111 million reasons to take a risk
It's been nearly three days since Gilbert Arenas re-signed, and I realize we haven't had much discussion about it, save from the initial FanShot. That's mostly my fault; I've had trouble getting to the computer during the Holiday weekend.
So, here goes.
It's clear that every side got what they wanted with this contract. Arenas may not have received a maximum deal, but he still made out far better than many feel he should have. He did settle for 16 million less than the max, but keep in mind that he negotiated this contract without an agent, who would have taken about a 10-percent commission on Gilbert's new salary. Ten percent of 127 million is 12.7 million, so Gilbert would have pocketed only 114.3 million dollars on a max contract. This way, he gets to keep the entire 111 million.
Better yet, because he took less money, Arenas' image suddenly improved dramatically. He can say he was a man of his word; that he's a "team player" because he allowed the front office a little more room under the luxury tax. He can say he's doing something that nearly every other star won't do, all while still pocketing enough money to keep him set for life even if he gets hurt again.
Ernie Grunfeld and Abe Pollin got what they wanted too, though. Ernie got a little more room under the luxury tax to take the sting off some of the mistakes he's made to get to this point. Depending on how the official numbers shake out, he might have enough money to bring Roger Mason back or, better yet, find the backup small forward we desperately need (I'm hoping for the latter). Abe wins because he has a team that's ready to contend right now, even if they haven't been able to really contend in the past. He won't have to suffer through a rebuilding project as his health diminishes.
The only thing left to determine is whether the Wizards get what they want, i.e. a deep playoff run with this group. The answer to that question is something nobody can definitively say right now. There's just not enough evidence of the Arenas/Butler/Jamison trio being healthy to determine its ceiling. All we really have is the end of 2006, when Butler finally broke into the starting lineup, and the first three months of 2007, before Jamison's injury, Butler's nagging problems, and Arenas and Butler's season-ending woes.
What do we have there? In 2006, the Wizards started slowly, but came on strong at the end of the season once Butler started to emerge. They lost to the Cavaliers in the first round, but that series could have gone either way. In 2007, the Wizards were near the top of the Eastern Conference before Antawn's injury, though there were plenty of caveats. The conference was really down (nobody won more than 53 games in 2007), the Wizards were playing terrible defense, Arenas was hitting shots at a ridiculous rate and the Wizards' point differential was close to even. Then again, that team also had to deal with feuding centers and a bench that really only had two capable reserves (AD and Etan/Haywood).
And...that's it. Many detractors will point to this year's series against Cleveland as further evidence of the Big 3's collective shortcomings. All three of them played, and the Wizards could only win when Arenas sat out. But Arenas was severely hurt during this series, and since the Wizards had completely changed their style without him, they weren't able to adjust to his presence in such a short amount of time. Those may sound like excuses, but I don't see why we should place too much emphasis on that one playoff series. Even if we did, we have to consider the fact that, without Arenas in a must-win Game 6 on their home court, the Wizards completely laid an egg.
The point here is that nobody can really say this team's ceiling has been met. Sure, they haven't won a single series together, but there was only one in which they were fully healthy. Framing it in a "status quo" sort of way is silly. We haven't seen a healthy Gilbert Arenas with this group of Wizards. The last time it happened was in December of 2006, and that group took off, even though the team's depth stunk.
So let's stick to what we do know. We know that, no matter how many times pundits and bloggers will claim that Arenas isn't worth this amount of money, the market said he was. Golden State was prepared to offer Arenas a maximum contract despite all the shortcomings anyone wants to trot out. Arenas could have received as much money as he possibly could have made there, albeit for one less year. If the Wizards offered less than the maximum, Arenas could have just signed Golden State's more lucrative package, and the Wizards would have had nothing to show for it. A sign-and-trade possibility probably wouldn't have worked either, not with the Warriors' ability to get Arenas without giving anything up. Gilbert's knee problems may not have killed his free agent market value, but they surely would have killed his sign-and-trade value, with teams far less willing to give up players for a twice-injured Arenas than giving up cap room.
We also know that if the Wizards let Arenas go, they would not have been able to replace him with a top-notch free agent this year. After re-signing Jamison, the Wizards' team salary was 54 million. With the salary cap set at 58 million, they could only have used the mid-level and low-level exceptions to improve the roster. The only thing that would have been gained is extra room under the luxury tax. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have Arenas than extra space under the tax.
The only other option, besides the remote possibility of a sign-and-trade, would have been to let both Arenas and Jamison go. The Wizards would have had around 14 million dollars under the salary cap. Presumably, their nucleus would have been Butler, a marquee free agent (e.g. Corey Maggette), Brendan Haywood, a bunch of veteran role players, and a bunch of young guys who aren't there yet. Worse yet, that would have likely been their roster for the next two years, since the Wizards have no contracts that expire after this season. None of us know how long it would have taken for Ernie to rebuild the roster, but we know that he wouldn't be doing it around a dynamic young stud. He'd be doing it around Butler, an outstanding player in his own right, but one who's 28, not 23 or 24. By the time that group is ready to contend again, Butler might be past his prime.
So with all those alternatives out there, I'm confident when I say that re-signing Arenas and Jamison at all costs is the best move out there. It's not a perfect move, not by any stretch. Arenas needs to be healthy, first and foremost. If he is, he needs to be a better teammate than he was this past season. He needs to become more committed defensively as well. Jamison needs to continue to beg off Father Time and show that his renewed commitment to playing inside wasn't just the result of a contract-year push. Additionally, because of our lack of cap flexibility, either Ernie's going to have to get even more creative, or Abe is going to have to shove off his notoriously frugal ways and allow Ernie to go over the luxury tax to bring Abe the title he so desperately wants.
