Houston Chronicle: Rockets trade for Ron Artest
They got him for practically nothing (Bobby Jackson's expiring contract, Donte Greene and a first-round pick). I guess that's not nothing, but it's a lot less than I thought.
Still, how exactly does Artest help Houston again?
4 months ago
Pradamaster
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Prada,
you don’t like this deal for Houston??
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on Jul 29, 2008 11:22 PM EDT 0 recs
Not particularly
I never understood their interest in Artest. Artest’s strengths are that he is pretty good with the ball in his hands and is still an awesome defender. Offensively, how does he get his touches and space with McGrady/Yao already there? Defensively, Houston already rocks, so why trade for Artest.
This also relegates the underrated Shane Battier to the bench. Now there was a solid defender who used almost no offensive possessions.
They gave up practically nothing, but I still don’t get why they needed to do this.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Pradamaster on
Jul 29, 2008 11:30 PM EDT
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I think Shane Battier is one of the most underrated/important role players in the league, but it’s a good thing that it sends him to the bench. Battier is obviously good for a trey ball, but Ron is definitely an upgrade at starting 3, without the sacrifice on defense. Ron’s a good scorer (though I doubt he’s that efficient), but even so, he will take much much much pressure off Tmac to score on the perimeter with his ability to create with the ball.
The Rockets could actually play Ron and Battier together, with Ron being more of a lock down defender and Battier the team defender. What a great defensive two-some that is.
I heard Steven A. say that this move made Tmac happier than he’s ever been in the league… I know Tmac is one tough dude, but it’s obvious his playoff psyche is pretty much on E at this point. Maybe this gives Tmac and the Rockets the boost it needs to get out of the first round. Pair Ron with Rick Adelman, who he has vouched for pretty hard recently, and it helps both Ron and Tmac’s outlook into next season.
Dear Diary, JACKPOT!!!!!!!!!!
by Evander holyfield on
Jul 30, 2008 12:00 AM EDT
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I'm not so sure Battier has to be on the bench when Artest is on the court
Artest is strong enough to guard a number of PFs in this league. You could even play T-Mac at the point and then play Battier at the 2 for short stretches. Artest has way too much talent for this to be a bad trade. It’s a one year rental of a top-ten defensive player who can do EVERYTHING on the court. I don’t care if this trade means the roster doesnt resemble the platonic ideal, Artest is tough as nails and knows how to play the game (i.e. high basketball IQ). I love the (small) gamble and I think the Rockets will be a really tough matchup for everyone next year.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on
Jul 30, 2008 10:15 AM EDT
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Artest at the 4 should be filed away
It’s kind of like playing Caron Butler at the 2. Sure, it sounds good in theory, but it’s probably not a good idea.
Last year, Artest was dynamite when he played the small forward position, but his effect on the team was much less pronounced when he played the 4. He played 23 percent of the team’s minutes at the 4 with the Kings last year. During that time, Sacramento’s offense was 0.7 points worse than with Artest at the three, and more importantly, their defense was five full points lower with Artest at the 4. It’s probably because of the rebounding problem. Looking at Sacramento’s five-man units, only one unit that had Artest at the 4 had a positive rebound percentage (Udrih, Martin, Salmons, Artest, Miller). I should note that doesn’t include the now-defunct Bibby/Martin/Salmons/Artest/Miller unit or a couple units who barely played.
More importantly, Artest wouldn’t be taking Mikki Moore’s minutes; he’d be taking Luis Scola’s an Carl Landry’s. Both Scola and Landry are much better rebounders, more efficient scorers and far better defenders than Moore. Moreover, Houston’s defense is predicated on forcing misses and preventing second shots, so Scola and Landry’s rebounding is very important for them. Putting Artest at the four would mess up their length contesting shots and hurt them on the glass.
No, I think Battier is going to have to sit a little more, which isn’t as bad as I originally thought because his game does translate well off the bench and Houston didn’t have a backup 3 before the Artest trade.
