Finals day discussion question number two

by Pradamaster on May 7, 2008 3:19 PM EDT in Coaching

Yesterday's fun exercise got far more responses than I expected, which is great. The purpose was not necessarily to find the one perfect guy (though for each individual, it was). Really, it was for us as a collective, now having a list of who we all think would fit in best, to think about the type of player who would help us most. Normally, we'd go from general to specific, but here, I think it paid to do the reverse.

Based on our responses, clearly most of us feel we need to find someone who has "toughness." That kind of what I expected, and I mostly agree with it. Still, it's important to make the distinction between tough guys who can contribute and tough guys who can't. Basically, if we're looking for a "banger," we should get someone who has strong rebound rates. If we're looking for a "pure point guard," we should get someone with a good assist rate. If we're looking for a "lockdown defender," well, that's trickier, but we should still find someone that has strong defensive numbers (and I'm not talking steals and blocks).

For reference, here's a list of who we came up with for our price tag. Free agents are italicized.

Raja Bell
Antonio McDyess
Joe Smith
P.J. Brown
Kurt Thomas
James Posey (player option)
Eduardo Najera
Charlie Villanueva
Chris Duhon
Jason Maxiell
Quentin Richardson
Chris Richard
Francisco Elson
Linas Kleiza
Ronny Turiaf (restricted)
Quinton Ross
Dikembe Mutumbo
Alonzo Mourning
Rodney Carney
Mikhael Pietrus
DJ Strawberry
John Salmons (borderline)
Brandon Bass

We'll eventually revisit this thread (and do add to it if you so please), but for now, here's the question for the next day or two.

Eddie Jordan. Undoubtedly, Wizards nation is divided on him keeping his job, but many of those reasons ("he's not the coach to take us to the next level") are only indirectly related to his actual coaching.

So here's today's question. Let's ignore the question of whether Eddie should return next year for a second. The point of this question isn't for people to advocate firing or retaining him, because the sense I get is that Eddie is neither a perfect or horrifically awful head coach.

What are Eddie's biggest strengths? What are Eddie's biggest weaknesses? Spell out both, but don't decide yet whether one side outweighs the other. Just describe both.

0 recs | Comment 13 comments | Add your comment

Read Related

Story-email Email | Print |

Comments

Eddie Jordan

Offensive system
DC guy
Is willing to check his ego and defer to his assistants
Ability to keep a team together and not let them get too high or low (most of the time)

Not a motivator
Is a substitution pattern tinkerer (although this bothers others much more than it bothers me)

by Truth About It on May 7, 2008 3:30 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

a headscratcher

strengths:

tactics
players coach

weaknesses:

tactics
players coach

by DarrellWalkerFan on May 7, 2008 4:01 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Definitely hard to answer

Prada, it’s so hard to effectively evaluate some NBA coaches…Byron Scott was “exposed” as incompetent after EJ left and Kidd turned on him; with Chris Paul, he’s now a genius. EJ sort of falls in the same bucket…did Washington start winning in ‘04 because his system works or the talent level went up? Did the ‘06-’08 Wiz overachieve considering injuries, or did they perform to reasonable expectations given All-Star seasons and intra-conference competition?

Can we agree that some of Eddie’s weaknesses have become, if not strengths, at least not liabilities—he’s settled on an effective rotation, used his “player’s coach” persona to keep the team’s confidence despite massive uncertainty/all the big personalities, and grown less stubborn. But again, it’s hard to know where the credit should go…how much of Brendan’s great year was EJ mending the fences/using him wisely vs. BTH knowing he’d be the starting center?

But since you asked for a list…

Clear weakness: Defensive system. Hate to throw it on EJ, but zero progress in five years.

Underrated strength: Media approachability, poise. He makes the team more fun to follow; deftly handles the unpredictability of guys like Gil and DSS.

by WRG on May 7, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Yes but

I would agree that he deftly handles the unpredictability of guys like Gil but should it really be this way? I think as a weakness he seems to have very little control over gilbert. gilbert comes back from injury without telling his coach, hangs it all up without telling his coach. I think that is a big problem and shows that he might be too much of a players coach. I guess I want to see more discipline over this team.

by ooba on May 7, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Well obviously it's hard

I agree that Eddie’s a really difficult case, but that’s why I posed the question. I think that, in a lot of ways, Eddie gets credit for what he doesn’t deserve, and also gets blamed for what he can’t really control, just like you said.

But if we’re really going to get a good idea of whether he’s the right guy going forward, we should at least substantiate what makes him a good coach and what makes him a bad coach.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Pradamaster on May 7, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Defensive Progress

I would say that there was finally progress this year…..and that’s where I touched on Eddie’s ability to defer to his assistants (Randy Ayers)....albeit, his hand might have been forced by Ernie Gruns.

by Truth About It on May 7, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

OK here goes

Pluses:
1. players coach
2. has proven that with at least one bonafide All-Star, can coach a team to the playoffs
3. is a better disicplinarian than advertised (his “from the bench to the butt to the brain” is classic)
4. Has his own doctrine, but willing to give things a try (a la breaking his “Hack-A-Ben” rule)

Minuses:
1. Doesn’t seem to have much faith in “big men”
2. Hasn’t figured out who the best player on this team is
3. Not known for being defensive-minded, which is needed in the playoffs
4. Sometimes…the combinations he puts out there…I just don’t know

by Pryme on May 7, 2008 5:04 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Echo

I don’t mean to focus so heavily on the negative, but all my positives have been covered pretty well.

Pros:

1. Great offensive mind. He has installed a system that works to the strengths of our team.
2. Four straight playoff appearances.
3. I love how invested Eddie is in this team. You can see it just from the way he reacts after games. I think that is because of another pro – he’s home grown.

Cons:

1. Rotation? I am baffled at times by the five players he chooses to send on the floor. He shows obvious favoritism and rewards those players with minutes they don’t deserve. Michael Ruffin and Darius Songaila instantly come to mind here. I see other teams giving their young guys a chance and reaping the benefits. How many times have you been watching a game and said to yourself “Would it really hurt to throw Nick Young and Blatche out there instead of Mason and Songaila?” or my favorite, “They should put McGuire in to D him up.”

2. Absolutely no defense. Is there a team that gives up more career nights to worse players? I think hiring Ayers was a wise decision. I’d like to see how this defense does with another off-season of work. A majority of this falls on the players so I am hoping Ernie addresses this in the off-season. I’d like to see us pick up a Joey Dorsey type player in the draft who will do nothing but get boards and block shots as a backup to Haywood. His personality may not seem like the ideal fit for our locker room, but that’s a good thing in my opinion. Anyone to keep LeBron out of the lane. That brings me to my next con.

3. Our team is SOFT. Sorry I had to say it. We are beyond the normal soft, we are grandma’s hands soft. Last year we needed an infusion of youth into our lineup, now we desperately need to infuse some grit and toughness. Don’t get me wrong, we can pretend to be hard with the best of them. We proved that against Cleveland. Just because you foul the shit out of people and talk a lot doesnt make you tough.

This isnt all bad though. I appreciate having character guys in the locker room. We are just too nice. Personally, I think it’s so bad that I would gamble on an Artest in an instant. I think Eddie’s coaching style has cultivated an environment of “softness” and I would like to see that change.

That being said, I think Eddie Jordan should definitely be back next year. You can’t say enough about the job he did this year. He managed to field a damn good team despite the fact that his rotation was in flux all year. He deserves another year with a healthy squad. If it’s another one and done for us next year then that may be it.

by Romans12 on May 7, 2008 6:57 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Eddie Jordan is very much a players coach and caters to this team. There are very few coaching candidates out there that will let Gilbert Arenas, DeShawn Stevenson, Antonio Daniels, Nick Young, Dominic McGuire, and others, joke around as much as they do. He fits this team well and does a terrific job motivating his players to perform at a high level as we saw when the Wizards were without Caron Butler and Gilbert Arenas for over a month in the winter.

However, that being said, his rotations are very questionable. He doesn’t make obvious changes late in the game, the perfect example for this being in the Lakers game back in March where the Lakers got a big offensive board late in the game to seal victory. Also, his adjustments in these playoffs were questionable and although he claimed his plan was to ‘make the other Cavs beat us’, LeBron torched us and we did not shut him down as he claimed we would.

Backbone of the DMV

by NY1 on May 7, 2008 7:34 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Players Coach?

I’ve seen this comment a number of times and I hear it talked about on T.V. frequently. From what I can tell a player’s coach is somebody who instills little to no discipline, doesn’t care much about defense, and doesn’t sack up and bench players when they deserve it (due to on or off court ridiculousness).

I’m devil’s advocate here, but somebody tell me why I’m wrong anyway.

by five by five on May 7, 2008 11:46 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

It's mostly been said...

I don’t disagree with anything really anyone has talked about. There is one minus that I would like to add and it was shown in Game 6 of the Wizards/Cavs series.

When the crap is about to hit the fan, Eddie doesn’t think outside the box to get something done or a shot in the arm. When our offense was seriously stalling, where was Nick Young? Granted he’s a rookie and prone to mistakes, but there is no mistake that he could’ve provided something… drives to the hoop, knock down a three, etc. You don’t have to keep him in for long, just give a shot in the arm. No Taser either for defense? Le sigh.

"My only regret is that I have boneitis." - That Guy on Futurama

by Wizards on May 8, 2008 9:26 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

My 2 cents

Pros:
The players like/respect him.
He maximizes his players offensive capabilities.
He’s better at doing more with less that most coaches in the NBA.

Cons:
Defense is not his strong suit by any means.
The team always seems to get off to a slow start each season.
As has been mentioned by just about everyone, rotations and adjustments.
Terrible endorser.

Bullets Forever: Where fancy numbers and YouTube come together.

by JakeTheSnake on May 8, 2008 10:37 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Eddie

lol, those are some pretty bad commercials.
I love Eddie’s calm demeanor. I’ve never felt that screaming at someone served as a good motivational tool. Unlike the screamers, Eddie seems like the kind of guy I could work for or that I’d let coach my kids.
That being said, the comment about guys having career days against us is very true. There has got to be something a coach can do to improve the defense, particularly the 3 point D. Despite the improve defense this year, we gave up the most 3 point shots in history. Puts a lot of pressure on the offense to try and match.

by hotplate on May 8, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs