Surprise, surprise: Professor Hollinger doesn't like what we're doing
Sir Hollinger, you know I like you as an analyst, but I need to take issue to this:
In three seasons with the trio of Arenas, Antawn Jamison and Caron Butler, the Wizards have won 43, 41 and 42 games and haven't made it past the first round of the playoffs. The three players are 26, 28 and 32, respectively, so it seems likely that we've seen about the best we're going to get from them. They're an average team, and without an infusion of vastly better players around them, they'll keep being an average team.
Yet instead of blowing that trio up, the Wizards took a Bob-Beamonesque leap of faith this week. First they extended Jamison for four years and $50 million, and then they offered Arenas a monstrous six-year, $127 million package. Given that Arenas is coming off a major knee injury that kept him sidelined nearly all of last season and is heavily dependant on his quickness to be an elite scorer, his offer in particular appears to be a reach...
The Wizards' alternate reality was letting both go in free agency and using what would have been a big chunk of cap space to try to remake the team around Butler -- their best player this past season and the least expensive of the three going forward -- and whomever else they could have signed. At worst, it seems they would have come away with Maggette, and their cap situation would have been far better over the next five seasons -- in fact, they might have been able to get into the LeBron bidding in 2010; James recently named Washington, D.C., as one of his favorite cities...
It sure seems to me the fear of losing out on big-name stars caused Washington to miss out on a fantastic opportunity to remake its roster.
First of all, here's how that first sentence should read (bold are the additions):
In three seasons with the trio of Arenas, Antawn Jamison and Caron Butler all healthy at the same time, the Wizards have won 42 games in 2006, despite Butler starting the season on the bench, and were near the top of the Eastern Conference and on top of their division in 2007. They haven't made it past the first round of the playoffs in two series at full strength, losing a tight series in 2006 with Butler nursing a broken finger and losing in 2008 with Arenas slow after coming back from knee surgery.
I'm pushing it a little with the external factors at play, but it bothers me to no end when people talk about how this team has never gotten out of the first round without even mentioning the injuries. I know, I know, everyone suffers injuries, but how many teams lose their two best player two weeks before the playoffs? How many teams lose their star for three-quarters of the season and still manage to be back in the playoffs? I'm just saying...
And the point about the Big 3's ages...I mean, didn't he say the same thing last year? Jamison's a little old at 32, but Arenas is still quite young and Butler is right in the middle of his prime. It's not like we're dealing with a bunch of 35-year olds.
Then, there's this point:
Given that Arenas is coming off a major knee injury that kept him sidelined nearly all of last season and is heavily dependant on his quickness to be an elite scorer, his offer in particular appears to be a reach...
Except Golden State offered a max contract, and Sacramento offered to trade their entire team for Gilbert. Overpaying? Maybe, but this isn't like Rashard Lewis last year, where Orlando was literally the only team offering anywhere near a max contract. The Wizards aren't bidding against themselves, because Arenas could collect the same annual salary with Golden State.
There's also the angle that he might take less to help the team, which isn't mentioned. I don't think it changes the fact that the Wizards offered the max, but Arenas might not take it, giving us a little bit more room to improve the team.
To his credit, Hollinger does discuss the alternative plan of letting both these guys go and building around Butler. If we did that, we'd be about 14 million under the cap this year and, if we didn't sign anyone else, a similar amount under the cap next offseason. If we sign Maggette and re-sign Mason, that'd give us a lineup of Daniels-Butler-Maggette-Blatche-Haywood, with Songaila, Mason and Stevenson as the key reserves. Then, we'd have about 17 million in expiring contracts in 2010 (Etan, Haywood and Daniels), and we probably would have enough cap room to make a run at an A-list free agent. But how many of those guys would switch teams anyway? Does it really make sense to get rid of two of our Big Three for the five percent chance that we could land LeBron or Amare Stoudamire? I'd rather not worry about that.
The only hope then is that we draft a stud, but our "rebuilt" team is not particularly young and it's probably just good enough to win 30 games in the East. We'd have to get very lucky to either win the lottery or get a steal in the draft.
I guess my point is that it makes little sense to completely rebuild when all our role players have deals for the next two years or longer. That's a long time to hold onto dead-weight contracts. If those contracts weren't there, then rebuilding might be a better option, but at this point, we're going to have to live with those guys for two years or more had we decided to rebuild.
So yes, it's an option, but not a particularly great one. It'd take two years to completely rebuild our team, and even then, we may never get this close to being a contender.
Let me be entirely clear here. Signing Arenas and Jamison to these long-term deals is a risk. In fact, it's a major risk. If Arenas isn't healthy, or if Jamison really slows down, Hollinger is right that both of those contracts are major albatrosses. He's also right that our young guys may never improve, and we will lose a ton of cap flexibility.
But the alternatives are just as risky in this particular situation. Rebuilding is a dicey scenario, especially when a huge part of the plan is to get in on the 2010 free agent sweepstakes. Re-signing Jamison, but not Arenas means we still don't have much cap room and we're stuck with a veteran team with the upside of 40-45 wins. Re-signing Arenas, but not Jamison gives us more room under the tax, but it also means we have to rely on Blatche to take a major step forward for us to keep up.
Re-signing both means we have more hope of competing than any other scenario. Sure, a lot of things have to break right, but I don't see why this team can't win 55 or more games if everything Hollinger lists breaks right. For a city that has been a laughingstock for so long, we deserve the chance.
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Thank You Hollinger....
He also said that we’d seen the best of Caron Butler before last season.
Way to go…bean counter.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It Dot Net
by Truth About It on
Jul 3, 2008 8:13 PM EDT
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Yeah
Hollinger has a “thing” against the Wizards…. He is continually “surprised” by their performances – but refuses to give any credit..
Last year, he predicted the Wizards would finish 33-49, 5th in Southeast, 13th in Eastern Conference – and miss the playoffs.
The guy is a boob…
by Rook6980 on
Jul 3, 2008 8:23 PM EDT
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Now, now
Hollinger is a very smart man and gets it right a lot. I just don’t agree with his takes on the Wizards, that’s all.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on
Jul 3, 2008 8:33 PM EDT
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Well...
he’s a great stathead, but also a great example of what happens when a stathead gets outside of his element. The 33 wins thing from last year was a great example, and that was WITHOUT predicting our injury scenario. The guy’s crystal ball has a lousy track record. His analysis of the present and recent past, much better.
And of course the real issue here is that he’s talking about how to build a championship squad. Well those are pretty rare and everyone else is trying to do the same thing. Emptying the team of most of its big talent and stinking for two years in the hopes that a megastar walks through the door ends up looking pretty weak if we don’t land the star and/or a #1 lottery pick. Meanwhile, sure there’s the chance that Gil becomes Grant Hill and never recovers from the injury, but there’s also the chance that his star keeps rising, one of our young bigs turns into something special, and/or we pull off a spectacular trade (note that both the championship squads from last year pulled off absolute fantasy trades… you can’t plan for those).
Bottom line for me remains that Hollinger is a stathead who never has to justify his predictions going south. He’s working from opinion here, not data. And his opinion has always been overly negative to the Wizards.
by sierradave on
Jul 3, 2008 10:06 PM EDT
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Well
He did pick the Spurs in 07 when everyone was picking Dallas or Phoenix. Gotta give him credit for that.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on
Jul 3, 2008 10:12 PM EDT
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counterpoints
And of course the real issue here is that he’s talking about how to build a championship squad. Well those are pretty rare and everyone else is trying to do the same thing.
shouldn’t we try too?
Emptying the team of most of its big talent and stinking for two years in the hopes that a megastar walks through the door ends up looking pretty weak if we don’t land the star and/or a #1 lottery pick.
is it necessarily the case that we’d stink for two years? would we absolutely need to land a lebron or a #1 pick to get back to where we are now?
Meanwhile, sure there’s the chance that Gil becomes Grant Hill and never recovers from the injury, but there’s also the chance that his star keeps rising, one of our young bigs turns into something special, and/or we pull off a spectacular trade (note that both the championship squads from last year pulled off absolute fantasy trades… you can’t plan for those).
could we not have had those things (trades/development) happen if we had rebuilt around caron? if any of our young guys develop now, we won’t be able to afford to re-sign them… (better hope its blatche so that’s not an issue.)
we’re basically locked into the same team we’ve had the last three years that has never been healthy and has never gotten out of the first round, for the next four years. hollinger would argue that when we were leading the eastern conference, gil was absolutely on fire, we were playing a weak schedule, and our win differential points-wise wasn’t good at all.
of course we had no bench then, but i’m sure a lot of experts will still pick us third in our own division next year after these signings.
by DarrellWalkerFan on
Jul 3, 2008 11:08 PM EDT
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That's just it
Yes, we should try to build a championship squad, but the issue I take with Hollinger is that it isn’t like there’s any clear formula for doing so. The only thing we know for sure about winning championships is that it takes a lot of talent and a lot of chemistry. Hollinger is suggesting that the Wizards should blow up the current squad because it isn’t talented enough (read: doesn’t play good enough defense, since that is what he prioritizes). I think it’s a pretty foolish risk to swap out more talented players (Arenas) for less talented (Maggette) in the hopes that down the line something good might happen. That seems like a foolish gamble.
“Rebuilding around Caron” means taking on less salary now so that we can hope to make a push in the future. How is that looking for teams like Charlotte, Memphis, the Clippers, and Philly? They have money available, but can’t attract free agents because no one wants to play there. The Bullets aren’t a storied franchise (read: Celtics, Bulls, Lakers, Detroit, sort of the Knicks). If we have a lottery squad, one all-star, and money, we’re not an attractive destination.
My point is that steal-of-the-century trades, lucky lottery picks, and other low-probability developments are unlikely events that can’t be predicted. But what a team CAN do is to bring in talented, entertaining players. The Wizards aren’t cellar-dwellers anymore. They aren’t championship-calibur, they still need another piece, but if we let Arenas and Jamison walk, then we need multiple pieces and we go back to stinking. And there aren’t a lot of good examples out there of crappy teams that turned into championship squads by saying no to the best players available.
Take the best talent available. Hope for some good luck. A team will need both to move from playoffs-every-year to championship-contender. Are Gil and Antawn worse at defense than pre-’08 Ray Allen and Paul Pierce? Better to be one stroke of luck away from contending than two or three.
by sierradave on
Jul 4, 2008 2:33 PM EDT
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Dave's right
“Better to be one stroke of luck away from contending than two or three.”
Hit it on the head right there.
"Now, obviously individual production does not unilaterally equal better team production, but there's a high level of causation."
by Vanilla Gorilla on
Jul 4, 2008 10:59 PM EDT
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that assumes
that we are one piece away from contending after these signings. i disagree that’s the case. (what are you going to add to address gilbert and antawn’s defensive deficiencies? i disagree that paul pierce was a bad defender before last season.)
and now we’re locked in. (i wasn’t advocating letting these guys walk before the signings, but i thought the asking prices would be lower. we just threw out championship money to non-championship pieces.)
i also get tired of the “no one wants to come to washington” argument. KG didn’t want to go to boston before they had pierce and allen in place. he didn’t go there because it was boston.
personally, i think the best argument that can be made right now for these signings is that we can be happy that we’ll be viable and relevant for the next few years. we’ll be a playoff team. we might make the second round of the playoffs if we’re lucky. and then that’ll be it. if you’re satisfied with that, then you should be happy with the signings. if you’re not, then you should have wished EG went danny ainge and blew the team up around caron like ainge did around pierce. it might be a step backwards depending on what EG would have been able to do as a plan B, but it might not have. we still could have been picked third in our division.
by DarrellWalkerFan on
Jul 5, 2008 10:44 AM EDT
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condensed
“rebuilding around caron” might be a step backwards depending on what EG would have been able to do as a plan B, but it might not have. we still could have been picked third in our division next year.
by DarrellWalkerFan on
Jul 5, 2008 11:02 AM EDT
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The difference
Is that Caron is 28, while Pierce was 25 after the 2003 season, when the Celtics started to rebuild.
Three years is a ton in this league.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on
Jul 5, 2008 11:36 AM EDT
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i think the difference in my thinking
from everyone else is that i don’t think it would have taken the wiz three years of sucking to reload.
by DarrellWalkerFan on
Jul 6, 2008 9:47 AM EDT
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especially
with EG making the moves.
i think the re-signings were largely an abe pollin production.
by DarrellWalkerFan on
Jul 6, 2008 11:30 AM EDT
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also, to your other point: memphis, charlotte, philly
none of those teams have a caron butler on the squad.
and the clippers just landed baron davis, and i like their chances next year, or at least their ability to make a couple moves off the davis/brand combo. (yes, i’m assuming brand re-signs.)
by DarrellWalkerFan on
Jul 5, 2008 10:56 AM EDT
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Well that's silly
Memphis has Rudy Gay, who put up comporable scoring numbers with a higher effective field goal percentage last year. He’s also six years younger than Caron.
Charlotte has Gerald Wallace, long one of the most underrated players in the league, and Emeka Okafor, who is one of the better bigs in the league.
Philly has Andre Iguodala, who, like Gay, produces comporably to Butler, but is four years younger. They also have Andre Miller, who had a career year in 08, and Samuel Dalembert, who also had a career year.
They don’t have Butler, but they have guys who are just as good and still younger. We’re all Tuff Juice fans, but we also have to be honest with outselves.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on
Jul 5, 2008 11:35 AM EDT
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seriously?
i don’t think there’s a comparison between butler and any of wallace, igoudala, and gay. butler is much better. he made the all-star team over wallace and igoudala (and will continue to), and gay is considered one of the worst defenders in the league, and you have to worry about the big numbers on a horrible team factor.
by DarrellWalkerFan on
Jul 6, 2008 9:43 AM EDT
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All-star honors are as much reputation as anything
And I think the point here is not their abilities, but their age. It’s easier to dump two of your three best players when the third is still in his early 20s, with plenty of room to grow into a superstar. Butler is 28, already in his prime. He might be a little better than those guys right now, but at 28, Butler has less room to grow. If you dump Antawn and Gilbert, you risk wasting Butler’s best years on a team that doesn’t provide him much help.
If Butler was putting up this type of production at 24, it’d be different, because he would have enough time to sit through a rebuilding effort (no matter how long that effort takes). At 28, I don’t see how Butler has the time.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on
Jul 6, 2008 6:18 PM EDT
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well
i think it’s more than just reputation, but i don’t think his reputation would hurt. people very well could be itching to play next to caron.
i am more upset about the price of the jamison re-signing than the arenas one. say we had let jamison go to the sixers for what we ended up paying. are the sixers going anywhere with igoudala and jamison? i don’t think so. and that’s the point.
i love AJ, but to see him saying he had to compromise on the deal, and at the press conference to see him say he’s paid to hoist up trophies… i mean the attitude definitely helps to make him as good as he is, but apparently it is also helping him to seriously overvalue the role he might play on a championship team.
by DarrellWalkerFan on
Jul 7, 2008 11:47 AM EDT
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I sort of agree
Jamison’s price is definitely a bit too high, but there was too much risk that, if Jamison left, Arenas would as well. I’m not sure whether keeping only Arenas was really a viable option, not with Arenas practically guaranteeing his departure if Jamison wasn’t re-signed.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on
Jul 7, 2008 1:12 PM EDT
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Injuries
No one ever takes Washington’s injuries into account when they’re evaluating the team.