It's a situation full of risks, and the price it costs makes those risks even greater. But considering the alternatives, I don't see any other way that makes more sense.
0 recs |
72 comments
Comments
They had to do it
I would have loved to have signed AJ and Gil for less, but given the circumstance it worked out great. They payed market value for two all star caliber players, and kept the core of a promising roster intact. Ernie and Abe did a great job making their players feel loved. The players on the team, specifically Butler, Arenas, and Jamison, have a strong bond with Mr: Pollin. It would be a great story to see them win a championship for their aging, ailing, owner. It might be the extra motivation the Wiz need…
by DT711 on Jul 6, 2008 8:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No other options made sense
AND – I’m not one of those who are convinced that we’ve seen the best this trio can give. Matter of fact, with the improved bench (Blatche, Young, Thomas, Songaila); I think the Wizards are poised to have their best year since Eddie Jordan arrived…. Will it be enough to crack through to the Championship round – I don’t think so… but they WILL be better this year.
With Etan Thomas & Antonio Daniels expiring contracts next year – Ernie Grunfeld will have some extremely attractive trades available to him next year – and perhaps, finally, Wizards fans will be celebrating in June 2010…
by Rook6980 on Jul 6, 2008 10:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rounding out the 2008/09 roster
The Washington Post site had a rumor that EG was talking to the Wolves about a deal.
Is it true? If so, does anyone know what player(s) he is targeting. My thought was Craig Smith, who really put a hurting on us last fall and looks like he can match up with Powe, Maxiell et al. Others suggested Ryan Gomes and Sebastian Telfair. One pipe smoker said Mike Miller…
by khrabb on Jul 7, 2008 3:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Link?
I’d like to read about it. Any credibility to this? I hope you’re not referring to the comments section. Most of the time the stuff commenters mention are more like wish-lists than rumors.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Michael Wilbon's Piece on Arenas's New Contract
Link. Nothing really profound, but I’m linking it because he makes a point that I’ve been thinking about for awhile. He references that the Celtics had more than just a Big 3.
As spicy as the Arenas story has been, the development of the Wizards’ big men is going to be more critical to the improvement of the team than anything. Just look at the Celtics: It’s not just that Kevin Garnett is big and great, though he’s both at 7 feet. It’s that Boston hits you with 6-10, 264-pound Kendrick Perkins, long and athletic Leon Powe, 6-9, 289-pound Glen “Big Baby” Davis and 6-11 P.J. Brown. That’s five bigs, who together work the body.The Wizards will need Andray Blatche, Oleksiy Pecherov, Dominic McGuire, JaVale McGee and Brendan Haywood, if not others, to have a similar ensemble effect. And Nick Young will have to become a reliable big-time scorer off the bench.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 8:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hadn't linked that colum yet
But I actually thought it was pretty good, save for the stupid jab at Arenas in the first paragraph. His point about the Celtics was pretty spot-on, and he’s right that the expectation level has to be raised.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And He's Also Right About the "No-More-Excuses Portion of the Program"
Everybody here keeps reiterating that we need to give the Big 3 one last chance to see what they can do when healthy. Well, that’s what Ernie’s done. But if it doesn’t work this season, I hope we’ll all be in agreement that something more drastic needs to be done. Injuries or no injuries, this has got to be the year that we at least get out of the first round.
If we get a home-court playoff series (that we win) and a hard-fought EC semi series in which we win at least 2 games, I’ll be satisfied with the improvement. Otherwise, I’ll probably be clamoring for a Big 3 breakup next offseason.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A breakup isn't exactly coming.
But if it doesn’t work this season, I hope we’ll all be in agreement that something more drastic needs to be done.
Amen – however, it might be just a little difficult to do anything next year if we don’t win. Jamison will be close to untradeable (even if he duplicates his numbers from last year--highly unlikely as the 3rd option—he will be a year older and a step slower defensively), Arenas will be unlikely to bring back anything close to equal value, and will we really want to dump Butler? This is definitely a minimum two year experiment as far as the roster is concerned. If we fail, the answer will lie elsewhere. I’m going to go ahead and predict that if we don’t get it done this year, regardless of injuries, Jordan will be shown the door and EG will get someone in here who can maximize our considerable talent.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jul 7, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm Down With That
I’m going to go ahead and predict that if we don’t get it done this year, regardless of injuries, Jordan will be shown the door and EG will get someone in here who can maximize our considerable talent.
And I would also consider such a move more drastic, so it foots the bill.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 8, 2008 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not sure the sign-and-trade was so remote
You had the Kings out there claiming (if reports are true) that they would do anything to get Arenas. I would’ve been interested to see what sort of package they could put together.
That said after prada’s excellent explanation of the cap and our situation vis a vis the lux tax, it didn’t matter if Arenas took $16 million less or $26 million less, we would still be in the same boat. So kudos to Arenas for doing that.
Cupp, I am not sure you could break this team up next year if this team goes one and out. Other than maybe Butler and the expiring deals (Thomas and Daniels, I think?) , I am not sure we could trade anyone.
