Bullets Forever: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Around SBN: Headlines: BC Beats BU 4-3 in 58th Beanpot Championship

"He's shown inconsistency," Saunders said about [Nick] Young on Tuesday. "He hasn't shown an ability to grasp everything we're trying to do, the way we, or ideally how we want to play. If one guy is screwing up your offense or defense, the whole team looks bad. I talked to him about that [on Monday]. He has to become direction oriented in order to understand what those assignments are. And be able to follow out those assignments."

Major props to Michael Lee for going after the Nick Young didn't play angle. I said in the game thread that a good reporter would do that. The result is that Lee gets this great quote from Saunders about what's wrong with Young's game.

Thumbs up, Mike.

3 months ago Bullets-forever_4458_tiny Mike Prada 71 comments 0 recs  | 

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Ouch

Oh Schnapp! Anyone we can trade him for that fits the system better?

I knew Manute Bol, and you sir are no Manute Bol!

by houserocker on Oct 28, 2009 6:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Stephen Jackson?

GSW would probably jump at Nick and Mike James’ expiring contract for Jax. Jax gives us another swingman with PG skills. He might mesh well with Gilbert and/or Foye.

If Jax keeps mouthing off and GSW gets desperate, maybe we could get them to add Turiaf for DeShawn to the deal. On our end, Turiaf gives us additional frontcourt depth. On their end, they could use DeShawn as a point forward to replace Jax. I’m sure it must be bothering Nellie to play a 6’8" SF. Nellie will be much more comfortable with 6’5" DeShawn in that role.

by yop32 on Oct 29, 2009 7:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We could roll out this lineup

PG- Stephen Jackson
SG- Mike Miller
SF- Caron Butler
PF- Dominic McGuire
C- Andre Blatche

Five point forwards!

by yop32 on Oct 29, 2009 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Secondary consideration

Contract length should not be a primary deciding factor for a team in “win now” mode. Do you think we can get talent at the level of Jax and Turiaf with shorter contracts in exchange for Nick, Mike James, and DeShawn? Talent-wise, this is a Caron for Kwame type of deal.

by yop32 on Oct 29, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe if Turiaf was thrown in

But I’m not convinced Jackson’s an upgrade on the guards we already have. He’s better than Nick and DeShawn, but I don’t think he’s better than Foye or Miller when you consider how much he chucks.

I’d prefer someone like Rip Hamilton, who has a similarly toxic contract, but is a better player. Then again, I don’t think a trade for a SG is necessary anymore. I’d say we’re better off getting another big if possible.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Oct 29, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How did Jax look when he got his ring with the Spurs?

If he was a chucker for them, Pop would have banished him to the end of the bench. Carlisle, during Jax’s time with the Pacers, is another no nonsense task master.

by yop32 on Oct 29, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

San Antonio needed someone like that on the perimeter

Tony Parker wasn’t Tony Parker. Manu Ginobili wasn’t Manu Ginobili. They needed a wing player who could use possessions. Jackson was that.

The Wizards have enough wings who can create their own shot and create for others already. Jackson’s skills aren’t as necessary.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Oct 29, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Roles

Recently, we were debating Mike Miller’s role. His outside shooting and rebounding are good fits with the first unit, but his playmaking ability seemed to be a good fit with Foye in the second unit. His lack of D was also a concern.

If we got Jax, we would have another playmaking swingman, one with good defensive ability, to help resolve the swingman rotation.

by yop32 on Oct 29, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I remember Poppovich saying . . .

“That there were a lot No, No, Yes! moments” Not sure there will be as many of those all these years later. One thing Jackson gave the Spurs was some nastiness and toughness. Even then they still got rid of him, he is kinda nuts.

"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on Oct 29, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We could use some of nastiness and toughness

Oberto has it, but he’s not going to be on the court all the time. DeShawn thinks he has it, but it’s kind of like a cranky fifth grader. Ooh, scary.

by yop32 on Oct 29, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How many point forwards are there?

It seems like we’ve stocked up a significant proportion of the NBA’s point forward population.

We have Caron, Mike Miller, Dominic, and Blatche. Admittedly, Dom and Dray might be a bit of a stretch.

The rest of league has LeBron, Grant Hill, Odom, Turkoglu, Diaw, Stephen Jackson, Luke Walton, Iguodala, Tayshaun, Terrence Williams…who am I missing?

by yop32 on Oct 29, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

he doesn’t want to come here.

Do you want an unhappy Stephen Jackson? I don;t.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by ledellforlife on Oct 29, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

is there any other kind of stephen jackson?

wiz seem to have good chemistry. i want no part of him on this roster.

"a crab dribble is when you travel" - caron butler

by little stevie colter on Oct 29, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did he say that?

I thought he just wanted to go to a winning team. We’ll be a winning team this year. I know we’re not on his preferred list (Cavs, Knicks, or any of the teams in his home state of Texas), but would he really oppose coming here?

by yop32 on Oct 29, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Young

How about Young to the Clippers for Sebastian Telfair? We could then slide Foye to the starting 2 and use Telfair as the back-up 1. MM would back up the 2 and 3.

by Izman on Oct 28, 2009 6:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that would leave the Clippers without a backup PG

since they waived Mike Taylor. Maybe they’ll also take Mike James?

Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.

by Jon L on Oct 28, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

gotta use mike james

as part of a package for someone better than telfair, i think.

"a crab dribble is when you travel" - caron butler

by little stevie colter on Oct 28, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd be all over that...

In fact I dinked that one into the trade checker on RealGm.

The only thing is Telfair has an opt out next year – which he may or may not take – so we might be looking at a one year rental there.

But yeah, that would definitely balance the roster.

by Hoopalotta on Oct 29, 2009 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trade him to

the Heat along w/ another player for Udonis Haslem

by Kevvvvv on Oct 28, 2009 7:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Clippers

The Clippers need scoring. They already have Baron Davis at the point, but not much other firepower.

Nick is from LA. He’s cool and carefree. He would play much better in LA than DC, and he would put people in the stands.

by Izman on Oct 28, 2009 8:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

First, click reply please when responding to someone

Second, the Clippers have Eric Gordon. He’s 100 times better than Young.

Third, as previously mentioned, the Clippers have no other PG on the roster other than Davis and Telfair.

Fourth, the Clippers have scoring, with Davis, Gordon, a healthy Blake Griffin and Kaman.

It makes little sense for the Clippers to give up Telfair.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Oct 28, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Young is an upside guy though....

I agree they wouldn’t trade Bassy and leave themselves without a backup to Baron, but considering that Telfair can opt out next year, they might consider Young in that he’s a lot longer than Gordan, still could develop and thus gives them a different look with some room to grow. I like Gordon quite a bit, but I don’t know what he’s a 38 minute a night kind of guy.

by Hoopalotta on Oct 29, 2009 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You might not

but it’s pretty clear the Clippers do, or close to it, given that Gordon starts.

Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.

by Jon L on Oct 29, 2009 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Be that as it may...

I still say they need a long guard backing Gordon up as on some nights the matchups just don’t work so well.

Admittedly, that doesn’t mean that Young is the answer for them, but it’s not like he wouldn’t have value.

Anyway, there’s other teams that could use a volume scorer far worse.

by Hoopalotta on Oct 29, 2009 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This thread

Does not have enough optimism. Need moar optimism! 82-0 wooo!

by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Oct 28, 2009 8:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I Think We May Have to Accept the Fact

That Nick Young has now reached bust status. He can still change that status if he dedicates himself to learning from Flip and finding his niche in the system. But more likely, he is now a lost cause. That quote from Flip is pretty damning. Ask yourself, if you were a GM and you read that quote about Nick Young from a respected and accomplished NBA head coach, would you want him on your team?

