those major changes should have begun before hiring the coach.
I have yet to see a offense-first team running the match-up zone make it to the NBA Finals or Conference finals or, I can’t remember one.
Come on, this is kind of unfair. They’ve only allowed zones since 2002. The Lakers are running zone defensive sets this year, and they’re fifth in defense. And it’s not like Flip exclusively runs his matchup zone stuff.
Also, one point Rook was trying to make is that Avery slowly made Dallas worse on offense. The stats bear this out.
The larger point of “you can’t advance in the playoffs without defense” is way too much of an oversimplification. Teams advance far with better offenses than defenses all the time. The three-peat Lakers (not to mention the Showtime Lakers) were never a defensive juggernaut. Neither were the 06 Heat. Teams like the Kings and Mavs in the early part of the decade and the Suns recently made extended runs with below-average defenses. And as mentioned before, Flip’s teams are historically above-average on defense, if not better than that.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Titles?
Besides the Lakers with Magic, Kareem, Worthy et al, who wins titles this way? You came up with great examples of similar offensive teams that falter because of their defense (Sacramento, Dallas). The Mavs don’t make that move to the Finals under Don Nelson. It took a defensive coach and stars who bought in.
That Heat team was Top 10 in defensive rating and defended well with Shaq, Wade, Haslem and bench guys like Mourning, Posey and Gary Payton.
I don’t think its oversimplifying things when presented with the counter argument that just becoming mediocre defensively gets the job done. Thats not how it works in the playoffs when good offensive teams get bogged down in extra contact AND the pace slows as well. The better defenses advance more often.
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