Pistons 98, Wizards 94
by JakeTheSnake on Dec 6, 2009 8:43 PM EST
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107 comments
Don't blame Flip Saunders for yelling. If your team just committed 17 turnovers and only had 15 assists against the team that fired you, you would probably be a little upset too.
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Flip better be having these guys
run windsprints til 3AM tomorrow
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 8:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Anything to make them feel the way we all feel, and anyone that gave a damn about this team would feel
Which is mad as hell and not taking it anymore, ready to bust ass to prove yourself the next game
by morethesamewiz on Dec 6, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
the players themselves probably don’t care. Heck, I doubt they even noticed that they lost. Yeah, we fans feel it way more than they do. Best idea is to punish them like 3 year olds.
by MR on Dec 6, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think Boston
would have been laughing on the bench if they were down by 9 to Detroit. I think not.
For me this goes beyond the numbers. With very few exceptions, everyone is playing lax, we aren’t diving for balls, and we just seem to turtle in the 3rd quarter.
I place a lot of this squarely on the Tri-Captains. When Phoenix was getting blown out by Cleveland the other night, Nash was still high fiving the scrubs after good plays and seemed involved in the game. The Wiz seem to want to be doing anything but playing basketball.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why does he play stevenson?
Why? Seriously why?
by ccrun1800 on Dec 6, 2009 8:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think the ideas
was that good defense and hustle would lead to turnovers and ratcheted up intensity.
Unfortunately, DeShawn (and this is unlike him) played some lazy ass basketball.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why can't we get shots in the half court?
Especially when we have 3 multiple-time all stars who were all stars SOLELY because of offense.
How could this team be SO bad even when Blatche has arrived and Haywood is playing about as well as he can? Did anyone think that we would be bad for this reason?
by Manimal Smith on Dec 6, 2009 8:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
any of the Big 3 are operating well in this system. Haywood and the reserves look like they have a great handle on it, but Butler, AJ and Gil look completely lost.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think part of it is the expectations for arenas
everyone thought ‘if he’s healthy then it’s on!’ but it’s not that easy, even though he appears to be healthy.
"how ironic - you came here with a mouse in a bottle, now YOU are the mouse in the bottle" - B.M. Smith
by little stevie colter on Dec 6, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
true
you could give Gil a pass. But that doesn’t excuse the other two players for performing so terribly. What drives me nuts is that it seems that everyone checked their basketball IQs at the door
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
After tonight's game, I think one of the Big 3 needs to get traded so that the other two can get more freedom
Gil’s not going anywhere and Antawn’s 33. That leaves Caron.
Caron for Battier/Lowry? I’d do it immediately.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what about Portland
do they make a move for Caron now that Oden is done?
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who do they trade?
Most of their nice young guys are injured (Oden, Outlaw, Batum)
by Manimal Smith on Dec 6, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ah, I forgot Outlaw was injured
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's too bad, because Portland would be a very good trade partner
Maybe something like Caron and Stevenson for Andre Miller, Rudy Fernandez and an injured Outlaw (expiring)?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where do I sign up for that?
I’d even like to re sign outlaw which is easier because he is currently injured.
Thats a great trade.
by Manimal Smith on Dec 6, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Patty Mills too?
Another PG prospect who is cheap and Portland might be willing to throw in in lieu of a pick?
by Manimal Smith on Dec 6, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
See my fan post
Where we can brain storm this more
by Manimal Smith on Dec 6, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
At least with Battier, we could count on him and Haywood
night in and night out
by morethesamewiz on Dec 6, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
nah - they'd just end up fighting
duke v. UNC.
"how ironic - you came here with a mouse in a bottle, now YOU are the mouse in the bottle" - B.M. Smith
by little stevie colter on Dec 6, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
all the little things
that no one but Haywood provides
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The best perimeter defender in basketball
An unselfish guy who will run the system. A great deep shooter.
Seems like exactly what we need.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But he cant make his own shot
What PG is going to set him up?
by ccrun1800 on Dec 6, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gilbert can pass
He sets people up fine. For the most part. Plus, Miller’s a very good passer.
We have to stop thinking that Gilbert’s the only guy that’s supposed to set people up. It’s a team issue.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How many people do you want on the priemter
Gil, Jamison Battier and whoever is the SG. This team just needs to play better. Thats just changing for the sake of changing.
by ccrun1800 on Dec 6, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I strongly disagree
You’re trading an offense-first guy for two great defenders for their position (Battier, Lowry). You’re trading a guy who needs shots for one who doesn’t. You’re trading for a guy who can run our second team and can play with Gilbert in the fourth quarter.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Change for the sake of change would be trading Caron for someone like Al Harrington
Or someone else who plays like him.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Charlie V
for example
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude caron plays awesome for four years
He plays bad for what not even 20 games and hes gone. Seriously?
by ccrun1800 on Dec 6, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He played great in the Princeton
It was a great offense for him. I’m not sure this one is. 20 games says – hell no.
I appreciate the need for patience, but we’re just reaching the 20-game mark and this team doesn’t seem like it’s coming together at all.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So change the offense.
Find a system that incorporates what this team does well. I despise trading players to fit an offensive system. Its like we are assuming flips offense set in stone
by ccrun1800 on Dec 6, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Coaches don't change systems when it's worked so well for so many years in other places
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then they are bad coaches
In every sport good coaches make changes to suit there team. Look at the UMD team playing w/o a big man last year. Gary still ran the flex with some success. Look at the skins this year new coach calling the plays, same personal and voila the skins offense actually looks decent. Flip carries just as much blame as the players do. It’s his job to make this team win not play his system.
by ccrun1800 on Dec 6, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then you could actually place the blame
more squarely on the shoulders of EG. Because it would mark the second time that he did not give his coach the players he needed to work the system
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Flip isn't the one who keeps
losing his concentration during games. Sloppy play has never been a hallmark of his teams. So some player movement might help
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
play better?
something isn’t working and it is obviously the dynamic. They don’t have any flow to their game at all.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd want something more than that for Butler
His contract is too good for what he is, in theory.
Battier, Lowry and something else for Butler and Stevenson (at least we can get cap relief).
by Manimal Smith on Dec 6, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stevenson for Brian Cook's expiring contract, maybe?
Then we get cap relief.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd cringe, but do it
No way Morey gives us a pick too
by Manimal Smith on Dec 6, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i was just thinking this
trying to put my gm hat on.
by Knowledge92 on Dec 6, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not even really giving gilbert a pass
just reviewing why i was so optimistic earlier.
and true – the team doesn’t play smart at all. but you can still hustle, and not let the other team get a crapload of offensive rebounds.
also, mike miller. the team has looked soooo much better with him in.
"how ironic - you came here with a mouse in a bottle, now YOU are the mouse in the bottle" - B.M. Smith
by little stevie colter on Dec 6, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's weird, isn't it?
Impossible to predict if you think about it.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mike
do you have any insight into the lack of energy? I think that is what drove everyone up the wall tonight. They look like they just don’t care.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm at my house in Bethesda, not in Detroit
I dunno, I don’t like blaming things on energy. If they hit early shots, they feel better about themselves. Maybe that’s the problem.
I’m guessing that they’re probably still playing too robotically more than anything. Flip seems like the type of guy who will say what they’re doing wrong scheme-wise more than anything. Maybe that’s the problem.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bethesda is better than Detroit
sorry, I meant during practices and such (if you have attended)…are they still performing with the same energy as in preseason?
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, I see
I don’t see them running sets or anything at practice … when they let us in, they’re shooting free throws.
Flip says it all the time – this team plays energetic (whatever that means) when they’re hitting shots. That’s a mentality that’s tough to erase, I guess.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if that is the case
why the hell is he yanking Foye out of the game?
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure why Foye isn't playing in the fourth
In theory, he’s exactly the type of player that plays well with Gilbert.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Caron plays D
Not sure it’s fair to class Butler with the other Big Three as far as being “solely offense,” when Butler wants to he can be a lock down defender.
by GvP on Dec 7, 2009 5:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He looks the part
but I’m not sure that he has ever really been a defensive presence.
He definitely has more of that stopper crouch though.
by Manimal Smith on Dec 7, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He never has been his entire career
This is literally the first year he ever cared about defense.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 7, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Last year's Indiana "Dagger" game was one example
Butler will be best known for his game-winning shot over Granger last season, but Caron’s fourth-quarter defense in that game granted the game-winning shot.
It’s rather silly, Mike, for you to suggest this is the first year Caron has cared about defense. You’ve covered, or I assume you’ve covered, Caron for longer than that.
Either way, when we’re talking the now, this season, it’s clear Butler is not performing the way the media or the fans expected him to play so far; in my opinion, he seemed more focused last season than this season, and the Wizards will need more out of him and Gil — mainly better looks at the basket and higher percentage shots. I still think outing Caron is premature at this point, although it’s becoming more fair every day as we approach #21.
by GvP on Dec 7, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I took my girlfriend to that game
and bought her a Caron jersey before hand. Now she is decimated by the idea that I am in favor of trading him ;P
by Manimal Smith on Dec 7, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's true
It’s rather silly, Mike, for you to suggest this is the first year Caron has cared about defense. You’ve covered, or I assume you’ve covered, Caron for longer than that.
Come again? You’re actually going to sit here and tell me Caron Butler has been a good defensive player?
Caron has always been a terrible defender. I urge you to watch old games more closely. Then, the ball-watching, the gambling, the inability to stay in front of people, the lack of strength, the unbelievable ability of all the guys he’s guarding to get open threes, etc will become evident.
You do realize Butler’s man in that game, Danny Granger, had 29 points on 15 shots, right?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 7, 2009 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Check out the play-by-play
Butler gave up more like 19-21 points per match-up; fouled Granger once for shots, and Granger made a three when Butler was on the bench. Boxscores don’t tell the whole game, and I’m not sure why that’s your reference unless you didn’t watch the game — a play-by-play isn’t perfect but it is the best we have for sake of argument unless there are some replays available. I’m mainly going on memory. It’s too bad Media Central doesn’t have tape.
http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=290208027&period=4
Anyway, back to the fourth quarter, the 15-footer by Granger in the fourth did hurt. However, there isn’t too much anyone in this league can do when Granger is 22-25 feet out except deny the ball in the first place (Granger had 7 points in the fourth, the 15-footer, a 22-footer, and a three pointer; Granger gave up 15 points to Butler in the fourth).
During Butler’s fourth quarter spree he made a crucial steal while guarding T.J. Ford in the final two minutes, and the turnover led to a Caron bucket. Probably not enough evidence for you to change your verdict on the man, given Granger was still scoring at the end, but the steal contributed to the Wizards win via that buzzer-beating shot, which, without the steal, could have been a shot that only tied the game to force overtime. Who knows with what-ifs.
For the sake of the Wizards, I hope Butler’s play will help prove skeptics wrong during the West Coast swing coming up, but should he get traded, I definitely like the prospect of Gerald Wallace, even though it’s very unlikely Charlotte would get rid of their franchise player. I remember watching Wallace play third string on the bench in Sacramento and I’ve wondered at times if Nick Young or JaVale McGee might sprout as a franchise player for some other team in the future, however, Young seems to finally have his chance now to prove his immediate worth. Not so much against Detroit, of course.
by GvP on Dec 8, 2009 1:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
19-21 points per matchup ain't good
So basically, Granger scored nearly all his points on Butler. Not sure how that helps your argument.
And it’s not how many you score, but how you do it. Granger is going to get points, but when he gets that many on that few shots, then you’ve really failed as a defender. That’s what makes guys like Battier so good — he doesn’t foul and contests everything. Guys score a lot on him sometimes, but they have to use a lot of possessions to do so.
Besides, there’s literally a three-season sample of games of bad defense by Caron that counteract one good defensive play.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 8, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How can they???
See a man that loved this team and the city so much pass away with his dying wish of a championship unfulfilled, and still fail to find passion or motivation. It is sickening. The only way you lose with three allstars and a should-be-all-defensive center to a team led by Ben Gordon and Rodney Stuckey is if you don’t show up to play.
by morethesamewiz on Dec 6, 2009 8:53 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
I really don't understand the Detroit hate
Yeah, no Prince or Rip, but no one has even said a word about Daye or Villanueva, two guys Washington couldn’t guard last night. For those who didn’t catch the Las Vegas Summer League, Detroit has a pretty deep bench.
by GvP on Dec 7, 2009 5:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And thats what burns me up more than anything
is the inconsistent amount of effort this team brings every day. This team could be .500 on hustle alone but they dont even do that well. I am sorry but this begins an end with Gilbert. If the highest paid player on the team is busting his ass then everybody on down the chain will be doing the same.
by ccrun1800 on Dec 7, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bright side
Kwame looked great tonight!
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 8:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
My wall called.
It wants the hole i just punched through it repaired.
by Knowledge92 on Dec 6, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Coaching
How can you not blame Flip. Gilbert started out looking great and was completely thrown off his game by some very strange substitutions. I don’t think Gil played more than 7 minutes at a time and never got in a groove. He also needs to move Stevenson to last off the bench. The guy should not even be in the NBA. Flit has completely destroyed the confidence of Nick Y, who SB playing a lot more.
by laxdog on Dec 6, 2009 8:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
in defense of Flip
Young sucked tonight. He kept breaking the offense and biting terribly on defense
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am really just flummoxed
I never thought that we’d be bad for this reason. I just can’t get over it.
by Manimal Smith on Dec 6, 2009 8:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm just confused as to why our stars stink
Like, what the heck is going on with Caron? I expected Arenas to struggle a bit, but what’s Caron’s deal?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Caron has always taken contested jumpers
and played with pretty low basketball iq. He’s looked good over the past two seasons because he got the ball more with arenas out.
by Knowledge92 on Dec 6, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He improved his efficiency though
In 08 in particular.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
teams have adjusted to him and he hasn’t changed his game. It is a nightly occurrence to see the “Caron Charge.”
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well....
It is a nightly occurrence to see the "Caron Charge."
At least we have something we can go to with some consistency.
Right, guys?
by Hoopalotta on Dec 6, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
last night's
was a bad call.
but it is frustrating.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 7, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
first qtr
Let gil go off for one. Let them just play BB. If he put up 15, he would stop the BS robo play. Flip is just not a good fit for these players.
by laxdog on Dec 6, 2009 9:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well what if anything can Flip do to right this ship?
by morethesamewiz on Dec 6, 2009 9:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Getting Miller back will help a lot
I figured we’d struggle without him. He immediately takes Boykins’ fourth-quarter minutes, moves the ball, hits open shots, etc.
Put the ball in Gilbert’s hands in the fourth quarter. Whether he’s with a PG who will bring the ball up or not doesn’t matter. Put shooters around him so he has more room. Tell him that it’s his job to win games in the fourth.
Those are two things I’d do.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I worry that Boykins has merely given Arenas
the opportunity to delegate the fourth quarter heroics to him and avoid the risk of trying to win games himself and be blamed if the Wizards lose under his leadership
by morethesamewiz on Dec 6, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boykins is the best player on the Wizards for his ability to create, score, limit turnovers, and close games. He’s also the only consistent Wizard besides Haywood. Boykins gets major minutes because Arenas is no playing well. It’s by default, not design. Oh, and Arenas plays poor defense, and is a liability down the stretch.
You can’t blame coaching at this point. The shooting guard position is infuriating because these guys won’t play consistently. Rotations are not that big of a deal compared to the poor openings, lat game breakdowns, and turnovers. A stagnant offense may be caused by bad rotations, though.
I just think it will take time, but I agree that the big three just simply are not top tier guys who can create (besides a healthier Arenas down the road) and make their teammates better. so, the team doesn’t have an identity. When you combine them with two other pure scorers off the bench with Young and Foye, who the heck can run the O?
by oatmealeater on Dec 6, 2009 9:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Boykins isn't going to get us deep in the playoffs
Our only hope is for our stars to step up their games, and that is more likely to happen if they fail early on but come together by January, than if Boykins gives them an excuse to sit back and watch him play.
by morethesamewiz on Dec 6, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a distraction and diversion
from the real work that needs to be done if we are to turn this team into a late-blooming contender as we all hope. We need to lose at our stars hands now and hopefully win at their hands in January, February, March…
by morethesamewiz on Dec 6, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, Boykins has answered a call that no Other Wizard will. If Boykins is your best player, or at least your most efficient/best closer your team definitely has challenges.
by oatmealeater on Dec 6, 2009 9:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Boykins creates by pounding and pounding and pounding
That’s not conducive to good offense. The ball just stops moving with him in there.
He helps, again, because he pushes the ball, not because of his ability to create in the half court.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
that the ball dies with him. Even if I agreed, it STILL would mean he’s running better point than Gil at this point in the season. Gil takes very quick, questionable shots, and is prone to turning it over. I’d rather have Boykins in — as much as it pains me — because at least it’s dependable basketball. Arenas’ 4 seconds to a jacked three is totally painful to watch, and even worse is his complete ball-watching on defense. He can’t possibly play zone (I’m drifting here).
I’m seeing your point, as certainly Arenas’ deference to his teammates to create is not something that Boykins does, but I just feel like Boykins ability to be creative (he’s been successful at the pick-and-roll game) is reflective of his ability to grasp the offense, do what’s asked of him, and create when no one else can/will.
by oatmealeater on Dec 7, 2009 8:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also,
“…not because of his ability to create in the half court”? As I imply in my recent post, I think he’s been effective at the pick-n-roll game, especially in the 4th quarter — think Cavs game, Bucks game. He turned around two defenders in those games, and single-handedly won the Bucks game off of that. I do think he’s good in half court — compared to Arenas, of course.
by oatmealeater on Dec 7, 2009 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed mostly
I think that a lot of Boykins’ value comes from pushing the ball even if he creates what wouldn’t be called “transition baskets” that way.
It’s not quite true that he doesn’t create in the half court, but the way he creates in the half court is, as you say, by pounding the dribble and either making that last pass for a layup or open jumper or by taking a shot himself.
My scary question is – with all of the talk we have been hearing about how Flip’s offense demands a ball dominant PG, is there anyway that this is what he actually wants?
by Manimal Smith on Dec 7, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Based on how much the guy plays, I'd say yes
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 7, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its Sad to Say...
It’s sad to say, but besides a few games where Gil and/or Antwan have played good, last years team was actually way more fun to watch. Last year I wasn’t expecting wins, but looked forward to watching the young players mature. This year is just depressing because before every game i’m thinking we’re finally gonna put it together, and when they come out so bad, i can’t enjoy any of the game because of my expectations. Any of you guys feel the same?
by FNFWizardsFan on Dec 6, 2009 9:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
Last year we theoretically (Ed Tapscott had other plans) got to see what our bench was capable of, and although the losses mounted, it was fun to scout Young, McGee, McGuire,and Critt.
by morethesamewiz on Dec 6, 2009 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
whoa whoa whoa -
let’s not get carried away. last years team sucked supremely. and the young players made so many dumb plays it hurt. it’s simply a matter of expectations.
i see what you are saying, generally, but i will never support anything that puts a positive spin on last season. that was a wasted year of everyone’s prime.
