Consistent production vs. Steady improvement.

by Rook6980 on Feb 3, 2009 11:35 PM EST Comment 21 comments

Jamison: “Every once in a while, they [the young players] give us an excellent game, now it’s can you be consistent with it, ” Jamison said while getting dressed at his locker. “It’s good to see McGee and Crittenton out there playing well, and Nick finally got out of his slide. But my thing is, baby, we gotta’ do it for more than just one out of every eight or nine games. We gotta’ be consistent with it night and night out.”

Before I get into this, I just want to say that I have the utmost respect for Antawn Jamison. He is the consummate professional. A true warrior that brings his best effort every night; a player that has learned to be consistently productive night in and night out.

BUT............ I have a problem with that quote .

Ok, I understand that Antawn is trying to set the expectation bar for the youngsters; specifically Young and McGee. He's setting the bar pretty high, asking for consistency. But is he being fair?

Very few players come into the Association and start putting up consistent numbers; and those that do, are the very rare exceptions (LeBron James, etc..).

A look at Antawn's rookie season reveals a player that didn't put up steady "consistent" numbers. The game by game stats also show a surprising stretch in March when his minutes were reduced for a few games, presumably due to poor performance.

As a matter of fact, I was shocked to learn that Jamison did not have a very good Rookie season; and he was injured for half his second season. Surprising, considering his quotes about the lack of consistency from the Wizards young players this year. While with the Warriors, he was even called their "sometimes explosive, sometimes invisible Rookie".

Look at the minutes Jamison was given as a Rookie in 1999:
18 mpg in February
22 mpg in March
26 mpg in April
27 mpg in May

As a result of the consistent minutes (except the blip in March), Jamison was given the opportunity to improve. Even when his numbers fluctuated, sometimes wildly, he was given consistent minutes.

His first start came on March 24, 1999 against the Clippers.What was his attitude back then? This quote says a lot:

"I told myself, just go out there and have fun, don't rush things, let things come to me, let whatever happens happens,'' Jamison.

What? Have fun? NOTHING about putting up "consistent numbers"?

Absolutely nothing wrong with having an up and down Rookie season... or even having a so-so Second season for that matter. There's nothing wrong with having fun either. Basketball, even if it's your job, should be fun. Lack of improvement, on the other hand - that would be something to be concerned about.

Antawn and Coach Tapscott have to stop demanding that these young guys provide "consistency", but rather that they show improvement. Antawn only needs to remember back to his early career, to remember what it was like - and BACK OFF. Start encouraging the youngsters to get better.... and stop demanding what even he could not deliver. Accept the fact that the Rookies and Sophs will make mistakes; that they will have "off" games; and let them have the chance to play through them.... just as he was given the chance to do.

Consistent minutes may not lead to consistent production, but consistent minutes should lead to improvement.

Tap & Twan: Let the young guys improve through consistent minutes.

Oh, and Twan.... try to be more like that Rookie in 1999 having fun on a losing team, and less like the NON-Fun stick-in-the-mud Captain demanding something from others that you couldn't deliver yourself.

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Agree wholeheartedly

And this is kind of why I have little problem giving up Jamison and his “veteran example.” Jamison’s been playing on losing teams his entire life and he has no patience to wait for others to develop. I can understand why his standards are pretty high. Trade him to a team where he can win, and we can get out of his contract and start reloading.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Feb 4, 2009 2:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

No way

NEVER trade Antawn. It’s something called loyalty. Mr. Pollin loves Antawn and rightly so. He’s a phenomenal athlete and just one of the classiest guys around. I do understand where you’re coming from about demanding consistency from the young guys…it isn’t really fair. No one expected the Wizards to be in the cellar of the league this year. We held our own just fine last season without Gilbert and no one expected us to be the worst team in franchise history this year. Unfortunately due to injuries we’ve been forced to rely on our young guys and they’re not coming through for us. We can’t really blame them for that but I do understand Tawn’s frustration. He’s signed probably his last contract here and he wants to win. That’s what you want out of your captain. He’s supposed to push the young guys and he’s supposed to want to win above all else. I’ll support Antawn to the grave.

by WizWhiz on Feb 4, 2009 8:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Loyalty don't win games

And our young guys are coming through, or at least coming through a lot more than any veteran not named Jamison or Butler.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Feb 4, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Did someone say Antawn's traded

Where!? When!? Who!? Oh . . .

