Cleveland Cavaliers 102, Washington Wizards 90
I'm frustrated, so this will be jumbled:
Too many fouls. Some fair, some unfair.
Too little frontcourt depth. Too much Shaq rolling over our defense.
Too little diversity on offense. Too many perimeter guys who really struggled today because Cleveland contests every jump shot like all great defensive teams.
Honestly, tonight proved this team is still too far away from the real contenders. It's a nice team - a very good team, even - but we're not there yet. That's okay, it's Game 4 of a long season, and there is a lot of change to go through.
Still, it's kind of frustrating how this game turned. Fouls hurt, and bad calls hurt, but it shouldn't completely swing the entire momentum of the game like that.
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Reposted from the other thread...
Highly disappointing…
I’ve really always wondered why referees are protected by the league in an impenetrable shell. Ever since the Donaghy scandal we were promised more information regarding the referees and how they’re trained and scored. It really calls into question the fairness of the league and Stern’s interest in the league’s brand. Now, I understand the game is tough to call and call correctly, but when you favor some players over others… it makes for a lame product.
That being said, the Wizards got away from everything they did right in the first quarter. DEFENSE. CONTESTING shots. They weren’t spectacular on offense, but they played a hell of a game on D. Towards the end of the game Gilbert just broke plays and called his number way too much. He, and I’m calling out him personally, needs to get Miller into the game so that if the defense sags to him, he’s got a knock down shooter ready to spot up. Frustrating and I sure as hell do not want to be in the locker room right now getting an earful from Flip.
Blatche...
I thought Blatche did alright tonight. I thought his offense struggled, but had some spectacular blocks and steals on defense. I haven’t seen the numbers yet, but he looked nice.
Agree with everything
Curious if you think Javale could help with guys like Shaq or is he not ready yet?
"We don’t have any rearview mirrors in our car,"- John Harbaugh
Mike said earlier and I agree with him...
McGee really struggled against Shaq. He doesn’t have the strength to really compete with the bigger centers of the league. Shaq just bullied him down low.
I gotchu
Didn’t get a chance to that matchup, I could definietly see him getting bullied being how is frame is smaller.
"We don’t have any rearview mirrors in our car,"- John Harbaugh
by purpleonblack86 on Nov 3, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
see
"We don’t have any rearview mirrors in our car,"- John Harbaugh
by purpleonblack86 on Nov 3, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
On the other hand
Everyone got bullied by Shaq. Haywood tried to maintain position, got shoved/hooked and got called for the foul for his trouble.
Even Mike is off ... it was only game 4.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.
Anybody catch that foul on Stevenson by Shaq? A little much by Shaq I thought lol.
"We don’t have any rearview mirrors in our car,"- John Harbaugh
how was that not flagrant? went to the head, no play on the ball.
by MR on Nov 3, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
The Wizards
Definitely disappointed me tonight. I wasn’t even necessarily looking for a win tonight, but it seemed like the score should have been worst than what it was based on the way we played in the second half. I was expecting us to just barely beat them, or for them to just barely beat us, but that definitely wasn’t the case tonight.
I know we’re missing Jamison, but I have a feeling that we still would have lost the game. Like Mike said, you can tell that the Wizards aren’t one of the true contenders in the NBA. However, as Mike also said, it was only game 4 and it’s a long season so you never know.
Yeah I was most disappointed in
the teams reaction to a few bad calls and other things not going their way. I know the crabs are a very good defensive team. But how did the wiz stop doing everything that worked for them early? It was odd, and disturbing to see the loss of composure. Miller and Foye need to be a bigger part of the offense. I could ramble on but I won’t – one game, long season, blah blah.
At least Miami and Orlando finally lost, and ATL is down early against Portland.
"a crab dribble is when you travel" - caron butler
by little stevie colter on Nov 3, 2009 10:45 PM EST reply actions
I thought the charge on Blatche was worse
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Just remember Mike
We’re still missing Antawn. If Antawn plays this game I think it’s a little closer. He’s a guy we can throw it to when the offense bogs down and he also helps that little problem of front court depth you mentioned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk
I think you guys are a little to down
The O is not going to be smooth for at least 20-30 games. GIl has never played with foye. oberto and miller, and barely played with blatche, young, mcgee. He has his own rust, oh and is learning a completely new offense. The cavs have been one of the best defensive teams in the league over the last few years. Throw in bad calls and a poor shooting night, and we have no chance of winning in cleveland.
Postives we can take away. GIl is healthy. Blatche is going to be great off the bench for us. We are playing much better D, and it should only get better over time. Miller and Foye fit well with the team, although there is still a lot of improvement needed.
Oh, and we miss jamison and need him to be an elite team. Oberto cant his 12 foot jump shots. If you can’t force you guy to guard you 12 feet from the hoop as a power forward, that really hurts the O.
Are we a championship team, probably not, but if healthy and we improve over the year can we compete with the cavs in a 7 game series. Definitely
by Blatche4MVP on Nov 3, 2009 11:33 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Just got home and watched the game
I was going to give a wordy review but this one right here pretty much sums it up.
Jamison
Strongly second you mentioning him. I think the 3Q would have looked different if the team could have run some pick-and-rolls with Gil and Jamison, but can’t do that with Oberto and Blatche just wasn’t in any sort of groove in his second stint.
Over-reaction
This was a road game against a top team without one of our best players. No team in the league – contender or not – could be expected to win under these circumstances.
I was surprised that Paul Davis didn’t suit up and Mike James did. We need to able to aggressively hack a Shaq throughout the entire game.
Other than that, we’ll get them next time.
Flip needs to get the team refocused on Miami.
Great Point
I was surprised that Paul Davis didn’t suit up and Mike James did. We need to able to aggressively hack a Shaq throughout the entire game.
We could have used Davis’s six fouls in this one. Shaq needed to be hit back. We need to use this loss as a learning experience so that we can plaster them later this season. Oh, and doesn’t Tim Donaghy sound a whole lot more believable now? The excessive foul calls more than anything took us out of rhythm and benefited the CrabDribblers’ slow pace. David Stern sure knows how to gift-wrap a win for his Golden Boy.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Lost focus
The offense lost its focus in the second and didn’t really get it back. Then Gil went into lone ranger mode a few times he shouldn’t have — he needs to be a little more patient given all the weapons he has to work with. I think refs were the difference in this game. I saw at least 10 questionable calld/non-calls go against the wiz and not one go against the cavs. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but the refs really looked biased to me (which I didn’ t see in any other game, so I don’t think it’s just homerism on my part). It wasn’t just Lebron calls either…it was all over the place. Not saying the Wiz would have won, but it would have at least been very close if the officiating was more balanced.
Physical
I was disappointed in the physical nature of the game. Shaq put two very hard fouls on us (Stevenson and Miller) and I saw no response from the Wizards. I felt like once we lost our swagger we backed down. That can’t happen. If Shaq is going to take a Wizard down at the head, we need to respond in kind. If they are going to commit playoff fouls we need to as well.
I’d like to not hear anymore that this isn’t a rivalry. The Cavs announcers and fans clearly get up for the Wiz, and obviously the Cavs do too. That’s a rivalry.
Analogy
This reminded me A LOT of some of the MD-Duke games of 5 or 10 years ago (not a rivalry either, of course), where some questionable/bad calls would help change momentum and get Duke back in the game, but then the fatal part was when MD just couldn’t get back into its game plan and execute and would give up a big run. Coming out of halftime, it felt like the Wiz were down 10, not actually leading, and the body language really looked like it too. And things just never got back on track.
Of course, eventually MD did break through (after some really crushing losses).
The fouls sort of evened out in the end,
but we had all our fouls early to the big men during our lead. If anything Jamison would have added another body. It was a horrible game to watch after the 18 point lead we had, but Cavs went 9-14 from 3 in the second half. That can’t be expected everytime and we got in horrible foul trouble.
Oberto only ended up having 2 fouls so I don’t know what he wasn’t doing to not earn some.
Shaq used his quickness to beat McGee which shouldn’t be. One thing that definitely can improve by the end of the season is McGee’s footwork and positioning because he has 4 rebounds so far this season and tries to rely completely on his jumping ability for them.
Gilbert was disappointting because he took so many contested shots and didn’t look for teammates. Credit good defense and Gilbert on some nights will make them, but I was crossing my fingers for Nick Young in the 4th quarter because no one was hitting and why not take a chance.
Trade with GSW
A few days ago, we discussed a trade to get Stephen Jackson and Ronny Turiaf. Those two guys could have really helped us in last night’s game.
Stop with the whining
Seriously guys, nobody will respect you as a fanbase if all you do is complain about foul calls. 90% of the game thread was just constant complaining about the refs. Get over it. There are bad calls in every game, and against both teams.
You should be discussing the faults and successes of your own team instead of the faults of the refs. The Wizards shot 41 free throw attempts. The Cavs shot 27. Do you realize how ridiculous you all sound?
Anyways, I thought it was a good game. Both teams went on really hot streaks. The 2nd half was ugly offensively for the Wiz – a combination of poor execution and suffocating defense. The first quarter did show that the Wiz are very capable of being a high potent offense, and will be a dangerous team down the road.
Hope to see you guys in the playoffs.
Quick followup, I wasn’t implying that everyone was complaining about the refs, but some of the comments I saw in the game thread (and a few here) just rubbed me the wrong way. I know every fanbase has these kinds of fans, and it comes with the territory.
I think you make a good point and I respect you for coming here and making it in a non-confrontational way.
I think the team needs to not worry about the refs. Sometimes they get caught up in that and it takes them out of their rhythm, like last night.
But as for the fans, I don’t think there is any “respect for a fanbase”. I mean, do people really go around saying one “fanbase” is better than another? Does anyone care?
Keep in mind that you (I am assuming you are a Cavs fan) follow a team far on the plus side of the bad call ledger. No offense, but the noise coming out of Cleveland during the Jordan/Craig Ehlo days was quite different.
Thanks for posting. See you in the ECF.
by MR on Nov 4, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Regarding your respect of fanbase comment: A great example of this is Boston fans. Does anyone actually respect their fanbase? Not at all. Thats because if they don’t win a game, they always try to find a way to blame it on the refs.
Teams like Chicago, San Antonio, and Dallas all have very knowledgeable fans that understand that its impossible for there not to be bad calls. Its an unfortunate but unavoidable part of the game. As we saw with the replacement refs’ pathetic performance, its nearly impossible to call a good game – and NBA refs do a respectable job all things considered.
I just don’t know what “anyone” and “fanbase” are. Sorry, don’t mean to be argumentative, but we’re all individuals and some people in each place are knowledgeable and some aren’t. Actually I don’t think fans in any of those cities you mentioned are any more so than anyone else. Who is it that thinks that Boston fans are so bad? i always thought they had pretty good fans.
I’m not trying to be contradictory, I just think that you go to any game or read any game thread and you’re going to find a lot of complaints about officiating. Lebron whines about every call out there, in my opinion more than almost any player in the league. Does that reflect on the fanbase? Or is it the announcers? I’m just not sure where you’re coming from.
Having said that, I again will say I think that the PLAYERS need to not let the officiating get to them. Maybe you’re right and we fans need to as well.
I will go on record as saying one day we will attempt to explain to our children how a sports league could have such a blatantly biased officiating system for so long and how the fans tolerated it. I believe that some time in the next 10 years the fresh air of change will blow through the NBA and we’ll all wake up as if from a dream and wonder what took so long. Hopefully the Donaghey stuff will be the agent for that change, but I suspect it will never happen as long as Stern is in command.
by MR on Nov 4, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
And let’s be fair about the fouls as well….
1. After the first quarter, EVERY Washington big man had 3 or more fouls (Oberto only had 2)….
2. That completely changed the complexion of the game defensively for Washington
From there, it was a matter of the Washington fans (me included) looking for reasons to bitch about the refereeing…
the Offensive foul on Blatche, when the Cleveland player was moving… vs. the blocking call on Miller (who had position and was set for about 10 seconds) when LeBron bowled him over..
The fouls on Butler under the basket by Shaq and Varejao (Butler looked like a pinball, bouncing back and forth, with Cleveland arms hacking him right and left) – vs. the tick-tack fouls called on Blatche and .
The hook by Shaq, and subsequent foul called on Haywood.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Thanks
Keep in mind that the game thread is meant for those emotional comments, while the postgame stuff is more about dissecting what went wrong. It’s a function of how we structure the content on the site as much as anything.
In other words, to look at the game thread one day later and say “Damn, what a bunch of whiners” is a bit unfair. Context needs to be considered.
The reason we haven’t “analyzed our team” as much as you would think is that I haven’t posted the non-emotional game recap yet.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Blueprint to beat the Washington Wizards
1. Make sure you are playing at home….. check
2. Make sure you’re an elite team….. check
3. Pound the ball inside in the 1st quarter – and allow the Referees to help you out by calling every tick-tack foul… check
4. Once you have all the Wizard’s big men in foul trouble…start attacking the rim … check
5. In the second half, go back to pounding the ball inside…. running over, through and generally brutalizing anyone in the way….. check (Oh by the way, don’t worry about fouls – there will be none called)
6. In the 4th quarter, when the Wizards have packed the lane, chuck up wide open 3-pointers…. check
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
my two cents
i didn’t think the refereeing was that lopsided in favor of the cavs. the charging calls against haywood and blatche were crap, and a couple when lebron flopped or fell down, but i thought there were several bad calls that went the wizards way too, and the cleveland fan is right to point out the free throw advantage for the wiz.
and let’s face it, haywood got DOMINATED. it’s sad really, that shaq still owns him like that. and gilbert didn’t play well at all. he needs to learn to trust his teammates, to get them going.
the examiner guy made a good point that the wiz didn’t defend the three well, other than parker, who stunk up the joint.
for that matter, i don’t think the wiz did much of anything well for the last three quarters, hence a 15+ point lead turns into a 15 point deficit. that is an ass-whupping.
my only hope is they learn something and they learn how to attack cleveland’s slow and old bigs. if we slow it down and try to match up, cleveland’s size inside looks like it will chew us up.
we need to get this monkey off our backs.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Nov 4, 2009 12:14 PM EST reply actions
Unfortunately
this is exactly what I was worried the Wizards would be. I’ve said time and again, very few jump shooting teams are dominant. And that’s what we are. Other than Gilbert, we have no slashers. Caron has turned into solely a jumpshooter, Foye is a jump shooter, and Miller is a spot up shooter. I was hoping Young would turn into a slasher, but he doesn’t even get off the bench. Sometimes this will work, but it won’t work consistently, especially against good teams. The bottom line is, the Wiz aren’t prepared to challenge Cleveland, as much as we want them to.
And you can’t blame that loss on the refs. Were they atrocious? Absolutely. I think those guys should be ashamed of themselves for that performance. But they didn’t lost us the game. We lost the game when our jumpshooters went cold. Which is what happens to EVERY jumpshooting team. And sure Shaq got some pitiful calls. But does that REALLY surprise anyone? As old and decrepis as he is, Shaq still commands a lot of attention in the post, and the Wizards aren’t equipped to handle him.
Now, about Shaq. I remember being ostracized for suggesting we should look into trading Haywood for him. Truthfully, I never really thought we should, I just wanted to see a discussion on the topic. But last night is the REASON I thought the trade would be viable. I know how a lot of people on here love Brendan, but he is simply mediocre at best. He’s near useless against really good post players, staying in foul trouble most of the time, and he’s a liability on offense. I know, I know, he’s got that devastating jump hook now. But he’s shooting fall away jumpers. If you are 7ft, 260 lbs, you should be going to the going to the basket aggressively, not falling away.
The Wizards shot 41 free throws
You don’t do that if you don’t slash.
And Brendan usually defends other centers fine. He had a bad game tonight, but he also got no help (the Wizards were content to play Shaq straight up). Not his fault Shaq went off. Shaq put up a ton of points on McGee and Oberto too.
The real problem is the jumpers didn’t fall tonight and we couldn’t get out and run. Major credit to Cleveland’s defense there.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
if you think
they weren’t shooting too many jumpers, than we watched a different game. And I guess Glenn Consor was on the same channel as me, because he said the same thing after the game. I believe we had something like 22 points in the paint. That is unacceptable. I saw us hitting jumpers in the first half, and missing them in the 2nd half. Sure, there were a few drives to the basket here and there, but it was mostly jump shots.
As for Haywood, I guess I came off wrong. I don’t fault him. I know he can’t guard Shaq straight up. Shaq gets everyone in foul trouble when he plays aggressively. The problem goes back to what we talked about before the season started. There is no viable backup for Haywood in that instance. Maybe Oberto will be better as the backup 5 when Jamison gets back, but is he going to be better against Shaq? Or Howard? Or Elton Brand? No, no, and no. Of course, I DO realize that nearly every team has problems with these guys. But other teams have multiple options. We have no one behind Brendan. So no, I don’t really fault Brendan for his defense on Shaq. (now, watching Varejao score on him at will WAS a little frustrating) But I DO fault him for his offense. You can defend him all you want. A 7 footer should NOT be taking fall away jumpers. Period. In fact, I’ll bet if you asked Haywood himself that, he’d tell you the same.
Now, I apologize for being all doom and gloom earlier. I actually had to go before I could finish. What I wanted to end with was the fact that I still think we are capable of being a very good team. We may even be able to push 50 games. I just don’t see us stepping into elite status without more help underneath.
Oh yeah, speaking of help underneath. Is anyone else following how well Dejuan Blair is doing? Popovoch loves the guy. Can’t blame him.
A few responses
1. The Wizards’ FT/FG rate was off the charts last night. So they were driving to the bucket plenty. The reason the points in the paint number was so low is because they were being fouled whenever they drove. Glenn’s wrong, in this case. “Jump-shooting” team is code for “team without a traditional low-post option.” Or, in today’s NBA, I guess you could say it means “team that doesn’t finish a lot of plays in the paint.” Maybe that’s what you mean. But I just can’t sit here and say that the problem is too many jumpers when the Wizards are drawing so many fouls by driving.
The jump-shooting criticism is not what’s going on. The problem is that those drives didn’t come in the flow of the offense, and without Jamison, there’s no post-up guys out there. So it seems like everything is forced, jumpers and drives included. None of the drives looked right, if that makes any sense. So really, it all goes back to poor half-court execution. If the Wizards execute their half-court offense well, they won’t be called a jump-shooting team.
2. Oberto as a backup 5 is okay. Not great, but better than we’ve had on defense. I suspect Jamison’s return will help clarify the rotation a lot. Haywood’s increased offensive usage is a bit of a concern, but it’s early in the season. I also suspect he wouldn’t tell you that he’s shooting too much.
3. There’s a thread for DeJuan Blair in the FanPosts.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
again
we’ll agree to disagree. I don’t think Glenn was wrong either. To me, “jump shooting team” is not a code. It simply means a team that relies on jumpers. If they fall, you win. If they don’t, you lose. I watched the 1st half of tonights game, and counted 10 jumpers in a row at one point. No, we don’t have a low post option. Jamison is the closest thing to that, but even he tends to hang out at the 3 point line a bit much. It sounded like Arenas took it upon himself to go to the basket more as tonights game went on. But I still think Butler is settling too much for the outside shot. And Stevenson….UGH!! He gives us nothing, except 2 missed free throws. So if they think he’s better than Nick Young to the point where Young can’t get off the bench, then Young needs to go.

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