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Jul 7, 2008 11:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Our Big 3 Are Really Good
If not great. I’m just not convinced that they complement each other particularly well. I actually think that Arenas/Hughes had much better chemistry than Arenas/Butler. However, that doesn’t mean that each is without value in a trade. If Arenas is fully healthy and returns to form, Jamison continues to post 20-10s, and Butler keeps doing what he’s doing (hopefully without a drop-off now that Arenas is back), then I see no reason why any of them wouldn’t be sought after by other teams looking for the right piece to fit and make them contenders.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the problem with Sacramento
Their most valuable player, obviously, is Kevin Martin. I doubt the Kings would have actually considered offering him up for Gilbert, but even if they did, he’s practically untradeable because he’s a Base Year Compensation player until next July.
BYC is pretty complicated, but here’s a quick explanation:
Base year compensation (BYC) prevents another salary cap loophole. Without BYC, a team over the salary cap that wants to trade a player, but can’t because of the Traded Player exception (which says teams can’t take back more than 125% of the salary they trade away), could just sign the player to a new contract that fits within the desired range, then do the trade. BYC says “if you re-sign a player and give him a big raise, then for a period of time his trade value will be lower than his actual salary.”
BYC defines the salary that’s used to compare players for compliance under the Traded Player exception (see question number 68 for more information about the Traded Player exception). Usually the salary used for comparison is the player’s actual salary. But under either of the following circumstances, a different salary is used when comparing salaries for trading purposes:
- The team is over the salary cap, used the Larry Bird or Early Bird exception to re-sign the player, and the player received a raise greater than 20% (unless it’s the minimum salary).
- The team is over the salary cap, it extended the player’s rookie scale contract, and the player received a raise greater than 20%.
If either of the above apply, then the player is considered a base year player. A player remains a base year player for six months, or until June 30, whichever comes later. When trading a base year player, the salary used for comparison is the player’s previous salary, or 50% of the first-year salary in his new contract, whichever is greater.
Here is an example of a BYC calculation: A player earned $2 million in 2004-05, after which he became a free agent. He then signs a new contract (re-signing with his previous team, which is over the salary cap) starting at $9 million. This player qualifies for BYC, so his trade value is the greater of his previous salary ($2 million) or 50% of his new salary ($4.5 million), or $4.5 million. So this player, who actually earns $9 million, is worth $4.5 million for trading purposes.
Martin’s BYC status doesn’t expire until next July. He signed a 5 year, 55 million contract extension last offseason, but it doesn’t actually start until this year, so his BYC status doesn’t expire until next July. (This is the same thing that happened to Caron Butler through the 2006/07 season, by the way). Martin’s contract would count for 11 million on the Wizards’ team salary, but it’s only worth 5.5 million in a trade. With the Wizards already way over the cap, that makes it nearly impossible to take Martin’s salary on.
Other than Martin, I don’t know who the Wizards would even want. Ron Artest is crazy, and his contract runs out next offseason. Brad Miller’s deal runs through 2010. They have a number of decent young guys, but no young studs other than Martin and maybe Spencer Hawes. I doubt they could have put together a decent package without Martin included.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops
The four paragraphs below the blockquote are actually part of the quote as well.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Blockquote Button Feature is Buggy
I always have to test it with “Preview” before I post. It usually happens when the start tag is included on the same line as the first paragraph.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for the explanation
It is perfect Prada. I see why it would be tough to a deal with the Kings and from my perspective Martin and Artest would have to be part of any Arenas deal for it to work and I see how difficult that would be. When the Maloofs made their intentions about Gilbert know it piqued my interest.
And yes Artest is nuts but on a team in contention and with a locker room and organization of quality people like ours, I think Artest would be an asset because of his defensive prowess.
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Jul 7, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
rebuilding = maggette?
hollinger spent about two seconds thinking about how wiz management could have possibly “remade” or “reshaped” the team around caron, and he quickly threw maggette’s name out there as something they could have done. okay, granted, adding maggette is a horrible idea and gets us nowhere, but is that the extent of the options available if EG and abe were committed to remaking the team around caron rather than re-signing gil and AJ at any cost?
personally, i’d like to see other plausible alternatives put out there for setting us up for 2009-2010 or 2010-2011 before condemning remaking the team around caron as an intractable option.
(not that i expect to see them as it’s futile at this point, we already had a proposal seesion, it’s pessimistic, and people are probably tired of me making this argument. but anyway, i think i have a decent point to make so i’m doing it anyway.)
the funny thing is, at the beginning of the year when wise wrote the article about how 2007-2008 was a make or break year for the big three, and even jamison was saying how if it didn’t happen last year it was probably time to make changes… at the time i thought that was a bit overly dramatic and harsh. now looking back it seems more justified to me. better that than the article saying that if it didn’t happen last year it would be time to lock it in for another four years. (or at least risk doing that.)
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 7, 2008 12:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not tired of you making this argument
You’re completely entitled to making it.
But if there really are plausible alternatives out there that I haven’t considered, you should mention them, not me. You keep talking about such plausible alternatives, but don’t take the time to get more specific. There’s nothing out there saying you can’t put out alternatives yourself.
I’ll even throw one out there for you. Conceivably, the Wizards could go after a restricted free agent like Josh Smith, Emeka Okafor or Monta Ellis to replace Arenas. They’re all restricted, but they’re all young, so we could see a bright future. The issue with that strategy is twofold. First, they’d likely take up all of the Wizards’ available cap space, so any other improvements in the next two years would have to come through the same avenues that we’re using anyway (MLE, trade, etc.). Second, there’s no guarantee you even get those guys, because their teams can just match the contract.
Say we did sign Ellis, though. Here’s our lineup:
PG: Ellis/Daniels/third PG
SG: Stevenson/Mason/Young
SF: Butler/McGuire
PF: Blatche/Songaila/Pecherov
C: Haywood/Thomas/McGee
You’d probably throw in a mid-level free agent somewhere to round things out, perhaps a guy who could play PF until Blatche is ready.
That’s your team for the next two years (maybe year and a half with all of our 2010 expiring deals). There’s a huge hole at power forward, and Ellis isn’t as good as Arenas yet. In 2010, you lose AD and Etan, but you probably re-sign Haywood for a decent amount (8 million or higher), so you won’t have a huge amount of cap space. In 2011, you’ll have to re-sign Butler and Young, so we’re right back at the same situation we are at today. By that point, Butler will be 31, the same age as Jamison before last season.
It might work, but I don’t see how we’re any closer to a championship contender long-term. We wouldn’t be able to clear enough space under the cap for another stud (maybe in 2010, depending on who else we sign in 2009), leaving us mostly with the mid-level as a way to improve the roster. We’re a little further away from the tax, but not enough under the cap, aka the dread zone.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We Could Have Always Signed-and-Traded Arenas
The Warriors wanted him badly, we could have gotten Ellis without losing Jamison, and assuming we got back a decent big (perhaps Biedrins to round out the trade salaries?), we would have been in a better position to compete for a championship. That said, it’s still spilled milk, so no use sulking about it. I’m putting on my happy face and hoping for the best out of the Big 3 this season.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would Golden State agree to a sign-and-trade
When they could just sign Arenas outright?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because We Could Offer One More Year
And, in fact, we did. Arenas would have rather had a 6 year, $127 million contract than a 5 year, $100 million one. If push came to shove, he would have taken the max from us and stayed home.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Golden State
Would have traded BOTH Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins just for the privilege of paying Arenas one extra year? That doesn’t make any sense at all.
What’s the upside to the Warriors doing that? They had enough cap space to sign Arenas outright. If they really wanted that sixth year, the only thing they’d give up in a sign and trade is a large trade exception, which the Wizards can only use on one player. That trade exception netted Seattle Kurt Thomas, a role player, and not anywhere near as good as Ellis or Biedrins on their own. Keep in mind that you can’t combine a trade exception with anything else.
If we were really sign-and-trading Arenas, we wouldn’t have offered him a max contract. If we did, he would have stayed here just like he ended up doing.
A sign-and-trade has to happen right away, otherwise it’s not allowed. Once a player signs, you can’t trade them until December 15.
If the purpose is to get players for Arenas, and not just cap space, a sign-and-trade would only work with a team already over the cap. Otherwise, there’s no incentive for that team to give any players up. Sacramento would have worked as a S&T partner, but other than Kevin Martin, who’d you want from that team? Arenas’ S&T market didn’t really exist beyond that.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh, sentence got lost
When I was talking about Kurt Thomas, I was referring to the Rashard Lewis situation with Orlando. Orlando got the sixth year on Lewis, and didn’t give up any players to do it.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arenas’ S&T market didn’t really exist beyond that.
how do you know that?
and, if not washington, arenas would have rather gone to a team closer to contention than golden state or memphis.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 7, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
There was nothing reported. That doesn’t necessarily mean the market wasn’t there (poor word choice on my part) or wouldn’t be there in the future, but there wasn’t really any time to wait, since the Golden State offer was on the table. And it’s just as speculative (if not more speculative) for you to suggest that Arenas wouldn’t have signed with Golden State if the Wizards didn’t offer him the max.
The point here is that the luxury of sitting and waiting on Arenas’ sign-and-trade market evaporated when a team out there not only possessed the ability to sign Arenas outright, but actually made an offer to do it. If Baron Davis doesn’t opt-out, the Wizards become the only team that can offer Arenas the max. At that point, Ernie can sit on his laurels, “lowball” Arenas, and all Arenas could do is demand a trade or sign for even less than Ernie’s lowball offer. But since Golden State had the cap space, that possibility went astray. There was just too much risk that Arenas would sign with Golden State, leaving us with nothing in return.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well For One
Gil did not have the same value in a sign and trade as he did on the open market. His value is much higher to the Wiz then elsewhere.
What do you think we could have picked up for Gil, coming off a season where he played 13 games and average 10ppg in the playoffs? How many teams would have signed to Gil to a large contract (100 million+), let alone give up valuable assets in the process?
Only Ernie knows for sure what options were out there, but I trust that if an attractive offer presented itself he would have strongly considered it.
Does anyone have any realistic S & T scenarios that would make sense for both parties?
by DT711 on Jul 7, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only Ernie knows for sure what options were out there, but I trust that if an attractive offer presented itself he would have strongly considered it.
not if he was getting direction from ownership to sign arenas no matter what.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 7, 2008 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe so
But I hope that Ernie has earned enough respect in this league to do his job. Sure, an offer would have had to blow him away but I am pretty sure that Abe would have allowed a S & T for a player like CP3 or Deron Williams, disregarding that the salary figures might not match up.
by DT711 on Jul 7, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Don't Understand
Golden State didn’t want to pay Arenas an extra year, but if it was the only way to get him, they probably would have and sent some players back for the privilege. Because of league rules, the Warriors, like every other team besides the Wizards, were unable to make Arenas the best offer. EG made Arenas the best offer, essentially guaranteeing that Arenas would sign here and not somewhere else. But if Arenas was to go to another team, he would rather go on a 6 year max contract than a 5 year max contract. A sign-and-trade with GS would have been the only way for the Warriors to secure Arenas, who showed how much they wanted him already.