"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on Feb 4, 2009 9:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

This post is unfair to Antawn

Do you really think that he sat down and looked at his stats from his rookie year and compared his stats to the wizards young players? Do you think he went back and dug up some quote of him 11 years ago to see what he was saying about his production then?

No. Antawn is just giving a general statement that he didnt put a lot of though into. This is an example of taking a quote to serious.

by lj15 on Feb 4, 2009 9:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

yep

Antawn is just giving a general statement that he didnt put a lot of though into. This is an example of taking a quote to serious.

This is a very good point. Added to that, what Antawn says is actually true.

by Johnnie Futbol on Feb 4, 2009 9:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

not sure

I’m sympathetic to rook’s argument, but it’s hard to judge whether Jamison’s veteran leadership is having a positive role or a negative one on the Wizards young players. I understand why a veteran would push young players to play at a consistent level, after all figuring out how to do that is a requirement if a player is to have success in the league. Just because Jamison wasn’t consistent in the earliest years of his career doesn’t mean he didn’t have veterans around him who also pushed him to “bring it” on a daily basis.

These young guys should be pushed to a degree, with the goal of them learning the kind of focus and effort it takes to excel regularly. But the “pushing” or motivation work can be done in an alienating way where it just breaks down the confidence of a player. Or it can be done in a positive manner. In any case, it’s impossible to tell based on the few quotes we read.

Now the point about giving the young guys regular minutes to learn how to be consistent is still valid. I’m not sure they’re not getting valuable experience as it is right now (and it can be argued that in recent weeks the young guys have been getting more minutes), but I agree a lot of learning happens when you’re on the court.

by Johnnie Futbol on Feb 4, 2009 9:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'm kinda on the fence

about trading Jamison.

He has value. Very few other players on the Wizards have any trade value right now…. and as Pradamaster’s excellent post pointed out, the Wizards will have a Luxury Tax problem next year.

on the other hand

Even though Arenas is the “face” of the franchise, Jamison is the team’s heart and soul. The glue guy for this team. He holds everything together. AND, he produces consistently …..

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Feb 4, 2009 9:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

one other reason

I more or less don’t want Jamison to be traded, but I’m of the mind that player rotations would open up significantly with Jamison gone. Players like Blatche and Songalia would have much more time to play their natural positions – and it’s a good thing when your players aren’t generally playing out of position. And McGee, who could excel at PF, could get some minutes there alongside Haywood at center, which IMO would be a very interesting frontcourt.

Jamison is one of the best players on the team, so I’m not about to root for his departure, but it has occured to me that one of the wizards biggest weaknesses is they have too many players playing out of position.

by Johnnie Futbol on Feb 4, 2009 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Our young guys need a push

So many of our young guys are unfocused and don’t take things seriously enough. I think its great that Antawn can make those guys accountable for their play and their work ethic. He’s a fantastic leader and like Rook said he’s the glue that holds this team together. I think it would be a slap in Antawn’s face to trade him. After everything that he has done for this team and the sacrifices he has made. Although I guess I shouldn’t be surprised if it happens because Ernie fired Eddie for what I believe were more personal reasons (they sure didn’t see eye to eye on a lot of things).

by WizWhiz on Feb 4, 2009 9:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Why?

Antawn wants to win. We aren’t winning. So if he’s traded to a winning team, he’ll have a better chance to win.

If anything, it’s a slap in the face to keep him around.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Feb 4, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Any player worth their salt

Wants to win. We should only want guys that want to win more than anything. Antawn is one of those guys. Believe it or not there are actually a few good guys left in this league with Antawn being one of them. I think with all of the dedication that Antawn has given this franchise we owe it to him to build a team that can win. Hopefully we have that team when we’re healthy again.

Losing with consistency and continuity.

by WizWhiz on Feb 5, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You're missing the point

Everybody wants to win, but there are ways to go about doing that. Antawn has indicated that he doesn’t want to be a part of a youth movement. That’s totally within his right, but with our record and our surplus of young guys, we need to have a youth movement to give us the best chance to win long-term. As long as Antawn makes public statements like these that throw the young guys under a bus, he’s not helping this franchise long-term. This isn’t a problem if we were a playoff team (like last year), but it is a problem when you’re 10-38.

