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The long-term roster plan post

For college students, Thanksgiving is the chance to recharge your batteries so you can finish the semester.  It's a time to reflect and then move forward.

During that reflection period, I couldn't help but also think about the Wizards.  And when I did, the inevitable question was what to do with our roster going forward.

Before the injuries to Brendan Haywood and Gilbert Arenas, I thought the plan was pretty simple.  I figured we'd just go with what we had in 2009, assuming that, with good health, this team could win 45-50 games and challenge for the second round of the playoffs.  Then, in the summer of 2009 and during 2010, we could pawn off two of our 2010 expiring contracts (Etan Thomas, Antonio Daniels), throw in a youngster or two and make a move for an impact player on a team looking to rebuild and join the 2010 frenzy.  We'd then contend with our Big 3+1 until Caron Butler and Antawn Jamison's contracts ran out in 2011 and 2012, respectively.  Seemed like a fairly reasonable four-year plan.

But that plan rested on three assumptions that have not come to fruition.  One, of course, is that we would be pretty good this year, which isn't happening even though we're clearly not this bad.  Two, because we would remain pretty good, Eddie Jordan would remain our coach.  This is key because, as of right now, we have a roster that's very suited to running the Princeton offense (more on this later).  Three, we would stay healthy enough to be pretty good, which hasn't happened yet.

So in light of our 13-game start, we might need to rethink some things about this plan.  Not everything, mind you, but some things.  New sitations are arising and we need to address them in some way.

Make the jump for more.

Star-divide

First off, lights, camera, salaries!  Click to enlarge.

Contracts_medium

The point of showing this is twofold.  One, we're not getting far enough under the cap in 2010 to join the free agent frenzy.  The only way it could happen is if we trade Antawn Jamison and Darius Songaila/DeShawn Stevenson for contracts that expire before 2010 and elect not to re-sign Haywood or extend Nick Young.  We currently are about 3.75 million under the projected cap in 2010, but that's misleading.  First off, we're adding at least two draft picks to that number, which probably puts us over the cap.  Second, the projected cap number on there is based on the CBA growing at the same rate it did last year, which is unlikely to happen because of the economy and the renegotiation of the CBA.  More importantly, that would give us just seven players under contract, and that seven includes Young and Haywood.  

Two, whether we like it or not, Gilbert Arenas is probably in for the long haul.  Trading Gilbert probably isn't going to be an option until much later in his contract.  Either he stays injured, in which case nobody will want him, or he recovers, in which case we'll want him because he's playing well.  If it's somewhere in the middle, then he still probably won't be traded by 2010 because most teams are going to be trying to trim salary to get in on the free agent market.  I happen to think that Gilbert needs to be a part of whatever plan we have anyway, since he's 26 and was so key to our success prior to last season, so I don't have a problem with this reality. 

So now that we know our salary, let's break this roster down into groups. 

The true untouchables: Gilbert Arenas, JaVale McGee

We've already talked about Arenas, so I won't go any further.  But any rebuilding plan we have must include McGee as well.  Guys with his athleticism and height don't grow on trees, and unlike Kwame and (possibly) Andray Blatche, it seems he has the dedication to get better.  We can't let that go for any reason.

Gone only if we completely flounder: Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood

Butler's not a cornerstone like Arenas, but I'm having a hard time finding a situation where trading him makes much sense.  I might give him up if we could get a comporable player who's younger and more durable while being in a similar salary bracket, but because Butler is underpaid for his production, those guys aren't easy to find.  Off the top of my head, the only names that remotely make sense are Josh Howard, Tayshaun Prince or Hedo Turkoglu.  And in the case of Prince, we'd need to get one of Detroit's young bigs as well in return for pawning off one of our bad contracts, since Prince isn't nearly as good as Butler.  So that's probably not happening.

I suppose Butler could also go if necessary to get a superstar big man, but those guys don't exactly come on the market very often.  One thing's for sure, though: because of his age and contract status (three more years at a really good price), trading Butler to rebuild makes little sense.  Either keep him and don't re-sign him or trade him to make an upgrade, which isn't easy considering Butler's status as a player.

Haywood's necessary because he's our best defender.  He's a free agent after 2010, but we need to lock him up at a decent price.  Even if Haywood becomes a backup center, you need guys like that to compete.  The only way I'd let him go is if we found a better big to pair with McGee and possibly Blatche, and that's unlikely to happen.