We could have thrown in a player and/or some future draft picks to sweeten the deal and make the whole thing work. Biedrins and Ellis could also come back as sign-and-trades, unless I’m not understanding correctly the league rules on this. If I am, I apologize. The whole argument is moot now anyway.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
Golden State didn’t want to pay Arenas an extra year, but if it was the only way to get him, they probably would have and sent some players back for the privilege.
Again, history says no. Orlando didn’t get extra players back for Rashard Lewis. Atlanta did get extra players back for Joe Johnson, but that’s only because they weren’t far enough under the cap for Johnson to sign outright (if memory serves me), because Boris Diaw and two draft picks doesn’t match up salary-wise.
Even if Golden State would have traded a player back, what makes you think it would have been Biedrins or Ellis? Best-case scenario, it’s someone like Brandan Wright or a bloated contract like Al Harrington. They aren’t going to put together a marquee package just to get Arenas for six years instead of five.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, the Part About Five Years Was Moot
They aren’t going to put together a marquee package just to get Arenas for six years instead of five.
I’m curious why you keep comparing six and five year contracts, because GS would never have gotten Arenas for 5 years (unless Gil did something crazy). It was either 6 years or nothing. EG offered Arenas a max 6 year deal. He essentially guaranteed that Arenas would not go anywhere else, because nowhere else could match or beat that offer. GS wouldn’t be putting together a marquee package just so that they could pay Arenas an extra year. They would have put together a marquee package for Arenas, because otherwise they would not get him, not for 5 years, not at all.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because
Ernie offering Arenas the six-year max deal indicates he doesn’t want to sign-and-trade him. Otherwise, why offer it? Arenas could just accept it, which means he couldn’t be traded until December 15.
And if Ernie doesn’t offer the max, that five-year max deal becomes a lot more attractice. Who’s to say Arenas would never take it when the alternative is six years, but for a lot less money?
If Arenas wanted to go to Golden State, but wanted a six-year contract, here’s how it’d happen: the Wizards would do a sign-and-trade, but get very little back in return, since Golden State can absorb Arenas’ deal without giving anyone else up. At best, we’ll get marginal players back. At worst, we get a trade exception like Seattle did. Ellis and Biedrins wouldn’t come here either way. What’s the point of Golden State doing that when they can just absorb Arenas’ salary?
If the Wizards try to get Golden State to give back Ellis or Biedrins, the Warriors would say no, unless they’re complete idiots. Ernie would then have to deal with an even-more disgruntled Arenas, and his trade value AND his feeling about staying with the Wizards goes way downhill. Basically, the worst of all worlds.
Sure, Gilbert eventually took less money, but that was only AFTER Ernie stroked his ego and offered the max. Gilbert felt loved, so he gave back to a team that invested so much time in him. I doubt he would have done it if Ernie’s initial offer was for less than the max.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It Wouldn't Have Been About the Salary
If it came down to offering Arenas the max or letting him walk, I, like Ernie, would have offered Arenas the max. I wouldn’t have wanted to part with a star like Arenas without getting at least something back in return. But if I knew I wanted to deal Arenas, I could have worked out a sign-and-trade before hand, especially considering how much GS appeared to want him. GS wouldn’t be inclined to give much back, because like you said, they wouldn’t need to worry about salary cap implications. But as the Wizards GM (who I am assuming, for the purpose of this hypothetical, to be), I would make it clear to Mullins that I wouldn’t do this deal without Ellis and a serviceable big like Biedrins coming back in return.
GS could either take this deal or leave it. If they don’t send a good enough pair of players back, then I walk away. No matter what, though, I would not let Arenas walk and get nothing back for him.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup, he could have explored what was there for sure
mainly i think the point is that if EG had planned to replace gil and AJ, he could have come up with options.
the question, to me, is whether he did, or whether abe was dead set on getting the band back together at any cost.
as negative as i’m being, i hope it works out.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 7, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
That’s essentially what I’m saying in the third paragraph. Give Arenas a six-year max deal, but work out a S&T beforehand. If we do that, Golden State wouldn’t offer us a marquee player when their alternative is simply selling Arenas on the five-year deal.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Which Case
I say, “thank you very much Chris Mullins” and start looking at getting value for Arenas from another team. No way does GS sell Arenas on a 5 year deal when I’ve got a 6 year max deal waiting for him in the wings. If I have to, I sign Arenas to the max to keep from losing him, but not before I explore my sign-and-trade options with other teams. Ernie never considered this, because he was intent on keeping Arenas the whole time.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't be too sure of that
A five-year deal for the max scares me. If Arenas learns that he’s being shopped, he could easily get angry and sign the deal with Golden State. Knowing how he works, that possibility seems very likely.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anything is Possible With Arenas
So I can’t deny the possibility of your scenario. But a good GM would be honest with Gil and let him know the intentions. Ultimately, it would come down to Gil knowing that if he goes along for the ride, he’ll get a max 6 year deal no matter what. It makes a lot more sense for him financially, so I think he would have agreed to it.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the other angle
Is the diminishing of Arenas’ trade value. If Golden State doesn’t want to trade Ellis or Biedrins, what makes you think the Wizards will get comparable value for another team?
