Smoke and mirrors: Flip Saunders wants Gilbert Arenas to play more up-tempo
by Mike Prada on Dec 9, 2009 1:31 PM EST
in Coaching
29 comments
I missed practice yesterday, but according to Michael Lee, Flip Saunders had a message for Gilbert Arenas.
"We haven't had as much of a thrust with the ball," Saunders said. "We want [Arenas]to be aggressive with the ball, whether it's scoring or distributing, but we cannot walk the ball up the court. That's something we've really been trying to work on, from the beginning of training camp. If there is a miss, we shouldn't be in any sort of set play. We haven't done as a good a job as we need to."
*snip*
"Right now, we're trying to get a better thrust with the ball and trying to get more open-floor opportunities," Saunders said. "I'm usually trying to wave my arm to get him to tell [Arenas] to run faster. It's one of those things, we had more of an emphasis of trying to get out and get some easier buckets."
This all sounds very good. Right now, our half-court offense isn't working, so getting transition points is key to improving the overall output we have on the offensive end.
But I'm taking this with a huge grain of salt. Why? Flip Saunders-coached teams aren't running teams. His Minnesota teams were all over the map in terms of pace, but check out the pace ratings of his recent Detroit clubs.
Yeesh. I don't know how else to put this, but Saunders comments sure sound like he's paying lip service rather than trying to send a message to Gilbert. Yes, you can see him motioning for Gilbert and the other point guards to push the ball, but it's understandable for Arenas to want to pull back and focus on executing the half-court offense when that strategy is so ingrained in Saunders' way of thinking.
I realize that pace isn't fully synonymous with "pushing the ball." There are several teams who get a lot of fast-break points, but sit near the bottom of the league in pace (e.g. Oklahoma City, Atlanta, Philadelphia). However, if you ever watched those Detroit teams, you'd realize that they were slow-paced because they never ran no matter what, not because they would run occasionally and milk the clock in the halfcourt otherwise. Flip Saunders is a very good coach, but he's one of the last coaches on earth that you'd want if you were hoping to fast-break all the time.
I'll happily wait for Saunders to prove me wrong and employ a faster-paced strategy, but history isn't on his side. I for one am not expecting Arenas to change his ways much anytime soon on this front.
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Well put
Rather than increasing the pressure on Arenas to execute, he ought to be relieving it until his confidence returns.
On a related point, Foye has been very aggressive in the first half of the last two games and has played well, but got no burn in the second halves.
Flip is either mis-reading the tea leafs or he is very stubborn. I don’t see anybody winning in the currrent dynamic.
Because Foye is not starting
Young is getting burn in the 1st quarter… Foye in part of the 2nd quarter.. Young gets most of the 3rd quarter .. then Boykins comes in to finish the game…
That’s been Flip’s rotation since Boykins was acquired; and to Mike Prada’s point, it’s not necessarily a winning formula for the long term.
Boykins and Foye should share the 15-18 minutes available at PG when Arenas is on the bench… Young should be getting starter minutes (30 per game) with Foye soaking up the remaining 18 at SG.
That gives Arenas 35 minutes… Young 30, Foye 20-25 and Boykins 8-10 minutes..
At some point, when Boykins comes back down to earth, Flip will realize that Boykins is not a long term solution – and go back to a “normal” rotation.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Sorry — I want to see Foye succeed as much as the next guy, since if he doesn’t, the trade last draft will prove disastrous. I also have my doubts about putting the ball in Boykins hands all the time in the 4th quarter. But no way that Foye should be taking away most of Boykins minutes. Boykins has been outperforming Foye by a huge margin.
I have to agree
Boykins pretty much earned those minutes since he was the only guard with a " pulse " during our losing streak. Gil is still going through the motions and thusly that leaves Earl to run the point. When Gil figures out everything is when this team turns the corner.
I would like to see Mike Miller, when he returns healthy, take a lot of Earl's minutes
But I agree that Foye really hasn’t earned a lions share of Boykins’ minutes. Maybe some – I’d like to see Flip adjust to situations and sometimes give Foye stretch minutes, like in Detroit – but Boykins certainly deserves backup point minutes right now (10-15 minutes).
Unfortunately, I think Miller’s going to take Nick Young’s minutes instead.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
This is good to see
considering our next game is against Boston. We can beat them by being more athletic and up tempo, we will NOT win this game dueling them in the half-court.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
Playing Boston
is like playing " Old School " on the blacktop. Whatever it takes grabbing, tugging or a paul pirece kick to the groin while driving. I would like to see us open it up as well. I always figured that’s what EG was building this line up for. 7 seconds or less may be a little excessive how about……12.