I guess I think the trade is a necessary gamble, but it won’t help out much. They gave up practically nothing. Jackson is redundant after the Brent Barry signing, Donte Greene wasn’t playing much anyway and the pick is going to be a late first-rounder anyway. There’s also the fact that, if it doesn’t work, they can just let Artest walk anyway. I just don’t see how Artest’s game mixes well with the Rockets. They were already a tough defense-first team that had issues sharing the ball. How does Artest help that?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Pradamaster on
Jul 30, 2008 11:17 AM EDT
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Could the Wizards deal for Battier?
Houston could use an experienced back-up point guard to replace Jackson… AD could be that man.
Houston may need an experienced banger behind Scola… someone who can score to replace Juwan and, even more to the point, Carl Landry if he jumps to Europe as has been rumored. Songalia fits that description. He can shoot, is a good passer, blocks out well, and his slowness of foot will not hurt him in the Houston half-court offense.
Don’t know if that would be a good enough packages to get Battier (and ESPN says Houston may play Artest at the 4!) but should at least be worth exploring… heck I would give up Blatche and AD for Battier in an eyelash.
by khrabb on Jul 30, 2008 7:00 AM EDT 0 recs
Battier is on the of the guys they are building around. Houston will insert Artest next to Yao and Battier and let the matchups determine who plays the 4 and who plays the 3.
They’ll still have Chuck Hayes and Joey Dorsey behind Scola. Landry isn’t healthy and thats part of the reason he hasn’t signed anywhere. Teams want to check his knee again. That makes him very likely to return to Houston. I don’t put too much into the rumors that he has a Euro deal. Everybody had one in the days after Childress walked. Those bluffs have been called (Delonte West) or the team folded (Lakers/Vujacic).
The Rockets also have former first rounder Aaron Brooks, Luther Head, Brent Barry and Steve Francis in the backcourt.
If there is a guy to target its Chuck Hayes. He’s the guy with years on his deal and no room in the rotation any longer. Dorsey replicates what he does for a quarter of the price. Scola and Landry really started eating into his minutes and his starting spot as of January. Now Artest takes that over completely. All of his starts came prior to mid January. He’s a 6’7 240 PF in a small forward’s body. Don’t think he can guard 3’s though maybe reserve forwards who are tweeners like himself. He can’t shoot the way Songalia can though.
by Jheiser3 on
Jul 30, 2008 9:37 AM EDT
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Battier is a Dukie
And one of the most hated, if not THE MOST HATED by Terps fans. No thanks.
by Unselds on Jul 30, 2008 9:11 AM EDT 0 recs
Said it before, saying it now
Artest could have helped the Wizards over the top. We have debated and discussed this for months now, and quickly shifted gears after all of that talk of Gilbert taking less and Abe finally eating the luxury tax to get a championship. All of this standing pat by Ernie is getting a little bit old. The Big Three are great, when healthy, but you need that “role player” or whatever you want to call him, to make this team bulletproof. DeShawn would thrive off the bench with Artest at the 2. It should have been us. It should have been us.
by Unselds on Jul 30, 2008 9:31 AM EDT 0 recs
I don't agree
The circumstances weren’t right. We aren’t close to a championship, Houston is. We don’t have any real assets, Sacramento did (BJax’s contract is expiring and Greene’s an intriguing young player). We still need to build more of a foundation before we make a big move. Artest only has one more year on his contract, so if he didn’t get us there this year, there was no point.
I’ll have a post about this, but our time to make a move is next season, when we have lots of expiring contracts and youngsters who have hopefully shown more than they have already (Young, McGee, Pech, McGuire, our 09 first-round pick, etc.). Hopefully, this year’s Wizards showed enough to at least be a team that approaches 50 wins. Then, we’d really be close to being a contender.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Pradamaster on
Jul 30, 2008 11:20 AM EDT
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Agree on disagreeing
I think the Wiz need role players….not a swagger jacker….regardless of Artest’s benefits.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It Dot Net
by Truth About It on
Jul 30, 2008 12:51 PM EDT
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We won't be able to afford him
And I don’t think he’s the missing piece. How does he fit in next to Caron and Antawn? How will he work in the Princeton? Is his defense really at the level it was even two years ago?
That those are even questions make me pause. Plus, Artest is the one guy who has potential to overthrow an entire locker room with his knucklehead-ness.
