Larry Hughes Discussion
The quest to trade Larry Hughes continues and the most promising destination still appears to be Washington for forward Etan Thomas and guard Mike James.
Thomas is injured, but that hardly matters. James, a 6-4 scoring guard, might be a personality risk. He's played on eight teams in the past six seasons. If that wasn't enough of a red flag, his family appeared on a recent episode of "Supernanny." Let's just say if James takes coaching advice in basketball as well as he took parenting advice from Supernanny, the Bulls would be in for some headaches.
I'm hearing there are other possibilities for Hughes, but my idea of sending him to Sacramento for Mikki Moore and Kenny Thomas appears to have no legs.
Chicago Bulls beat writer Mike McGraw in his daily blog update
[Ed. Note: There were two different Fan Shots and one Fan Post on the Larry Hughes possibility - I'm promoting this FS to the front page for discussion and deleting the other two - Truth]
UPDATE: Mike Jones of the Washington Times says that this deal is not likely.
about 3 years ago
cuppettcj
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Ernie Wants to Get the Band Back Together
I guess. This is not the first time this has been mentioned.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Great idea
I don’t know what the HELL the Bulls get out of this, besides getting rid of a disgrunfield player, but this is without a doubt a plus for the Wizards. The only negative for them is the conflict with Nick Young.
Next, ship Stevenson for anything.
What Conflict?
Nick Young doesn’t start anyway. Unless the two guys don’t like each other for some reason, I don’t see the conflict.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
The other negative is his salary...
Hughes is scheduled to make $12,827,676 this year and $13,655,268 next year (source: Hoopsworld)
Chicago has 14 players under contract and the Wizards have 15; so any trade would have to be lopsided to include one extra player going to Chicago.
If the reported trade works out to be Thomas and James for Hughes – the Wizard’s salary situation gets slightly worse, as the combined salaries for Thomas and James are $13,108,283 for this year and $13,821,100 for next year. I know it’s only a couple of hundred thousand dollars, but the Wizards are apparently very close to the Luxury Tax right now… and next year will be worse. So I wouldn’t be surprised to see another player from each team involved in a swap…. perhaps Michael Ruffin (expiring contract) or Lindsay Hunter (expiring contract) for Pecherov or Dixon. That would give keep the Wizards under the cap this year, and give them some slight relief on the Tax next year (depending on what they do with their Draft choices).
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
How does that help anybody?
Dixon and Pech aren’t guaranteed next year anyway. What am I missing?
You’re right, Dixon does not help….
But Hunter or Ruffin for Pecherov saves the Wizards both this year, and next year…
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Don't we have a team option on Pech for '09-10?
Or did we already exercise it?
Huh?
According to your numbers, Larry would make less than both Etan and James for both this season and next. So the cap situation gets better for the Wiz after the trade. And if we send two players and get back one, then Chicago would have 15 players under contract and we’d have 14. No problem there. Am I missing something?
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Cap implications for us?
I’m too lazy to look into it myself (bad blogging community member! Bad!).
Assuming it doesn’t wreck us terribly, I kinda like this idea. Mostly because I want to get the band back together. So long as we’re praying for an injury-free season, we might as well have all four of our “big three” players when we try it.
Lineup next year:
PG: Arenas, Critt
SG: Hughes, Young, Stevenson
SF: Butler, McGuire, Pech (as long as he’s shooting threes, why not?)
PF: Jamison, Griffin (hey, I’m dreaming here), Blatche, Songalia
C: Haywood, McGee, Blatche (never Songalia. not ever, ever again.)
I think Hughes could make one hell of a fourth scoring option, and if he gets his swagger back, he’s a solid defender as well.
I'm With You Here
I always thought that Larry Hughes would be good in the right system, and that system is ours (or what it used to be, anyway). If this does happen, then Ernie needs to find a coach who likes to fast break a lot, like the Wizards used to when Gilbert was healthy. In such a system, Larry can thrive again, and may even get back to his 2 steals a game average.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
A couple more moves are needed
If we get the #1 we’d need to ship out Songaila and DeShawn for a point guard. If not we still need to move DeShawn somehow and draft a guard.