If that's what Ernie was building the lineup for, he should have hired a different coach that fit the personnel better
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Yes
Which is what drives me nuts. That was what EJ wanted, and he got players who didn’t fit his system. Now we have Flip, and a bunch of square pegs for round holes.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
I actually think Ernie envisioned this being a half-court team
Obviously he was relying on Gilbert to transition a bit, but the rest of this team certainly has potential to succeed in the halfcourt.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
True, which is why I think Ernie and Jordan were never on the same page
This is a thought – could we be seeing what happened to the Suns last year happening to the Wizards. In no way do I see I think Terry Porter = Flip, but the scuttlebutt at the time was that the Suns traded for Shaq and started running Porter’s system to protect Nash’s health.
A year later, the Suns are back to doing what they do best. As I think you pointed out Mike, without Gil we played at a much slower pace. But our successful years have come when playing a more up tempo style. I dunno….thoughts?
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
They did play pretty slow-paced in 07/08 without Gilbert, and did it successfully
I think this is different than Porter simply because Saunders’ track record is exponentially better than Porter’s. Porter literally had no clout on that team.
I actually think Flip would have been a great fit in Phoenix for that reason.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
though I do think he shot for that by drafting Pech and Blatche
which make the Songalia signing more confusing.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
Okay Mike
you have far more access to Flip than I do which probably gives you a better read of the guy but do you really see him as this old dog that can’t learn a new trick. You use the detroit stat of them not running , which a very telling stat. Detroit roster at the time Flip was there was built for the half court. There wasn’t a slasher in the group. I still believe that Ernie hired Flip because of his track record of success and his propensity at making the play offs more so than anything else.
Flip had an idea when he came to town about what vision he had for this team. That vision as we are observing has some flaws. I still believe Flip has it in him to find a winning formula.
by ccrun1800 on Dec 9, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Coaches tend to stick with what's worked for them
They don’t just completely change philosophies. They certainly bend some things, but the general rule is you have core principles you don’t alter. It is my feeling that pace is one of Saunders’ core principles. We’ll see, though.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
flip
likes to keep opponent’s field goal percentage down, limit turnovers, and win rebounding, right?
that’s all good. i think he can tweak what he’s doing and still focus on those things.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 9, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
To Expand On This
Because I think ccrun is on to something. You admitted that Flip’s pace rankings in Minny were all over the place, Mike, but then you seem to want to nail him down by what he did in Detroit. Isn’t it possible that Flip wants to push the ball when he has dynamic guys who can finish well in transition, but didn’t emphasize that in Detroit because he lacked the personnel? Aren’t really good coaches capable of adjusting their gameplans based upon who they have on the floor? To suggest that Flip can’t run because he didn’t in Detroit is to underestimate his abilities as a coach, IMO.
Between 1997-1999, when Flip had Starbury running the point, Minnesota was 4th and 5th in the league in pace, respectively. That’s not exactly a model of slow-paced, grind-it-out offense. Overall in Minnesota, Flip’s teams were almost always in the top half of the league in pace. So where do you get this idea that Flip can’t coach running teams? I don’t get it.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
I hope you're right
It’s a good point – he did push in Minny primarily when he had Marbury, who could do it.
I guess I’m just worried he’s so far removed from those days that it won’t change. But we’ll see.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Maybe He Was At First
Maybe Flip initially wanted to remake this team into the Detroit Pistons 2.0. But then he realized that so many of his players were underperforming, and now he is trying to adjust his strategy. Let’s not forget that when this team was at its best, Gil himself dubbed them the “Phoenix Suns of the East”. It appears to me that when the Big 3 are not scoring easy buckets in transition, they then lack the confidence on their jump-shots. Pushing the pace might snap the Big 3 out of their current funk.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Sounds like a game for Oberto
I hope to see him flopping on Sheed and making Sheed get himself tossed.
by Manimal Smith on Dec 10, 2009 2:41 AM EST up reply actions
It could be...
…that Saunders is trying to encourage Gil to do something that was one of Gil’s strengths pre-injury. No one in the league changed his team’s pace more than Gil did in his last few seasons — he made the Wizards MUCH faster.
I think that is what it is
I just doubt it’ll happen based on Saunders’ track record.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
basically
flip is just trying something to snap gil out of being so passive. trick him into being assertive and aggressive
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 9, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
and
maybe also to combat the slow starts.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 9, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
Post-injury Gil
doesn’t have the confidence in his game or the handles to dominate games as he once did by speeding the pace . If he could still do it, Earl Boykins wouldn’t look like the best PG on the team right now.
The very first comment by Izman put it best:
Flip is either mis-reading the tea leafs or he is very stubborn. I don’t see anybody winning in the currrent dynamic.
he's trying to get gil back to that point
we kind of really need him to be
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 10, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
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