Bullets Forever: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:





A Wise man once said: "Do Nothing?"

Is that really what this team should do?  Bring everyone back yet again? 

That's the question I have for Mike Wise after he penned this column in today's edition of the Post.  His central thesis is that "continuity wins in the NBA," and because of that, the Wizards should basically bring back the same team as they had this year. 

I'm a big fan of Wise's writing.  His preseason column was eerily foreshadowing, and I remember soaking it up and agreeing with practically all of it.  That said, he stretched a narrow point (don't break up the BIg 3) way too far here.

I used to be a back-up-the-truck guy who believed blowing up a roster was the best way to improve an NBA franchise. Not only did the Mavericks and Suns prove me wrong, taken out in one round after making blockbuster midseason trades this past season, but the Wizards have made me reconsider that thinking altogether.    

Already, we have a problem here.  First of all, the Mavericks and the Suns won 50 games in the Western Conference, and just so happened to lose to better teams.  Secondly, that makes them no different than the Wizards, who lost in the first round to an inferior club in Cleveland.  Finally, you know who's leading both conferences?  Boston and the Lakers.  The same Celtics who made two blockbuster trades in the offseason.  The same Lakers who made the huge midseason trade for Pau Gasol.  It's funny how we forget about how they've built their teams.

The thinking is the Wizards' all-stars will be healthier, their youngsters will add muscle and maturity and Grunfeld will find a key acquisition to help Eddie Jordan's cause.

It's not a sexy strategy. It's certainly not going to shake up the league. But in the NBA today, where continuity has helped keep San Antonio, Detroit and Utah alive, it works.

First of all, Utah is an odd example.  They completely remodeled their team a few years ago, signing Okur, trading for Boozer, and drafting Williams.  That core has only been together for three seasons, and they made the playoffs only twice in that span.

More importantly, did continuity allow San Antonio and Detroit to win, or did winning allow Detroit and San Antonio to maintain continuity?  Since 2005, when the two teams played in the Finals, yeah, they've maintained "continuity."  San Antonio's top four in 05 was Parker, Ginobili, Bowen, and Duncan, as it arguably is today.  Detroit's top four in 05 was Billups, Rip and the two Wallaces, and while Ben is gone, a holdover, Prince, has stepped in.  But what about in the years immediately preceeding their championships?

Pistons 02 Pistons 04 Pistons 08
PG: Chucky Atkins Chauncey Billups Chauncey Billups
SG: Jerry Stackhouse Richard Hamilton Richard Hamilton
SF: Michael Curry Tayshaun Prince Tayshaun Prince
PF: Clifford Robinson Rasheed Wallace Rasheed Wallace
C: Ben Wallace Ben Wallace Antonio McDyess
Jon Barry Mehmet Okur Jason Maxiell
Corloss Williamson Corloss Williamson Rodney Stuckey
Dana Barros Lindsey Hunter Jarvis Hayes

Detroit won 50 games in 2002, but they flamed out to the Celtics in the second round.  Two years later, they won the championship, with only two holdovers from their 2002 Top 8 still in the 2004 Top 8 (Ben Wallace and Williamson).  Four of the starters in 2004 weren't even on the team in 2002.  Billups was signed as a free agent after the season, Hamilton and Stackhouse were traded for each other, Prince was drafted, and Wallace was acquired in a mdiseason trade in 2004.  It was only after they won that they maintained "continuity," and even so, they've replaced Ben Wallace and completely remodeled their bench.

How about San Antonio?  Their situation is more unique, because they actually won in 2003 and 2005, but let's use 2005 as our example.

03 05 08
Tony Parker Tony Parker Tony Parker
Stephen Jackson Manu Ginobili Manu Ginobili
Bruce Bowen Bruce Bowen Bruce Bowen
Tim Duncan Tim Duncan Tim Duncan
David Robinson Nazr Mohammad Fabricio Oberto
Malik Rose Rasho Nesterovic Kurt Thomas
Manu Ginobili Robert Horry Ime Udoka
Speedy Claxton Brent Barry Michael Finley

Here, you see a little more semblance of continuity.  Tim Duncan has always been the starting power forward, Bruce Bowen has always been the starting small forward, and Tony Parker has always been the starting point guard.  Similarly, Manu Ginobili has always been around.  At the same time, though, you see different veterans plugged in around the core guys.  What was Stephen Jackson, Malik Rose, David Robinson, and Speedy Claxton in 03 turned into Nazr Mohammad, Rasho Nesterovic, Robert Horry and Brent Barry in 05.  In 08, Barry and Horry remain, but they've been buried on the bench, and the new surrounding cast is Oberto, Thomas, Udoka and Finley.  So really, there's continuity, but only at the top, and only after titles were won.

Wise seems to advocate the San Antonio model over the Detroit one.  Fine.  I'm in favor of keeping our Big 3 together, and I can see the argument for keeping Eddie Jordan (I'm on the fence there).  But then, he takes his argument a step too far. 

A year ago I wrote it would be hard to win a summer-league run, let alone an NBA playoff game, with Brendan Haywood, Antonio Daniels, Roger Mason Jr., Darius Songaila and then-Wizard Michael Ruffin on the court at the same time, which they were in Game 2 against Cleveland in 2007.

A year later, I owe those players an apology -- especially Mason, who I also stupidly mentioned as a player the organization should part ways with.

Not only was he a consummate professional in the locker room, he worked on his game until he became an indispensable role player -- Vinny Johnson in training. Now he's a free agent and there is concern about whether the Wizards are too guard-heavy (Nick Young needs more minutes) and will have enough salary-cap room to re-sign Mason. The Wizards don't need to get any younger; they need veterans off the bench who can fill it up like that.

First of all, to all sportswriters, can we please stop comparing any bench guard that can score to Vinnie Johnson?  It's just lazy.  Johnson's was all about the midrange game; Mason was all about the three-pointers.  Big difference.

But seriously, what's the point of keeping role players when your team is stuck in neutral?  That's not how Detroit operated, and that's certainly not how San Antonio operated.  It clogs your cap space and prevents you from having the assets necessary to maneuver for role player upgrades.  San Antonio would never have been able to trade for Kurt Thomas, Nazr Mohammad, or others if they signed re-signed role players like Mason.  Similarly, Detroit's trade for Rasheed in 04, which put them over the top, would never have been possible if they had guys like Williamson and Barry on long-term deals. 

Mason had a nice season, but is completely redundant on a healthy roster.  We don't need a fifth guard, not when Nick Young needs playing time and Antonio Daniels continues to be effective (and on a long term contract to boot).  I don't care about professionalism (AD is plenty professional, as is Jamison), and frankly, Mason isn't really much of a veteran.  His big season is going to mean someone will pay him up to 3-4 million dollars a year.  Do we really want that for our fifth guard?  The luxury tax and salary cap mean this is a zero-sum game, so re-signing Mason takes away money for another free agent that could help us in another area.  For example, if we re-signed Mason, we wouldn't have money for another wing defender or a big rebounding machine in the lane.

In closing ...

But who might well meet up in the NBA Finals again in a month?

That's right, the geezers who stayed together in Motown and San Antonio. Months after Jason Kidd flamed out in Dallas, and Phoenix lasted a mere five games against the Spurs, continuity is again proving to be king in the NBA.

... Unless the Lakers or Celtics win, in which case, the theory is shot. 

2 recs | Comment 20 comments | Add your comment

Read Related

Story-email Email | Print |

Comments

Display:

The funny thing

For Ben Gordon, the comparison is an insult, but for Roger Mason, it’s a compliment.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Pradamaster on May 5, 2008 1:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

good post

Voice of reason here. I certainly have to agree on the Mason analysis. We could use the money elsewhere and he is going to command something close to a Deshawn salary – which is starter or 1st-guard-off-the-bench money, not 5th-guard money. And let’s get it straight – there is absolutely no reason NY can’t be at least as effective next year as Mason was this year. Mason didn’t bring much in the way of defense and isn’t near as explosive as NY. I can live w/ NY, at a much lower salary, filling the shoes of Mason. (Also, I would say that we probably do need a fifth guard in case of injuries, but we can get one through the draft or free agency).

Getting buckets since 2003.

by Icantfeelmyface on May 5, 2008 1:51 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

99% Agree

I have nightmares of Buck howling “Backbreaker!” as Mason poses in a jump-shot follow-through at midcourt w/ a different uniform on, but he’ll be too expensive and NY showed enough this past season to earn a chance.