I’m going to post about possible targets later today, but Artest ain’t one of them.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Pradamaster on
Jul 30, 2008 12:29 PM EDT
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Allow me to retort
The headline on CNNSI is “Artest deal makes Rockets a contender in Western Conference.” Why on Earth do you think the Rockets are closer to a championship than the Wizards? Doesn’t Rick Adelman run the Princeton? How do we know that this year isn’t our only shot with Arenas, Jamison and Butler all playing healthy? Shooting guard is our weakest position, and that’s why Artest would fit in with Caron and Antawn. That cancer stuff is bull. First you say that we can’t afford Artest, and then you say he’ll be a knucklehead. It’s not both. He’s in a contract year. If it works out, the Wiz could be in a position to sign him with expiring contracts. He’s not so stupid that he’ll act out again and miss out on a huge payday. Let me also remind everyone that our defense SUCKS. I can’t believe we dismiss this player so easily, but talk about Bonzi Wells and Darius Miles.
by Unselds on
Jul 30, 2008 12:41 PM EDT
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Bonzi and Miles are a zillion times cheaper
We can afford them with our tax situation, and we won’t have to give anybody up. We can’t afford Artest.
Adelman doesn’t run the Princeton. Sacramento ran the Princeton under Adelman because Pete Carrol was their assistant coach. Adelman’s offense depends on his personnel. He didn’t run the Princeton in Portland in the early 90s, after all.
Artest doesn’t play shooting guard. I’m not sure how that helps your argument.
And Houston is closer to a championship. They won 55 games without Yao for half the season. They won 54 the year before that and 51 two years ago. The Wizards won 43 games this year, 41 in 2007, 42 in 2006 and 45 before that.
The cancer stuff is not bull. When has Artest actually behaved for an entire season? Better yet, when was the last time Artest’s presence really transcended a team. It’s happened once in his career: 05/06 with the Kings. In Indiana, they were great until the brawl, but Artest was merely a cog in a well-oiled machine. Chemistry is not showing up your coach and not hogging the ball when there are more efficient scorers on your team. Sacramento had one player, Kevin Martin, who was better than Artest. The Wizards have three. Artest stole shots from Martin. If he pulls that here, he’ll be stealing from three players who are better than him offensively.
Also, his defense has slipped in recent seasons. He’d definitely be a boost, but there are guys who could be good defenders available for much less money.
So yes, it is both that we can’t afford him. He makes seven times what Bonzi and Miles make, and all three would be one-year investments). Additionally, he’s a knucklehead that won’t mesh well here, because he forces everyone to change positions and dominates the ball too much offensively. Better yet, he has a long, long history of chemistry problems, both visible and more subtle. I don’t get why they are mutually exclusive in your mind.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Pradamaster on
Jul 30, 2008 1:33 PM EDT
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Edit
Houston won 52 games in 07, not 54. My bad.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Pradamaster on
Jul 30, 2008 1:34 PM EDT
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And the first sentece in the last paragraph
Should read “it is both that we can’t afford him and he’s a knucklehead.”
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Pradamaster on
Jul 30, 2008 1:35 PM EDT
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Artest is a great risk for Houston
Their window is limited….and the fact that Adelman is the coach seals to deal on it being a good move for the Rockets in my opinion.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It Dot Net
by Truth About It on Jul 30, 2008 12:53 PM EDT 0 recs
I still think we need another player
I understand your points about Artest and I certainly don’t think he is comparable to a player that can be had for a bag of donuts, but I think Boston and L.A. have shown that you need to make changes to get to the next level. I thought that was what the Wizards wanted to do when all the Gilbert talk was circulating. Looks to me like we had similar pieces to make this trade that Houston had. I wouldn’t worry too much about the biggest of knuckleheads on a playoff team in a contract year. I just don’t want to have another “if we were healthy” year. And why not play Ron at the 2 or as sixth man? As for the Rockets being a contender, I don’t look at record so much as success in the playoffs. They exited in the first round three times in a row, making it there last year without their star player. Sound familiar?
by Unselds on Jul 30, 2008 2:29 PM EDT 0 recs
I agree we need another player eventually
I just don’t think Artest’s the guy.
