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Randy Foye gets "in the flow" when paired with another ball-handler

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More photos » Haraz N. Ghanbari - AP

RICHMOND -- For Randy Foye, training camp might as well have been dubbed "The Great Point Guard Experiment, Part II."  The new Wizard, whom current Wizards assistant coach Randy Wittman tried to make a point guard when he was coaching the Minnesota Timberwolves, spent nearly every drill, scrimmage and set initiating the offense on the ball during the week-long training camp.

So how'd he grade out in his first preseason game?  Well, there was that one possession in the second quarter where he missed a wide-open Mike Miller spotting up at the three-point line, instead flinging an off-balanced runner against three defenders.  There was that other possession where he got to the basket, but had everyone collapse on him and eventually committed a turnover. 

Through three quarters, Foye had five points on 1-5 shooting, with just one assist and two turnovers.  He looked uncomfortable and unnatural, like a square peg in a round hole. 

"In the beginning, [I] just had a little bit of jitters," Foye said.  "New team, new guys, new offense, so I had to get accustomed to everything."

Then, in the fourth quarter, coach Flip Saunders put Miller in the game with Foye for an extended stretch.  The result?  Foye looked more comfortable, tallying nine points in the quarter, Miller was more involved in the offense and the Wizards pulled away to get a victory.  Maybe it was the poor level of the opposition, but both players -- and the offense -- just looked more comfortable.

"In the fourth quarter, guys didn't really search shots," Saunders said after the game.  "They just kind of played, moved the ball, and if a guy had a shot, he took it."

Star-divide

It's still very, very early, but the stint raises some interesting questions regarding both players' roles this season. 

For Foye, it makes you wonder whether it makes sense for Saunders to employ him as a pure point guard like Gilbert Arenas.  Last year in Minnesota, Foye spent time at both guard positions, but his production, at least offensively, was significantly better as a shooting guard than as a point guard.  But with so many shooting guards already on the roster, Saunders and company have played Foye at point guard because it gives him the best chance to get playing time.

Earlier in training camp, Foye said he had a leg up on learning Saunders' system because Wittman ran a similar offense during his coaching tenure in Minnesota.  He sounded confident that he was picking Flip's sets up.  But once he had to do it in a game, Foye admitted that switching back to playing point guard was an adjustment.

"Last year, I was at the 2, and the point a little bit, but this is something new for me, so at the beginning, I had to get my mentality back of playing point guard and setting everyone up," he said.

True to his optimistic, steady nature, Foye said that he picked it up as the game continued, saying "once I got into the flow, that was it."  But Saunders made a subtle change, one that probably empowered Foye as much as it empowered the team.  Rather than rely on Foye to create shots for everybody, Saunders put the ball in Miller's hands more often on pick and rolls, allowing Foye to do some spotting up instead of feeling pressured to make every play.  

"I tried to put [Miller] in there because I thought he would help Randy a little bit, calm him down, which I thought it did," Saunders said.  "Randy looked pretty comfortable and he started knocking down some shots."

The result was that the Wizards scored 30 points in the final period, even though none of the starters were on the floor.  More importantly, it provided Foye with some comfort and familiarity during a time when he's trying to re-learn yet another new approach to the game.  Foye admitted afterwards that playing with Miller reminded him of their time together in Minnesota.

"Last year, when Mike would get rebounds, we used to just take off, because Mike could handle the ball," Foye said.  "A couple times, I caught myself going off running, and I heard Coach saying 'Get the ball Randy!' so I had to run back."

The subtle switch also empowered Miller, who had previously been content to stand around and not get involved in the offense.  Miller's problem in Minnesota was that he was too unselfish, but he barely made a dent doing anything in the second quarter yesterday because Foye was the one doing the creating.  In the fourth quarter, however, Miller was setting others up, showing off his all-around game that many of us didn't believe he possessed.  His numbers might not reflect his impact, but he was making plays that eventually led to open shots for others, like the time he delivered a beautiful touch pass to JaVale McGee for a huge slam.

"Randy [Foye] is still learning the [point guard] position; he's not really as vocal as you'd want him to be right now," Saunders said.  "Mike gives you another facilitator.  Mike's almost like a point guard that plays small forward, [because he can] handle the ball and get guys in their spots."

Miller left the locker room too quick for anyone to ask him questions last night, but all through training camp, he has talked about fitting in and making an impact on the floor without doing anything because of his shooting reputation.  But as we saw yesterday, Miller has too many great skills that go to waste if he just serves as a spot-up shooter.  Perhaps that's what Minnesota wanted him to do, but there are so many weapons here that Miller could be setting up. 

One of those weapons is Randy Foye.  For both players' sake, playing together and trading off the ball-handling duties might be the key in getting them both to adjust to a new situation.

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Randy many not be a PG

I think its still definitely early in this process to write him off at pg.
Maybe part of his comfort with Miller is they played so much
together its easy for Randy to slip back into that role.

by forthepeople on Oct 8, 2009 1:32 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Early to write him off. We heard this for years in Minnesota.

When Washington fans get to the point of revisiting “He could be like Chauncey Billups” every couple of months or so, let us know, and we can tell you we did that one too.

Foye doesn’t have the vision to be a good point guard. Trying to do it cuts his own aggressiveness out from under him. His ability to finish has eroded significantly since his rookie year, but perhaps, perhaps, as a scorer off the bench he’ll make himself a very nice career. I’m totally rooting for that, ‘cause he’s the nicest athlete ever.

by feral on Oct 8, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If necessary, we have the personnel to surround Randy with playmakers

Gil and Caron are obviously excellent passers. Miller has skills as mentioned in the OP. Crittenton is a big PG who could switch with Randy on D. DeShawn sees the court and passes pretty well. Dominic has “point forward” skills. If Andray can learn to stop forcing things, he’ll be a very good passer. Oberto has more assists than TO’s, which is unusual for a center.

Randy has skills, and his teammates have skills that could complement his game nicely— I’m psyched to see what kind of a meal Flip can make with these ingredients.

by yop32 on Oct 8, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Foye at PG

Like you said, playing Foye at backup PG is a great way to get him floor time since the SG position is so crowded. But another factor is this: who else is going to play there? Critt, who may not have the coach’s confidence, is injured. Mike James is likely way down the depth chart and has value primarily as a trading chip and is likely gone by midseason. Stevenson has been known to bring the ball up court but is probably a worse fit at PG than Foye. On top of all that, the starter is coming back from injury and his minutes are being limited.

by MR on Oct 8, 2009 4:41 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I might be over-thinking this...

… but this might mean Nick has a real chance of starting, though he might get fewer minutes than Foye or Miller.

If you start the Big 4 + Nick, bring in Foye at SG at the 6 minute mark, bring in Miller for Gilbert at the 9, then Nick for CB at the 12, you can some nice looking line-ups while managing Gil’s minutes. (I’m ignoring all the 4/5 personnel.)

I’m on record as saying that Foye would and should get the starting job, but now I’m less sure.

by RamVA on Oct 8, 2009 9:24 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If I were a betting person

I’d take DeShawn Stevenson as the starting SG …. but I’m only about 60% confident about that.

Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.

by Truth About It on Oct 8, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll second that.

Mike Miller seems to be the real deal – shooting, passing, rebounding – but I think it would be tough to start him at SG. Too many others on this team are going to need defensive help and I’m afraid starting Miller at the 2 would only exacerbate an area we are trying to improve – say all you want about length, in my opinion. Plus it’s not like Stevenson can’t knock down an open 3.

by mogoman on Oct 8, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crazy as it sounds to myself to say this

I think I agree. DSteve starts at SG and is the first to be subbed. Miller comes off the bench for him, Foye for Arenas. When NY comes in, Miller shifts to SF.

I like Miller finishing games at SG.

However, Stevenson does not fit the mold for SG in the offense, like a Rip Hamilton coming off screens.

by MR on Oct 8, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mike Miller as starting SG

I like Miller as the starter because he will contribute on the boards. A big part of being a good defensive team is securing the rebound after forcing the opponents to miss. The 44% offensive rebound rate that we surrendered to the Grizz is just unacceptable.

by yop32 on Oct 8, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I LOVE Mike Miller

but I’m starting to think he’s a better fit as 6th man getting lots of minutes.

by MR on Oct 8, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those rebounding numbers are not reflective of Miller's defensive ability.

Get used to watching Señor Miller slow-motion-frantically wandering around on defense only to leap, half a second too slow, to raise his hand after the jump shot’s already away. He’s trying so hard, honest he is, but his quickness, defensively, is not enough.

I totally agree about giving up offensive boards, but Miller defensively is a problem. As a SG he’s going to get burned by any starter worth his salt.

by feral on Oct 8, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't see this slow-ass Miller you speak of last night

Besides, even if his footspeed is slow, Flip’s system here gives more help than most defensive systems (almost to a fault), so I don’t see things as being a huge problem.

It also seems Caron Butler will handle the quicker defensive wings, not the SG.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Oct 8, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ripish

Very true, only Young and possibly Foye could be considered Rip-like coming off screens. It will be interesting to see what happens. Also, I noticed in one of his quotes that Flip refers to Miller as a SF when speaking of the team.

by mogoman on Oct 8, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now you're talking about a 10 man rotation.

Stevenson’s goning to need to have a big pre-season to crack it.

by RamV on Oct 8, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good call Mike
But as we saw yesterday, Miller has too many great skills that go to waste if he just serves as a spot-up shooter.

Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.

by Truth About It on Oct 8, 2009 9:25 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Does the team really need a pure PG to be successful?

It seems like our recent success came when we employed combo guards, not when we obsessed over having a textbook PG and SG in the backcourt.

It may be that Foye needs more time, it may be that his skills straddle the fence between a point guard and a shooting guard. Weren’t the same questions being asked of Arenas a few years back?

And if I recall correctly, the saying goes that you need a good Big Man and defense to win. Not a “pure point guard.”

by Pryme on Oct 8, 2009 9:53 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No the team does not need a “pure PG” and Foye doesn’t have to be a “pure PG”, but the team does need a facilitator on the floor at all times….

A traditional PG has two main duties on Offense…….
1. bring the ball up court (under pressure if necessary) and initiate the Offense
2. Create shots for himself and his teammates (be a facilitator)…

You cannot have a team made up of Young, Butler, Jamison, Haywood and McGuire for instance…. Although they may be able to get the ball over the half court line, no one in that lineup can create shots for his teammates…

Flip essentially split the traditional PG duties in the 4th quarter – giving the first part to Randy (bring the ball up court) and the second part to Miller (facilitate and create shots).,.. In that way, he got the best from Randy (ball handling, spot up shooting, Shooting Guard mentality) – and he got the best out of Miller (ability to create, passing ability)…

I think I’m going to end up loving Flip Saunders as the Wizard’s Head Coach….

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Oct 8, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Flip's offensive philosophy "purifies" the PG

It puts the ball in his hands a ton, so it’s best filled by pure PGs. It has nothing to do with winning or whatever, it’s just how Flip likes to run things. You can’t ask a coach to change his core philosophy if it’s proven to be successful.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Oct 8, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He particularly likes safe PGs.

Flip is very big on Assist-to-Turnover ratios. He doesn’t particularly favor PGs who break down the defense by taking it fearlessly inside, because that’s a higher-risk approach. He uses A-to-TO almost as a primary measure of how well things are working for his teams offensively. You’ll hear it in interviews.

All the way back when Tracy Jordan (then going by the name “Stephon Marbury”) left the Timberwolves, that was one of the problems; Flip was criticized for asking Marbs to play too conservatively. Marbury at the time was unreal at heading inside and handing the ball off once the defense reacted. Flip wasn’t so hot on that. (Not coincidentally, the preferred replacement for Marbury was Terrell Brandon, who hardly took it inside at all.)

by feral on Oct 8, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your memory differs from me

I remember Flip asking Stephon to play exactly the way he played. Stephon just got jealous and demanded a trade.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Oct 8, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Marbury talked about

being asked to play like an old-time Celtics point guard. Remember that?

by feral on Oct 8, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

1. No

2. You believe the words that come out of that dude’s mouth?

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Oct 8, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree that Flip wants a “pure” PG…. In multiple interviews, he has stated over and over again that he wants his PG to be aggressive and also wants him to look for his shot.

His PG’s have always been either the highest scorer, or the second highest scorer on his teams….

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Oct 8, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think alot of that was a reflection of the talent on his teams

I mean Cassell was the first or second best option for any coach and same with Billups.

by BayAreaBullet on Oct 8, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The most hopeful sign in all of this

is the coach’s ability to make a sight read on what is/isn’t working and make the quick adjustment.

Training camp gives you limited information compared to what you will see in-game. I love that Flip is constantly analyzing things as they happen, where EJ would occasionally stay too long with something that wasn’t working and simply expect the players to fight their way through it. EJ was best when re-tweaking his offense in the offseason, or given some time to analyze it, and stood out in his ability to inspire his guys to fight hard in near-impossible situations.

If Flip can tweak the lines so the impossible situations are few and far between, I’ll take that. To be fair he has a larger arsenal with this line-up, but on the other hand, compared to EJ’s P-ton system, Flip’s book reduces the decision-making requirements of many players on the floor, thus he has access to more lines since the system is more flexible, putting the distribution and creative workload in the hands of players who are most suited for it instead of requiring that sort of aptitude for all players on the floor.

That said I’m pretty sure EJ would have loved to have Mike Miller and Randy Foye instead of Ared Effries and Donnell Taylor.

by doclinkin on Oct 8, 2009 10:51 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

on the other hand ...

In terms of the defensive scheming, one player (I can’t remember who) was saying (or alluding to) that Eddie changed his ‘plan’ a lot and that they will appreciate the consistency of and sticking to Flip’s system.

Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.

by Truth About It on Oct 8, 2009 11:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Caron said it

but that’s in reference to various junk defenses and schemes that EJ was attempting to use to cover up his team’s basic shortfall in a couple positions, it wasn’t in reference to in-game adjustments.

I’m not trying to say Eddie = bad. Tired of that argument, and I liked the guy. I’m saying Flip’s offensive system is flexible, which means we can use our team’s depth to good advantage instead of struggling to find the exact right two-way mix who have a specialized skillset to fit the scheme. Players in traditional roles may not prove as dynamic and surprising a mismatch on offense, but what’s lost in the improvisational flexibility of a multi-headed attack may be made up for by the coaches ability to adjust the lines to suit the situation.

A coach won’t be forced to play small just because those are the guys who understand the system and have the skillset to make it work. A system that requires a face-up sweet-passing center has a shallower pool of players to choose from or draft. You’ll tend to overlook a defensive center like Big Wood, and you’d try to draft multi-tool face-up bigs to replace him or to sub in for your long-range-capable tweener PF.

by doclinkin on Oct 8, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You can't just turn a guy into a PG

I honestly believe your either a pure pg or your not. I think the biggest mistake in player development IMO is trying to make a guy a pg when he’s not. Foye will have to play alot of PG because there isn’t really anybody else who can do it. I like Foye alot too he’s just not a pg. He can slide over there and not be atrocious but it’s not his position. We can sit around convincing ourselves he’s gonna become a true pg sometime but it will most likely never happen. He’s a really good combo guard when allowed to do his thing. We are just a poorly balanced team and this is another indication.

by BayAreaBullet on Oct 8, 2009 6:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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