Those four guys will be the biggest parts of our rebuilding plan, at least as far as guys on the roster.  But where does everyone else fit in?

Young guys to trade only for a big upgrade: Andray Blatche, Nick Young

Blatche was in Category 1 entering the season, but McGee's play has surprised me so much that Blatche has been bumped down.  Blatche's slow start to the season hasn't helped matters either.  Still, it's important to remember that Blatche is under contract for just 3 million per season for the next four years.  He's still quite young and if he takes another step forward and just becomes a competent reserve, we still have a bargain. 

That said, I'm not so sure about where Blatche fits in anymore.  I think we all hoped he could be a power forward, but thus far, he's had his most success as a center.  With McGee and Haywood, center's in pretty good hands going forward, so that means Blatche will have to become a power forward again.  And I'm not sure how well he can do that.  Not to mention that, since neither Haywood nor McGee are strong rebounders, a bruising Charles Oakley-type at the 4 is probably a better fit for this team going forward. 

Young doesn't have that problem.  The backcourt is thin, so we probably need him in some capacity.  I'm still dubious of his ability to be a starter on a top-notch team because of his defense and passing struggles, but he can still be valuable as a sixth man.  Because of that, though, I'm reluctant to say he's an untouchable. 

Here only because of their contracts: Antonio Daniels, Etan Thomas

Both expire in 2010, so we should keep them in order to facilitate a trade for an impact player.  There's not much more to say beyond that.

Filler: Oleksiy Pecherov, Dee Brown, Juan Dixon, Dominic McGuire

Pech may have value to other teams, while McGuire may develop enough value for us to keep him around.  But none of these guys are important for the future.  We can do better than all four of these guys at their positions. 

Role players of the previous regime: DeShawn Stevenson, Darius Songaila

My feeling is that both of these guys need to go, but for entirely different reasons.  Stevenson needs to go because he has underperformed.  The initial hope was that he could be the wing that plays 24 minutes a game, gives excellent defense so that Butler's issues can be hidden and can be the yin to Nick Young's yang.  As recently as last season, I thought he could play that role long-term.  But I don't think he can do it anymore because of his declining defense, not because of his offense. 

DeShawn's defense has always been decent rather than awesome, but that's simply not the case anymore.  This season, the Wizards are giving up 19.6 more points/100 possessions with DeShawn on the court.  Even last season, DeShawn didn't have any tangible effect on the team's defensive efficiency.  I don't think DeShawn is as bad as he's been this year, but we need an upgrade on his position going forward.  We need someone who is a little more athletic and can cover 3s as well as 2s.  DeShawn's a little small, which really hurts, and he's too slow to guard the quickest wings. 

DeShawn was a nice find by EG, but he needs to be phased out.  I don't think anyone would take DeShawn now, but once his play picks up, I'd look to move him and get out of his contract.

Darius, however, needs to go because he has overperformed.  Songaila's skills are very useful for a contending team looking to add a piece to his bench, but they're too much of a luxury here, both because of his contract and because of the presence of all our young bigs. 

In terms of his contract, Darius runs all the way until 2011 for just under the mid-level exception.  That's not an albatross, but it's not chump change either.  We can use that money for more useful purposes down the road.  Those include re-signing our impact rookies, signing a backup point guard to eventually replace AD, signing a guy to replace DeShawn or getting a veteran backup center.  All of those are important areas to fill; more important areas that the position Songaila occupies.

To that final point, our frontcourt remains pretty crowded with young bigs.  There's JaVale and 'Dray, plus Pech if we think he's worth anything.  If we go big with our lottery pick this year (which makes a lot of sense), that's another young guy.  For a team that isn't contending, it makes more sense to trot out the young guy for backup minutes to see what they can do.  If we were making a push to be a player in the playoffs, then it's fine to give those minutes to Songaila in an attempt to win, but since we aren't going to be a playoff team most likely, there's no point.  Songaila was also signed to be a Princeton player, so he loses some value now that we're scrapping that system. 

His value is high now because he's playing very well, so I'd see if we can get anything for him.  Denver could use another big, so maybe we can get Chucky Atkins (3.24 million, expires in 09) and Renaldo Balkman (young'in who can be a cheap wing defender) for Darius.  Maybe Toronto will give us Joey Graham and Roko Ukic for Darius (wing defender and potential point guard).  New Orleans doesn't have many assets, but Darius seems like a good fit there.  Ditto for Cleveland, though they'd probably aim higher.  Perhaps we could do Songaila straight up for Sasha Pavlovic (expires in 09). 

