Nick Young had an awesome camp, now Flip Saunders has rewarded him with the starting SG job tonight...

Nick Young had an awesome camp, now Flip Saunders has rewarded him with the starting SG job tonight against Memphis.

Michael Lee's Twitter. Wow. This is definitely a nice surprise.

over 2 years ago Mike Prada 30 comments 0 recs |

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Glad to see hard work rewarded.

These kids need to see that their work can produce results. Mostly, I’m glad that Nick will get some real minutes.

by MuggsyBol on Oct 6, 2009 12:59 PM EDT reply actions

What is the significance of this?

Is Nick in the front running for the starting SG or what?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk

by hibachi on Oct 6, 2009 1:12 PM EDT reply actions

I have no idea

To be honest, my “conspiracy” theory of sorts is that Flip is only giving him the start here because he knows how much Nick’s minutes were yanked around last year and that Nick’s confidence, a huge part of his game, went down as a result. He might be starting him here just to keep that confidence high so he’ll continue to work hard during the preseason.

But there’s no doubt he’s had a great camp, and I do think Flip would like to keep Miller with the second unit playing with Foye, because Miller’s passing ability is very important, since Foye isn’t a traditional PG.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Oct 6, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions

The other thing to keep in mind

Is that Nick is the only guy who has expressed publicly that he wants to start. Stevenson and Miller have both said it doesn’t really matter to them. I’m sure the coaches have been thinking about that a lot.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Oct 6, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Is that Nick is the only guy who has expressed publicly that he wants to start.

That strikes me as a terrible way to choose a starting lineup.

Hey, didn’t Flip say that the starter for this game wasn’t an indication of who the regular season starter would be?

by MR on Oct 6, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Remember, starting doesn't equal finishing

So knowing that the starting distinction means a lot more for Young than Stevenson or Miller, why not start Young to keep his confidence and play up and finish with Stevenson or Miller? Gives everyone what they want.

Obviously, if Young isn’t performing, that’s one thing, but we don’t know that yet.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Oct 6, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Are we talking about for tonight's game or for the season starting job?

Agreed that it really isn’t very important who starts tonight, at least I can’t see how it would be. But for the regular season of course choosing a starter is hugely important.

by MR on Oct 6, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Could it be related to AI being out?

didn’t Flip say he would try to match up Stevenson with Iverson? since that’s no longer an issue, maybe it made it easier to give it to Young for tonight.

"a crab dribble is when you travel" - caron butler

by little stevie colter on Oct 6, 2009 1:29 PM EDT reply actions

Foye

I still think it’s pretty obvious that Foye should be the starting SG when the season opens, no matter how much point he played during training camp.

Here’s hoping we see improvement from Young. Until I see otherwise, he’s a one dimensional gunner in my mind who doesn’t make other people better.

by mfish on Oct 6, 2009 1:39 PM EDT reply actions

I still think it’s pretty obvious that Foye should be the starting SG when the season opens, no matter how much point he played during training camp.

How so?

I’m curious because it seems obvious to me that Foye should/will be the backup PG, so I’m wondering what you’re seeing that I’m not.

by MR on Oct 6, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions

just an opinion that he should be

A) He’s simply the best player amongst the three at this point offensively (I’m not including Miller, as I think he’s the perfect guy off the bench with his versatility). I think most statistical measures back this up.

B) I trust his three point shooting more than Young/Stevenson.

C) Didn’t we have a long analysis over the offseason that Foye was much more effective as a SG than a PG? Why are we trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?

D) I think he needs to be on the floor as much as possible with Gilbert to evaluate if he’s part of the long-term plan.

E) Just watching him play with his quickness, I think he has a chance to be the defender that Stevenson is (and that Young will never be). I do realize that taller SGs could give him trouble.

We’ll have to see them play, and obviously Crittendon’s injury makes the need for a backup PG more obvious.

by mfish on Oct 6, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree with your sentiment

and wish our team had better balance. I also think Foye could play alongside Arenas well as his passing/shooting would complement well. Alot of people feel that Foye would be a downgrade on D at the 2 but I am not sure that NY and MM are better defenders just because they’re taller. I think Foye is the second best SG we have on D(behind DS) but wouldn’t argue that really hard and Foye can switch defensively with Arenas(6’4") as we have seen before with smaller 2 like Iverson(Snow guarded the bigger guys) and Monta Ellis(Baron guarded the 2’s). I think this would be especially effective against teams like Boston this year. Does anybody want Arenas trying to check Rondo? Arenas could stay on the court and chase Ray Allen around screens while Foye could check Rondo. Then on O Arenas could let Foye bring the ball up against Ray Allen and not have to deal with Rondo. Cleveland is another team where we would want to lock down their PG while keeping Arenas on the floor. Unless MM or NY become good defenders this year we will have alot of trouble getting any defense in the backcourt without taking Arenas out of the game. You can put in DS at the 2 but then your sacrificing alot of offense.
All that being said it is abundantly clear right now that Foye is the best option at backup PG and will most likely be the backup during the season. Your right mfish that offensively he’s a square peg in a round hole but on D he is better as a pg.

by BayAreaBullet on Oct 6, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions

I strongly doubt Foye starts

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Oct 6, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree

Although I am ……………… stunned – that Nick is starting the first exhibition game…. I thought it would be Mike Miller…

Matter of fact, I thought Mike had the inside track to the starting SG job…especially after watching him yesterday on Real Training Camp. The guy can flat out pass the ball… he’s deadly from outside … and he’s a great rebounder… Three things that the Wizards needed improvement from last year.

I also disagree with mfish that Foye should be the starting SG…. So far, he’s been playing PG all camp -(although Flip said he might change that as they continue along, and Randy could be playing some SG in Camp)… To expect him to start the first exhibition game at SG would be unreasonable. AND, if he doesn’t play much SG in Camp, and Miller and Young continue to impress – I don’t see how mfish can say “it’s obvious” that Foye should start at SG; especially if he plays mostly point during training camp.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Oct 6, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Should versus Would

I don’t agree that he should have been playing mostly point in training camp. The fact that he did does not mean that I think it was the right decision.

by mfish on Oct 6, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions

My eyeballs are telling me something different… Mainly that Nick Young and Mike Miller are flat out killing it in camp….

B) I trust his three point shooting more than Young/Stevenson.

Foye career 3-pt % = 37%
Miller career 3-pt% = 40%
Young career 3-pt% = 36%

Not a whole lot of difference between Foye and Young – except who they played with (ie: Foye playing with Starters in Minnesota, and Young playing with Mike James, JaVale McGee and Crittenton, etc…)

C) Didn’t we have a long analysis over the offseason that Foye was much more effective as a SG than a PG? Why are we trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?

And weren’t there a lot of people saying that a change from Minnesota might be just what the doctor ordered for Foye? At what point do you say,…. hmmmm… we got 3 shooting guards (Young, Miller and Stevenson) and a tweener (Foye) ; with no real backup to Arenas – perhaps we should show Randy how to be a really good PG…. (There’s not a better Coach to do it).. instead of asking him to guard the 13 starting SG’s in the East, all over 6’5"

D) I think he needs to be on the floor as much as possible with Gilbert to evaluate if he’s part of the long-term plan.

I think the same could be said about Young and Miller…. and Dominic McGuire….

E) Just watching him play with his quickness, I think he has a chance to be the defender that Stevenson is (and that Young will never be). I do realize that taller SGs could give him trouble.

As we watch 6’7" Joe Johnson torch Foye – posting him up over-and-over again…. or as we watch 6’6" Vince Carter rise up over 6’2" Foye over-and-over again to nail jumpers….. or as we watch 6’6" John Salmons (CHI), 6’6" Andre Iguodala (PHI), 6’5" Ray Allen (BOS), 6’6" Anthony Parker (cle) , 6’6" Quentin Richardson (NYK), 6’7" Chris Douglas-Roberts (NJN), 6’5" Raja Bell (CHA), 6’7" Rip Hamilton (DET), 6’9’ Mike Dunleavy (IND), 6’6" Michael Redd, 6’5" Marco Belinelli OR 6’7" DeMar DeRozan (TOR), and even 6’4" Dwyane Wade (MIA) exploit that size mis-match…..

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Oct 6, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions

- It’s fair and I’m glad Young is killing it in camp. But the Wizards are the most selfish team in the league in terms of assisted/easy buckets, and I have seen nothing to indicate that Young is willing to change his playing style.

- In terms of three point shooting, Foye has put up the most consistent marks. Stevenson has really struggled at times in his career and been very up and down, and Young dipped to 34% last year with a larger sample size.

- I hear you with regards to our need for a backup PG. But Foye has the highest ceiling of any of these guys, he’s never played with a talented PG before, and I think that we should put him in the best position to succeed instead of continuing to force things on him.

- Again, I believe Foye has the highest ceiling of any of these guys. Hence the comment that we need to see how he meshes with Gil.

- You’re going to kill Foye for not being able to stop Dwayne Wade, Joe Johnson and Vince Carter? Seriously though, Young shows almost no lateral quickness out there or willingness to stay in front. I’d rather Foye keep those guys in front and work through the height differences than see more Matador defense, particularly since we get no shot blocking from the four.

Good discussion though.

by mfish on Oct 6, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions

- It’s fair and I’m glad Young is killing it in camp. But the Wizards are the most selfish team in the league in terms of assisted/easy buckets, and I have seen nothing to indicate that Young is willing to change his playing style.

1. Arenas should change that – all by himself…
2. And if you’re going by assists, Mike Miller should start at SG over Foye – Miller’s a better passer, a better shooter, a better rebounder, a better defender, and he’s not 6’2" in his socks.

You’re going to kill Foye for not being able to stop Dwayne Wade, Joe Johnson and Vince Carter? Seriously though, Young shows almost no lateral quickness out there or willingness to stay in front. I’d rather Foye keep those guys in front and work through the height differences than see more Matador defense, particularly since we get no shot blocking from the four.

Again, you’re talking about Young last year….. and really, Young from the first Half of last year – since he started putting forth much more effort on defense at the end of last year. Young has all the tools to be an exceptional defender as a SG – including a 7-ft wingspan, 6’7" frame, quick hands, and despite your assertion, he has good lateral quickness for a SG….. and the last half of last year, he showed the desire – - – - – all he lacks now is the proper Coaching. THIS year, he’s getting that Coaching – and we’ve heard good things coming out of camp about his defense.

Sure – Randy Foye is quicker (because he’s 6’2" and considered a PG) – but you cannot teach size. Flip can’t come over to Randy and say – “hey Randy, on that last play, you needed to be 4 inches taller… work on that!!!…”

By the way, I guess you can tell I don’t like short guys playing SG…. never have. And, considering all the starting SG’s in the NBA that are 6’5" or bigger, I’d say that the majority of NBA Coaches agree…..

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Oct 6, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Rook-

How come Foye’s height is rounded down and in socks and everyone else’s height you list is in shoes and/or rounded up? I think you can make your point without fudging numbers.

by MR on Oct 6, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions

I totally respect your opinion

but couldn’t you just as likely say “As we watch (insert any SG with a pulse here) torching/blowing by NY over and over again”? or as “any SG gets wide open bucket after wide open bucket when NY loses his man or doesn’t go over screens”? Most of Defense is intelligence and effort IMO. Plus NY couldn’t stop an old lady from posting him. Foye is way stronger. I’m not gonna kill NY becuase maybe he figured it out and your right that he has all the physical tools to be a All-NBA defender. Having the tools and playing good D in a game aren’t neccesarily the same thing. Flip has never been known as a defensive mind(especially in teaching man defense) but maybe the fact that he actually coaches D in practice might make a big difference in NY but I’m skeptical. We have to see NY actually defend somebody before we start talking about how he is a better option at the defensively than Foye at the 2. I think your leaping to conclusions somewhat because of your professed dislike of short SG’s.

by BayAreaBullet on Oct 6, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions

sorry that was respectfully @Rook6980

by BayAreaBullet on Oct 6, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions

But if we're playing a lot of zone anyway

Size matters. Length matters.

I get your skepticism of the “he’s taller” argument, but it may actually have some merit for this team specifically.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Oct 6, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree size and length matters

As a Wizards fan I’m just leery of the “Young Player X will be much better at Y skill this season for reason Z” argument when it contradicts everything we have known about the player. I am totally not denying that the light might have come on for NY this year I just figure we should assume he will be as good at D as he was last year until we see otherwise in a game. If NY plays D like he did last year it won’t matter how tall, fast or long he is. I mean isn’t that why Oberto is ahead of McGee even though McGee is longer, taller and a better athlete(probably a better rebounder too) and finally able to practice against a legit center who can tutor him(even though apparently he’s not taking advantage of that)? I’m not gonna count NY out cuz it’s a new season with a new coach I’m just not gonna count on him to do something he has never demonstrated even the slightest ability to do in the past.

by BayAreaBullet on Oct 6, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I think Rook would argue that he played better defense than it seemed last year

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Oct 6, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah I guess we just disagree on that

by BayAreaBullet on Oct 6, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Not necessarily that NIck Young played better defense than it seemed last year -= but more specifically the last half of last year….

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Oct 7, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions

To me

NY seems the best fit in the offense as I understand it, purely from an X O standpoint. Personnel-wise I’m pulling for Miller, then Stevenson. I think Foye will be valuable as a backup PG, even if it’s not his best position.

As for DSteve, which I’m sure a lot of people will disagree with, I think he’s a good fit with the other starters. If he doesn’t start I think he’ll fall way down the depth chart, since I think NY will be the primary backup SG.

by MR on Oct 6, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions

YES!

Best news I heard all day.

Where’s pantslessyoda1 when we need him…

Let’s celebrate! I’m so stoked for him. I think it’s a great move. I hope he plays well, because I want him starting. He would be a 20 ppg guard on many teams right now, just not this one. :)

My swag was phenomenal.

by se7en on Oct 6, 2009 4:15 PM EDT reply actions