Antawn’s negative energy is a big problem in the development of our young guys. The negative energy is understandable, but it’s still a problem.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Feb 5, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually I'm not

I think everyone is blowing this whole quote out of proportion. Antawn is our leader and he expects greatness out of everyone on this team. He also deserves alot more respect than you’re giving him for being a major part of turning this team into a playoff team (this year aside). Every player wants to win now…not 5 years from now. I think he absolutely supports the development of the younger players and if they did ever put out consistent effort (not necessarily production) then he would be pleased with that. He’s always pushed Dray to put out consistent effort because that has been a major problem for him. He’s not throwing the young guys under the bus he’s challenging them to step up and take advantage of this opportunity that they have with so many of our players hurt. You think if our team is healthy again next season we won’t be a playoff team again?

Losing with consistency and continuity.

by WizWhiz on Feb 6, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This frustrates me

I agree with pretty much everything Rook said in his post. Jamison’s attitude towards the young players has frustrated me almost as much as Tap’s. On the one hand I understand, given how hard Jamison works while he sees other guys horsing around.

But this quote, in addition to the “I don’t want to be a part of any rebuilding”…come on. I think Jamison’s pride might be getting in the way of his seeing the big picture. If NY keeps improving, it will make Jamison’s job easier because defenses will have to honor another scoring threat. If McGee and Blatche improve then Jamison will have to take less on defensively.

I don’t necessarily think Jamison needs to be held to whatever attitude he had about playing a decade ago, but I do think he needs to see that, given that this is a lost year anyway, the team needs to start working on those things that will help them next year and the year after (and the length of Jamison’s shiny new contract, come to think of it).

by Jon L on Feb 4, 2009 10:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I completely understand Jamison's position

Jamison is a 32 year with that shiny new contract and was expecting for everyone to be healthy and for them to be ready to compete now. Instead now hes sitting here on a 10-38 team with 3 out of 5 starters injured and the young guys joking around like they dont care.

Look, Jamison has been in this league 11 years. He is ready to win now. He did not sign up for the lottery, he signed up for a championship. The young guys are just trying to feel their way around in the league and see where they belong. You may argue that he should understand that and ajust his attitude accordingly but can you really blame him?

Now I dont know what the solution is. Some people suggest trading him (which im totally against). Some people say we keep him but im just saying that you really cant expect a guy in that situation to have a more positive attitude towards his teammates through the media.

by lj15 on Feb 4, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Young guys joking?

young guys joking around like they dont care.

Ok, perhaps you’ve seen something I haven’t this year…. Maybe you’re privy to some special inside information that I’m not… or Maybe I just missed something.

Last year, we heard (and saw), a lot about the jovial attitude of the “Next 3” (Young, McGuire and Blatche)… but I’ve seen very little (if any) this year. As a matter of fact, we see much less of Nick Young’s smile…. Less of Dom’s kidding around; and Blatche, especially, has lost that youthful exuberance… All I’ve seen from the young kids is seriousness this year.

The interviews are different. No more video blogs (vlogs). No more “bean burrito”. No more Domi.Nick .

Instead we get stuff like this

I’m hoping it’s just the losing season that’s put a damper on this club – or maybe the fact that Gilbert Arenas is not playing – But I hope they get back to their old ways next year, because they used to be a fun bunch to follow and read about.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Feb 4, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you just missed something (or everything)

You never saw the article about the Wizards warm-up in Portland when they were in Portland? Ive seen them sitting on the bench joking during games that i watch on TV and games that ive been to. Ive watched them joke and play around during warm-ups rather than acually warming up among lots of other times where they just didnt look like they were focused or serious.

By joking around I didnt nessecarily mean through the media and I wouldnt consider a vlog or a nickname joking around. So you took what I said wrong partly and the part you didnt you just missed everything.

by lj15 on Feb 4, 2009 2:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I Have to Agree

Jamison has complained about the young guys not taking losing seriously enough before. Whether this is a bad thing or not is another debate.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Feb 4, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jamison

I’m afraid Antawn is starting to sound like THAT GUY. You know, the one in the pick up game who gripes and yells at his teammates all the time but never acknowledges his own (or his best buddy’s) mistakes. It can get tiresome and teammates begin to tune it out.

by hotplate on Feb 4, 2009 4:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Jamison

Leads the team in: scoring per game, rebounding per game, 3 pt baskets made, FG made, minutes, offensive rebounds

Second in: steals, 3 pt percentage

Some of you people want to trade him? Have you all gone mad?

As far as I’m concerned, he can say whatever he wants to the rookies. It’s his job to keep them straight. From what I can tell he may be going easy on them.

by MR on Feb 4, 2009 5:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs