Indiana Pacers vs. Washington Wizards: Regular Season Game 21 Open Thread
by Mike Prada on Dec 12, 2009 5:23 PM EST
in Game Threads
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PrintIndiana Pacers at Washington Wizards, Dec 12, 2009 7:00 PM EST
The Essentials:
Pacers (7-13) vs. Wizards (7-13)
7:00 p.m.
Verizon Center
TV: CSN
Radio: 106.7 The Fan
Notable Pacers numbers this season
24th in expected winning percentage (.364)
2nd in pace (97.1 possessions per game)
26th in offensive efficiency/offensive rating (100.1)
9th in defensive efficiency/defensive rating (104.2)
Pre-game links
Indy Cornrows, SB Nation's Pacers Blog
Eight Points, Nine Seconds, an Indiana Pacers blog
Pacers Insider with Mike Wells, Indy Star
GameDay Pacers
| Tonight's Projected Starters | ||
|---|---|---|
| Pacers | vs. | Wizards |
| T.J. Ford |
PG | Gilbert Arenas |
| Brandon Rush |
SG | Nick Young DeShawn Stevenson |
| Dahntay Jones |
SF | Caron Butler |
| Troy Murphy |
PF | Antawn Jamison |
| Roy Hibbert |
C | Brendan Haywood |
I have a friend in town, so I'm going to tonight's game as fan (section 409), so no postgame quotes tonight. I'm also not immediately posting a postgame thread (Jake or Rook might, but not me).
Indiana is normally a bad team. They are now a bad team without their best player, Danny Granger, for an extended period of time. They are also a bad team that played last night in Indiana, while the Wizards didn't. There really are no excuses for a flat performance tonight.
Of course, it's worth noting that a) the Wizards have already lost to this team (with Granger, but without Troy Murphy) and b) the Pacers play a very odd style (fast-paced, but bad on offense and good on defense) that can be tough to deal with. Of course, talent needs to win out, so those aren't excuses. Get it done, guys.
GO WIZARDS!
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Flat,, for sure
This is exactly the type of game that the Wiz come out flat.
Meanwhile, Indiana will be grooming their young bigs, Tib and Hans.
This is the sort of game that McGee and Blatche should play a lot. But in this organization, not a prayer.
It always seems like any PG with any penetration abilities kills us
hoping not to be cursing TJ Ford as he goes for 20+ and 10 tonight.
Just made an update: DeShawn Stevenson starting over Nick Young
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.
Nick is still to inconsistent.
Has Randy sunk so far he can’t get a look with the starters?
by forthepeople on Dec 12, 2009 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
That's terrible news
It’s probably more about Young than anything Stevenson did. Still, if Young isn’t getting it done or needs to be benched, then start Foye. I’m beginning to wonder if I’ve overestimated Flip.
Also: Mike Dunleavy is back, he was out the last time.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.
I guess I'll go out on a limb
and say we will win this game conformably. Danny Granger is a top 10 player easily and he is out. Dunleavy is good, but is still playing restricted minutes, I thnk 20 a game.
Gil just needs to keep up the pace of the action and we will do fine.
If they're going to turn it around, it's now or never
This is as much of a must-win game as you can get at this point in the season. I think if they lose this game it’s all over.
Watching this team rebound with Haywood out of the lane is painful
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Why don't we value the ball
I thought this was the kind of stuff that was covered in AAU ball during there developmental years.
Very good offensive start...
The defense needs to get going a little. Doesn’t help refs are calling ticky tack fouls.
Intensity level is fairly low
Pick it up fellas! They’re the ones on the back-to-back.
Butler charge #1…
Mentally weak...on cue
They were walking off the court while Dunleavy hit that shot.
God Caron, shoot the damn three
He was wide open!!
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
The Wiz shot 71%
and we are up by two. This team has a special ways of doing things. Hopefully this works out for us
They were running Princeton sets for the first time all season
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Funny you mention the princeton
I watched the Sixers game when Iverson came back and they didn’t do the Princeton weave once.
This is horrible. Horrible transistion defense.
Horrible everything. They just let Indiana get into a good rhythm.
To be fair to Stevenson...
he wasn’t that bad in the opening moments of the game. Made something other than a three too.
Dont you love it when real life
vindicates you. How does Stevenson get off the bench. He really needs to stop jerking NY around. it has to be killing his confidence
he made a nice hustle play and threw a bad pass
Maybe we shouldn’t kill him when he just provided the only hustle play by the Wiz this quarter.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 12, 2009 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
Its not so much stevenson as it is Flip
Stevenson cant help the fact that he is a crappy ball player. Why though doesn’t Flip recognize this?