Either way, these two role players have long contracts and are blocking key youngsters, so they should go.

That leaves us with...

I don't know what to do: Antawn Jamison

This is tough.  On the one hand, Jamison's still really productive, popular and a huge part of the team.  For all his faults, if we trade Jamison, it may be very difficult to find somebody to fill his spot in the lineup.  We also just re-signed him, so trading him would be admitting to making a mistake.

But I think it might be time to see what we can get for him.  By the time his contract runs out, he'll be 36.  He may be 34 before we morph into a serious contender.  At the time of the re-signing, the feeling was that we were close to making that leap, but this year clearly shows we aren't.  We could potentially put the money of his contract to better use, plus with a high lottery pick, we might be able to replace him pretty easily. 

The key, though, is we can't just give him away.  We need one of two things back in a trade.  Either we need a comporable player who is younger (e.g. Shawn Marion, Andrei Kirilenko, Gerald Wallace), or significant cap room and a promising young guy (e.g. Jamison/Songaila for Wally Szczerbiak/J.J. Hickson). 

What might be out there?  We talked about Cleveland, which would be a really good fit for Antawn.  We could use the same Antawn/Darius package to get Shawn Marion from Miami and then either re-sign Marion or take the cap room.  Portland might want a veteran, in which case we could take back Steve Blake (expiring), Joel Pryzbilla (good second center to play behind Haywood and help develop McGee) and Sergio Rodriguez (promising backup PG).  If the Lakers ever get fed up with Lamar Odom, we could offer Jamison/Songaila for his expiring contract like with Marion.  Toronto could give us Anthony Parker (expiring), Kris Humphries (inside banger) and Graham.

No matter what, Antawn would yield a very nice package that may not be there in future years.  With our team further away from contention than we all expected, I'd strongly consider that type of deal.       

So what do we need?

Going forward, we're likely going to have a few things in place.  In Arenas, Butler and Young, we have plenty of perimeter scoring.  Our center position's in decent shape with Haywood and the potential of McGee and Blatche.  Our lottery pick could yield us either a promising point guard to pair with Arenas (Rubio, Jennings) or a back-to-the-basket guy to score in the paint (Griffin), and if not, it'll still bring us somebody that can step right in.  We can use our expiring 2010 contracts and some of our young talent to bring somebody in who can help fill those other voids. 

That still does leave a lot of holes.  In particular, we need help defensively.  Haywood's return will help solve some of our problems, but not all of them.  We have no beefy rebounders to clean up misses and be physical post defenders, particularly if we trade Jamison.  We have no perimeter defenders that can help Arenas and Butler, since Stevenson isn't that guy.  And with Etan Thomas' decline and suckitude, it might pay to get another solid backup center. 

Offensively, we have firepower, but could still use some more parts.  It'd be nice to get a post scorer who could also shoot open jumpers.  Getting a backup point guard who can fill AD's role better than AD would be nice, and Butler still needs a good backup. 

I'd place our needs going forward as follows, in order of importance/difficulty of obtaining:

  1. A tough interior guy who can grab rebounds, score inside and hit jumpers to replace Jamison.  Hello Blake Griffin.
  2. An ace wing defender to split minutes with Nick Young
  3. A point guard, preferably one who can defend and shoot while being a low-usage, low-turnover guy
  4. A backup 4 who can rebound and score a bit inside
  5. A solid backup center
  6. A backup for Caron Butler

Number one can hopefully be filled through the draft.  It'll have to be.  We really need a stud to take that spot, and the draft is the best way to find that.  The alternative is to trade for somebody, but those types of players aren't usually available. 

Number two can be had in a trade or in free agency.  Shane Battier and Tayshaun Prince could be available if their teams fall off.  We could also get an impact scorer who can fill that role on our team.  Someone like Kirilenko, Gerald Wallace, even Joe Johnson.  If not, we can find someone who can fill 2 and 6 simultaneously. I bet we can get John Salmons from Sacramento pretty easily, because they're going to a youth movement (like AD and Pech).  Young guys like Thabo Sefolosha could be good options as well.

Three, four and five can be found through free agency in the next couple years.  While we won't have enough for a superstar, we could get a couple role players in the upcoming years.  Delonte West is a free agent after 2010 (non-guaranteed deal in 2011).  So is Luis Scola.  Hell, we could make a run at David Lee and steal him from New York if we clear enough cap room. 

 

It's hard to confine any of these options to certain avenues, but the key is that, save for number one, we don't need wholesale changes.  We can reload rather than rebuild.  In a healthy Arenas (hopefully) and Butler, you have two decent building blocks to contend soon.  There's plenty of young talent in McGee, Blatche, Young and our 2009 lottery pick.  We just need to replenish our role players, and that requires dealing away some guys we may like a lot.  

But it can be done.  We can have a plan that's between rebuilding and doing nothing and still be successful.

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It's a sad day when these discussions come up

but great post. I agree with your analysis, especially regarding getting a guy like blake griffin.

by hibachi on Dec 2, 2008 6:18 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I rather

draft Rubio over Griffiin, big men usually need a season or two of adjustment to really start producing and the Spainish phenom paired with Arenas back at 2 position would create a heck of a offense.

Jamison’s contract is far too long, and he’s still a defensive liability, let’s see him traded to a playoff team and try to get some cap room in return for the future.

by Fundefined on Dec 2, 2008 7:08 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually

PG’s historically has been the one position that has had an immediate impact and success…. Bigs usually take time to develop. Wings can have some success, if they’re used right and are drafted by the right team.

But PG’s, especially High Draft pick PG’s, can usually come in right away and contribute… (see Derrick Rose, D.J. Augustin, Mario Chalmers, Russell Westbrook, Mike Conley, Rajon Rondo, Sergio Rodriguez, Rodney Stuckey) – Those are just some of the PG’s drafted in the 1st round in the last 3 years. They are ALL contributing to their teams; and most are starters.

The other important thing to remember about about Ricky Rubio is his experience. He has been playing in the highest European leagues for years. GM’s have been drooling over him since he was 14…. And he’s still only 18.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Dec 2, 2008 8:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Chucky Atkins??

I don’t know if he’d be welcome back. Or want to. (Also shouldn’t be listed as Indiana under the tags).

I think I’m higher on Jamison than you. He seems to be underrated cyclically.

Great post though. Can’t disagree with much else.

by Aldo on Dec 2, 2008 7:20 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, I thought about that too

Can’t believe the Atkins saga was three years ago.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 2, 2008 7:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Awesome Post

You are the man Prada. Wicked analysis and I agree with almost everything aside from the luxury part on Darius. I understand your reasoning that he is worth more on a contender because he can fill some role but I do not think he has much left anymore at all.

The best option would be for Blatche to show some flashes and then trade him based on potential. I just do not believe he is going to be a consistent player in this League.

What? They don't have TV in the D-League? Don't watch me, watch TV.

by Mac G on Dec 2, 2008 10:44 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What to do

A small contingent of us Wizards fans wanted Antawn traded at the beginning of the 07-08 season and not to resign Gil for huge money (letting him walk if need be) because we saw this situation coming. ANYONE with half a brain could have seen this situation coming, except Grunfeld apparently. Now you have two team leaders, B and C guy if you will, that are getting paid combined less than the A guy, who’s actually not an A guy.

Only one team has won a ring since Michael Jordan retired, when the best player on the team was a shoot first guard. That was Dwyane Wade with the Heat. GA at his best is not close to Wade at his best. So to lock the franchise up for so long on such a player, hoping he would lead them to the promised land was a STUPID decision.

So the problem is, now you have to make drastic and rapid changes, and probably tank the team longer than you needed to in order to resurrect. Butler and Jamison will have to be let go or shipped prior to their expiring deals. Sad, because for the cap space they occupy they are excellent value.

What the Wiz need to use this season for is to now fix the Arenas mistake – irrespective of where the Wizards stand this year, when GA’s knee is ready to go, get him back and turn him loose so he can display what he still has left. Shop him for a trade and as soon as a suitor comes along, dump him and his fat salary. It’s an albatross this team does not need. Everything else is secondary to that right now.
 

by ericdc77 on Dec 3, 2008 8:19 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

great

then in 10 years we MIGHT be a playoff team again. or we’ll be the clippers

by joshp on Dec 3, 2008 9:58 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What?

groan

A small contingent of us Wizards fans wanted Antawn traded at the beginning of the 07-08 season and not to resign Gil for huge money (letting him walk if need be) because we saw this situation coming.

Give me your crystal ball. I guess you saw at the beginning of 07/08 that Brendan Haywood would get hurt, that Arenas wouldn’t make a full recovery, that Antawn wouldn’t get a big money offer from Philly, that Gilbert wouldn’t get a max offer from Golden State, that Caron would only play 58 games in 07/08 and that Roger Mason would break out, then leave the team.
    

Now you have two team leaders, B and C guy if you will, that are getting paid combined less than the A guy, who’s actually not an A guy.

What in God’s name are you talking about? Jamison and Butler make a combined 19 million this year, Gilbert makes 16 million. Next year, Caron and Antawn make 21 million, Gilbert 14 million. The year after, Caron and Antawn make around 24 million, Gilbert makes 17 million.

If you’re going to spew nonsense, at least be right.

Only one team has won a ring since Michael Jordan retired, when the best player on the team was a shoot first guard. That was Dwyane Wade with the Heat.

I guess Kobe Bryant and Chauncey Billups circa 2004 don’t exist then. Besides, who cares? To paraphrase Rick Pitino, Tim Duncan and Shaquille O’Neal aren’t walking through that door.

GA at his best is not close to Wade at his best.

Right, and Caron Butler at his best is right there with Dwayne Wade. We’d be so much closer if we pocketed Gilbert’s money for luxury tax savings (because unless we also dump Jamison, we have no cap room, as has been mentioned oh, only about 1,000,000 times on there) and made a run with Caron and Antawn.

now you have to make drastic and rapid changes, and probably tank the team longer than you needed to in order to resurrect.

Did you actually read the post?


Butler and Jamison will have to be let go or shipped prior to their expiring deals. Sad, because for the cap space they occupy they are excellent value.

Erm…no. Again, read the post.


What the Wiz need to use this season for is to now fix the Arenas mistake – irrespective of where the Wizards stand this year, when GA’s knee is ready to go, get him back and turn him loose so he can display what he still has left. Shop him for a trade and as soon as a suitor comes along, dump him and his fat salary. It’s an albatross this team does not need. Everything else is secondary to that right now.

This is beyond dumb. If Arenas returns to his former self, we’re getting back one of the 15 best players in basketball. Maybe 10. The “shoot-first” myth is dumb — yes, he could stand to lose a couple shots, but he’s a very efficient scorer because he makes a lot of threes and shoots a lot of free throws, neither of which is really incorporated into his FG% (threes are worth more, yet carry the same weight at FGA in FG%). If we trade him, it could be years until we find somebody as good as him. Years. Scoring options like Gilbert don’t grow on trees. You tink we’d lose all these close games if we had Arenas.

And if he’s not quite as good because of the injuries, then nobody will want him anyway. Talk to me when that happens. But yeah, the best player on the team is not an albatross. Besides, 6/111 is not a max contract.

And I haven’t even discussed your abhorrent tone. You decide that you are validated after 15 games just so you can say you were right all along. In your twisted world, you can never be wrong. And that’s absolutely unacceptable on here. You can be a jerk and you can be really dumb, but you can’t be both. That last post was both.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 10:19 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cocks the leg and farts in your general direction.
Give me your crystal ball. I guess you saw at the beginning of 07/08 that Brendan Haywood would get hurt, that Arenas wouldn’t make a full recovery, that Antawn wouldn’t get a big money offer from Philly, that Gilbert wouldn’t get a max offer from Golden State, that Caron would only play 58 games in 07/08 and that Roger Mason would break out, then leave the team.

You’re completely missing the point, it’s about forward planning. If you would give massive money to a guy without getting a complete medical clearance stating “he is ready to go now, no questions” would yous till give him $111M? A positive answer indicates a decerebrate state.
Jamison’s age, despite his productivity made him perfect trade bait – but to a long term deal I don’t think so. Who cares about Brendan, he wasn’t factored into the equation one way or another? I can take losing as a fan, I CAN’T take the feeling of long term hope being lost due to cap inflexibility. Simple.

I guess Kobe Bryant and Chauncey Billups circa 2004 don’t exist then. Besides, who cares? To paraphrase Rick Pitino, Tim Duncan and Shaquille O’Neal aren’t walking through that door.

Bzzz wrong answer. Did the Lakers win a ring in 04?? No and Shaq was the man on that team. Re-read the statement.

Am I to understand you are suggesting it’s ok to spend max money on a player who you know can’t lead you to a ring? Great, I nominate you for the next Knicks GM job.

Jamison and Butler make a combined 19 million this year, Gilbert makes 16 million. Next year, Caron and Antawn make 21 million, Gilbert 14 million. The year after, Caron and Antawn make around 24 million, Gilbert makes 17 million.

True, my rapid glean miscalculated. Bottom line – they are screwed either way you look at it.

Did you actually read the post?


No not all of it closely, so what?

Caron Butler at his best is right there with Dwayne Wade.

If you say so, dude.

And if he’s not quite as good because of the injuries, then nobody will want him anyway. Talk to me when that happens. But yeah, the best player on the team is not an albatross. Besides, 6/111 is not a max contract.

Where did I say max in my post? Anywhere? 6/$111 is still a boatload. Seen McGrady and his knee issues recently? You want anything like that? I’ll tell you one thing, after 15 games, Houston aren’t winning a ring either. Guards with knee issues are no good, I say move him.

And I haven’t even discussed your abhorrent tone………..In your twisted world, you can never be wrong. And that’s absolutely unacceptable on here. You can be a jerk and you can be really dumb, but you can’t be both. That last post was both.

Bite me. If personal attacks are condoned by the chief blogger around here and you were hoping for me to not visit your site again, you’ll be glad to know you achieved your goal.

by ericdc77 on Dec 3, 2008 10:57 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So basically

1. You admitted you didn’t really read the actual post, where I spent 5,000 words showing that our long-term cap flexibility isn’t, in fact, screwed if we make the right moves. You didn’t respond at all to anything in there even though you easily could have.

2. You compared Gilbert to Tracy McGrady, who IS a max-contract player.

3. You assumed I was talking about LA in 04 when I was referring to 01-02, where Kobe and Shaq were at least arguably 1 and 1a). You offered no retort.

4. You missed my sarcasm re: Butler.

5. You talk about forward planing without actually having an alternative plan. Like, what do we actually do with all that cap space? Chicago had cap space at the beginning of the decade and it got them Ron Mercer.

6. You accuse me of personal attacks when you say that “ANYONE with half a brain could have seen this situation coming.” Right. Insult the intelligence of those who disagree with you and then claim I make personal attacks. Brilliant.

7. Don’t let the door kick you on the way out.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 12:00 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I May Regret Sticking My Nose Into This Verbal Scuffle

But I do remember being very wary of throwing big money at Arenas when he had not shown he could play healthy since blowing out his knee. Granted, we wouldn’t have been able to sign anybody for this season even without his big salary, but at least he wouldn’t be sucking up so much cap space now that we are starting to consider rebuilding. GMs have to plan for everything, so I find it hard to believe that EG did not at least think that this Big 3 he’s assembled might not work and he’d have to start over soon. But he obviously did not give the thought much credence and now we can only hope that Arenas can be at least 90% of the player he used to be.

As it is, we just signed a guy to a $111 million contract to show up each game in a sports jacket. And it seems every timetable for his return keeps getting pushed further into the future. First he would be ready to start the season. Then he’ll be back in December. Now it’s January. When January comes, will it be February? March? If we are not in the playoff hunt by then, the whole season? EG couldn’t have foreseen all of this, but that’s why offering a huge contract to a guy who hasn’t been healthy in over a year is a big risk. And now EG is getting burned by it.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Dec 3, 2008 11:30 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well sure, it's a risk

I don’t want to rehash the long debate we’ve already had, but rebuilding’s also a risk. It’s just a matter of determining which is less risky. My feeling then and now is that there’s no real point to letting Gilbert walk unless you let Antawn walk too, in which case you get some cap room to rebuild around a 28-year old Caron Butler and role players who don’t expire until 2010 at the earliest. Letting Gilbert walk doesn’t give you any cap room.

And I think it’s still too premature to say EG got burned by it. It’s been 15 games. Let’s wait and see how Arenas looks.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 12:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

All is Not Lost Yet

I’m still optimistic for both the season and for Arenas. By being “burned” I only mean that it doesn’t look good when a GM’s prize free agent signing starts the season in a sports jacket due to a pre-existing condition. I’m wondering if anything would have been different had EG known that this would be the case. I’m assuming he at least thought it might be.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Dec 3, 2008 12:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd also like to point out

The alternatives to signing Arenas to a big long term contract were:

Plan A: Drop Arenas and Jamison and pursue a big name (note: “a”, as in ONE) Free Agent like Elton Brand (just coming off a bad leg injury) and the perennially injured Baron Davis.

Plan B: Drop Arenas – and go with a team made up around Butler and Jamison – with plenty of space under the Luxury tax, but with NO cap room flexibility for the foreseeable future (except for the Daniels and Thomas expiring contracts)…

Yes – I believe I was wary of giving Gilbert a big money, long term contract as well…. but in looking at the alternatives, I don’t believe there was anything else that the Wizards could do to get better. The only other options would have been to completely scrap the team and rebuild through the draft; which would take 3-4 years – or to drop as much salary as possible and compete with 10 other teams for the 2010 Free Agents. The Arenas/Butler/Jamison trio gives this team the best chance to compete for a Championship in the next several years.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Dec 3, 2008 12:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To cuppett's credit

He always thought of sign-and-trade possibilities as a third alternative to re-signing Arenas. One was to trade him for Jermaine O’Neal, which I really didn’t agree with, but at least was something.

So theoretically that also could have been possible.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 12:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

O'Neal is Hurt Right Now

So my alternative might not have been much better. And I’m not sure of what the CBA allows in terms of sign-and-trades. Let’s just hope Gil is 100% by January 1st.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Dec 3, 2008 12:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Arenas’ contract is for 492 regular season games.

We have now played less than 20.

Maybe everyone should take a chill pill on the ‘trade Arenas’ front.

by MR on Dec 3, 2008 5:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who's Suggesting We Trade Arenas Now?

Certainly not me. My sign-and-trade ideas date back to the early summer, before Arenas signed his fat contract. No team would want a $111 million contract for a player who can’t prove he’s healthy. We’re stuck with him, for better or for worse. Hopefully it gets better. But even though we’ve only played 20 games without him so far, we’ll have to wait at least 20 more before we can even think about getting him back. That is what is so frustrating about this situation.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Dec 3, 2008 11:56 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But you did reply to cuppett

Which is probably why he thought you were speaking to him.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 4, 2008 1:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I thought I was replying to the ongoing thread that you and e77 and others were going on about.

by MR on Dec 4, 2008 1:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I mean, I knew you weren't referring to cuppett

So it’s no big deal. But technically, you did click “reply” to cuppett’s comment, so that might have been what confused him.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 4, 2008 1:38 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, you're right

But combined with Dragonage’s comments and the comments by the ESPN writer that were referred to on another thread, it seemed to me that a small ‘trade Arenas’ murmur was starting.

by MR on Dec 4, 2008 1:46 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mistake?

Perhaps you should wait until you see Gilbert play before you call resigning him a mistake.
It’s easy to point backwards, and say X move was stupid… It’s much harder, in real life, to make the right moves – in the moment.

Outright releasing Arenas would have done NOTHING for the Wizards Salary Cap situation. Well, perhaps they could have retained Roger Mason…. Releasing both Arenas (a perennial All-Star) and Jamison (a 2 time All-Star) would have freed up enough Cap space to sign ONE (1) high level Free Agent.

But name one high level Free Agent that would want to come to the Wizards without Arenas and Jamison. That team (without Arenas & Jamison) is a Lottery team. No big name free agent with a choice of teams would want to go to a Lottery team. Brand would NOT have come here. Baron Davis would NOT have signed here.

So then you’re left with building through the draft…. Great. 3 or 4 years of drafting and developing players before you can be competitive again. (or you could be like Memphis…. continually in a “rebuilding through the draft” mode)

No. For better or worse, the only real option was to resign Arenas and Jamison.

Let’s wait until we see Arenas on the court again, before we start calling Ernie Grunfeld “stupid”.

(by the way… a lot of people called Pfund “stupid” for insisting that the Heat select Dwyane Wade in the 2003 draft – fans were calling for Heinrich or TJ Ford)

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Dec 3, 2008 12:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i don't think the 2-12 start (now 3-12) really changes things

this wasn’t our year. this is a year for arenas to reintegrate himself, not for the wiz to go deep in the playoffs.

the next two years are our years. to me the plan (as locked in over the summer) stays the same. the only downside is it looks – to me – like blatche probably won’t ever be an impact player, and etan looks done. disappointing, but not the nail in the coffin.

by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 3, 2008 10:32 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm Not Ready to Admit That Yet
this wasn’t our year. this is a year for arenas to reintegrate himself, not for the wiz to go deep in the playoffs.

