Chris Wilcox Rumors

by mamemimo on May 19, 2008 5:51 PM EDT

Just poking around ESPN, when I saw this one:

Ed Stefanski might consider making a run at the SuperSonics' Chris Wilcox. The 25-year-old Wilcox has good size (6-foot-10, 235 pounds), likes to play with his back to the basket -- the Sixers desperately need a low-post scorer -- and is heading into the final year of his contract (he'll earn $6.75 million).

Would Seattle be willing to take Utah's first-rounder for Wilcox?

I'm sorry, I know we've got a bunch of developing big men, but if we can get Wilcox for the 18th, I say do it.

Of course, this is counting on Sam Presti to be dumb enough to make that trade, so its probably not going to happen.

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Link?

Also, we need to match salary since we’re over the cap.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Pradamaster on May 19, 2008 8:19 PM EDT 0 recs

Oops. Forgot.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

You have to scroll down to Monday’s rumors.

The Washington Wizards: providing career scoring nights for unknown opposing bench players since 2004.

by mamemimo on May 20, 2008 12:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

They took on Kurt Thomas for two first rounders. Would they take Etan if we included the 18th pick? No? ok. Songalia and Pesh make the salaries work. Include the 18th pick and get back one of their high second rounders, or two.

Wilcox would bring tough juice to the 4 spot.
Collison is a tougher move because he is a base-year-compensation contract.

by Jheiser3 on May 19, 2008 10:14 PM EDT 0 recs

Ah, right

Good call there.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Pradamaster on May 20, 2008 1:15 AM EDT up 0 recs

Songaila and Pesh (and #18) for Wilcox, um, sign me up

Presti seems pretty smart. I can’t see him giving away a young, talented big man for spare parts, but you never know until you ask. Maybe he’ll part with Jeff Green for a handful of beans too (of course this depends on the beans’ salary to make it work).

"Now, obviously individual production does not unilaterally equal better team production, but there's a high level of causation."

by Vanilla Gorilla on May 20, 2008 9:23 AM EDT up 0 recs

Sounds good, but I don't think it's right for the Wizards

The reason they like Songaila so much is his shooting and ability to pass. Look at his Assist Rate: 18.7—that’s not far from Caron Butler (19.0) and DeShawn Stevenson (20.6) and is on point for the times that Gilbert Arenas played (18.7 as well).

I like Wilcox’s game, but having the three-headed monster of Haywood, Etan, and Wilcox at center doesn’t really help the Wizards.

Much of the Princeton (or Eddie Jordan Pro-Style Princeton) is predicated on having big men who can pass…..and we can’t rely on Andray Blatche to do all of that.

BTW….Wilcox’s Assist Rate is 8.0.

Plus, Wilcox’s Rebound Rate (13.6) and Blocks Per 40 (0.8) is not a drastic improvement over Songaila (10.2) and (0.4).

If it’s Etan instead of Songaila, then full steam ahead….....I mean, Pesh is essentially a first round pick, so the Sonics might be tempted by Etan, Pesh and the 18th if they don’t think they will be able to retain Wilcox after next season.

by Truth About It on May 20, 2008 10:38 AM EDT up 0 recs

This is why I don't like per minute stats.

I think they can be very misleading, if you just look at the numbers. The difference is HOW they play. While I do agree that Songalia is a much better passer – his game is completely different. Songalia is scores on the perimeter, relying alot on his midrange shot. We have plenty of people who can make jumpshots on the Wizards.

Wilcox gives something we don’t have and have been screaming for for years – someone who plays in the low block at the 4. He also has much better size the Songalia for spot work at the 5, and unlike Darius, is a great finisher at the hoop. He’d fit in well with an up-tempo game, if we go back to it.

I like Darius, but I’d definitely grab Wilcox.

The Washington Wizards: providing career scoring nights for unknown opposing bench players since 2004.

by mamemimo on May 20, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

Presti is going to lose said talented young big man for nothing after this season. Instead of doing that, he could get a cheap replacement (Songalia) a first round pick (18) and a 4 who can shoot (Pesh). The San Antonio system that these teams (SA, Seattle, Cleveland) are implementing needs a reserve 4 who can shoot. Thats why Horry is still around, Matt Bonner got an extension, why Cleveland paid Donyell Marshall and why Seattle took him off their hands in exchange for Szerbiak’s contract.

Songalia actually has value whereas Etan, right now, has none.

by Jheiser3 on May 20, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

umm

seattle has never been a good team with wilcox in the lineup (and he’s had some talent around him in lewis and allen). he puts up decent numbers i suppose, but why do people think he’d be a difference maker for a winning team in DC? he has a pretty big contract, no? seems like a lot to take on for a role player.

i worry that people have a maryland crush on him. i’m seeing a lot of that on this site.

by DarrellWalkerFan on May 20, 2008 12:49 PM EDT 0 recs

Maryland crush?

I don’t think that’s the case here. The James Gist talk moreso than Wilcox. I think the main talk about Wilcox is the fact that he provides something that we’re lacking (defense, low-post ability, etc. etc.) and he might be a viable option. He may need the right system to flourish and all that and he may be a bust, but I don’t think people are jumping on the bandwagon because he played 1 (2?) years at UMD.

"My only regret is that I have boneitis." - That Guy on Futurama

by Wizards on May 20, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

DWF

I’m a Carolina fan so no UMD crushes here. I think Wilcox is a physical 4 that can play above the rim and would certainly benefit from playing up-tempo. He may be a reserve here at first, but long term (should they sign him to an extension) he’d be the starting 4 as Jamison fades to the bench. I don’t think this team goes anywhere in the playoffs playing small ball (2 of their top 3 interior guys at 6’8 and light too).

by Jheiser3 on May 20, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

No crush here...

He didnt do enough at Maryland to garner a MD crush. He did, however, dominate Drew Gooden when they played Kansas in the final four which was almost enough for the MD crush, but not quite.

I say get Wilcox if you can. To echo mamemimo, we already have a ton of big men that can shoot jumpers. We have too many slow, passive, unathletic big man. Who’s the guy on this team who is going to take the ball and shove it down peoples throat in the paint?

I think we may be battling a case of fan bias. Songaila is not as good as everyone is saying he is. Yes, hes a good passer and a decent mid range shooter but I think he hurts us more than he helps. That’s not according to per, or assist rates, or rebounds per 48…just from playing and watching basketball my whole life.

I’m just tired of seeing McGuire and Blatche riding pine in favor of watching Darius get handled by Bosh, Garnett, Horford, the list goes on. He’s a nice player but nothing but a roadblock at this point.

by Romans12 on May 20, 2008 2:10 PM EDT 0 recs

And McGuire or Blatche can defend better?

by Truth About It on May 20, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up 0 recs

Not necessarilly

But I dont think they would do much worse. Those minutes would have been much better served going to those two. Songaila is essentially a finished product, I dont see him adding much to his game or improving in any areas.

McGuire and Blatche have so much potential that extra minutes can only help. I think our young players have excellent chances at being very good players if EJ would only give them a shot.

I’m tired of watching other teams give their young guys a chance and reaping the benefits.. Thaddeus Young and Julian Wright were entrenched on their benches earlier this year, but their coaches kept giving them chances, kept giving them minutes and they ended being major contributors at the end of the season and into the playoffs. Sure a lot of those minutes during the year may have come in times when their teams were winning or losing big, but we werent even smart enough to do that. Songaila and Roger Mason are even eating up the garbage minutes, its ridiculous. You gotta play these guys or they wont get any better.

by Romans12 on May 20, 2008 3:01 PM EDT 0 recs

Worst part as that it seemed like Eddie had figured it out: Nick could come in and score for you, McGuire could come in and rebound/defend. Then we get into spots here we need a scorer (Game 6) and Nick is nailed to the bench. So frustrating.

by Jheiser3 on May 20, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up 0 recs

I'm with you.....but

I think the young guys will get more run in time…..but they’ve got to earn it first.

Blatche certainly didn’t improve as much as we had hoped this past season.

And I really like McGuire, but I don’t think he’s close to being able to significantly contribute…just yet.

If D-Song can net us somebody like Wilcox….then great. I just hope Ernie could parlay Etan off on someone too.

I guess I am a D-Song defender because I see him as a big glue guy off the bench. Teams with hopes of advancing deep into the playoffs need his kind of attitude and versatility.

I can’t see how you can be upset with EJ for wanting to win…...Roger Mason and Darius Songaila gave the Wizards the best chance to pull out games. Period.

But that’s just my opinion.

by Truth About It on May 20, 2008 7:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

Can’t argue that kids have to earn time. What was frustrating, as others have pointed out, is that other teams found ways to get rookies minutes consistently enough that at the end of the year they were no longer considered rookies in the classical sense. Now compare that to how Eddie handled our guys.

But honestly, after 87 games in the NBA, everyone knew what Nick Young was capable of doing. he was inserted into game 2 and immediately broke down the Cleveland defense, missed but got his own rebound. he was taken out within a minute or two if memory serves. He was one of few wizards who matched up athletically too.

While Roger Mason was chucking up shots in Game 6 Nick was nailed to the bench. Facing elimination, Eddie let it roll. Maybe he felt the end was inevitable, it felt that way watching him coach thats for sure. In my mind, you’re minutes from summer vacation you don’t leave bullets in the chamber. Eddie did.

As for Songalia, I actually like his game. He’s one of the few good passers on the team. He can hit 19 footers at a solid rate. He IS a glue guy to bring off your bench. The problem is if he is your 1st big off the bench and effectively your backup Center. We’re small to begin with. Then we bring in a 6’8 backup center who lacks the bulk to hold his position defensively or under the offensive boards. Looks at his foul numbers from the Cleveland series.

Plus he lacks the vertical to defend the rim and if he does get an offensive board he has trouble converting. Example: In the Cleveland series he was 5-12 at close range.

Songalia is the type of player that teams love having as a 2nd or 3rd option. Thats part of why I consider him the best trade chip when salaries are factored into it as well. My contention is that as long he is our 1st interior option we’re in trouble, even moreso considering Jamison has the exact same deficiencies. Lebron isn’t the only terrible match-up for the Wiz. Joe Smith, Varajeo, Wallace and Big Z dwarf our inside guys in size and/or strength. Thats why I have focused on using Songalia to upgrade the ‘back-up center/1st Big’ position.

If we could accomplish this some other way I’m all for it. As it stands I see moving Darius as our best option.

by Jheiser3 on May 21, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

Exactly

It’s very frustrating. I honestly dont see EJ doing anything different next year. I almost feel like Ernie has to force his hand a little bit by getting rid of players that are getting the minutes that should be thrown to the young fellas.

That means letting Mason walk, and getting rid of Songaila. I like both of these players, they were solid contributors. Still, like I said before, they are just hindering the development of Blatche and Young. Maybe it was ok last year because they just werent ready to compete, but to me that is not acceptable this year.

I’d much rather be saying “Nick Young and Blatche have been getting better the last few weeks” than saying “Mason and Songaila continue to be solid.”

It’s time to find out what we have in Blatche and Young (whether it’s good or bad). Blatche needs a wake up call in the worst way, not in the form of bullets to the chest…but maybe another young, athletic big man to push him. I doubt he feels much competition for the future big man on this team from Darius Songaila. Having a guy like Wilcox might give him some actual competition for that title and wake him up to the fact that he has a very movable contract and would be extremely easy to deal. Just a hunch, but despite their friendship, I dont think Stewie is giving him much of a push either.

by Romans12 on May 20, 2008 5:35 PM EDT 0 recs

Blatche

I hate the idea of having to trade for guys just so someone can push Andray Blatche. C’mon…..the kid needs to be pushing himself.

And I’m sorry, the only ones hindering the development of Blatche and Young are Blatche and Young.

Hell, Andray would have seen much more run if his ass could stay out of foul trouble. —His Per 40 foul average is 6.2…....SIX POINT TWO!

And for Nick Young…..he needs to show that he has improved on defense and stop hanging his head so much if he wants to get more chances next season.

Sorry…..but let me reiterate….you can’t just give anyone minutes unless they earn them. And I’m not sure why anyone would do otherwise.

by Truth About It on May 20, 2008 7:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

I do believe

that garbage minutes at the end of blowouts are minutes that you can just give away. Most of those minutes for us went to people who had no business being on the court at that time. I usually felt that Mason and Songaila were getting a lot of those minutes.

I’m not sure hard work in practice would have “earned” them those minutes. It wasnt a matter of them earning it as much as it was about Eddie Jordan showing extreme favoritism to certain players.

by Romans12 on May 21, 2008 10:15 AM EDT up 0 recs

I mean

It’s hard for us to really know whether the young guys were working hard in practice and whether they would get the minutes possible if they, in fact, were. Eddie is stubborn, but a lot of coaches are as well. Remember, it was Ed Stepanski who ordered Mo Cheeks to play Thaddeus Young.

But a credo of forcing people to “earn” their minutes, while nice in theory, opens up a ton of problems. Namely, what exactly does it mean to “earn” minutes? Young has to do different things than Blatche, and both have to do different things than Songaila or Mason. The universal credo of “playing well” is so subjective, and it allows personal biases to sneak in. Eddie isn’t unlike many coaches in favoring the untalented guy who works hard over the talented guy who could be doing more. Sometimes, that means putting the worse guy on the floor when we really need the more talented one.

On the whole, I think Eddie did a better job with his player rotations than in years past. I can certainly quibble with his play of the young guys, but I’m not majorly concerned. Blatche had his chances in the playoffs, which is more than we could say last year.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Pradamaster on May 21, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

Hey,

Just to make salaries work. How bout D-Song, 18th and Mason in a sign-and trade?

The Washington Wizards: providing career scoring nights for unknown opposing bench players since 2004.

by mamemimo on May 20, 2008 6:40 PM EDT 0 recs

I also don't get the Wilcox love

He’s had plenty of chances to put it all together in Seattle, but he hasn’t been able to show more than flashes. Like Truth mentioned, I don’t see how he fits at all into the Princeton … if we got him, it would have to be under a new coach with a new offensive system. I wouldn’t go as far as to say the Terp love explains things, but I do think many here are overstating his contributions. I’d much rather have Collison, who reminds me of Songaila, but with rebounding ability.

I do agree that Blatche and Young need to play more, and I wholeheartedly agree that keeping Mason, who makes many of the same mistakes Young makes, is silly. I’m not sure about Songaila, though. He played so well at the end of the year, and while I don’t like the length of his contract, it’s not so bad that he couldn’t be buried if Blatche significantly improved. More importantly, though, if we’re really looking for an example for Blatche to emulate, why not Songaila? Songaila is much less talented than Blatche, and has significantly less length, yet he still is effective because he’s smart and gets the most out of his body. That’s exactly what Blatche needs to do with himself.

Of course, that all assumes Eddie rewards Blatche for improving, but it’s not like most coaches would stubbornly stick with the vet either. Maybe it is on Ernie to let Eddie know that Blatche deserves more playing time. But either way, I don’t see the harm in keeping Songaila around when he was so good at the end of the year.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Pradamaster on May 20, 2008 9:22 PM EDT 0 recs

That should read

“most coaches wouldn’t stubbornly stick with the vet either.”

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Pradamaster on May 21, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

Prada, you're overthinking things

Let’s just sign Drew Nicholas, Byron Mouton, and Juan Dixon this summer, deal for Wilcox and Blake, and spring Baxter from lockup. We already know that’s a title-winning combo.

by WRG on May 21, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

That's true...

Songaila is a great example of a guy who maximizes his ability…he’s also a great example of hustle and work ethic. These young guys definitely need vets to emulate and learn from. While Songaila, I would think, is pretty good at that, I would much rather want Blatche attached to the hip of AJ.

I’m not saying Chris Wilcox is the answer by any means. I dont think we should give up a ton for him alone. I’m just saying Songaila, at this point in our roster development, is overkill. There is nothing he does on the floor that other people on the team cannot do adequately. Why not use him as a piece to bring in some other guys that bring something different to the table? You want to talk about favoritism…how many minutes do you think EJ is going to give a healthy Etan Thomas if we cant deal him? Etan always seemed to be Eddie’s guy.

With a healthy Etan and the young guys on the roster progressing like they should…then Songaila is, like you said, reduced to being buried on the bench, making him a hell of a lot more difficult to deal next year with that contract.

by Romans12 on May 21, 2008 1:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

the problem is that Mo Sene is still viewed as a project, Swift isn’t healthy enough to count on and Johan Petro doesn’t excite them. That leaves Wilcox and Collison as the guys they have to rely on. Besides Wilcox being in the last year of his deal I don’t see the impulse to move them.

by Jheiser3 on May 21, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up 0 recs