I really believe that the key to NBA success is that a Very Good team has to stay relatively healthy for the entire year to have a chance to win the Championship.
See Boston last year… (top 7 guys averaged 76 games played) or San Antonio in 2006-07 (top 7 guys averaged 75 games played), or even Miami in 2005-06 (the top 7 guys averaged 74 games played)....
Compare that to the Wizards, where our top 7 guys averaged 56 games played (including Arenas and Thomas)... Even if you take out Thomas and substitute Mason, the top 7 guys only averaged 67 games played.
Throw in a major injury or two to any of those teams, and they don’t win…. (See Miami in 2006-2007)...
You can go back in time for the last 20 years and see the correlation…. Championship caliber teams are teams that remained relatively healthy…
I truly believe that if the Wizards can stay healthy, they’re a 55 win team and can contend for the Conference Title… and perhaps, with a few breaks, the Championship.
by Rook6980 on
Jul 3, 2008 8:46 PM EDT
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surprise
for the first time, i agree with hollinger.
although i don’t know what his thing is for maggette (who’s never won anything – that’s about the last guy we should have tried to sign), or why he commends golden state for throwing the max at gilbert when, in the same article, he condemns washington for doing it.
i also don’t think they would have needed to get in the lebron sweepstakes to reload around caron. the world is wide open if you leave yourself options.
in terms of dc being a national joke. i think most dc fans, likely including myself, would be happy with a team that makes the second round every year, but nationally, i think we’ll still get the stuart scott/chad ford/john hollinger/charles barkley treatment even if we do that.
better hope gil’s knee is good.
by DarrellWalkerFan on
Jul 3, 2008 9:01 PM EDT
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Right On, Prada
This analysis is simply outstanding, and spot-on. The market was created, and the Wiz had to play in that market. Getting Maggette and losing Gil? Ugh—perish that thought. Arenas is a singular talent, someone you gameplan for, someone that is the focus of the defense, someone who is the definition of “big shot.” He had to come back. He is back.
November can’t come soon enough.
by YellaFella on
Jul 3, 2008 9:54 PM EDT
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Hollinger...
...is an idiot.
Same guy said we’d only win 33 games. He can’t make all this talk without repercussions.
by se7en on
Jul 3, 2008 10:37 PM EDT
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His Scenario Doesn't Make Sense
Why should the Wizards have let Gil walk when they could have easily performed a sign-and-trade and got a valuable piece back in return? Either Golden State or Sacramento would have made us an offer. Why should we pursue an expensive free agent that plays the exact same position as our only remaining star player? Why would we ever want LeBron when it’s so much more fun to hate on him? I’d rather have a star player that tipped waiters and waitresses well. :)
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on
Jul 3, 2008 11:55 PM EDT
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Wiz big 3 trio arguably better than celtics big 3
...now that I have your attention, for the Wiz trio to be better Butler needs to step up and be the man this year and the only way that’ll happen is if Gil and J let him.
by ucantstopbernard on
Jul 4, 2008 10:40 AM EDT
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I think Hollinger is taking the injuries into account
And his thinking is that this team will never be healthy long enough to see their potential and that’s why starting over isn’t a bad idea. Now I am partly in his camp on this. First, Jamison’s expiring contract should’ve been used to net an impact player (one preferably that could improve us greatly on the defensive end) and I wouldn’t have had a problem with a Gilbert sign and trade to another team.
I want to believe that this group can stay healthy and make a deep run in playoffs, but why should we believe that anything will be different. This team hasn’t stayed healthy since the second half of 2006 and they still can’t play defense worth a damn. And that is my problem with sticking with the same group.
by George Templeton on
Jul 6, 2008 12:53 AM EDT
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