Only 10 more shopping days until Festivus
There was a lot of finger pointing in tonight's game thread over who should take the blame for tonight's game. Some are blaming Ed Tapscott's rotations, others are blaming the veterans that don't seem to be playing with the effort that they're demanding out of the youngsters, and some are blaming the jellyfish outbreak.
Whatever you want to put the blame on, I get the feeling that a lot of you want to air some grievances, so have at it. Just remember to be civil with each other because at 4-17, all we have is each other.
(Oh, and for those of you wondering, feats of strength will be held a week from Tuesday. Work on your grappling skills.)
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Ed Tapscott
Whenever I used to hear his name in the media I thought “Mystery NBA Executive” boy his name pops up every now and then so he must be doing something right
I wish he remained a mystery. Seeing him on the bench is not nearly as impressive.
by ucantstopbernard on Dec 13, 2008 11:38 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I've got a lot of problems with you people.
The veterans are basically getting a free ride this year. They got one from EJ, who kept playing them even though they were terrible (I see you, Etan), they’re getting one from Tapscott, who’s playing them even though they’re terrible (keep shooting, DeShawn), and they’re getting one from the media, who just writes up their quotes bashing the young players and think that’s the entire story.
Are Blatche and Young occasionally lackadaisical? Sure. But they’re lackadaisically outplaying guys like Stevenson, and yes, even occasionally Butler. It’s an easy way out to keep blaming them because everyone see that and thinks it sounds reasonable. Of course the young guys aren’t playing as hard, that’s what young guys do. Especially young guys who’ve already been portrayed as space cadets. Meanwhile the Hornets get praised for adding AD’s defense even though he can barely keep up with anyone. Meanwhile everyone covering the team seems to agree that the Wizards will start winning when Stevenson starts hitting his shots, he just needs to keep shooting, even though his defense is worse than AD’s. Meanwhile the Wizards keep getting killed on the boards and Songaila (their worst rebounding big) keeps getting major minutes at the 5, but no, there’s no relation between those two points, why do you ask? Meanwhile Butler gets to call anyone out he wants while letting his man stroll through the lane for an open layup.
Now George, get over here and pin your father.
I mean honestly
this is from Ivan Carter’s writeup of the game:
One bright spot in an otherwise dreary night was that guard DeShawn Stevenson, mired in a season-long shooting and scoring slump, got rolling for a stretch of the second half by reeling off 12 of his 16 points.
16 points on 12 shots while committing 4 turnovers is suddenly a bright spot? No mention of McGuire’s 5 rebounds in 12 minutes or Andray Blatche filling the stat sheet with 6 rebounds, 3 assists, a steal and a block (and yes, admittedly 7 points on 6 shots and 2 turnovers)? DeShawn Stevenson barely reaching competency (while letting Lou Williams score from all over) is suddenly a bright spot?
Everytime I saw Lou score
It was when Juan was guarding him – Dixon has been pretty terrible.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Dec 14, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
if
you think anyone here is crazy about the vets and really down on the young guys, then you obviously havent been around here long enough
I'm not talking about on this site.
I’m talking about those who coach and cover the team.
The coaches say “our young guys aren’t giving us enough” while playing Stevenson 38 excruciating minutes.
The reporters and broadcasters say “they need to get DeShawn going” and “a lot of veterans are unhappy with what they see as a lack of effort” while Songaila efforts his way to one rebound in 25 minutes.
And to be fair to Stevenson in my post above, I’m not totally sure who he was guarding for most of the game.
Maybe it was Andre Miller, who scored 8 points on 4 shots and racked up 12 assists, a steal and only 2 turnovers while playing 38 minutes. Or it could’ve been Willie Green, who, yes, shot 1-5 from three but made 4 of his 5 shots from inside the line.
But he certainly was a “bright spot,” wasn’t he?
Dude
Airing of grievances. Airing of general grievances.
Jon L’s been here for a long time. He knows how people think here.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
The "I got a lot of problems with you people"
Is in reference to the Seinfeld episode. That must have thrown you off.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
see I disagree
I have been here a while and I don’t appreciate NY dribbling the ball off his foot three times a game. Nor have I appreciated AB’s slow transformation into Mr. Kwame Brown.
I think that we have alway tended to overvalue our youngsters and think that they are better than they really are, maybe its time to take a hard look at our drafting philosophy and admit that that we have f’ed up.
I love the Wizards I really do, and I enjoy playing the “no respect” card when Hollinger, Barkley and other professionals call us a lousy team. But a some point, maybe we need to wake up and meet them halfway. This team, as it stands, is not well constructed. A lot of that has to do with our superstar and center being hurt, and a lot has to do with lack of depth.
But I can’t help but look at a team like orlando and see a convincing plan for building a team and wondering why that same premise can’t be applied to the wizards. They drafted a stud center, and then grossly overpaid for a one shooter and added another (Hedo) to make the most of his skills.
Now with Gil out, I get the sick feeling that Ernie is just going to keep throwing stuff against the wall to see if it sticks until he comes back. Play the kids, keep the veterans happy, it changes every day and aggravates me to no end.
The AD trade ticked me off in particular because while it was a good trade from our perspective of “picking up future pieces,” it does nothing for me in terms of building a team. Did we really need to hybrid guards to replace one true PG? Is that really a positive move towards the future?
However, with the team being in dire straights, there is no solution except to play the kids.
I would be interested in what Truth, Cup, Rook, and DarrellWalkerFan have to say about this. They will probably fall on the opposite side of the fence.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
I see your point.
I admit that I have a tendency to project greater things onto young players that their performance may or may not warrant. However, Ivan’s article also contains this quote from Tapscott about Nick Young:
My other guards were playing well. And when you get your shot comes to get in there and you don’t have your swerve going, you open the door for someone else to get their swerve going.
The problem as I see it, though, is that the guards weren’t always playing well. Stevenson played the entire first quarter, missed his only shot and turned the ball over twice, and racked up a -5. During his almost 5 minutes of play in the second quarter, he again missed his only shot, turned the ball over once and picked up two fouls, and earned a -4. Dixon played almost 8 minutes in the third quarter and was terrible, missing both of his shots, fouling three times and getting a -7.
I will admit that Dixon played well in the first half, and Stevenson’s offense improved in the second half. My point is, though, that they got a second chance. Dixon played 5 more minutes in the 4th quarter, missing his only shot and fouling out of the game. Stevenson played heavy minutes in the second half (which again, to his credit, he took advantage of) despite being awful in the first.
The young guys aren’t getting those second chances. Tapscott isn’t sitting the veterans when they “don’t have their swerve going,” he’s leaving them out there. Nick Young should’ve been on the court when it was clear Dixon wasn’t performing in the second half. Sure McGee picked up two fouls in the first four minutes of the game, but he also had as many rebounds as Songaila did, in about as third as many minutes.
My beef isn’t that the young guys are superstars who are being held down. It’s that they’re not getting the chances to work through their struggles the way the veterans are. Which, when you’re down by 18 with 3 minutes to play, borders on the inexcusable.
by Jon L on Dec 14, 2008 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think that is well said...
I just think (for the moment) this is a badly put together team.
Young should be playing when we are down by 18 with 3 minutes left. So should McGuire and Blatche. One might even give Pech a little bit of burn.
The problem (and this is completely how I see it), is that there was an attempt to create a roster that resembled the Suns, Mavs of two years ago, and the organization as a whole has gotten caught with its pants down, as the league seems to be moving away from free wheeling score fast teams, to those dominated by a great center or possess a significant half court game.
I think the drafting of Blatche and Pech represented EG’s attempt to get a Nowitzki or Amare on the cheap. Young athletic guys, who can spot up and shoot, and can keep up with the Wizard’s Big three of AJ, CB, and GA. However, neither player has matured to the degree to allow these plans to come to fruition.
I have a greater problem with the resigning of DeShawn, and the drafting of NY. We signed DeShawn in order to preserve “continuity,” and I think that plan has backfired. Worse, while I think that NY has a high ceiling (though I despise his fadeaway jumper), his lack of handle and defensive miscues drive me crazy on a team that leaks lie a sieve without Haywood
If I had festivus wishlist I would like a PG with handle, a Spencer Hawes like center to eat boards and babysit JaVale, and GA to get a new pair of knees.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
Stevenson Contract
I have a tough time questioning his contract because he was playing well, Grunfeld low-balled him because he didn’t think the market was there (the reasons for which I’m sure we can debate) and DeShawn came back to Grunfeld after being unable to get anything else.