Why?
What if DeShawn returns to form next season by getting healthy and getting Gilbert back? Won’t he be at least useful as a backup SG? Why do we need another PG? I think Crittenton can be an excellent backup PG.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
And in an emergency
DeShawn has shown that he can play some PG…..
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
So - who would we be "good" with
if we’re down to our 3rd Point Guard?
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Remember,
If we allow Dixon to leave after this year… the Wizards will have 14 players under contract… Sign our 1st round pick and they’ll be at 15
No roster spot for another PG (or a 2nd round Draft pick either)… Stevenson will have to suffice.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I was saying we move DS for the PG
It’s probably not life or death (valid point), but I’d rather have Dixon than DS if that’s the rest of our team.
Dixon's gone
The Wiz will not have enough roster spots to keep Dixon if they sign their 1st round draft pick….
If they trade 2 for 1 to get Hughes, that might free up a slot for Juan, IF the Wizards get rid of their 2nd round pick this year….
So, you want to keep Juan? Or keep a high 2nd Round pick?
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
It's a big "if"
and if he’s not going to get burn we’re better off having a pure(-r) PG. Whether he bounces back or not he’s going to be behind Hughes and Young, so until Larry gets hurt it’s irrelevant. We can also give Caron and Dominic minutes at SG if needed, and that helps doubly since we have more bigs than we need.
I Think He Would Get Burn
I consider around 20 MPG good burn. And with Hughes’s scoring added to the mix, there will be less pressure on DeShawn to create his own shot. Add to that his chemistry with Gil and a healthy back, then I don’t think him returning to form is that far out of the question.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
I get what you're saying, I just don't see 20MPG there...
…unless there’s an injury. If there is we’re better off with a backup PG (which, IMO, ain’t DeShawn).
What is Wrong With Crittenton?
Is he not a viable backup PG, in your opinion?
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
I'm not advocating Stevenson be awarded the Starting PG spot
Only that , with Gilbert Arenas and Javaris Crittenton, you have a Very Good starter and a good backup. You only need to have another guy in an emergency; and DeShawn has shown that he can play the Point in an emergency.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I don't get it
I don’t understand what Chicago’s motivation would be for this trade. They would still have an overload at guard if they get James, and don’t all 3 of the contracts expire after next year? I would much prefer Hughes to James and clearing out a roster spot by including Etan is a bonus. So I’m all for it.
The trade may be larger than just Thomas/James for Hughes
or this is the best deal Chicago can get…..
or perhaps there’s a 3rd team involved.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
It is Easier
To package two smaller contracts than one big one. See my comment in this thread.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Another indication that Hughes is about to be traded
He has been placed on the Inactive List by the Chicago Bulls. He has not played since January 13th, recording 13 consecutive DNP-CD’s.
Sounds like some GM out there didn’t want Larry injured before he could trade for him… It also makes cupettcj’s theory (Ernie Grunfeld has already worked out a Thomas/James for Hughes trade and was only waiting the required 60-days) seem more likely….
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I'm ok with having Larry Hughes return
But is he really the final piece they need to get over the hump? I doubt it.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Larry’s game when he played here. Liked his personality. He was a genuinely nice person. He has said some things that indicate that he made a mistake leaving Washington; and I believe he would be ecstatic to be a Wizard again. The chemistry will work because Arenas and Jamison obviously like Larry.
So where’s the downside?
Those expiring contracts . $14 Million in expiring contracts for Etan Thomas and Mike James. Those contracts should be worth much more, if the Wizards would be willing to wait until this time next year. By the trade deadline next year, there will be a ton of teams that will either want to get under the Luxury Tax; or go after the coveted 2010 Free Agents. Those teams would be willing to give up prime assets (read: quality players, draft picks, etc…) for those expiring contracts.
The other thing that bothers me: If Ernie trades for Hughes, is he admitting that he made a mistake letting him go to Cleveland in 2005? I mean, he didn’t want to pay Larry big bucks in 2005, why now? He certainly has not become a better player.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
i think Grunfeld didn't want to give the big money/length of the contract
four years later, the contract is palpable… i’m well known to be a hughes supporter- i’d love this deal
'he nails an open three from the corner....just like you and me, this one was made by penetration' - Truthaboutit - Round 1 Game 5 Recap
by KD Drummond on Feb 10, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
I guess...
Still, Hughes’ contract ends at the same time as James/Thomas’ – so if he wants to, Ernie can still use Larry’s expiring contract in a trade next year….
Perfect scenario? Trade Larry Hughes at next year’s trade deadline for a big strong young defensive Power Forward, and some picks… Then sign Larry back in the offf-season.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I like Hughes,
And was all for bringing him back when this first came up a few months ago. However, I think he and Stevenson might be redundant – obviously Hughes is a better player, but by how much now, assuming decent health for both? Not sure I would do this if we can’t get rid of Stevenson somehow.
"a crab dribble is when you travel" - caron butler
by little stevie colter on Feb 10, 2009 12:58 PM EST reply actions
If DeShawn...
… can recover his health and his swagger, and get back to “Mr. Fifty” (50% FG, 40 3P%) like he was when he first came to town, then he would be an excellent guard off the bench for the Wizards for about 20 MPG. Having him, Young, and Crittenton on the roster would assure the next coach of the Wizards of not having to overwork his starting guards. After Gil’s knee injury, he may not be willing/able to play 40 MPG night in and night out anymore.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Plus
With Hughes’s history of injuries, it may not be a bad idea to have a durable, solid SG on the roster if something bad happens. Yes, I still think DeShawn is durable. If this season was not a lost cause, he would still be playing.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Agreed completely
Larry’s probably going to be a lot less injury prone if he’s not playing 35 minutes a game (I’d still want him to wear a full-body foam suit, though just to be safe), and he can play the one and two in a pinch, and even slide down to the three if we go small.
Also, he’s an upgrade over Mike James, and getting rid of Etan would get rid of our 4/5 logjam (at least when we’re healthy and if we draft a big guy this year). I’d think, though, that to actually make this worthwhile for Chicago, we’d have to throw in a second round pick or two, which I wouldn’t really mind.
by pantslessyoda1 on Feb 10, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent Article
I think this has been linked to before, but I think now is a good time to resurrect it. This article does an excellent job of breaking down how Larry Hughes ended up in Cleveland, and how Ernie Grunfeld got burned in the negotiations.
This gives great insight into why Ernie is still pursuing Larry after all of these years. Larry was the big fish that got away, Ernie has always regretted it, and now he can get him back for nothing more than a pair of overpaid has-beens. True, those overpaid has-beens might be more valuable to another team next season, but Ernie tends to become obsessed with players he likes. Look at how he pursued Crittenton. Now he has a chance to put together a “Big 4” set of players. Sidenote – with Brendan being the 5th player, and his value becoming so evident this season, should we refer to the potential lineup as a “Big 5” or “Fab 5”?
Will it work? I’m not sure, but there is always the possibility that Ernie can add another player in the offseason, and there is still the chance that the Wizards get the #1 overall pick. How about this lineup?
C – Haywood, Blatche, McGee
PF – Jamison, Griffin, Songaila, Blatche, Pecherov
SF – Butler, McGuire, Songaila
SG – Hughes, Young, DeShawn
PG – Gilbert, Crittenton
It could work… maybe.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
I don't see how Grunfeld got "burned"
He negotiated shrewdly with an injury prone player and moved on when he couldn’t get things done on his terms.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It Dot Net
Did You Read the Article?