My only real difference of opinon stems from the notion that the Lakers made “a big trade.” They gave up garbage and got gold in return. Phoenix, Dallas, and Cleveland all gave up intregal parts of their teams to get their trade targets. The Lakers gave up spare parts, so I don’t think their continuity was ever tested…unless you consider adjusting to a player (Pau) who can actually catch the basketball as a test. After Kwam-Kwam, this skill must have seemed like a revelation. Joking aside, I would argue that the Lakers have been relatively “continous” since the Shaq trade. I don’t consider drafting well (Farmar, Bynum), letting young players develop (Vujajic, Walton, Turiaf), re-signing old buddies (Fischer), retaining your studs (Bryant and Odom), and stealing candy from a dumbass baby (the Pau trade) terribly roster-shaking.

by jvflail on May 5, 2008 2:15 PM EDT reply reply   1 recs

Fair enough

I suppose I could counter the last point by saying the Lakers’ pecking order was altered by bringing in Gasol, but you’re right, they’re pretty continuous because they kept most of their core pieces even after the trade.

At the very least, though, the Lakers did make a major change to their core. That, alone, is different from San Antonio and Detroit in the past couple years.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Pradamaster on May 5, 2008 2:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I'll buy that for a dollar

I was kinda splittin hairs anyway, but the clarification makes sense to me especially with respect to the Wiz’s core free agent situation.

One team you didn’t mention who supports your argument is Cleveland. I’d argue that without their big, mid-season, core-altering trade, they would’ve had a much harder time against us. Every piece they brought in hurt us big-time at some point during the series, not to mention that the overall size and toughness the trade brought in gave Cleveland a huge advantage on the boards overall. Granted, their real core – Bron Bron – hasn’t changed, but no team since Danny Manning’s Jayhawk’s had a championship-level one-man core. So, if the %$#ing Cavs go on to win the championship, you’d have to point to the trade as a big reason why.

So,Yes: Mike Wise’s next article should be all about how teams need to make drastic, roster-changing, core-altering moves to succeed in the playoffs.

by jvflail on May 5, 2008 3:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

They were already really tough on the glass

before the trade, but yeah, their new pieces hurt us, particularly West and Wallace. I don’t know if I’d go as far as you in suggesting they put the Cavs over the top (I think we would have lost even if they had Gooden and Hughes), but they certainly helped.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Pradamaster on May 5, 2008 3:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Lamar Odom.

Is just fine with the adjustment to the pecking order…..he was uncomfortable with even being the 2nd fiddle.

by Truth About It on May 6, 2008 12:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Ideally Gil and AJ make things easy on us.

Gil and AJ could do us huge favors – Gil by NOT opting out and playing the final year of his contract, AJ by not demanding more than 3 years, thus letting us evaluate the team with a fully healthy core, but without entrenching the roster for the next half decade. I’d like to see a much improved Butler, a still solid AJ and a willing-to-distribute GA get one more chance to show us if they can be that team that led the East halfway through last season. But i would prefer that we have flexibility If things don’t work out.

Is Gil opting out a forgone conclusion? I’m not so sure. Since it’s possible he won’t get a max deal this year might he want to play the final year of his contract and earn that big deal back?

Getting buckets since 2003.

by Icantfeelmyface on May 5, 2008 2:55 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

I hope he doesn't opt-out

And I agree, it doesn’t make much sense for him to do so. His value couldn’t possibly be lower than it is right now, unless he were to get hurt again.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Pradamaster on May 5, 2008 2:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Gil will opt out

Everything he’s said indicates he’s putting a lot of value on long-term security. Of course he’d like a raise in the process, but the difference between 6-years/$90MM (let’s say) and max money isn’t huge, and I think he wants to lock it up now.

