Blazers Edge: Trade for Jamison?
A discussion about whether the Blazers should pursue Antawn Jamison. I jumped in the comments section to propose Jamison for Travis Outlaw, Channing Frye and either Sergio Rodriguez or Jerrryd Bayless. Outlaw could be good enough to move Caron the 2, Frye gives us cap room and Sergio/Bayless could be our PG of the future.
Either way, worth reading.
about 1 year ago
Mike Prada
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I would
Do that trade in a heartbeat. Mainly because 1) I don’t think we will be good enough to compete before AJ tails off, and 2) I don’t think AJ’s offense compensates for the poor defense and the times he literally shoots us out of games. The only reason to keep him is if we think that the core of CB3, AJ and Arenas can lead us deep into the playoffs next year, and frankly, that’s no more of a gamble than this trade. Portland does this trade because AJ is still a high-level 20/10 veteran and they have plenty of players to pick him up on defense.
I think a trade could benefit both teams.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Dec 3, 2008 4:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
My final offer was
Jamison for Outlaw, Frye, Bayless and a lottery-protected first-rounder.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Now just call Ernie...
The real benefit of this trade is that we don’t have AJ’s salary 3 years from now while he undergoes the decline that we all expect to see. I mean, in 3 years the opposing teams will be playing 5 on 4 when we are on defense (if they aren’t already). I think he might be okay off the bench in years 3 and 4, but that’s an expensive 6th man.
I probably wouldn’t trade him until Arenas comes back — as for Portland, they are playing well now, why not wait a little longer to determine if they even need AJ?
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Dec 3, 2008 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like
Portland would be giving up a lot, unless Pritchard would be thinking that Jamison is the vet who may put them over the championship edge.
But with the arrival of Batum, and Webster coming back at some point, Portland may want to get rid of Outlaw….at least that’s what the Rip City Project said.
http://www.truthaboutit.net/2008/12/blogger-q-rip-city-project-portland.html
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It Dot Net
by Truth About It on Dec 4, 2008 1:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to sure.
I’m not big on trading Jamison unless we get a “banger” type player at least in return. (Not necessarily an All-Star, but someone who won’t get pushed around.)
Channing Frye doesn’t really do it for me, and while I like Bayless, I’m not sold on him as a point guard – he seems a little too high usage to pair with Arenas in the backcourt.
The Washington Wizards: providing career scoring nights for unknown opposing bench players since 2004.
by mamemimo on Dec 3, 2008 5:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
We could get Sergio Rodriguez instead
And I wouldn’t re-sign Frye after the season, preferring the cap relief. Perhaps Ike Diogu would be better?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ew. That's just wrong Prada.
Although, I didn’t realize Frye’s contract was expiring.
The Washington Wizards: providing career scoring nights for unknown opposing bench players since 2004.
by mamemimo on Dec 3, 2008 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I might prefer Rodriguez
if only because he has a cheaper contract ($874k vs. close to $2m for Bayless). Every little bit helps.
by Jon L on Dec 3, 2008 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No
Jamison is a fine player but we are doing well without a vet, we dont even know what we have yet on our young roster, points and hustle from the three is not a priority its been a constant most of the season. It would also screw with our cap this coming offseason.
by Dragonage on Dec 3, 2008 6:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't trading Jamison
be admitting a mistake for resigning him?
by hibachi on Dec 3, 2008 6:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not a mistake necessarily
I’d view it more as a response to “changing facts on the ground.”
by Jon L on Dec 3, 2008 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
jamison
you couldn’t trade jamison for anybody but frye straight up. 3 players for jamison? you’re on drugs.
by blindboy on Dec 3, 2008 6:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Go away
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DO IT, IF ANYBODY CAN, ERNIE CAN -- Go Ernie Go!
I’m talking 1:1 — I’ll take Bayless for AJ.
by ucantstopbernard on Dec 3, 2008 7:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
'cept
the salaries don’t match.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Dec 3, 2008 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stay the Course
I don’t love AJ’s salary long-term, but I think we’re underestimating his importance in the locker room. We’ve got a young team without great workout habits. AJ’s character is worth about as much as his double-doubles to us.
by sierradave on Dec 3, 2008 8:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It cracks me up
How little respect AJ gets around here.
- in scoring, #13 rebounding, #4 in double doubles, shoots 49, 33 3pt, 79%ft, #16 in points+rebounds+assists…He’s one of the few Wizards who can create his own shot or play with his back to the basket…
His slow footspeed makes him a poor defender, but that is compensated by his all around offensive game. As I’ve said before, if he were an above average defender he could be all-NBA caliber. As is he’s a legit near-perennial all-star.
by MR on Dec 4, 2008 12:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
That’s #21 in scoring.
Not #1.
That would be awesome.
by MR on Dec 4, 2008 12:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he's good
I don’t deny that.
The issue is that he’s 32 and is getting older and we need to reload around a younger core.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Dec 4, 2008 1:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think
his game will age fairly well. I don’t think his dropoff will be too terrible as he gets older. The thing that ages first is foot speed, which he doesn’t rely on anyway.
by MR on Dec 4, 2008 7:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Point
You got a point.
As players age, their athleticism declines – aren’t as quick…. can’t jump as high…and that usually results in a decline in their production.
Except Jamison doesn’t rely on quickness or jumping ability or speed. He relies on positioning, great hands, and an uncanny knack for the ball. His “flip shots”, “dipsy doo’s”, half hooks and spin shots give him the ability to score inside, even against bigger, faster , quicker and more athletic players. AND he’s a pretty good from the outside too; with the ability to hit the 3 ball consistently.
His Defense already sucks – so it can’t get much worse.
I can definitely see him putting up double doubles into his mid-30’s…. even as a bench player.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Dec 4, 2008 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When He's Healthy, That Is
What you two don’t mention is that when you get older, your body is less capable of quickly recovering from physical exertion. As anyone over 30 can attest to, the same activities that would leave you sore for a day or two when you are 21 make you sore for over a week when you are 31. Which logically means that you can expect Jamison to make more frequent trips to the IR as his contract runs its course.
Jamison may not rely on his athleticism, but he still has to rely on his physical ability to play, just like everyone else.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Dec 4, 2008 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Injury
Injury hasn’t been a big problem for AJ in the past (I am knocking on wood right now as I type this) mostly because he keeps himself in good shape in the offseason. I’m no more worried about that than I am with any player on the team.
BTW, I don’t think there is an IR anymore.
by MR on Dec 4, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yet
Like Wall Street stocks, past performance is not a guarantee of future returns. Antawn has been fairly healthy in his career, but he did miss a month each in 2006-07 and in 2004-05. As he continues to get older, don’t assume that his body won’t start to break down more just because it hasn’t when he was younger.
Oh, and I meant IR in a general sense. Inactive or whatever.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Dec 4, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course it's possible
but there is nothing to indicate it’s a real concern in my view.
In any case, it’s comforting to be disagreeing with you about something again.
by MR on Dec 4, 2008 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I assume?
As he continues to get older, don’t assume that his body won’t start to break down more just because it hasn’t when he was younger.
Actually, what I assume is that as he gets older, he’ll get fewer minutes. Jamison has been one of the most durable Wizards (and Maverick, and Warrior).
I expect that in 2 years, he’ll be coming off the bench – playing more like 25 minutes per game.
I’ll stick to my original comment that Jamison should still be very productive into his mid-30’s…. And I won’t assume that he’ll be injury prone.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Dec 4, 2008 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Makes Sense
If Jamison comes off the bench and plays fewer minutes, then his body won’t be taking the same toll that it is now. If that happens, then that would negate at least somewhat the effect his aging will have on his health. Still, if that’s that plan, then I don’t see why Jamison warrants such a big contract. Not that many bench players who only play 25 MPG make $15 million per season. EG must have surmised (since you don’t like the word "assume") that AJ would still be as productive (or close to it) through whole games that he is today.
BTW, I meant “don’t assume” as a common expression, not an accusation. I’m sorry if you took offense.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Dec 4, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not offended....
and I like the discussion….. You always seem to have at least some salient and logical thoughts; and you seem to be a real fan (as most on this board are)…
As I remember Jamison signed a 4-year $50Million deal, right?
Since I’m not privy to Ernie’s plans, I can only go by what he’s done in the past; and by what seems logical… I believe that he paid Jamison exactly what he’s worth NOW. And there’s no denying that he’s worth $10 Million per year now, especially since Philly was supposedly ready to make him a big offer this off-season.
I think the salary for this year is fine ($9.9 Million) ; and next years is OK too ($11.6 Million). I’m mildly worried about the 3rd year of the contract at $13.3 Million… But not worried about the last year at all. ($15.0 Million)
Two years from now, in the 3rd year of Jamison’s contract, the Wizards should have a ready replacement at the PF position (Blatche? McGee? Draft Pick? Trade acquisition?)… Anyway, Ernie may be able to trade him to a contender if he’s still a productive player. There’s always some team out there that is close to contending for the Championship, but just needs that one final piece. Jamison fills a lot of holes – he can score inside – he can score outside – he rebounds – and he’s a good clubhouse presence and leader.
Three years from now, the 4th year of the contract, it will be an “expiring contract” and very easy to get rid of…. expecially at $15.0 Million… Some team out there, looking to re-tool will be willing to trade talent for a big expiring contract so they can go after FA’s the next Summer.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Dec 4, 2008 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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