So, for how the guy was playing (and continued to play last year), it appeared for some time that it was a very good move to retain Stevenson on the cheap.
There seems to be too much hindsight involved when questioning his contract now.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It Dot Net
by Kyle Weidie on Dec 15, 2008 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
I don't understand why it needs to be an either/or situation
One can criticize Ernie and his team-building philosophy while simultaneously bash the coaching staff for not playing the youngsters that are outperforming the veterans. Perhaps the young guys aren’t all that, but they are currently performing better than many of the veterans in front of them. I don’t think that’s really disputable.
I know the latter has received more press than the former, but the former can still apply.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I don't think its either or
I just think that the situation we are in is because of some poor personnel decisions.
I think NY would be a nice piece on another team, I am just unconvinced that he is the right pieve for this team….
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
I'm not sure where I fall....
Play the kids? Sure….who cares?
But, I think Tapscott is making coaching decisions/moves/whatever based on how he “thinks” the team can get wins, regardless of the record…..and I think that most coaches would do the same in relying on veterans, hoping they come out of their slump, and wishing the rookies to hang out for the ride.
I’m hesitant to blame Tapscott for such decision making……but yes, things are obviously not working on so many levels.
Is the answer to just play to youth? Well, I’m not so sure…..because I feel that some (mainly Blatche and Young, but especially Blatche) aren’t working hard, and just giving them more minutes without them earning them wouldn’t be just……even given the assumption that since they sometimes “appear” to play better than the vets (not naming names of others, but I will ALWAYS (ok, maybe not always) defended the presence of Darius Songaila on the court, crappy rebound rate and all, because he clearly works his ass off……if only what he has in that regard was contagious.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It Dot Net
Hasn't he earned it?
I don’t dispute that Blatche needs to improve his work ethic off the court, but so far his play this season has certainly warranted more playing time than someone like Songaila or even McGee.
ledell, i agree and disagree
i completely agree that people on this board overvalue the young guys right now. i share that opinion. if tapscott played the young guys as much as people are clamoring for them, i think the posters here would get just as disillusioned with them as they are with the vets right now.
i don’t, however, agree that EG realistically could have done significantly better. EG’s made a lot of home run moves in AJ, GA, and CB, and letting a lot of guys leave and get overpaid elsewhere. he’s made two bad signings, but oh well. he’s swung for the fences with all of his draft picks (none of them lottery picks). the only problem is that none of them have panned out (yet). but i have no problem with the strategy he took as there are several advantages to it. (that i won’t go into.)
i don’t think what is happening to the team this year is that bad in the long run. i think something good might come out of it. if they have to get their asses handed to them for half a season, so be it.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 16, 2008 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
Now Jon....
We all know that since AD is gone, D-Song is going to be completely ineffective.
They were like PB&J, the ultimate two man game. They had brunch together!
And now…no more.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
And you know what they had for brunch every day?
Elk meat. Lots of elk meat.
You can bet Mrs. Songaila isn’t happy with all the elk meat she can’t get rid of now.
Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.
by Jake Whitacre on Dec 14, 2008 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
see I thought
Steinberg reported that he shot a unicorn.
which gave D-Song his magical basketball powers….
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
I'm pretty sure the Lithuanian tooth fairy gave him his magical basketball powers
He just shoots unicorns because he can.
Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.
by Jake Whitacre on Dec 14, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
season over? Time to play the vets
Nick Young, the only guard who’s playing half decent, gets four minutes. Pecherov can’t find his way to the arena, apparently. McGee gets two fouls and is never seen from again. Crittenton doesn’t make it into the game either. That’s four first round picks getting a total of ten minutes. What is management waiting for? THE TEAM IS 4-17. It’s over. Play the kids.
Wow
Nick Young, the only guard who’s playing half decent, gets four minutes.
You know, I have a grievance to air against billyjoe for suggesting that Nick Young be cut.
(kidding, slightly).
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Thank, uh, God for Festivus ...
Now where did I put that pole?
Hmmm, perhaps it is in the back of the downstairs closet, stuffed behind the Wizards’ youth movement.
I suppose I cannot complain too much about the guards since we got more than 45 points out of the three who played most last night (Dixon, James and Stevenson… it sounds like a personal injury law firm that advertises on cable, not an NBA contender’s backcourt)… Too bad a certain pair of All-Star forwards couldn’t contribute at their expected level, because, gee, then we might have actually won that fiasco.
Is grunfeld worried about his job
That’s the only explanation for the playing rotations. If Tapscott is just doing what Ernie wants, Ernie must be worried that he’ll be following EJ out the door. Pollin may be senile, but he can’t miss the fact that Arenas is getting paid $18 million while the season goes down the drain. I have trouble believing this is part of some grand plan.
ny1
I can’t imagine that Taps and Grunfeld are blind to Stevenson’s atrocious play, so one has to think that both McGee and Young have done /something/ to raise the ire of the coaches. When the team is this godawful, you have to attribute some sort of rationality to what appears for all intents and purposes to be a completely willfully blind decision. This is the worst basketball I’ve seen since Lorenzo Williams was stealing from Abe…
I hope this is a joke
According to Ivan Carter in his latest blog, “Wes Unseld Jr. might be in the process of being groomed as the next coach of the Wiz kids.”
I hope that’s not serious.
Pollin loves the Unselds
Therefore, EG will appease the old man by hiring another Unseld. Pollin has always had at least one black in either position, and now he’s not getting it. I don’t think Tapscott counts.
indeed -
care to clarify that a bit more billyjoe?
by little stevie colter on Dec 14, 2008 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Pollin is a pillar of the community
And he doesn’t want the Wizards fronted by a bunch of whites in a black city. I emailed Mike Wise once after a series on the Wiz and Unself, and why he was never fired, and told Wise that Unseld got a free pass because Pollin has white liberal guilt. Wise wrote back (in confidence, I suppose, which is no violated) and said: “That’s true, but I can’t write that in the newspaper.” So I’m not the only one who’s noticed that either the GM (Unseld, Jordan) or the coach (Bickerstaff, Unseld, Walker, Heard, Jordan, etc.) has been black for the last twenty years.
seriously?
The team has a number of issues, well documented and discussed here, but naming one of the organization’s shortcomings as always having had “at least one black” in a managerial position seems kind of off the grid.
If you're suggesting this is a fault with Abe
Then I’m banning you on the spot. That’s really inappropriate.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
If you're suggesting Abe is progressive in giving African Americans jobs
Then yeah, that’s well-documented and, frankly, to be commended. Why call it “white liberal guilt” though? That’s pretty insulting, unless I’m misunderstanding the term.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Abe Pollin has always been a progressive guy and...
I am keeping my fingers crossed that one way or another he will go out a winner. But I don’t think he plays the race card either way… His main issues have always been character and loyalty. He makes no bones about saying that Wes Unseld and Antawn Jamison are “character guys” and I suspect he feels the same way about Ernie Grunfeld. He was accused of using Michael Jordan but he undoubtedly felt that MJ was using him badly, as well.
I don’t think Ernie is done dealing with the current roster either. He really has assembled some interesting young talent and it may be that one or two of them will be packaged with older players to fetch some real mid-level help. ET, AB, MJames and a draft pick (lottery protected) for Larry Hughes and Tyrus Thomas would be an interesting deal IMO
At my age and after 40 years of cheering for this team, I am not going to lose faith. But as is the case with the economy, this is the worst downturn I have ever experienced. The Bullets were a fine team in the 70s and they sort of dwindled down slowly in the 80s, so the collapse was not as abrupt, obvious or painful as the current one.
I hope, needless to say, that the money spent on Gilbert Arenas proves to be money well spent because otherwise this team will be in deep trouble for several years to come.
Abe's white guilt
must also extend to Asians, Latinos, Jews, women,…oh and whites. Because those are some of the other groups he’s gone out of his way to assist over the years. While we’re at it let’s not forget the poor, the schools, and the taxpayer…
Or maybe he’s just an amazingly progressive, generous, large hearted member of the community.
Joking aside, his generosity goes back to his father, who was an amazingly giving person who was a very successful builder and help lift up a lot of people along with him in his career.
by MR on Dec 14, 2008 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
I don't really see
what this has to do with why the team is under performing.
It also sounds a bit like slander, which I don’t think has a place on this site.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
Yeah, you know
I agree with ledell. You’re gone dude. Completely out of line.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Not sure I agree with the ban:
First, I recognize the people who run this website have a right (perhaps even a duty?) to ban particular commentators; this isn’t a government site for which we might expect fully free speech to be allowed, even when ugly. Second, I also recognize that our community is enhanced by screening the few individuals whose comments have little substantive value and tend to incite us, or stir-the-pot. (“Flaming,” “trolling,” etc.)
However, I think it’s desirable to have a lax policy on banning people, even when the speech is off-center or tends to be undesirable. There are a couple reasons to be more lenient. First, this is a website that encourages people to voice unpopular opinions. Yet, commentators who throw out minority or unpopular opinions will likely be the first ones to be banned. While I strongly suggest that we don’t want the site to be a platform for people to consistently voice ugly or racist views, I’m not sure that borderline suggestions warrant a ban (at least not without giving the speaker a chance to clarify).
Second, minority opinions bring value. Sure, we don’t all agree with each other. But the beauty of this site is that it brings together differing minds, and lets us work out our differences with rational, thoughtful discourse. Sometimes we even learn things or change our biases or preconceived ideas. (Imagine!) And when we are confronted with ideas that we know are wrong, we are forced to examine WHY we think they are wrong, and to explain what the better view is.
Finally, most wrong or ridiculous opinions are better handled through a community effort, than through a ban. When someone is clearly out of line, the community is going to react by imposing their norms on the extreme individual—that is, “shout him down” (using rational arguments of course). A ban cuts off the discourse—censorship, plain and simple—and indicates there is absolutely no value to be gained from either the post or the posting individual.
So. I know this is a basketball blog and not a town hall meeting. I understand that overtly racist or particularly ugly remarks, especially those directed at individuals, have no place on this site. I understand that the anonymity of the internet sometimes leads to extreme behavior that should be censored for the better of the group. However, I think we should error towards inclusion of speech, and allow the community to self-correct or admonish when necessary.
Just wanted to express my two cents as to bans generally.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Dec 15, 2008 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hear ya
I’m usually pretty lax. I’ve only banned four people now from this site in two years. Wballa was one, and that was pretty obvious. The other two happened pre 2.0. The first was a Pistons troll that kept bashing the team. The second ended up being my friend playing a prank on me.
With all due respect, though, billyjoe’s banning is not negotiable. Billyjoe expressed racist views. They weren’t overtly racist, they were racist. Billyjoe suggested that Abe has a “white liberal bias” and implied that meant the team will never improve. Racist speech is never tolerated on these sites under ANY circumstances. This is spelled out very clearly in the site rules.
There is a humongous difference between relentlessly baiting us on Nick Young’s ability and expressing racist views. The latter will never, ever, ever be allowed on this site.
Besides, as to the town hall thing, you all did shoot him down. That’s one reason I changed my mind on banning him.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Fine with me
I just wanted to write “Icanseeyourpoint”
by MR on Dec 15, 2008 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
To clarify
I don’t think it was wrong to ban Billyjoe for what he said – though I would have a problem with it if he was simply asserting that Abe has a bias towards hiring a certain race. That assertion by itself isn’t necessarily racist (though perhaps also not suited for this particular community). What is problematic is insinuating that the team would be better off if “blacks” were never hired and “whites” ran the joint.
I appreciate that you waited until several other people expressed how outrageous the comment was to ban him.
Besides, this is an “air all grievance” thread so I wanted to throw my diatribe on “free speech” on the Internets out there, albeit off topic a bit. I hope no one takes it as defending the actual content of what was said.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Dec 15, 2008 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
icfmf, i respect what you said a lot.
also, i was on the fence too, but then i analyzed it, and what billyjoe said was pretty overtly racist. the ban is justified. the bit about tapscott might be the worst part.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 16, 2008 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
it seems your implication is
that a white coach/gm would inherently be better, if only abe would stop his reverse racism and hire one.
i can’t begin to explain the ways in which that bothers me.
by little stevie colter on Dec 14, 2008 2:15 PM EST up reply actions

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