Plus, keep in mind that Arenas announced his intention to opt-out over a year ago. Ernie had a solid year to come up with alternative possibilities to signing Gilbert. A lot has changed since Arenas’ announcement, but just because Ernie didn’t make those alternatives public in the time between the draft and his re-signing doesn’t mean he never considered them.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Whole Point
Is that Ernie didn’t even appear to try. Of course, you could be right and he could have fielded offers but not received any good ones, but if those offers were serious I bet at least one of them would have leaked and we would have heard about them. I mean, NBA trade rumors come and go all the time, but I can’t even think of the last time I read any involving the Wizards.
My impression is that he wants to give another try with a healthy Big 3 in the playoffs. He wanted to resign Gil all along, perhaps because of prodding by Abe, perhaps just because. If it were me I would have explored my options, and like you said, I would have gotten on the ball when Gil announced his intentions to opt out over a year ago.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you could argue
that it’s ernie’s job to see what’s available for gil. you’re basically advocating the position that ernie shouldn’t look around because it might alienate gil. that position scares me more than losing gil.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 7, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure why that position is so scary
Forget ideology and think practically. Golden State offered Gilbert a very lucrative package to leave the Wizards. It’s as good as any package that could have been offered Gilbert. It doesn’t have a sixth year, but otherwise, it provides everything Gilbert wants. He gets long-term security, a ton of cash, and the ability to replace Baron Davis and play on a team whose nucleus won 48 games last season AND is very young. The only way the Wizards can trump that and allow themselves to benefit is to also offer Arenas the max. The only alternative, really, is to work out a deal with the Warriors, but the Warriors have no reason to offer anything worthwhile for just one extra year when they’ve offered an incredibly enticing package that will give them Arenas for nothing.
That’s just how it worked out. It’s unlucky that’s what happened, but it happened.
Now, if Golden State didn’t have that amount of cap room, then I’d be in agreement with you. Seeing as nobody then would have been able to put together an enticing package, both money-wise and competition-wise, it wouldn’t have made sense for Ernie to rush into re-signing Gilbert. He should have explored sign-and-trades and dared Arenas to take far worse packages if he didn’t like it.
But if we’re talking about the possibility that Arenas could get another deal for the same annual salary and leave us with nothing in return, we can’t mess around and explore the sign-and-trade market. If we did, Arenas would likely be gone for nothing.
It’s too bad that’s how it happened, but I don’t think there’s anything Ernie could have done about it, save for begging Baron Davis to return to the Warriors.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And no, that's not what I'm advocating
What I’m saying is that, practically speaking, this is the best we could have hoped for. Whether Ernie was going to do this no matter what is irrelevant to me, because the situation changed.
My position was that, if everything held to form in the free agent market, it would have been foolish to offer Arenas significantly more that he could have made outright elsewhere without exploring S&T possibilities. The problem is that everything didn’t hold to form, because Golden State cleared enough room to offer a max deal. I’m uncomfortable stalling with sign-and-trade possibilities when there’s another offer on the table like that. Arenas has all the leverage in that situation.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That All Assumes
A) Arenas would willingly sacrifice a 6th year worth around $27 million
B) No other team would be willing to give up anything of value to acquire Arenas
C) Ernie was actively trying to field offers for Arenas before Baron Davis opted out
I disagree with you on all three points. Ultimately, GS made things a little tense with their max offer, but Ernie had already been planning on resigning Arenas for a near max deal. That’s what the rumor mill was saying. There were no leaked rumors about other deals. Ernie from the beginning set out to resign Arenas, IMO, and that’s exactly what happened. Who knows what would have happened if he had actually tried to make a deal? We know GS wanted Gil. We know that Sacramento would have given anything they could. If other teams knew that Gil was on the table, who knows what they would have offered?
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Practically speaking
The only point of disagreement I can find is the first one. If there really was no threat of Arenas leaving for Golden State, then yes, the whole thing was rushed.
The other two are based on the hypothetical situation of whether this was the Wizards’ plan all along. It may have been, and there’s strong indication that, yes, it was their plan all along. To me, though, that plan is fine if there’s a real threat of Arenas leaving for nothing, a threat that didn’t exist when originally mapping out the free agent landscape. When that threat occurred, it made their position the right way to go.
It’s entirely possible that management randomly made the right decision, because they couldn’t have had the foresight to assume someone would offer Arenas max money. I’ll concede that point. If this Warrior offer wasn’t on the table, I’d agree with you 100%.
But since it was, I’m agreeing with the way Ernie approached things. The circumstances changed, therefore, so did my position.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe i'm missing something
could ernie not have discussed sign and trade deals before baron davis opted out? is that against the rules?