I don’t want to foreshadow the piece I’m writing later, but one guy I’d like to see us make a run for in the 2009 offseason is Joe Johnson. I figure he’s not in Atlanta’s long-term plans and I’m also guessing that he’ll want out. He makes a ton of dough, but he’d be an awesome fit as a starting two guard here. He can play either guard position well, making him a great fit for the Princeton, does a great job of getting into the lane and is a solid shooter. He’s also a pretty good defender, so my thinking is he’ll help the defense out a little.
He’s set to make 15 million in 2009/10, so it’ll take a lot. My best guess, without checking the trade machine, is something like Etan, Daniels and Nick for JJ. That gives Atlanta a lot of money in expiring contracts and (hopefully) a potential young replacement.
That’d give us this:
PG: Arenas/Brown
SG: Johnson/Stevenson
SF: Butler/McGuire
PF: Jamison/Blatche/Songaila
C: Haywood/McGee/Pecherov
A little thin in the backcourt, but otherwise, that’d dynamite. Maybe Pech goes instead of Nick, I don’t know. Maybe we can convince ATL to take on Songaila instead of AD.
Either way, Johnson expires after the 2010 season, so we’d have the same amount of cap room (~43 million) to sign Haywood and JJ. If we give Johnson something like 3 years/45 million and Haywood 4 years/36 million, that puts our payroll at 62 million. We could use the MLE to get another PG and still be under the tax with draft picks and small contracts for Brown and McGuire.
Arenas/PG/Brown
Johnson/Stevenson/2010 pick
Butler/2009 pick/McGuire
Jamison/Blatche/Songaila
Haywood/McGee/Pecherov
Then Stevenson, Songaila and Pech expire in time to re-sign Caron in 2011.
That’s just one option, though.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Pradamaster on
Jul 30, 2008 4:27 PM EDT
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Well that didn't take long.
Hopefully, he’s not fighting anymore and going after a guy in the stands,” Yao said, according to the Chronicle.When asked about those comments, Artest said Yao had bought into “all the propaganda” about him, according to The Sacramento Bee.
“I understand what Yao said, but I’m still ghetto,” Artest said, according to the report. “That’s not going to change. I’m never going to change my culture. Yao has played with a lot of black players, but I don’t think he’s ever played with a black player that really represents his culture as much as I represent my culture. Once Yao Ming gets to know me, he’ll understand what I’m about.
“If you go back to the brawl, that’s a culture issue right there,” Artest added, according to the report. “Somebody was disrespecting me, so he’s got to understand where I’m coming from. People that know me know that Ron Artest never changed.”
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jul 31, 2008 11:06 AM EDT 0 recs
OMG
That is one of the worst quotes I’ve ever read.
Let me get this straight, one of about 14,000 fans “disrespects” you, so running into the stands and beating up some other random guy is a “culture” issue? Is that the “culture” you represent? I really don’t think that is what black culture is all about. Plus I’m not sure where “propaganda” comes into it, I mean it was a pretty well documented incident…I don’t think “footage” is really “propaganda”.
This guy was suspended for a YEAR over this. Is he really defending his actions? Maybe in the dark recesses of his brain late at night he can try to justify that brawl to himself and maybe a few select loved ones…but out loud? TO THE MEDIA? This guy is crazy AND stupid. And he seems to have some serious self-destructive impulses. He won’t be happy till he’s destroyed himself. He’s all yours Houston.
by MR on
Jul 31, 2008 4:49 PM EDT
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Yeah
Though, to be fair, Yao was out of line for initially questioning the effect on team chemistry.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Pradamaster on
Jul 31, 2008 4:54 PM EDT
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Maybe something got lost a little in translation
From what I know of Yao I dont think he would have meant to call out Artest. Who knows though, maybe he thought as the best player on the team (or at least the most important) he needed to lay some ground rules…. if that was his intent he will soon realize that Artest is absolutely uncontrollable. Let sleeping dogs lie…
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on
Jul 31, 2008 5:56 PM EDT
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PTI
Had Artest on last night. They have already made nice. Artest is not playing in the NBA for his brain, but neither is Brett Favre in the NFL.
by Unselds on
Aug 1, 2008 2:40 PM EDT
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What does that even mean?
I have no quarrels with Artest’s brain. It’s his mouth that’s the issue.
Brett Favre never destroyed a franchise like Artest did.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Pradamaster on
Aug 1, 2008 2:52 PM EDT
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