The Starting Five: Difference between on-field/court character and off-field/court character

As I read this, I immediately thought of the Bonzi Wells and Tony Allen discussions we had, where we were talking about "character issues." Definitely an interesting read (and I agree with it, for the record).

3 months ago Pradamaster Comment 12 comments 0 recs |

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Fortunately

For those of us who have difficulties determining the difference between on-field character and off-field character ; they seem to be inter-related anyway.

When a player has negative off-field character issues – more often than not, that same player will eventually have negative on-field character issues as well.

Good character cannot be switched on and off…. it’s either there, or it isn’t.

Bad character can be hidden – it can be masked – it can be glossed over – it can be ignored – - – but it doesn’t get “Better” just because you step from off-field to on-field.

by Rook6980 on Aug 21, 2008 5:48 PM EDT 0 recs

True but there are "bad guys" who bust their butt

and thusly you can put up with some of the attributes you don’t like. I may not like how T.O., Ray Lewis, Jeremy Shockey or whoever else you want to name, but those guys work their tails off and when the bell sounds are ready to give everything to win. The best example is Floyd Mayweather. Plenty of people don’t like the brashness, the cockiness, etc. But name anyone with that much talent who worked as hard (which is why he became the best pound for pound fighter in the world). People like that I respect, no matter what there antics are (as long as they aren’t criminal).

"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on Aug 21, 2008 8:18 PM EDT 0 recs

The problem is the word "character" is ambiguous.

It can refer to work ethic, or being a jerk, or going to strip clubs, or being lazy. You can call someone’s character into question for any of those vices, but they don’t have anything to do with one another. A player can be hardworking and be a jerk. And you can say he has good character for the former and bad character for the latter. It doesn’t mean that he is changing his character when he steps onto the court. Its misusing the term to assume players have either good character in all the dimensions of the word or not.

At a certain point, off the court character flaws can cause problems on the court. Michael Vick’s poor decisions cost him his career. And certain personality traits probably do translate onto the court, to a degree. If a player thinks he’s the most important gift to humanity ever, it will probably effect how he plays the game. This, however, is a much more nuanced discussion than the shallow analysis that is prevalent.

Basically, I totally agree with Starting Five.

by Aldo on Aug 21, 2008 10:27 PM EDT 0 recs

Wow - I sound like my Father

but, I still say you can’t turn on character traits…..

I believe that you can’t turn on courage. You can’t turn on honesty. Just as you can’t turn off your conscience.

You may be able to learn to be honest; to be courageous; to be a good person with good character. You may evolve into a person of good character…or devolve into a slimeball; but it can’t be turned on and off.

When someone says “He has good character”…. It makes me think of a stand up guy. Someone honest and straightforward. Someone who may make mistakes, but will step up and take responsibility for those mistakes. Not someone that works hard at their job (good character?), but goes home and beats the wife and dog (bad character?). Or someone who is a loving husband and father (good character?) , but lazy at work and disrespectful to his boss (bad character?).

Perhaps there are some fans out there that can root for the Michael Vicks of the world – that can ignore his off-field transgressions or partition off that part of their brain…. and cheer for him on the field… regardless of his off-field activities – so their team can WIN !!!
I submit that those “win at all cost” fans (?) also have a character flaw. One that allows them to look the other way. The same kind of flaw that so many people have that go 5 miles per hour over the speed limit…. or take home a ream of paper from work…. or lie to their boss about being sick so they can go play golf.

Nobody is perfect – but shouldn’t we at least TRY?

The rest of you can root for the wife beaters…. the steroid users…. if you want… I’d rather root for the good guy – even if he doesn’t win… Even if he doesn’t have the talent, or the physical gifts.

by Rook6980 on Aug 21, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

The question of who you want to root for

is entirely separate.

by Aldo on Aug 22, 2008 12:38 AM EDT up 0 recs

You've changed the argument

to being about striving for perfection in all areas of your life. Fine. Of course, I root for players based on who they are and how they conduct themselves off the court. I strongly disagree with your black and white characterization of athletes, but popularity is besides the point.

The issue is whether on the court character is the same as off the court character and how much they are related.

You’ve lumped all imperfections together. Going over the speed limit and wife beating and using steroids. These are all flaws, and obviously we should strive to surpass our flaws. But beating your wife is not the same as speeding. They are not caused by a single source called a “character flaw.” They’re not causally related or even correlated. Which is exactly the point about on the court behavior and off the court behavior.

by Aldo on Aug 22, 2008 12:54 AM EDT up 0 recs

I disagree with Starting Five

My point remains that the writer almost dismisses off-court behavior as immaterial and irrelevant; with quotes like “None of this means anything” and “When the off-field character stuff comes up I tune out”.

And then when talking about on-court behavior he says they “do matter and that all parents and fans of a particular sport should watch when they see their own son compete or their own team compete.”

So if baseball player Joe Blow keeps his body in condition, hustles on the field, performes at a high level, is a good locker room guy, and helps his team win – that matters… but the fact that he does steroids, beats his wife, and has 52 unpaid parking tickets doesn’t matter…. AND I should point him out to MY SON AS SOMEONE TO WATCH? AND EMULATE?

And on-field character matters because “on-field character wins championships.”

well, I’m sorry, but I don’t agree with those statements and the philosophies behind them.

by Rook6980 on Aug 22, 2008 8:01 AM EDT up 0 recs

Then you and I disagree

And on-field character matters because “on-field character wins championships.”

well, I’m sorry, but I don’t agree with those statements and the philosophies behind them.

I stopped rooting for Pete Rose – not because he had a gambling problem, but because he lied about it.
I stopped cheering for Rafael Palmeiro … not only because he did steroids, but because he lied to Congress about it.
I lost respect for Mark McGuire when he was not forthcoming in front of Congress and wouldn’t answer a direct question with a direct answer.
I won’t root for Michael Vick if he returns to the NFL. Even if he hustles. Even if he helps his team win. Even if he’s a good locker room guy.

by Rook6980 on Aug 22, 2008 8:13 AM EDT up 0 recs

Because in the end, it’s not about winning……….

by Rook6980 on Aug 21, 2008 11:26 PM EDT 0 recs

Root for and respect are two different things

If the off-field stuff interferes with the onfield stuff then you have a problem. I mean look at the invective tossed at Terrell Owens and Chad Johnson. Now these are two guys who aren’t getting into any scrapes off the field. They aren’t causing any trouble there, but of course because they have stirred stuff up on the field, they get all this **** thrown there way. The Starting Five’s point is correct in the sense that as long as the person shows up to practice or the game and does there job then who gives a flying flip what they do wants they leave the field.

"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on Aug 22, 2008 9:45 AM EDT 0 recs