It doesn't look like McGee will be getting any more minutes anytime soon
by Jake Whitacre on Jan 25, 2009 11:55 PM EST
in Coaching
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PrintSomehow I get the feeling that if Ed Tapscott had a suggestion box it would be full of little pieces of paper that say "PLAY MCGEE!" Well, Tap has read the suggestions from hypothetical suggestion box and he has this to say:
"You can throw a guy in and you can end up hurting his development by doing that. If you put him in and he's overwhelmed, he's not able to play the game that builds confidence. The other thing, too, is that you want to establish a certain culture within your team where you reward work ethic, approach and all those things too. You don't give things to people, people earn them. They earn them through solid play and making contributions. Otherwise, you can destroy the fabric of your team. You don't do that for any one player ever."
A few scattered thoughts on that quote:
- I'm tempted to throw out the double standard card when it comes to talking about JaVale not getting time when he makes mistakes while more experience players can make similar mistakes and continue to get heavy minutes. But then I remind myself that at this point the veterans are who they are at this point. Benching them for their mistakes won't help them correct their problems. JaVale can still learn from his mistakes and sometimes that means learning from the pine.
- At 9-34, I'd argure that the fabric of the team is already irrevocably torn so there's no real point in worrying about tearing that fabric anymore than it's already been torn.
- Ed talks about rewarding players with "work ethic, approach, and all of those things." Certainily, you want to reward those traits on a basketball team, but we've never heard any indictments on JaVale's work ethic. In fact, Tap said that McGee was working hard just a few paragraphs before that quote. He has legitimate points about JaVale still needing to get better things other than running and dunking, but I can't help but get the feeling that JaVale is getting mixed signals when they talk about rewarding a strong work ethic and JaVale not getting the PT to go along with it.
- Can anyone think of a player whose development was stunted by playing too many minutes when they were young? That's not a rhetorical question, I'm honestly trying to think of someone who's been hurt by playing too many minutes when they weren't ready. The fear of rewarding bad habits and stunting growth seems legitimate, I just can't seem to think of an example of that happening. Can someone help me out on this?
- Like most of you, I'm not a big fan of how JaVale's minutes in the Tapscott regime. But let's not forget that since he's come on board the Wizards are 8-24. That doesn't seem like a lot at first, but that is a better record that Eddie Jordan had with the team this year and in all honesty, probably isn't far off the record that the team should have given their current talent level. He's not the second coming of Phil Jackson, but he has helped improve the team in some areas. Let's not forget about that.
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I have no problem with that
I completely trust Tapscott and Grunfeld on this (although perhaps I’m the only one here who does). The things everyone here seems to be forgetting on this topic:
1) There is a lot we don’t see, particularly practice time. Who knows what habits McG has at practice? Not me. Not you.
2) There is a thing called the rookie wall. I’d rather have McG building minutes as the season progresses than play a lot of early minutes and trail off. We are at the midpoint in the season. There are still twice as many games left as he has ever played in a year.
I disagree that the fabric of the team is torn. We’re losing. We all hate it. But the structure of the team remains. Bench a key vet whose contributions you’ll need down the road in favor of a rookie and you risk messing with team chemistry.
As to the player development stunting question, how about Marbury. That’s just off the top of my head. Throw in D Coleman since we’re there. Darius Miles. Kwame. Jason Williams. Tyson Chandler. Curry. Webber.
Most of those examples don't really hold water
Kwame was treated like JaVale. Tyson Chandler and Chris Webber turned out pretty well. Jason Williams was quite good for a little while, even though he couldn’t shoot. Derrick Coleman was an outstanding player until he stopped caring, which has nothing to do with player development because it didn’t happen until his fourth or fifth year in the league.
Mayyyybe Darius Miles and Eddy Curry work.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Fair points
- You’re right that none of us know what McGee’s work habits are like except for those in the locker room, but Ed Tapscott was the one that said he was working hard, only to later say that they were rewarding work ethic and approach. That’s what I find confusing. Maybe one of those quotes is taken out of context, but it just seems to me like they’re sending mixed signals.
- Agreed on the rookie wall, I hadn’t considered that point.
- You’re probably right on the fabric of the team part too, I’m probably just overreacting to the team’s performance over the last few games.
- Thanks for those examples. While I don’t agree with all of them, they convinced me that I was looking at that the wrong way. I think I was looking for a bust, but I guess if you’re good enough to get playing time in the league early in your career, chances are good that you’re not going to end up a bust. The worst case scenario would be a flawed player who never improved his weaknesses because the team never messed with his minutes to encourage development of those weak areas. Would Stromile Swift fit that billing?
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by Jake Whitacre on Jan 26, 2009 8:22 AM EST up reply actions
What is the complete trust based on?
This seems like you’re making a general statement that the fans needs to trust the coach. You don’t give any reason for trusting this particular GM or this particular (interim) coach.
1) There is a lot we don’t see. Okay, well we have equal access to Javale’s performance in games against other NBA teams, and it merits, especially on this 9-34 team and when its a choice between him or Songaila, more playing time than he is receiving.
2)McGee has not been building minutes as the season progresses. He avg’d 20 mpg in November, 10 in December, and 12 in January (including 4 DNP’s in a row). That is part of the problem there has been no gradual increase in McGee’s playing time or his role on the team, McGee has not been able to have any comfort zone within which he feels free to develop as a player and make mistakes.
What is the Wizards structure? And hows that been working out for us, we are talking about the same 9-34 team right? Will it really mess up team chemistry to take Songaila down to 10-15 mpg, and give McGee those extra minutes and keep Songaila at forward as much as possible? Does our teams chemistry really rely on watching Songaila get his salad tossed night in and night out by true centers?
by morethesamewiz on Jan 26, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Grunfeld has shown he knows what he’s doing, that he can build a winner. Taps is his pick. So I trust them. They have a lot more information than I do, so what do I base a criticism on?
Songila does a lot of little things right. McG does a lot of little things wrong. I think McG gets a lot out of watching and learning.
I will agree that if McG is still averaging less than 15 minutes a game during the last 15 games it will be disappointing, unless Haywood is back.
You aren't getting it
It’s not about how good the players are or their skill development. It’s about their personal development. Give someone too much too early and they may not be able to handle it, may not have proper perspective.
Chandler is the perfect example. Sure he’s playing well…but FOR ANOTHER TEAM. He had to have that “change of scenery” because in Chicago he was trying to do too much because they were handing him huge minutes before they knew what kind of player he was.
Webber is a similar story. His time in DC was marked by awesome dunks and immaturity. He got his points, rebounds, and assists, but could never get the team over the hump because he was an immature brat. It took expulsion to Sacramento for him to come around.
Jason Williams never really learned how to run a team for the same reasons. I loved watching him and he had great skills, but he always made dumb mistakes.
Coleman never started caring, another spoiled brat.
This is not about skill development, it’s about brain development.
Nobodys saying play McGee 30-40 mpg...
Just no more single digit minutes and DNPs.
by morethesamewiz on Jan 26, 2009 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Jamison
The most hilarious part of Ivan’s story is this quote from Antawn:
“Just play those guys and lose games?” Jamison asked. “No, no, no. I’m not going to be a part of that. We’re still trying to win games. Those guys have to earn their minutes and learn how to be professionals. That’s how it is in this league.”
Somebody administer smelling salts to Antawn. Yeah, we don’t want to play the young guys and lose games!
And while we’re on the subject, Antawn, how many minutes have ANY players on a 9-34 team earned? Have you earned minutes by not caring one whit on defense?
JaVale HAS PLAYED WELL in the limited time he’s gotten; he’s deserving of more, plain and simple. Nobody here’s saying he should be getting 40 mpg; but I can’t see anyone credibly making the case that he should be getting 5 or 6 mpg, either. For me, 20-25 mpg seems about right.
“He’s coming along gradually,” Butler said. “You pick your spots to put him out there. He’s going to make mistakes, but then again, he brings a lot. So let his play dictate how you play him. If he’s off to a good start, let him run. If not, you’re going to sit and talk to him and teach him.”
See, that’s the part I don’t understand.
During a game against Chicago earlier this year, McGee blocked like 4 shots in the first 5 minutes of the game… was pulled, and never played again.
There are a lot of different subtleties and intangibles to being an effective player for sustained minutes.
More Tapscott double-talk BS. The Kid may not have the “subtleties and intangibles” (like Songaila?, like Mike James?) – but his pure raw athletic ability compensates for that most of the time.
The more I see and hear from Tapscott, the more I think he should never be allowed to Coach. He is certainly a very smart man, with vast basketball knowledge. He can communicate. He’s proven to be a valuable asset in the Management of a Professional Basketball team. He’d probably make a pretty good GM. BUT as a Head Coach, he is terrible.
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What Caron said
Is the very definition of irony. “He’s going to make mistakes” says Caron, right after a game in which he had nine turnovers. This team is beyond parody.
And that's the problem.
Antawn, Caron et al. are talking about how everyone else is playing, conveniently overlooking the fact that he and ’Tawn are two of the very worst defenders in the league. They are the leaders of this horrific team. Maybe if they led by example on the defensive end, the Wiz might have a few more wins.
While we're listing players
Can folks tell me what centers have come into the league and gotten big minutes during their rookie season? I’d be particularly interested if those players had 2 or less years of college/pro experience. It would be interesting to compare to McG’s 14-ish average.
Here you go
Dwight Howard, rookie season (out of high school, not two years of college): 32. 6 mpg
Eddie Curry: 16 mpg
Tyson Chandler: 19.6 mpg
Kwame (sorry): 14.3 mpg
Andrew Bogut: 28.6 mpg
Al Horford: 31.4 mpg
Chris Kaman: 22.5 mpg
McGee’s been averaging about 11 mpg under Tapscott. And I think he’s shown more potential than all but a few of those guys (I’d say Howard and Horford.)
Great, so
Curry, Chandler, Kwame were busts (ie none of them worked out for the team that drafted them) and I think all help prove my point.
Dwight Howard was a special case, a complete physical freak. Horford was close and had 3 years of major major big time college ball.
Bogut was #1 overall and was a lot more NBA ready than McG.
Kaman is a good example of a rookie center that benefitted from lots of minutes early.
How do they prove your point?
I don’t see how you can make the connection that they played too much, and that being overplayed somehow affected them.
You can also make the case that McGee is a “complete physical freak.” In fact, he’s already been compared (by NBA players) to Howard in terms of athletic ability.
Remember also that McGee’s minutes have been chopped under Taps. You can’t take his total minutes, because they’re under different coaches.
The point is that you don’t want to throw too much at a young player too fast. That goes for playing, mentally, and expectations.
Curry, Chandler, and Kwame all went out too fast too early and all would have been better served watching and learning from a smart, experienced player.
Expectations?
We’re 9-34. We aren’t expecting McGee to be a savior.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Look we can find them:
Shaq
Duncan
Wes Unseld
Amare
Okafor
Gasol
Robinson
Sampson
Howard
Horford
Does McG really look like those players to you?
Oh, Please.
Stop with those absurd hypothetical comparisons. We have no idea how good McGee can be — I don’t, and you don’t either. But you’re automatically assuming he can’t. Athletically, he matches up very well with most of that list. Of course, that’s a long way from performing like anyone on that list — but we won’t know how good he can be until he plays.
And are you really trying to make the argument that 20-25 mpg would somehow damage his growth? If you are, please go ahead and make it. I’m not asking him to carry the team; rather, to have sensible minutes that will allow for growth and still not overwhelm him. You think 20-25 mpg wouldn’t do that for him?
I don’t think McG won’t be good, great even. Who knows? I’d say he probably will be.
But if you look at the list (above) of centers who played a lot early and went on to have great careers they were all either way more physically ready, way more mentally ready, way more basketball ready or (very likely) all three.
What we have is about the rawest of raw rookies I’ve ever seen.
If the basketball professionals who are with him every day think he’s better off playing 10 minutes at this point instead of 20 then I’m going to go ahead and trust them on that.
If Arenas and Haywood were to come back fully healthy tomorrow I think we’d be a very good team. The team hasn’t been lost yet. They haven’t given up. They haven’t stopped giving effort. Start throwing un-ready players out there and developing bad habits then who knows.
if McG was playing 20-25 minutes a game starting now for the rest of the season I think he’d be burned out by the last 15 games. As I said before, unless Haywood is taking minutes in the last 15-20 games, I expect McG to be getting above 15 per game by then, probably 20.
I’m just sick of everyone crying about the rookie’s minutes all the time. Yeah he’s fun to watch. Yeah, the season sucks. Yeah, Taps doesn’t seem like the next coming of Red Auerbach. But quit calling for the guy to be fired because he’s holding his super raw 21 year old rookie on a short leash.
if McG was playing 20-25 minutes a game starting now for the rest of the season I think he’d be burned out by the last 15 games. As I said before, unless Haywood is taking minutes in the last 15-20 games, I expect McG to be getting above 15 per game by then, probably 20.
What fact, knowledge, or tidbit of information that you have would give you ANY indication that JaVale McGee will be playing more at the end of the season? – (besides your own ESP, “feeling”, or intuition)..
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Just a guess. And as I said above, if he’s not getting more minutes around game 65 then I’ll be disappointed (unless some other factor comes along).
by MR on Jan 26, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
If the basketball professionals who are with him every day think he’s better off playing 10 minutes at this point instead of 20 then I’m going to go ahead and trust them on that.
See, THAT’s the problem. He’s not getting 10 minutes per night.
Just in the last 6 games:
Jan 24 05:46 in a blowout loss to Portland
Jan 22 22:55 in a blowout loss to LA Lakers (2nd night of a back-to-back)
Jan 21 11:00 in a Win at Sacramento
Jan 19 5:00 in a blowout loss to Golden State
Jan 16 4:00 in a close Win over New York
Jan 14 16:00 in a close loss to New York
Win, Lose…. Blowout, close game……. it doesn’t seem to matter. His minutes are jerked around.
So, Yeah – he’s AVERAGING 10.5 minutes per game; but the inconsistency is mind boggling – and has to be playing with the kid’s head. ( “What did I do wrong in the Lakers game to be punished with only 5 minutes in the Portland game?” ; “Why did I get 16 minutes against New York one night, but two nights later only 4 minutes, against the same team?” )
You could ask the same questions about Nick Young – Like: “Why did Nick only see 8 seconds in the 1st half against Portland?” As the Wizards had trouble in the first half scoring (they only had 31 points TOTAL in the first half) – did Tapscott just FORGET that he had a prolific scorer sitting on the bench? – - – Well, I won’t go there – since this post is supposed to be about McGee and his minutes……………….
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If McGee is the "rawest of raw rookies..."
…You’ve ever seen, then you haven’t seen much basketball. His PER, according to Hollinger at ESPN, is above the league average. In fact, it’s second among rookies last I checked. Hollinger also called him a “stud in the making.” He has seen, in fact, what most of the others on this board have seen: a freak of an athlete who plays hard, hustles like mad, and changes the way the opposing offense plays, because they have to worry about his presence.
And makes lots of rookie mistakes.
Who do I believe, Holinger or my own lying eyes?
by MR on Jan 26, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Lots of eyes...
Around here, besides yours, watch the games. And we see something completely different than you do. We see statistics that reinforce what our eyes tell us. Your eyes are probably the lying ones, since the numbers don’t back up what you’re seeing.
careful MR
…or you’re gonna make me agree with Hollinger, and you know how I HATE that.
If McGee had been playing 5-10 minutes all season, I’d be more liable to agree with you. But I think we’ve got to factor in that the kid was playing ~30/game and starting under Eddie Jordan. And it’s not like Jordan has a history of being kind to his rookies or anything. What I saw during the first 10 games of the season was a rookie that had tons of raw talent, and also a lot of beginner’s jitters. As he got more consistent minutes, those jitters started to subside and we started hearing players like Dwight Howard comment on how good they thought the kid would be. Then Tap comes in, is completely overmatched by the challenge of managing this team (my stance isn’t that he should have them winning necessarily – that’s on the players. But clearly the guy has no idea how to manage minutes effectively). Now every time I see McGee in the game, he’s got those jitters again, and I for one can’t blame him. Miss one Oop or defensive assignment, and you’re done for the game. Name for me one player in this league who performs well under that pressure.