It doesn’t explicitly say that Ernie felt he got “burned”, but then why did he come back and raise Cleveland’s offer after Larry had already agreed in principle to it? Here are some striking quotes from that article:
Hughes’s salary opens at $10.3 million, and he can earn $10 million in bonuses over the length of the deal based on the team’s victory totals, boosting its potential value to $70 million.
…
The day after Hughes reached an agreement in principle with Cleveland, Grunfeld called with his final offer: $72 million over six years. Wechsler and Hughes each informed him it was too late.
So Ernie low-balled Larry initially, then Cleveland upped the ante. If Ernie was content to “move on when he couldn’t get things done on his terms,” then why did he desperately try to snatch him back by offering $2 million more to keep him? Larry walked away not because Cleveland offered him more money, but because he felt insulted that Ernie tried to play hardball. You may not have thought Larry was worth it, but clearly Ernie did. If Ernie only thought of Larry as an “injury prone” player, then he wouldn’t have offered 6 years for $72 million ($2 million more than Cleveland offered).
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
The contract with Cleveland was 5 years, our offer was for 6.
That may have been the difference.
I’d bet that if Grunfeld was giving that money (or even $70) over 5 years, Hughes would have stayed a Wizard.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It Dot Net
Depends
$10 million of Cleveland’s offer was bonus-based (non-guaranteed). I’m assuming that Ernie’s offer was guaranteed.
Which would you rather have – a 5 year contract making $12 million a year with the possibility you might make an additional $10 million, or a 6 year deal where you are guaranteed to make $12 million a year, regardless of performance? Ernie’s was the better deal, but Larry told him it was too late. Ernie was guaranteeing more money. If it was about the money, Larry would still be a Wizard.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Side Note: What A Jerk
From the Daily Herald Link (writer of the blog):
Mike McGraw has covered the Bulls since 1995, becoming the full-time beat writer in 1999. He is still haunted by memories of the 1973 Game 7 collapse against the Lakers, Rick Barry and Lionel Hollins. The passion wasn’t quite the same during the championship era, but he does appreciate having a good seat at the Delta Center for Michael Jordan’s final shot with the Bulls in 1998.
You mean this a-hole was in Chicago for all six championships, covering the Bulls for three, and is still “haunted” by memories from 19-effing-73?
Slap me upside the head if the Wizards ever get six titles and I’m still bitching about being “haunted” by the Curse O’ Les Boulez.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It Dot Net
i don't have a problem...
picking up Hughes, but last time I checked they are still a 11 win team. Healthy Gil, Haywood and the #1 or #2 pick, then maybe this gets us to the conference finals and past bron bron and the cavs. otherwise we’ve got bigger fish to fry!
I see no point to this trade. Hughes is no good anymore
It’s been four years since he was last decent. It’s not a negative, but it doesn’t do anything other than adding another stumbling block in front of Nick Young. It seems like making a move for PR reasons.
(Though it helps remove blocks for Javaris and Etan).
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Even if it is just to clear room for those guys
I think I’m fine with it. And I think Larry would play better in this environment than he would in Chicago. But I wish if that was what he was trying to do he hadn’t fired Eddie.
I gotta point out that Hughes is not the player he once was
Too many injuries. Too many years.
I love Larry; love his game; but let’s face it, he’s not worth $14 Million dollars.
I keep saying that those two expiring contracts (Etan and Mike James) will be worth much more than Larry Hughes next year.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Neither Does Mike Jones
See the update above.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Another Update
Though rumors continue to swirl about a possible trade that would send James and Thomas as part of a package for former Wizard Larry Hughes prior to the Feb. 19 trade deadline, a league source familiar with the situation said it likely will not happen.
In October, the Wizards and Bulls were close to agreeing to a deal that would have swapped Hughes for Thomas and Antonio Daniels, who was later traded to New Orleans, but that deal fell apart when Hughes was injured.
Ivan Carter in today’s Washington Post.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
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