Assuming we can get him for a reasonable price (my number is made up), it won’t hurt us unless the knee remains an issue. If this core doesn’t work out he’ll be tradeable. Ernie will make sure AJ is as well, either by giving him a 3-year deal (most likely) or a 5-year deal at less money. Point is, we’re not locked into anything if this core doesn’t work out in ‘08-’09.

by RamVA on May 5, 2008 5:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

amen

excelent post. this is exactly my thinking. when im talking to my friends, its always “we made the playoffs four years in a row. we’re doing great!” but at a certain point, just ,making the playoffs isnt good enough. we’ll have to wait and see who becomes available in the free agent market and how much money/years gil and jamison ask for.

who looks to be available this summer? that information doesnt reach me so quick out here in the holy land

by joshp on May 5, 2008 4:28 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

stating the obvious

you know what would have been great? if we’d actually had the big three healthy most of THIS year so EG could have made a proper evaluation of the team before these contracts came up.

then again, if we’d had those guys healthy and the team didn’t have the expected success, maybe we would have lost those assets to free agency.

i personally don’t think a healthy gil gets the wiz past cleveland (i just don’t see him solving the problems we have with that team), so i think a shake up is in order. but if you let those guys walk, there’s no guarantee you’re going to get something comparable via free agency or the draft in the near future.

so, like ram said, you need to sign those guys to reasonable contracts and then use them as assets. if EG wants, we can see if a healthy big 3 can have more success. personally, i don’t think it will at this point. i think we need more of an inside presence. so, if EG did a sign and trade now i’d be fine with that. either way, i see a trade of AJ or GA at some point down the line. maybe it’d be for the best if that trade were made once even the players are ready to admit the shake up is necessary though.

by DarrellWalkerFan on May 5, 2008 5:54 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

I agree with you

I forsee the Big 3 breaking up eventually, but now’s not the right time. Not when you committed to all your role players last year (new contracts for DeShawn and Andray, etc). Not when Gil’s value is at an all-time low.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Pradamaster on May 5, 2008 11:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

No panic moves, please

Even if Grunfeld feels the team needs a change, the wise move is to stay pat until there is a good deal available.

Any big trade or signing has a hidden cost: fewer resources to make a big move in the future.

When Phoenix traded for Shaq, not only did they commit to paying the big lug for the next couple years, but they lost an expiring contract and All-Star in Shawn Marion who they could have used to go after Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, or whoever struck their fancy.

The Wiz have several promising young players on cheap contracts, all their own draft picks, and about $13 million worth of expiring contracts in the 09-10 season. Very few teams in the NBA are this flexible while still consistently making the playoffs.

As much as I love our rookies, I’d love to see the Wiz pull of a trade like the Garnett and Gasol deals. But rushing into something now might make a real blockbuster harder to accomplish later on.

by Princeton Offender on May 6, 2008 1:46 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Lakers and Celtics.

It would be nice to get steals as they did….but we need to realize that we are the Wizards…we are not going to get anything close to those gifts in our lap.

by Truth About It on May 6, 2008 12:11 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

am i the only one

who thinks minnesota made a smart trade? (considering their circumstances)

the stupid moves by minnesota were the moves that let it get to that point, particularly the joe smith debacle.

by DarrellWalkerFan on May 6, 2008 1:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Eh

Chicago was rumored to have offered Luol Deng, Tyson Chandler, and the No. 2 pick in the 2006 draft, which could have been LaMarcus Aldridge, Rudy Gay, or Tyrus Thomas, for Garnett. That would have been a better package, IMO, than Boston’s.

Now, if Boston had given up Rajon Rondo instead of Gerald Green …

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Pradamaster on May 6, 2008 2:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Still a Good Deal for Minnesota

Your point was that McHale could have gotten a little more, but I still think he did well for his team considering how badly KG wanted out of there. He got a ton of young talent to build around and I think at least one of his acquired pieces will become an All-Star some season.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on May 7, 2008 12:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Yeah

He definitely could have done a lot worse.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Pradamaster on May 7, 2008 2:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Washington Wizards.
Ad-medium-smq

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
The WENDYs (Wizards END of Year awards)

Recent FanPosts

Siggy2_copy_small
THE PERFECT SCENARIO... open for discussion
Small
Scouting the Wiz
Nick-young-dunks-nice_small
What do we trade the 18th pick for?
Gugliottawas_small
Another Reason to Dislike LeBron
Pech_small
Songaila Suspended
Spark_small
Are You Kidding? Songaila Suspended
Img_0150_small
MAKE HIM GO LEFT
Gugliottawas_small
Great Article From Wilbon
Small
Fire Eddie, Bring in Avery Johnson

Post New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini


Ad-banner-faketeams

Head honchos

Gheorghe_small Pradamaster

Mediaday6_small JakeTheSnake

Big_small Truth About It

ad

Site Meter