McGee has taken a huge step back in his development, and he’s done so while the team continues to be one of the two or three worst in the entire league.
I’ve argued on this board in years past that we should trust that the coaches are seeing things in practice that we aren’t (Blatche discussion two seasons ago, in particular). But this is a different story. The team isn’t any good AT ALL, and the only options are A)Grunfeld and Tap have a brilliant secret plan for turning this team into a championship contender, and yanking around McGee’s minutes is a key element of it, or B)Grunfeld’s team isn’t performing nearly as he expected – partially because of injuries — and he’s hired an interim coach who is so far out of his depth that he’s just trying shit at random with no plan whatsoever.
I believe it’s B. Grunfeld has proven over they years that he’s good at drafting people. He hasn’t proven that he can coax championships out of his squads. And there’s a bit of luck in the drafting well. Tapscott is giving every sign that he’s out of his element, and in the process it sure looks like he’s screwing up the very basic assignment given to an assistant coach: build the team for the future. That cannot be good for player development, nor can consistent DNPs for a player with huge upside who was rewarded with starter’s minutes earlier in the season.
Let me ask you, as it stands now, do you think there’s ANY chance McGee wants to stay a Wizard long-term?
C) Taps is running the team the same way he would be if they were healthy and in the playoff hunt: It’s a veteran’s league and the young guys have to wait till they are ready. Even if you’re losing. This is not a scenario that I think would work for say OKC because at their heart they are not a veteran team. But the Wizards are. I think Taps wants to keep the team as level headed as possible so that say when Brendan comes back he doesn’t have a rookie (or second year player) thinking he can claim his spot.
by MR on Jan 26, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
You State...
“if McG was playing 20-25 minutes a game starting now for the rest of the season I think he’d be burned out by the last 15 games.”
Are you kidding? 20-25 mpg would burn a player out? What, is he 10 years old? That’s not exactly a grueling load.
Tapscott is willing to sacrifice wins for the development of his players.
Really!
Tapscott seems to implicitly acknowledge that playing McGee more would result in more wins. McGee is a freak and has played well in limited minutes. Tapscott doesn’t come out and say it, but I bet he knows the team would be winning more games with all of McGee’s dunks and blocks. But he doesn’t care about wins.
Instead of being scared of losses, Tapscott gives two reasons for being hesitant to play McGee more: his development, and establishing a culture. You might disagree with both of those reasons, but Tapscott is doing what everyone has been clamoring for him to do: forget about possible losses and concentrate on the development of his players.
Maybe he is a Director of Player Development after all.
I think we're going overboard
I agree with your general point, but does anyone really think we’d win more with McG? I mean, he’s fun to watch. He gets some blocks, some near blocks, some fun slams…but for every good play, I usually count one or more lost assignments, fumbled passes/rebounds etc.
Let’s keep some perspective. He looks promising, but he’s a raw rookie. And rookies cost you games.
by MR on Jan 26, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
And WHICH games did McGee cost us?
Maybe we should be asking which games the Wizards lost as a result of playing an injured and ineffective Stevenson…..
Or maybe we should be asking which games the Wizards lost as a result of playing 6’9" Darius Songaila at Center along with 6’9" Jamison and 6’7" Caron Butler against teams with HUGE front lines?
Or maybe we should be asking which games the Wizards lost because they don’t have a shot blocking presence and allowed the lane to become a freeway to the Hoop?
The Wizards are 9-34. For Tapscott (or anyone else) to suggest they would be WORSE by giving JaVale McGee a consistent 15 minutes per night is ludicrous.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Well, but he's not
forget about possible losses and concentrate on the development of his players.
Because he talks about playing the veterans, not giving up on the season, etc. etc. The playing time bears this out — you see veterans get pretty much all of the court time and you see the young guys, McGee included, getting very few minutes.
Neither of those reasons really hold up. McGee’s play has slacked off since the beginning of the year, when he was receiving more consistent minutes. He played better and was developing when given the chance to show what he could do. Secondly, what culture have we established here? The culture where the entire team lays an egg against Portland. The culture where Caron Butler can’t care to play defense or drive to the basket? The culture where Mike James is allowed to shot-jack, fail to get back on defense and stand lead-footed as guys whiz right by him? The culture that has led us to 9-34? Why are we trying to hold onto that precious “culture?”
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Mind you, I'm not attacking you
Because I think you hit Taps’ thought process on the head. I’m attacking Taps.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
It's cool, I get it. I'm not defending the content of Tapscott's decisions.
Your points about Tapscott talking about playing the veterans and not giving up on the season are good ones. These could be recast in terms of player development or culture as well, though. Or maybe I’m giving him too much credit.
You’ve made the point that playing the young players is better for their development and helps the team win games. I thought it was interesting that Tapscott might agree with the winning games part, even though we’ve assumed the opposite. Tapscott could have easily tried to justify his rotation by saying it gives the team the best chance to win in the short term. He didn’t go there though in this article.
I think Tapscott is a smart guy and has the best interests of the team at heart. Starting from there and going to his seemingly awful rotations isn’t obvious.
I agree- When he was playing, he was getting better
I don’t go in for the theory that young players can learn bad habits by playing; and that they need practice time to develop. The best developmental tool is playing in actual games. That is the only place where the game is played at full tilt. You cannot recreate that in practice. You cannot learn a physical skill from watching it done – you must DO it. Yes, practice the skill – over and over again ; THEN try to apply that skill in the game and make adjustments. Then back to practice to work on what didn’t work in the game.
We saw the budding development of McGee early in the year. In October and November, McGee was averaging over 19 minutes per game… During that time, he was averaging 9.1 ppg, almost 5 rpg, 1.25 blocks and was shooting over 55% from the field. Not bad numbers.
But more importantly, we could see him developing some post moves. He showed some confidence in that nice little jumper from the Free Throw line. In the first 8 games in November, he was given even more time (almost 23 minutes per game), and he started rebounding better… and his teammates started to feel more comfortable.
Then, something happened. I’m not sure if it was one of Tapscott’s “7-game” sections….. or if JaVale did something in practice or a game to tick off the Coach. But since that time, his minutes have been very inconsistent.; only playing 20 minutes or more twice; getting DNP’s, and 15 games of less than 10 mpg.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Sorry for replying - hit post by mistake
Now when he comes in the games, he seems more tentative. Fewer immediate, strong moves; and he seems to have completely stopped shooting that jumper . There seems to be a split second hesitation built into everything he does now.
There’s still flashes. Like the dunk in the Warrior’s game.. (then he was immediately pulled, and didn’t play the rest of the game)… But more and more, I’m hoping that we’re not creating another Kwame….
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
We're not "crying" about his lack of 20-25 minutes
I’d settle for 12-15 minutes per game on a consistent basis….
Let him get his feet on the floor EVERY game; against all kinds of opponents .
Consistency is the key. Right now, the kid can’t be sure if he needs to bring his sneakers or a butt pillow to the games.
It’s the inconsistency of this team that has most of us riled up. Inconsistent playing time – and the way in which it is allocated supposedly based on performance, but really based on “veteran” status.
The fact that some players make mistakes, or don’t perform on Defense – but continue to get playing time. While other players get benched for the same mistakes or poor performance on D. And not just benched for ONE game – but for several games (or even months….. see Pecherov, Oleksiy in your Wizards program; because you’ll never see him on the court)
As fans, we don’t necessarily see everything that the Coaching staff sees…. but we can see the games; and during the games, JaVale McGee has performed. He is the only healthy true Center left on the roster, yet he continually gets DNP-CD’s.
When he is in the game, the opponent’s parade to the lane for the lay-up drill stops. When he is in the game, opponent’s guards penetrate less.
When he is in the game, there’s the possibility of a Wizard’s center actually DUNKING the ball.
I can’t wait to hear Tapscott’s excuse for not playing McGee tonight against Shaq and Stoudemire. My guess is that he’ll say that “it was not a good match up” for JaVale…. Like, the alternatives ( Darius Songaila or Antawn Jamison ) ARE a good match up.
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Wow - 37 comments and climbing
This is obviously a highly volatile, interesting and motivating subject to elicit such a response from the BF community. And not just 1 sentence comments either.
Lots of well though out ideas here… That’s why I love this blog.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
all i really care about
who cares about all this crap…
I just wanna see McGee dunk on Shaq tonight. : )
i think that captures it
people are interested in mcgee because this team is such crap to watch – mcgee is the only guy right now capable of doing anything exciting.
we can discuss plans, team/coaching philosophy, player development, but we all still watch as fans. which is painful.
throw it down, skinny man!
"a crab dribble is when you travel" - caron butler
by little stevie colter on Jan 26, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Another good reason for playing McGee
The Wizards, after all, are entertainment. If they want our dollars, they need to put on a good show.
Right now, they’re not.
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You are correct, sir.
You are absolutely the only one here who has trust in the Wizards management.
I trust Grunfeld
I think he still has a plan.
Maybe I should say, I hope he has a plan; because he certainly keeps his cards close to the vest. But at least he has a positive track record I can look back on and say – “Look, back then he did some positive things”.
Unfortunately, I do NOT trust or believe in Tapscott; nor do I think he is doing the team any favors with his “veteran” only approach. In the long run, it’s making Ernie’s future decisions harder. It’s making the future Head Coach’s job harder. And it’s creating a division within the Team between young players and vets.
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What makes you think it's creating a division?
I think it’s avoiding one in the future.
by MR on Jan 26, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps I should have said:
it’s creating a division between the fans….
Those who want to see the young guys play more, and those who want to “trust” the Coach.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Who cares about division between fans?
I’m the only one defending management anyway.
by MR on Jan 26, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
i'd like to -
Ernie has certainly earned at least some benefit of the doubt.
But watching Darius at center is tough to take. The lack of even trying on defense at times, is tough to take.
The rotations are hard to make sense of, and the stories about the undisciplined warm ups (maybe not a big deal at all, but also maybe indicative of not caring) – all these things are really troubling and make it hard to have any faith
"a crab dribble is when you travel" - caron butler
by little stevie colter on Jan 26, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
I come down on...
The side of most of those on this thread who trust Ernie but not Tapscott. The coach is a dog, plain and simple. He needs to get off the bench and move back into the front office.
If you guys think
Taps is doing this without complete and explicit agreement from Ernie then I disagree with you. The guys are like best friends.
by MR on Jan 26, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
For me-
if I admit to myself that Ernie and Taps are in complete cahoots then it makes me feel even worse because I have to face the fact that we have an utterly dysfunctional organization from top to bottom and that’s just to difficult for me to bear right now. I prefer to blame just Tapscott. Am I completely delusional? Yep but I’ve always been a completely irrational basketball fan. With how bad this season has been and how depressed I’ve been at times I need to live in my fantasy world and just blame tapscott.
Anyways...
I’m not worried about McGee’s development being slowed by a lack of minutes in his rookie year. He has a long way to go and a lot of time to do it. I look forward to watching it. Many of us thought he should be D-leaugued before the season started anyway.
I think he’s fun to watch, so in that way I wish he had more PT.
remember Jason Campbell?
Honestly, I’m of mixed minds on whether to criticize Tapscott/Grunfeld for the playing time they (together) or giving McGee and other youngsters. On the one hand, I sympathize with their arguments and acknowlege they surely know a crap load more than I do about the game, and developing young players. On the other hand while I do see McGee getting pushed around and out of position from time to time, I think he’s shown some positive sides to his game, and I don’t see him overwhelmed by the NBA game. I’m not sure they’d risk all that much by giving him a little more time (20+ mpg perhaps), and making his PT more regular.
That said, I’m going to evaluate Tapscott/Grunfeld’s handling of this miserable season at the END of the season. If McGee and Young start getting more consistent minutes as the season progresses then I’ll take that into consideration.
But all this reminds me of Campbell’s second season when he started the season behind Brunell on the depth chart. It took Gibbs 9 games to give up on the veteran and start the future. While redskins fans were absolutely livid that Gibbs took “so long” to make the change, with the Washington media joining in the criticism of Gibbs, NO ONE is going to look back on that year and wonder what kind of quarterback Campbell would have been if Gibbs had made the change in say game 5 or 6 instead of game 9.
In McGee’s case I actually think, as gifted as the guy is, he’s LESS ready to take on big minutes as a center than Campbell was to take over the starting QB position. I haven’t been convinced by Tapscott’s explanations for his limited playing time, and so I think he should get more, and it should be more consistent. But overall, in the grand scheme of things, I really don’t think we’re going to look back on this season and decide the Wizards f’d up the development of McGee. And perhaps that’s Tapscott’s/Grunfeld’s logic. In a dreadful season, where McGee may very well be their future, be very patient and overprotective with the guy. Whatever his playing time has been, he’s still getting valuable experience as this season progresses.
Only thing is
Javale is getting DNP-CD, while Campbell’s question was who starts. I don’t think Javale should be starting I just want him getting consistent minutes besides 5 minutes a game then getting pulled for a little mistake. Eddie did that a lot with Blatche and it certainly didn’t help him.
except...
he got 20 mins last night. and he’s had other games recently where he’s gotten similar time. the DNPs are fairly infrequent. I agree that more regularly he should be in for 20 mins, or at least 15 mins (rather than 5), but even if things don’t change HE IS getting experience. In the long run I don’t think we’re going to look back and say this was a wasted year for him. When you count up the mins he’s played this season, as well as being part of an NBA team with regular feedback from NBA coaches, he should be a good bit better for it next year than this year.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jan 27, 2009 7:26 AM EST up reply actions
Watching the post game interviews after the Suns game
Comcast guys asking JaVale McGee what he learned from playing against Shaq.
McGee’s answer? – He’s gotta get in the weight room.
GREAT Answer…
And something he NEVER would have learned in practice, or sitting on the bench.
Tonight, he got schooled by a 17 year veteran; but his after game interview was poised and thoughtful – but he certainly didn’t seem intimidated, or like he couldn’t handle “too much, too early”… And during the game, he had some moments.
Shaq got 29 points, 8 rebounds and 3 blocks tonight against Blatche and McGee…
On the other hand, the Wizard’s Center combo (Blatche/McGee) had 18 points, 13 rebounds and 3 blocks. If that had been the Haywood/Thomas line against Shaq, we’d all be ecstatic.
And, Oh by the way, Shaq was asked about JaVale after the game. He went on for a minute or two and said he really likes McGee. He’s been watching him on TV. He’d love to have him backing him up so he could teach him some “tricks” of the game; Mentioned his background and mother; and said several times he likes his game.
So, there’s ANOTHER superstar player that has said good things about the Rookie.
Why do I have the sinking feeling that McGee will go back to picking up splinters in the Miami game?
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
It was very noticeable -
this game especially playing against Shaq that both McGee and Blatche need to hit the weight room. Shaq is about double their size.Of course body type does account for some of it. One suns fan in front of me was screaming – ‘feed the big dog, toothpick’s guarding him ’ during the game. Really could have been AB or JM but it was directed at JM. I’m glad that they both got to play against Shaq tonight, it’s a good learning experience for them both. Lot’s of people seem to like JM except our own organization.
Lot’s of people seem to like JM except our own organization
What a weird comment.
Do people around here really think Taps, Ernie, or the organization don’t like or don’t believe in McG? They are trying to develop him. You may not agree with their methods, but do you really think they don’t “like” him?
by MR on Jan 27, 2009 7:10 AM EST up reply actions
This team is 9-34
to worry about the veterans feelings about playing time at this point and sit some of our young players as a result or worry that too much playing time might stunt their growth is ludicrous.
To compare McGee and Campbell is to compare apples and oranges. They are different sports and different ways of developing. To me a player can develop a lot more with just practice in football than in basketball.
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Jan 27, 2009 9:54 AM EST reply actions
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