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 7, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dead horse, yes
but i’m still confused.
cuppett said this:
But if I knew I wanted to deal Arenas, I could have worked out a sign-and-trade before hand, especially considering how much GS appeared to want him.
that’s where i jumped in on this thread (on the sign and trade thread). and i wasn’t specifically talking about a deal with golden state, but potential sign and trades with the league in general, conditionally worked out with another team (pending on arenas’s to-be-determined level of interest) before the market even shaped up. we don’t know what might have been available.
and, to me, it is a concern if the ONLY plan was to re-sign arenas and jamison, especially when the price ended up as high as it did.
i’d say there is a possibility of another viable alternative out there that ernie may or may not have explored. it’s hard to argue that there was, but to me, it’s just as hard to argue that there absolutely wasn’t.
it didn’t blow up in our faces too badly, we got deals done, and most fans appear to be happy with them. and prada might be right that practically it was the only available option.
but my point is that 1) i don’t think we know that for certain based on the limited information we have and 2) if the only plan was to re-sign them at any cost, then i don’t think that went as well as we could have hoped for.
what could i have hoped for as a more ideal alternative? maybe ernie has a couple potential deals worked out before the market hits. once the asking price for jamison is out of the desired range, i’m prepared to go to market with the potential that he could walk for a lot of money elsewhere (gil shouldn’t worry about AJ as AJ’s not worried about gil and AJ’s gonna get his money one way or another). once the market shapes up, i go from there. i’m prepared to offer gil max money once golden state makes its move. i run any acceptable sign and trade offers by gilbert and see what he thinks. at some point, i talk to elton brand and see if he’s interested in playing in DC. maybe the market for AJ isn’t as strong as first thought and we land him for three years instead of four, and then get gil for what we ended up paying him. maybe AJ bolts for philly and we sign gil for max money. maybe AJ bolts and we get a sign-and-trade for gil for good value. maybe AJ and gil both bolt and we end up with elton brand. maybe AJ and gil both bolt and we end up with nothing (which i truly think is unlikely).
i guess my main point is that, personally, i think we overpaid jamison by a significant amount. we could have done that completely separate from gil. but i definitely don’t think we needed to do that to get gil. i think we had options available. and i am seriously concerned that two or three years down the line this could really end up hurting us. so, for different reasons than cuppett – who i think makes a solid argument of his own – i don’t 100% believe that we made the best long term move for the franchise this offseason. i guess kelly dwyer has the most similar opinion to mine on that front.
again, i’ll root for the team anyway and hope that i’m wrong.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 8, 2008 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I recd this
It’s a fair, legitimate, and reasonable way to think about the situation. It’s not how I did, but it’s reasonable.
Aligning with Dwyer is always a good move.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 8, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
Second sentence should read “Seattle didn’t get extra players back for Rashard Lewis.”
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm also not sure about Ellis
Since he’s also a free agent, BYC probably kicks in on his new contract, rendering him very difficult to trade.
I might be wrong about that though.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no Precedent
As much as I like Gil, I would have sign and traded Arenas for Biedrins and Ellis in a heartbeat, but teams just don’t make deals like that, especially for players coming off a 13 game season. Like Prada stated when has anything like that happened before?
by DT711 on Jul 7, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It Would Have Needed Some Sweetening
Something like Arenas, Nick Young, next year’s 1st round pick, and the future 1st rounder we acquired from Memphis for a signed-and-traded Ellis and a sign-and-traded Biedrins. That wouldn’t have been bad for GS. They would have gotten the superstar PG they coveted, and would have a young talent to add to the back-court along with pieces to add for the future.
We, of course, would have a really good big to go along with a young, promising guard in Ellis. Hopefully, we would also have more room under the luxury cap threshold after the deal to pay someone the full MLE to come over, possibly to take Young’s spot at SG.
But it didn’t happen, it’s not going to happen, and I’m over it. I’m looking forward to “The Takeover, Part Deux” (has that been used by Gil already?).
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose that's a possibility
Lots of sign-and-traded people involved, though. I can’t remember any trade that involved more than one sign-and-traded guy.
Plus, Biedrins becomes a BYC player once he signs his new deal. Because he’s a restricted free agent, he can only do that with the Warriors (this isn’t like Butler in 2006…Butler was a year away from restricted free agency).
The salary won’t match up for Golden State, thanks to Biedrins’ impending BYC status.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Use Crying Over Spilled Milk
Look, I’m with you completely, but the deals are done now. Jamison probably made his comments assuming that Gilbert was going to come back fully healthy. There is certainly a case to be made that the Big 3 will rarely, if ever, be fully healthy again. Each has had their own injury troubles the last few years (although AJ, to his credit, remained fully healthy for almost the entirety of last season). That said, Ernie wants to give it another shot. Our best hope, for those of us that wanted big changes, is for Ernie to lure a good role player to help fill a need, either a wing defender or a backup big. The other hope is that Abe finally lets Ernie go over the luxury tax threshold, but I’m not holding my breathe on that one. Other than that, our arguments for a big shake-up will have a lot more credence next off-season if we’re one-and-done yet again.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
complete agree
futile at this point, but i thought, for those of us who think ernie might have just made a mistake, that the option of remaking around caron at least deserves some consideration rather than getting dismissed out of hand.
as for alternative proposals… why not at least talk to brand to see if he’s interested in playing next to caron for max money? you could argue it’d be worth renouncing gil and tawn to do that once the market became apparent. heck, why not trade the pick and talk to both baron davis and elton brand and see if they’d want to play next to caron for contracts starting at 8 million apiece? or figure out a way to dump salary and up the initial offer price. you never know…
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 7, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, for one
Even if the Wizards dumped both Arenas and Jamison, they might not have enough to offer Brand the max. The Wizards’ total team salary without both Arenas and Jamison is 44 million. The cap is supposed to be around 59 million. 15 million isn’t enough for a max contract.