"how ironic - you came here with a mouse in a bottle, now YOU are the mouse in the bottle" - B.M. Smith
by little stevie colter on Dec 6, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Last year, I had next season to look forward
I have lower expectations for next year (‘10-’11) than I had for (‘09-’10) last year
by morethesamewiz on Dec 6, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
It’s because our best players have peaked. It’s really hard to see this team getting significantly better with our best 4 players all being in or past their prime. The only hope is for one or more of the young guys to take a monumental leap forward and become the team’s best or second-best player.
Otherwise, we’re stuck hoping they’ll eventually get Flip’s system and success will breed confidence and get them going on a positive upward spiral. Every game that they lose kills a little more of that hope.
by steadyhand on Dec 7, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Same approach
Same result. That was eerie. Once again, the subs played better in the first half and got virtually no burn in the second half.
Foye missed a shot – and probably will be benched for a week.
AJ can take a million bad shots, and would never get benched.
Flip has dug in. But the players are drifting away. Even Blatche was smirking on the bench with about a minute to go. Who’s left in Flip’s camp?
by Izman on Dec 6, 2009 9:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I know that
but at least i came in to games thinkin, o well we are gonna lose but maybe we’ll see some good things also(McGee dunks and blocks, Nick Young catchin fire, etc.) But this year i’m so excited for the games, expecting us to win, or even blow em out, and then we come out so flat that it’s just really sad and boring. And then i’m so depressed and pissed about how they’re playing I can barely enjoy highlight plays. That’s all I was saying
by FNFWizardsFan on Dec 6, 2009 9:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Something needs to change
The offense is struggling, so why not switch the team philosophy to a defense-first mindset? Start Haywood at center, Oberto at PF or McGuire at SF (with Jamison taking the other frontcourt spot), and at least one more strong defender, and stress defense more than this team ever has. See where that takes you.
I have no idea whether that would work, but something big, not small, has to change.
by disgrunted on Dec 6, 2009 9:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
this is a interesting idea
Or at least calls into question why Oberto saw no playing time. After the 8 zillion tap outs, you think he might have wanted to go big.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd argue that's what they're doing already
Focusing on defense at the expense of the offense.
The problem really is on offense, not on D.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 9:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
then its on Flip
to start playing guys who can catch and shoot like Foye. Getting Miller back will help, but Caron and AJ just don’t seem to have the stroke to work the system as spacing shooters in Flip’s system..
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then we've really stepped through the looking glass
Although theoretically offense is easier to fix. Is it a good thing or bad thing that we might be pinning most of our hopes on Mike Miller’s return?
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Dec 7, 2009 9:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Very Bad Thing
Mike Miller is a very good player, but he’s no savior.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Dec 7, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It depends how you look at it
It’s bad in the sense that we need him that badly with all the other talent we thought we had, but it’s good in the sense that he looked like the MVP of this team before he went down. Getting him back could really help.
by steadyhand on Dec 7, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We need a starting PG
Im not putting everything on Gil but we have so many messy possesions
when we run into the 10 secs of the SC, Boykins has made some impact
but is not long term, If we are to trade Caron then lets go for a PG and get
Gil over SG.
by wuds100 on Dec 6, 2009 9:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think the messiest possessions come with Earl playing PG
We just get more easy buckets because he pushes the ball.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 6, 2009 9:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
which points to the fact
that the team as currently constructed is not a great halfcourt team. Bringing the ball up and dribbling around for 10 seconds wasn’t any of the Big 3 strengths. Getting the ball out in transition and letting AJ or Caron slash to the basket, with the option of Gil driving or pulling up for the jumper was what led to our success.
I am not going to call it a failure, but I just don’t see Arenas turning into Billups, it’s not his game.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jake, it might be time
to put the Festivus post up early.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
by ledellforlife on Dec 6, 2009 10:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wow
That takes me back. I might have to do something like that if this slump keeps up.
Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.
by JakeTheSnake on Dec 7, 2009 7:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
when's miller getting back?
"how ironic - you came here with a mouse in a bottle, now YOU are the mouse in the bottle" - B.M. Smith
by little stevie colter on Dec 6, 2009 10:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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