It sucks because he has another guaranteed season on his contract, so he is not even useful as a salary dump at this point. All Ernie can do is just let him keep the bench warm and hope that Nick decides at some point to rededicate himself. This sort of puts a little damper on my elated mood from last night. I had some high hopes for the kid.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Oct 28, 2009 9:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow...

How can you be so wrong? We aren’t even ten games into the season and you are saying what? WAY too early to call him a bust. Really.

by Unkle Wheez on Oct 28, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

One game may be too soon to make that call

but I really think this is the season where Nick Young has to show that he can consistently contribute, and if not then the team needs to look elsewhere. It sounds like he needs to get it into his head somehow that he can’t just sulk if he’s not shooting well, and it may take being with a different organization for him to get that.

Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.

by Jon L on Oct 28, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I strongly

Disagree. If this way Jarvis, we would be throwing him under the bus. NY might not be a bust, but he isn’t justifying his draft position.

In other news…goddamn Dejuan blair. Time for Jake to make the dead horse a running gag.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by ledellforlife on Oct 28, 2009 11:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

And how can I be so wrong? Nick Young was the 16th overall pick in a good draft. Many experts projected him to be one of the first 10 picks. He fell to us, we did not reach for him, if you recall. Ernie was planning on taking Javaris Crittenton, but was genuinely surprised when Nick was still available. Many fans and experts expected that he would be starting by his 3rd season.

It hasn’t worked out like that at all. He is now in his third season and has achieved Mike James status at the end of the bench. His coach is now publicly questioning his ability to grasp the offense. This despite spending a lot of time grooming him during the off-season.

I did not mean to imply that he cannot come back from this. In fact, I stated the exact opposite in my post. But as of right now, if you had to evaluate our first round pick from two years ago, how can you say he is not a bust? Several players drafted after him are now key contributors to their teams. Three of those guys – Wilson Chandler (23rd overall), Aaron Brooks (26th overall), and Marc Gasol (48th overall) – start for their teams. Yet Nick Young can’t even see the floor. Sometimes the truth hurts, I understand that. I was singing this guy’s praises two seasons ago. But as of right now, you can fairly call him a bust.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Oct 29, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Bust" is going way overboard

People have been saying this about Blatche for the last couple years, but they’re all quiet today. (They’ll be back the next time he has a bad game.)

Nick is still a VERY good scorer, which is a valuable thing in the league. If he can figure out how to play solid defense, he’ll be a very valuable guy. Sounds like the staff is still trying to teach him, so don’t give up on him yet. There’s still a lot of potential here; he’s just squeezed out by all the other talent right now, which is a good thing. He’s on a rookie salary, so we can afford to be a little bit patient.

by steadyhand on Oct 29, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Problem With That Argument Is

Blatche was a 2nd round draft pick. His expectations were only set high by hard-core fans like us who could see his potential. Just the fact that he was playing major minutes with us into his 4th season in the league proved he was not a bust based on where he was taken. Maddeningly inconsistent, but not a bust.

Young, on the other hand, is now 24 years old, one year older than Blatche. He was drafted much higher and had greater expectations overall. He is in his third season and is now Mike James to us. Saying he is a bust does not mean he can’t turn things around, or that he cannot still contribute to this team. But I think it is safe to say that he has not, and probably never will, live up to the expectations he had based on his relatively high draft position.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Oct 29, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well.....
Ask yourself, if you were a GM and you read that quote about Nick Young from a respected and accomplished NBA head coach, would you want him on your team?

if I were the Charlotte Bobcats, I might still want him on my team. N1-on-5 could net more than 59 points maybe.

by Hoopalotta on Oct 29, 2009 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

I should have taken into account so-called GM’s like Michael Jordan. Too bad Isaiah Thomas isn’t a GM anymore, then we might have two teams to shop Nick Young to right now.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Oct 29, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damning Analysis From Michael Lee
Young certainly improved from last season to this season, after working with Saunders and assistant Coach Sam Cassell. He doesn’t try the “herky-jerky” dribbling to get his shot off as much and has developed into a better catch-and-shoot scorer. But if his shot doesn’t fall, Young continues to sulk and lose track of making an impact elsewhere.

He admitted last week that he struggles when his shot doesn’t fall, something that assistant Randy Wittman has urged him to fight through. “It’s kinda tough being a young guy and trying to do so well,” Young said.

We all felt for the guy when we saw him hang his head after a couple of missed shots his rookie and even his sophomore seasons, but now it’s time for the lad to grow up a little. This isn’t elementary school, it’s the NBA. He should have learned to shake things off by now. If his shot isn’t falling, he should focus on his defense and maybe even setting up his teammates a little, considering his piss poor assist numbers. But instead he continues to sulk as if people are going to feel sorry for a first round NBA draft pick making millions of dollars playing basketball for a living. He needs to snap out of it or his career might just be over.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Oct 28, 2009 9:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah mr prada, i remember u pointing out that someone would catch the ny no playing time thing

by stanis on Oct 28, 2009 9:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ouch

Not good news for McGee either. I anxiously await Rook’s reaction to this post. (not sarcasm)

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by ledellforlife on Oct 28, 2009 10:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Well

We saw in Preseason that Nick had the same shortcomings as last year…. So-defense (although I think everyone can agree that he’s at least trying harder on defense); no rebounding; no assists.

He did seem to make the adjustments to his game to become a better shooter coming off screens – not dribbling the ball so much – and getting his shots within the confines of the Offense….

But with better and more consistent options available (Foye, Miller, Stevenson), it’s apparent to even me that Young is not in the regular rotation; and quite possibly not even in the top 10…

I really don’t see how he can improve his court vision and get more assists…. and although he’s got the height and jumping ability, I don’t see him as ever becoming a good rebounder… That leaves defense… I still believe he can be an elite defender. Especially against the taller Shooting Guards in the East (and there are a LOT of them)..

Unfortunately, he had his chance this Summer – and it appears he worked a lot on his Offensive game (coming off screens, catch-and-shoot, etc….) – but he looks like the same below-average defender as last year. My guess is that he will be packaged in a trade with James (and perhaps McGee or McGuire) at the Deadline.

And then, depending on the team he goes to, we could see him as an explosive “microwave” type bench guy. But unless he learns to play better defense, he’ll never be a starting SG in this League.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Oct 28, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Give it time

He’s no bust yet.

I wonder what everyone’s reaction would have been if that quote had come from EJ or Taps!

by MR on Oct 28, 2009 11:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

They said essentially the same kind of things

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Oct 28, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

and everyone around here skewered them for those kind of quotes.

I just find it funny that the first time Flip says it everyone is trading NY.

by MR on Oct 29, 2009 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One of the major differences is that there's actually legit talent in front of Nick

Rather than Dominic McGuire, Javaris Crittenton or a completely ineffective DeShawn Stevenson.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Oct 29, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly

I respect Flip’s opinion more than I respect Eddie’s. Eddie does not have a track record of developing any young talent, so I would have taken such a quote from him with a grain of salt. Eddie also did not devote that much time to Nick, making it clear that Nick would have to earn Eddie’s attention/favor.

Flip, on the other hand, is a much more accomplished coach with a track record of developing young talent from his Minnesota days. He made a genuine effort to work with Nick this off-season and try to integrate him into this team, where I do not doubt that he has the talent to contribute. But Nick’s effort, attitude, and work ethic obviously do not match his talent so far.

Plus, Eddie said those things during Nick’s rookie and sophomore seasons. Nick is now in his third season, so his progression is expected to be further along.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Oct 29, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um...

Eddie did do a pretty good job of developing young guys. Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler were both still young when they came here, and they’ve become All-Stars. Roger Mason, Jr made a name for himself playing under Eddie Jordan. Dominic McGuire developed from a second-round pick/ last man off the bench into a very consistent and reliable performer under Jordan… Sure, he played his best season under Ed Tapscott, but Jordan deserves a lot of credit for that. Eddie Jordan’s problem with young players is that he never figured out how to motivate the unmotivated ones (NY, Pecherov).

"One-on-one? You can't." -Gilbert Arenas
JC Bandwagon all day!

by kseandoyle on Oct 29, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Think You Got My Point
Eddie Jordan’s problem with young players is that he never figured out how to motivate the unmotivated ones (NY, Pecherov).

I agree with that. But that is where a good head coach can make a difference. If the player worked hard at developing his game all by himself, he eventually found EJ’s favor. I would argue that the examples you gave were of self-motivated players who would have been successful regardless of whether they ever played for Eddie.

But if the player struggled, instead of Eddie working with that player closely and encouraging him, he left that player out in the cold. Player interviews have given me that impression. Eddie was a veterans’ coach, for more than one reason.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Oct 29, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

While no fan of his game, I never thought Pech’s problem was that he was unmotivated.

by MR on Oct 29, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nor do I think that Young is unmotivated. Also, I cannot see how you can make a blanket statement that Young lacks effort, attitude, and work ethic….

The results may not be there…. but I hardly think anyone here can really say he has not put forth the effort or that he has a lousy attitude… Certainly, Flip Saunders NEVER said that.

What he did say was that Nick was not grasping the Offense in it’s entirety. He has never questioned Nick’s effort, desire, work ethic, attitude or any other “intangibles” that you could throw out there.. willy nilly.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Oct 29, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's What Flip Said
He has to become direction oriented in order to understand what those assignments are. And be able to follow out those assignments.

What do you think Flip meant by “direction oriented”? I took that to mean that he wasn’t listening to the direction he was being given. In other words, he was tuning out the advice and instruction Flip and his assistant coaches were trying to impart to Nick.

If you want to know how I can make the blanket statement about Nick’s work ethic, attitude, or effort, I think it’s a case of simple reductionist logic. Obviously, there is some reason Nick has not progressed. Is it a lack of talent? I don’t think so. Bad coaching? I thought that, but now that Flip is having the same problems, I’m starting to doubt it. I honestly did not think about the learning disability that nate33 mentioned below, so I excluded that. I was left with the three areas I mentioned.

Perhaps it is not so much that he lacks effort or work ethic, but I left that open as a possibility. More than likely, it’s his attitude. Now, there are different kinds of bad attitudes. I’m not saying that he is rebellious towards the coaching. What I personally think is that he gets too down on himself when he makes mistakes, and allows it to get inside his head and affect his ability to follow through on his other assignments. That’s the sense I got from reading Mike Lee’s blog post, in any case.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Oct 29, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pech May Not Have Had the Talent

If he did have the talent, then it needed to be developed via a mentor. Usually, that mentor is the head coach. It’s not a made-up concept that some people can teach themselves, while others need to be taught. It takes a lot more discipline, confidence, and hard work to teach yourself, and not everybody has that.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Oct 29, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No Trade Needed

I can see Nick Young finding a role on this team if given the opportunity later in the season. I wouldn’t be eager to trade any of our young guys until they get a better feel for the system. NO TRADE TALK….

by DaGribb on Oct 29, 2009 1:15 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd say

DeJuan Blair would have fit our squad _ smh

by Kevvvvv on Oct 29, 2009 2:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow

This post should have been entitled, “Welcome to Over-Reaction City.” It’s really beautiful here — the sights, the smells, the knee-jerk reactions.

A coach has a number of good veteran players at the same position as a guy starting his third year in the league, and the coach doesn’t play him in one game and instead tells him what weaknesses he needs to work on. And everyone jumps immediately on the He’s a Bust, Trade Him Bandwagon? Is there no patience in Washington that will allow players time to grow and improve? Maybe the Wizards should do what the Redskins do and trade all their draft choices for veterans (wait, the Wizards did just that last June …). Maybe the Wizards should only draft guys who are 25 or older. I guess the Wizards should trade McGee, too.

Sorry, visiting Over-Reaction City has caused me to over-react.

(My actual thought is that it is too early in Flip’s tenure for him to make the bold move to bench Stevenson in favor of Young.)

by disgrunted on Oct 29, 2009 9:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Disagree

I can’t speak for everybody, but since I was the first one here to call Nick Young a bust, I’ll assume you were referring to me.

A coach has a number of good veteran players at the same position as a guy starting his third year in the league, and the coach doesn’t play him in one game and instead tells him what weaknesses he needs to work on.

That’s nice spin, but Flip could have easily just said, “Nick’s just a victim of our depth at the guard position. He’ll get his chances to prove himself, he just needs to focus on improving certain aspects of his game.” That’s how a coach explains a decision without stirring up controversy. Instead, he basically said that Nick doesn’t listen to the coaches, breaks the offense, and makes everybody else on the team look bad. Flip had to know that he would grab media attention with his choice of words, he’s too experienced of a head coach to not understand the ramifications of what he was saying. He was clearly sending a message to Nick Young publicly. One can only assume that this was because his private messages were not getting through. I don’t think it’s an overreaction to say that.

Is there no patience in Washington that will allow players time to grow and improve?

On the contrary, Wizards fans are endlessly patient. We gave Kwame years to prove himself and there were still many fans who wished we were more patient with him when he finally got traded. We’ve been patient with Andray, despite gripes about his inconsistency. We kept giving Pecherov the benefit of the doubt, even when it was clear he wasn’t improving his game. And we’ve all been waiting for Nick Young, giving him the benefit of the doubt (myself included) despite his inconsistent play.

Sometimes, you just have to be realistic about a guy. He’s a mid-1st round draft pick entering his 3rd NBA season, and his game hasn’t gotten noticeably any better. At this point in his career, he has failed to live up to his expectations. That, by my definition, makes him a bust.

I don’t look at this as being set in stone. I hope Nick Young gets the message that Flip was clearly sending him and rededicates himself to this team and our system, both offensively and defensively. But the odds are now stacked against him. His best opportunity may be on another team.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Oct 29, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I wasn’t referring to you, CJ. I just skimmed through all the comments and most everyone seemed to take that view.

But why are we arguing? The Wiz are 1-0, and the Cavs are 0-2. We should be spraying each other with champagne.

by disgrunted on Oct 29, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nick is a slow learner

It has been mentioned by those in the know that Nick has a learning disability. Also, judging by interviews, he’s probably not the brightest player in the NBA. It doesn’t surprise me that he has failed to memorize all 300 pages of Flip’s playbook in one offseason, particularly since Flip’s playbook is so completely different for EJ’s, both offensively and defensively.

He is working at a disadvantage relative to his fellow SG’s. Foye and Miller played for Whitman and know much of Flip’s system. Stevenson has 8 years if experience and a high basketball IQ and seems to absorb new playbooks immediately. (Remember how fast he learned the Princeton?). Nick is a relatively young player who only knows EJ’s Princeton system.

My take on Flip’s comments is that he doesn’t think Nick hasn’t sufficiently grasped the system at this early stage in the season so he’s the odd man out in the rotation. That doesn’t mean he’s a bust. It probably means that Nick has to study and practice for a few more weeks before Flip is comfortable with him. Nick will get a chance eventually.

by nate33 on Oct 29, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Good Points

I took more from Flip’s comments than you did, but I did not take into account Nick’s learning disability when assessing the situation. I suppose it is possible that we need to give him more time to develop than the average player because of it. I do worry, though, that Nick is just as likely to become depressed over Flip’s harsh critique rather than use it as motivation to focus harder on becoming a contributor to this team. And the fact remains that he has not lived up to his expectations yet. Time will tell if he ever will.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Oct 29, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its a long season

and it was just one game. I can easily see Nick getting some of Stevenson’s minutes if Deshawn continues shooting airballs. I think Nick will get his chance soon.

by hotplate on Oct 29, 2009 12:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If NY doesn’t hit 40 points in a game by next tuesday I say we trade him. We just can’t afford to wait more than a week into the season to make a judgment.

I wish we could have traded him at halftime. Lazy GM.

by MR on Oct 29, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How About Two Seasons and One Week

Can we evaluate the situation then? Or should we wait a full four seasons like we did with Kwame? He’s got to play up to his potential eventually, right?

Seriously, I’m not going to rule out the possibility that he might become a contributor on this team this season. I hope he does. But I’m just not going to get my hopes that high for him anymore.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Oct 29, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ve never been a fan of NY’s game, in fact I think I’ve been one of his leading detractors here all along. But even I think that giving up on him this early because he hasn’t grasped the new offense is a bit silly.

Just a few weeks ago there were posts calling for him to start. Now everyone is trading him. One game into the season.

I think the flip-floppery is inconsistent with the high level of analysis around here and smacks of other, less thoughtful sites.

by MR on Oct 29, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

comments not directed at cuppettcj, but at the group

by MR on Oct 29, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

I have been a leading NY detractor for quite a while, and was stating during the offseason that he might be one of our better assets to make a trade at the deadline for another quality big.

The problem as I see it is that this situation has become Groundhog’s Day. Despite all the talk about the Rip Hamilton catch and shoot, I still see too much dribbling and I still see too many fadeaways. And the problem is that those tendencies tend to break the system, whether its EJ’s, ET’s, or Flip’s. Everyone knows that Nick can score, but that has never been a problem for this team. We need something more that a one dimensional talent at this point.

As for taking Stevenson’s minutes…why? Stevenson is being brought in to play defense, not provide offense. Unless Nick starts making a consistent effort in practice to lock down his man, I don’t see him stepping in to D-Steve’s place.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by ledellforlife on Oct 29, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To tell the truth

I threw out the question about NY’s trade value more to be sarcastic than to express any real desire to trade him. There are worse things to have sitting on your bench than young, talented scorers. I feel no real urgency to move ANY of our end of the bench players. They are all valuable replacements in the event of injury, at the very least. I don’t know how strictly Flip is going to stick to his rotation, but it’s nice to know that you have players that provide a spark, either on O (NY),or D (JaVale, DMac) and a veteran 1 like James could be money in the event, God help us , of injury. I just love this team, starters and bench, I just wish for one more veteran big, although I think that McGuire will carve out a valuable place for himself before the season is over.

I knew Manute Bol, and you sir are no Manute Bol!

by houserocker on Oct 29, 2009 5:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Haters

All of you are haters.

I’ll love Nick Young til the death.

My swag was phenomenal.

by se7en on Oct 29, 2009 11:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Washington Wizards.
Start posting about the Wizards »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Mrlogo_small
Don't blow it up.  Disassemble.
Mriggs_cartoon_2__small
My dream trades

Recent FanPosts

Chesspiece-web_small
JaVale "Patty Flippin" McGee
Homer_small
Would you be willing to stand pat just for one more chance at lEbron James and the Cavaliers?
Unseld_small
Keep Brendan Haywood
Small
2010 Draft Possibilities
Bullets-forever_4458_small
The official trade rumors thread (Updated 1/22)
Screen-capture-15_small
What Would You Do?
Small
Trade Talked about on NBA TV ( J.R. Smith)
Small
It is time for a change.

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS


Lead editors

Bullets-forever_4458_small Mike Prada

Peytontrophy_small JakeTheSnake

Mriggs_cartoon_2__small Rook6980

Contributing editors

Big_small Truth About It

Contributing writers

Addingmachine_small bwoodsxyz