If we can sneek into the playoffs, we would probably face the Celtics. For whatever reason, a healthy Wizards team as currently comprised matches up well with the Celtics. With a healthy Arenas and Haywood, we could pull an upset ala Golden State circa 2007. If that happens, then the door opens up for us to make a deep run. I wouldn’t say that this is likely, but it is still at least possible. I’m not yet willing to tank this season until this option is completely off the table. Right now, the Wizards are only 4 games out of the 8th seed in the East with 67 games to go. I would still say we have life.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Dec 3, 2008 11:12 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Outsider looking in

I enjoy getting other clubs inside perspectives but,,,,,,,are you kidding me(your definately kidding yourselves) The Wiz are in salerie cap pergatory. I just do not get the Arenas deal last summer,,never will, he’s a poor poor mans version of a Bernard King.(That guy was legit) That is not worth a max contract. That one is going to hurt for a very long time.

The Wiz need to blow it up now while the east is in rebuild mold so they can be competitve in the future, the celts are the only contender in the conferance this year. Toronto and Cleveland may be in a world of hurt after 2010, the east will be wide open NY is doing it right, get rid of saleries and get some young lottery picks and then make a push for a couple all-stars in the near future.

Keep Butler take a few jabs this season and get rid of a starting unit full of complimentary players and get some bona-fide starters.

Come on Wiz I expect better from your organization.

by Dragonage on Dec 3, 2008 11:24 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thank you for your outsider perspective

I’m glad we have a bunch of prophets on the site.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 12:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey

Im not bashing your club, but teams fall in love with the 1-2-3 position and they are not going to take teams far into the playoffs,(Jordan the only exception) why wouldent the wiz want to spend some money on a quality 4-5,(they had the money) there a ton of fours every year that can be had the 5 is a different beast but man you have alot of jack tied up in the Point guard, shooting guard and small forward position.

Instead of re-signing Arenas this summer why did the the Wiz not persue a big time PF like I dont know,,,,,,,Elton Brand.

If you put a poll up last summer and asked Wiz fan what they wanted to do in fa Persue Elton Brand or re-sign Arenas it would have been a landslide. Brand was available.

by Dragonage on Dec 3, 2008 12:17 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Umm
why wouldent the wiz want to spend some money on a quality 4-5,(they had the money)

No, they didn’t. Not unless they released Jamison and Brand.

there a ton of fours every year that can be had

Like who? Besides, Jamison’s a 4.

Instead of re-signing Arenas this summer why did the the Wiz not persue a big time PF like I dont know,,,,,,,Elton Brand.

If you put a poll up last summer and asked Wiz fan what they wanted to do in fa Persue Elton Brand or re-sign Arenas it would have been a landslide. Brand was available.

Completely besides the point. The question isn’t Gilbert or Elton Brand, it’s whether making a run an Elton Brand (with no guarantee of signing him) is better than having BOTH Arenas and Antawn Jamison. I feel like a broken record saying this, but since you’re an outsider, I’ll do it, but electing to not re-sign Gilbert would not have put us far enough under the salary cap to sign Brand. We would have been about 4 million under, whereas Brand signed for over 15 million. Had we also renounced Jamison, we would have been about 14 million dollars under. Which is still less than Brand signed for. You want to try to convince Brand to come to D.C. for less money?

Please guys, if you have alternative possibilities, do some research into their plausibility.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 12:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Should read

Jamison and ARENAS after the first blockquote.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 3, 2008 12:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

mainly

because in order to free up the cap space to get brand, we would have had to let arenas AND jamison walk.

this is the common misconception with all the ‘should have let arenas walk and sign x’ arguments.

by joshp on Dec 3, 2008 12:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And

Common fan mistakes – not knowing the complexities of the Collective Bargaining Agreement – including the Maximum Salary chart,
the difference between the Salary Cap and the Luxury Tax

Most fans don’t understand that the rules were put in place to try to even the playing field. So that, unlike in Baseball where the Yankees, Dodgers and Cubs can just throw hundreds of millions of dollars around at Free Agents – in Basketball, there are rules restricting what can and cannot be done.

Basic tenets that all fans should know:
Unless a team is under the salary cap, they cannot sign players without using an exception.
Main Exceptions are: Minimum salary Exception, Mid-Level exception (roughly $5M)
A team CAN exceed the Salary Cap, using exceptions.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Dec 3, 2008 12:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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