Asking Baron and Brand to play for 8 million apiece will get you nowhere. Dumping salary assumes you can actually dump the salary. Who’d want the Wizards’ dead-weight contracts this offseason?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they probably could have done it moneywise if they wanted to
they could have traded the 18th pick for cash and freed up another 1.5 million for brand. and i think where there is a will there’s a way. maybe someone actually wants daniels? maybe brand sees a frontcourt with him, caron, and haywood and is willing to take slightly less than the max.
as for the home run, since they aren’t getting any younger, if baron and brand think they would have contended in DC it’s conceivable they might have considered it. it’s worth a discussion at least, right?
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 7, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, perhaps
But there are a ton of maybes in that scenario.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doubtful
Baron wants to be in L.A. If they did try to take this course of action it would be a huge risk. If no star FA’s bite which would be almost a certainty for those $$$, then we lose Gil and AJ(my guess is they would bolt at first hint of this plan), and are back to the first scenario with Maggette which would be awful.
by DT711 on Jul 7, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
definitely a gamble
i guess it comes down to whether you consider that plan to be any more risky than signing gil and AJ to big contracts.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 7, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
And I think that’s what I’m trying to argue. There are risks everywhere, but after thinking about it a ton, rebuilding around Caron presents more risks than re-signing Gilbert and Jamison. You’re free to disagree, but I see your plan relying on a ton of maybes that we don’t have to worry about anymore.
Again, that’s just my take on it, but the alternative has definitely been considered.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Jul 7, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
unless someone else has another bright idea.
the free agent class does look exceptionally weak next year. no way we’re landing boozer.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 7, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Have to Weigh Risk Over Reward
Rebuilding around Caron brings with it new potential for greater rewards, if the risk pays off. Keeping the Big 3 gets us what if the risk pays off? The same healthy core that got dumped by Cleveland three seasons ago? Yeah, Caron was nursing a sore thumb. But most playoff teams have at least one key player nursing an injury come playoff time no matter what. LeBron beat us yet again this season while nursing a sore back.
Yeah, the Big 3 have improved since then. But so hasn’t Dwight Howard in Orlando. So hasn’t LeBron James in Cleveland. Do I need to mention how much Boston has improved? I see some upside to what Ernie has done if the Big 3 stay healthy. But not as much as I see if we rebuilt around Caron.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
we’re in the same boat.
you still gonna root for them to kick ass next year and prove us wrong?
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 7, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
I usually hate to be wrong, but I would sure enjoy wiping the egg from my face next May.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our role players
Have so much more potential then 3 years ago. Granted much of it is still potential but I’d take Blatche and Nick Young over Ruffin and Jarvis anyday.
I believe that if healthy this years team has the highest ceiling of any recent Wiz squad. If Blatche and Young take the next step, AD, Songalia, and Haywood keep playing like last year (second half of last year for Darius), the other young guys give us something, and the big three stay healthy, I truly believe this team can compete for a Chip or at least get to the Eastern finals.
Sure its a lot of if’s and maybe’s, but so is every other scenario. Let’s just hope we can pick up a little more depth throughout free agency.
by DT711 on Jul 7, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your Hope is My Hope
Because it is our only hope. We have to hope a bench upgrade and perhaps a key role player will make a big difference. It just seems like other teams are rebuilding their engines and we’re adding a spoiler to the back roof.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And For the Record
I would have kept AJ. So it was really about getting back a valuable piece for Arenas rather than a complete rebuilding project, at least if it were up to me.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's Move On - who do we need to get?
People keep saying backup big, but at the 4 and 5 we have BTH, Etan, Pech, Songaila, Jamison, McGee, and Blatche. Any deal that doesn’t clear out some space there has to be for a 3 or a 2/3. (I suspect there’s not enough minutes at point nor market for AD.)
So – how can we get Posey or Maggette? What about someone like Finley? Who else? (Darius Miles is attempting a comeback.)
by RamVA on Jul 7, 2008 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Difficult
Which is why the situation stinks. I would love to clear out some of the clutter at C/PF, but it probably won’t happen. Nobody will want either Etan or Pech, and for good reason. Songaila is pretty solid as a reserve, so I wouldn’t mind seeing him in the mix. I have to shake my head when I look at Blatche and McGee. Can’t we choose one and trade the other for a veteran backup big? Probably not, so we’re stuck with hope and promise over proven and reliable. That really stinks because I consider it our biggest need.
So yes, we’re going to probably aim for a 2/3 in free agency. I hope it’s not Roger Mason Jr., but I suppose we could do worse for the money we have available. Posey and Maggette both appear out of reach without going into the luxury tax, which I doubt Abe will allow. Have the NBA released the salary cap/luxury tax threshold numbers yet? We won’t know for sure what the possibilities are until we see that.
BTW, RamVA, are you a VCU student/grad?
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 8, 2008 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since I only just joined this blog
I was wonder where everyone stood on trading Jamison during the season. Don’t want to start another big debate, I am just curious to compare the philosophies of building a team that everyone has here.
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Jul 7, 2008 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
honestly
i don’t think that idea ever came up.
in hindsight, it might have been a good move, depending on what was available. i think we were all hitched to the idea of getting gilbert back healthy for the playoffs.
would have been cold as ice though.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 7, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why I Value Jamison
He’s the only back-to-the-basket player we have next to Haywood, but unlike Haywood he averages around 40 minutes a night. He’s a 20-10 guy, which is rare to find and even harder to replace. Plus, he’s a leader. I believe (only my opinion) that his defense got better this season. I would have kept him over Arenas despite his age. And at an average of just over $12 million per season, somewhat of a bargain, if you ask me.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Jul 7, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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