Flip uses Stevenson as a punishemnt
when he checks in it’s like he sent somebody else to their room without dinner
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 12, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
Haywood is the only guy on ths team willing to do the little things
And they’re just going to let him go after the season. Makes me so mad.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
stevenson's form
He didn’t always do that feminine-looking sideways fade when shooting, did he? It looks awful, as do the results.
Seriously as inconsistent as NY has been recently we should just give him the starting position and 25+ minutes a game till MM comes back and let him show he belongs.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 12, 2009 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
stopped watching
after gil left. I can’t wrap my head around this box score how the hell does this happen.
No effort
That’s how. There’s only a few players even putting in an acceptable level of effort. Everyone else looks like they want to play a game of h-o-r-s-e.
I hope Flip comes with a big shakeup
starting Foye or Blatche in the second half.
by forthepeople on Dec 12, 2009 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
Leave him in!
Let him get one more so we can see NY1. Realistically we’ll see Foye, but that’d be a horrible move tonight.
you can't be an old man and chear for this team
It’s maddening how they can just quit for a whole quarter then come out and play there a**es off.
I'm going to go mad screaming when they're on defense out of frustration...
and then screaming on offense out of pure joy. Yikes.
Funy thing abou this team
When things are going their way, they play harder. I wish they’d do it all the time.
Nick Young came in and provided some Defensive energy…..
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
NY, DMac, Blatche, Jamison = great energetic unit...
I wish Arenas was still in though instead of Boykins.
not quite a double digit lead but my prediction is quite on track. Now I hope I’m wrong about choking in the 4th
Hey flip, playus more
Love, Nick and Dominic
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Ha
I just logged on to say that Nick and Dom should start at SG and SF.
Hang on
Tough D, Smart shots,
Butler ankle sprain — didn’t look that bad though…
The Wizards' favorite fourth quarter play
“OK. You, the guy we just picked up on a 10 day contract, you dribble around as much as you want, and then shoot or pass to someone with 4 seconds left on the shot clock. And you, with the $111 million contract, just stand off to the side out of the way behind the three point line.”
What is Arenas doing??
Has he completely lost his mind??
What's Happening?
My online pirate cable froze a split second after Arenas grabbed his 10th rebound for the triple double and caron went down! What did I miss? What did I miss?
Our offensive strategy
Seems to be to give it to Boykins and stand around and hope he makes a play. What’s even crazier is that it’s working.
Two shots coming
Foul with .1 left. Tied now, but one more free throw coming.
Speechless
I don’t know what to say. I don’t think I have been this mad after a game since LeBron traveled 2 times in the playoffs.
If that’s the play Flip drew up, he should be fired.
If McGee broke the play for that mess, he should be benched until February.
because he is the best leaper in the NBA
And you have to tap it in. Made perfect sense actually
by Manimal Smith on Dec 12, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry I thought it was on the defensive play
Game was all ready over at that point. Our $110 millions dollar man is a choke artist. WOW!
Donaghy
Yes, I’m going to say it. That call was HORSE SHIT.
I'm really devestated by this
Can’t believe it. So SO SO ANGRY.
How can you make that call? These things only happen to the Bullets.
I feel like the refs reached through the computer screen and punched me in the stomach.
by Manimal Smith on Dec 12, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely, the firing circle should be faced inward not outward
We are not some great team plagued by corrupt referees, we STINK plain and simple, all this talk about referees is unproductive because thats not the root problem. We don’t deserve to win playing the way we have been playing.
by morethesamewiz on Dec 12, 2009 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
Where do we go from here?
We shouldn’t need a triple double from gil, a 30 point double double from Antawn, a near-Caron like effort from Caron, and lucky (but horrible and stupid) play from Boykins to lose to a terrible team without its only legitimate player.
BLOW IT UP. LIGHT THE MATCH. I’m done with this crap.
Can someone put up a Post Game thread so I can keep calling Gil a Choker
Who cares about the refs if we make our FT’s the game is over. Everyone knows not to leave it up to the refs to decide a game. You should be mad at the Wiz and no one else.
ccrun
You made your point. Gil’s still returning from two years, he’s not going to be 100%. We all know that. Should he make his free throws? YES, but he was 4 of 5 before that trip to the line. He had an effing triple double. Twan had a 30-10 game. Caron had 24 some points. It was our defense. And I blame Stevenson way more than Gil.
Okay maybe I am being a little harsh
but I just watched this same script play out two games in a row. Except this time it happened to a far worse team who were missing there best player. I just get tired of seeing our Wizards put in piss poor efforts like this.
Do you think they make that call against the Cavs, the Magic, the Laker, or the Celts?
NO WAY. This is the kind of thing that only happens when the league doesn’t respect you, or, you know, you are beating the Lakers in Game 6 of the Western Conference finals.
by Manimal Smith on Dec 12, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
The Cavs, Magic, Lakers or Celts wouldn’t need that call. They would be up 20 and have their human victory cigars out
Really?
LeBron didn’t need 5 steps 2-3 times to hit game winners in the playoffs on us?
That was a no respect call, pure and simple. Refs only lower the threshold of contact required for a foul at the end of the game when they don’t respect you. If they do respect you, then they require much more than that to call it.
by Manimal Smith on Dec 12, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
If I was a player talking to the media...
I would call out the refs and pay the hefty fine tonight. I would lambast the refs… but as Donaghy has pointed out… you’ll never get the end of it from them.
So Lebron is player for the Pacers now
Really the Refs had nothing to do with this loss. We were up by 6 with like a minute left. Only bad crappy teams lose a game like that.
No one is disputing that
We should have won this game whether or not they made that call.
The problem is that that call was complete and total garbage. That call is NEVER made at the end of games EVER. What I am saying is that garbage teams like ours get garbage calls like that.
by Manimal Smith on Dec 12, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
Getting mad at the call
only distracts what the real problems with this team are. A good team would never had found it self in the position.
Is this the worst the Wizards prospects have been in this decade?
Saddled with a nearmax deal with 5 years remaining to a player who is so shaken that he goes 0-4 in back to back games in clutch free throws, 13 mill a year to a 33 year old forward, over the tax level and unlikely to resign all its best players. SHIT, I mean if someone on the top seemed to realize how bad it was that’d be comforting, but it seems like everybodys walking around whistling show tunes
by morethesamewiz on Dec 12, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
It seems that bad huh
Unclutch – not clutch, not completing something that has to be done; bad.
Ladies and gents your 09-10 wizards
It could be worse
I don’t think Gil is really the problem. He played awesome tonight and once he is actually back to normal-ish we can build around him.
That said, I think that they need to blow up the team and get rid of Caron and Antawn for expirings, yonug players and picks. We can’t win a championship with this team. They are both great players, but we aren’t going to win like this and I’d like to see us have a chance in the future while they get a chance to win elsewhere.
by Manimal Smith on Dec 12, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Gil is what he is and I can't really see him missing FT's the rest of his career
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 12, 2009 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
Not all free throws
Just the important ones. He’s at around 70% overall. But I’ll be very surprised if he’s over 50% ‘close and late’.
One general thing to ponder
If that call was actually legitimate, then can someone please explain to me how the refs came up with .1 seconds?
Comcast went through that replay 10 times and at now time was it possible to pause it and say “there is the foul and .1 seconds are on the clock.” The refs felt that they needed to call a foul because they sensed contact, but they had no clue whether it was before or after the game ended and they had no clue whether Dunleavy could even have gotten the shot off under the rules.
It was all made up. The same kind of nonsense calls I have seen since I was a little tike watching Mark Allery run around in short shorts at the Cap center.
And no explanation will be given...
because NBA officials are above reproach on every decision they make and are shielded from scrutiny. I would like an explanation.
I Watched the Replay
And I can see how they came up with .1 seconds. Haywood’s arm made contact with Dunleavy’s head just a fraction of a second before the light came on in the backboard. It was a razor thin call, and could have gone either way. That’s why you don’t put yourself in that situation against a really bad team missing its best player.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
So it was a "split second"?
Meaning they felt he fouled him at .1 but couldn’t tell for sure so they made up a number with the lowest possible time remaining?
Maybe there was a foul, but that is not a call that should ever be made.
by Manimal Smith on Dec 12, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
It looked to me like BH didn't hit him until after the light went on
I felt like the refs called the foul on Haywood, then looked at the replay and decided it was Stevenson that fouled him. Rather than get the call wrong, they went with Haywood. No idea where they got 0.1 from though. I don’t have a DVR, so I’m just going based on what I saw in the replays
fan
I have never posted, but as a season ticket holder for the Wiz, i am seriously shocked. I have seen a lot of crappy games, but I truly think i have never seen such a horrible call as the last foul. I am floored. The officiaiting crew should be fined or fired. I am not excusing the Wiz. But refs should not be deciding games like that. terrible. Terrible. Seriously
Lonely Dissent
Is it true that such calls almost never get made at the end of games? Absolutely yet. However, Haywood did hit Dunleavy’s head at almost the exact same time that time ran out. After watching the replay several times, I concluded that it could have gone either way. Therefore, I refuse to blame the refs for this. When a team has a 6 point lead with under 2 minutes to go and is doing everything in their power to throw it all away, I think that puts just the slightest bit of prejudice in the ref’s mind to the extent that razor thin calls go towards the team making the best effort. That team was not the Wizards.
Face facts Wizards fans. This was the Pacers. At home. Without Danny Granger. We gave up 66 points at the half. We shot almost 30 percentage points less than the Pacers from the free throw line. We completely failed to compete in the 2nd quarter for the second game in a row. Gilbert choked for the second game in a row from the free throw line. (By the way, who the f*** gives a rat’s s*** about triple doubles when you choke away a game to the Pacers! Without Danny F****** Granger!) We were up 6 points with less than 2 minutes to go, and yet did everything wrong in those last two minutes.
Those are the facts. And yet everyone here except ccrun wants to blame the refs for this one? Only losers blame the refs for losing at home to crap teams coming off a back to back. There, I said it. Let the flames begin.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Dec 12, 2009 10:17 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Losers Refers to the Wizards
I am not referring to anyone here.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
I think it's all boiled up in this one call...
Everything. The frustration of people just sucking. Not playing basketball the right way. Not playing defense. Not playing people who deserve to play that on-court results. The inability to light a fire under Gilbert to supplement his basketball playing style with even mediocre defense. The fact that we still have Deshawn Stevenson playing minutes for this team. The fact that the trade deadline isn’t for another two or so months. The constant losing and lack of energy or pride. Everything.
well said
its time to blow this team up. i was patient during the 2 years arenas was out, happy to make excuses (that were legit) for the losses. But with the full team back, this is no longer acceptable. I dont think i can follow a team that has good players that refuse to/can’t put in consistent effort. where is the pride?? the only thing i can conclude is that they are no longer the players they were 2 yrs ago, and never will be again.
4th Quarter
The majoiry of NBA Games are won/lost in 4th quarter and success comes down to three things
1. Executing your offense and getting high percentage shots
2. Getting to the free throw line and hitting your shots
3. Critical defensive stops
Until the Wizards can learn this and put it togehter they will lose not matter how much “talent” they put on the floor
Comments ?
All your reasons mentioned
The Wiz fail to do over the entire span of the game. So for me its not so much 4th quarter execution as it is just putting in a full game effort.
HEY FLIP DID YOU NOT SEE WHAT NICK YOUNG DID FOR THE ENTIRE TEAM WHEN YOU FINALLY PUT HIM IN FOR THE 3RD QUARTER? DO YOU SEE HIS +/- ??? WHY IS DESHAWN PLAYING?! WHY? WHY DIDN'T NICK PLAY THE ENTIRE 4TH QUARTER? YOU'RE FREAKING TAPSCOTT.
Sorry for that.
My swag was phenomenal.
Whoa whoa whoa. I don't know about the Tapscott commet... yet.
Although I agree with you 100%. NY needs to be playing with Miller out.
Deshawn can’t shoot. can’t drive. can’t play defense without fouling, careless with the ball. He’s one of those, “how is he still in the NBA?” anomalies
It's even worse because Nick is putting together a solid, if not breakout year.
He’s trying to play defense and when he’s getting minutes, he’s producing.
No Continue please
I think the Wiz would have been better playing with a man down than inserting D-Steve.
Why So Surprised at the Loss?
Totally predictable. This is how we roll.
I saw it coming when we were up 3 with about 3 minutes left, and we blew a couple of fast breaks (Haywood or Jamison dropping a pass from Boykins, Boykins missing a pull up on a fast break feed from Gilbert) ….
We just could put them away. Them being the Indiana Pacers.
The refs stuff doesn’t matter. We can’t put teams away.
Way ahead of you
Prediction. We make a run in the third quarter. Get up by double digits and choke it away in the 4th.
by Fundefined on Dec 12, 2009 8:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you
The team has a patented formula:
1) have a bad start
2) catch-up
3) miss free throws
4) find a way to lose
Flip is oblivious to the obvious.
If you can't make free throws
your not going to win many games. Arenas and Jamison going 5-12 isn’t going to get it done.
blame
I blame shaq for all of our problems.
by rzawrecktah on Dec 13, 2009 1:23 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I'm considering taking a paper bag to friday's Warriors game to wear over my head just in case
Yay or nay?
I'll be there too Manimal
no bag for me though
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 13, 2009 3:11 AM EST up reply actions
Two crummy teams
They are playing Hibbert and Hansborough.
We are not playing McGee and Blatche.
Which team will be better down the road?
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