"The makeup of the locker room, the environment of the locker room needs to change. I'm not saying that it's almost like acceptable, but guys are not upset. Guys are not hurting. This is your job. It's all about representing what's on your chest and doing it the right way. When you don't do your job and don't represent the right way, it should hurt."
about 1 year ago
JakeTheSnake
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Maybe just what this team needs
Jamison getting pissed will have more of a positive impact on this team than anything EJ does. Maybe Jamison can get Bulletproof to show up for a game at least twice a week instead of once a month and maybe he can go in and tell EJ that starting McGee makes a lot more sense at this time than playing ‘Hands of Stone’ Thomas.
by LoneWiz54 on Nov 9, 2008 11:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jamison has been on Blatche....especially in the papers.
Hasn’t produced any results so far.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It Dot Net
by Truth About It on Nov 10, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is going to come off as a lot more bitter than it should
But frankly, I’m tired of Jamison talking the talk and not walking the walk. You know why the environment of the locker room sucks? Because we’ve lost to New Jersey, New York and Milwaukee. You know why we’ve lost to those teams? A lot of it is because you don’t play defense, jack terrible shots on offense and don’t post up enough. You have really hurt us this year, and while you’re certainly far from the only person who deserves blame (and far from the biggest reason), you’re still a reason. Look in the mirror and set the example by playing the right way, not by whining about the locker room atmosphere.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Nov 9, 2008 11:53 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Amen
Exactly what I was thinking.
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by JakeTheSnake on Nov 10, 2008 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm Not Sure We're Reading His Comments Correctly
You know why the environment of the locker room sucks? Because we’ve lost to New Jersey, New York and Milwaukee.
But the environment in the locker room, based on Jamison’s comments, doesn’t suck. Guys aren’t backbiting. They’re not getting mad at each other. They may not be upbeat, but they’re not upset either. Jamison thinks that everybody should be getting pissed off, and he’s pissed off that they’re not.
We can pick at Jamison’s defense all we want, but he isn’t playing much worse than he always has. It’s the team defense and the schemes that suck. Jamison isn’t the only guy giving up lots of open shots, and I refuse to believe that every player on the Wizards is a terrible individual defender. They all look bad as individuals because the overall defense being taught is flawed and ineffective.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Nov 10, 2008 8:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where's the confusion
Jamison said the locker room environment needs to change. Ergo, I say Jamison says it sucks. Seems like a pretty reasonable inference.
And I disagree that Jamison isn’t playing any worse than he always has. His true shooting percentage is an abysmal 48.8%. His rebound percentage has dropped considerably as well, and that part of his game was what made him extremely valuable. And talk all you want about poor defensive schemes, but he is causing the initial breakdown way more than he did last year.
I understand his frustration, but this just comes off like whining. He’s asking his team for more desperation, yet it seems he hasn’t played the same way. I realize it’s hard to measure effort, but you can measure performance, and he just hasn’t brought it like he did last year.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Nov 10, 2008 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
His Numbers Are Down
But I think this has more to do with not having Brendan than him doing anything really different. Jamison has always taken outside shots when teams played off of him, and without Brendan, teams are playing off of him all of the time. Brendan, as you have pointed out in the past, covered a lot of mistakes, especially on the defensive end.
I think that Brendan simply made Eddie’s/Ayers’s defense look better than it actually was. Without Brendan there to divert rebounds to AJ and alter the shots of AJ’s man once he drove by, AJ looks like a bad defender. But everybody is looking like a bad defender in this defense, even DeShawn. If it were just one person, then we could blame that person. But when the whole team is playing bad defense, there is really only one person to place the blame on.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Nov 10, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you did confuse meanings with the term "suck"
Jamison’s frustration is that the locker room mentality is complacent. You can say that that “sucks,” sure. The team’s complacent mentality, however, is not a result of their losses to the Nets, Bucks and Knicks. The complacent attitude might be a cause of the losses, but you said the environment “sucks” because of the losses. This isn’t true, at least not in the way that Jamison had in mind. When you say that the mood in the locker room “sucks” because of losses, you are speaking of a different problem than Jamison.
Jamison’s play obviously needs to improve, but his play on the court is not reflective of his locker room attitude. Jamison’s comments are not asking for more desperation, or effort, on the court. He is questioning the team’s attitude regarding losses.
I don’t know why you think this is “whining.” Whining might be annoyingly complaining about things out of your control: like injuries, or the schedule, or calls made by refs. Jamison is saying the attitude of his teammates needs to change. This is what a team leader needs to do. A leader needs to know what the attitude of team is, know what it should be, and try to change it.
The difference between Jamison’s comments and Caron’s is that Caron’s comments are completely self-centered and Jamison’s are team-centered. I’m not calling Caron selfish, he’s concerned with his own improvement in these comments, which is certainly not a vice. They’re complimentary leadership styles.
I am much relieved to hear Jamison voice his frustration.
by Aldo on Nov 10, 2008 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair points
I was trying to say that Jamison finds something wrong with the locker room atmosphere, and there is clearly something “sucky” about a locker room when he is complaining about it. But you are correct, I should have used a more specific term.
Similarly, “whining” was probably not the best word choice. You are correct there. The point is that Jamison is calling out his teammates for the very same transgressions he’s committing himself. This may come across as overly harsh, but if he was truly hurting, he would do more to not lose his man on defense. But yes, it is good that he is not complacent about the team’s situation.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Nov 10, 2008 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You are still not getting it
Jamison is not saying that he is the only one that is playing well and that he wishes that everybody else would play well too. Instead, from these comments, Jamison is saying that he realizes that he and the rest of the team are not playing well at all this season as a whole and that he is not happy about it. He’s saying that in the locker room nobody is showing the attitude that they want to start going out there and turn it around. He is saying that most of the team is not acting like they are upset about being 0-5.
The whole point is that Jamison feels that he and Caron are alone in the “sense of urgency” dept.
I feel that AJ knows hes not playing well to this point and that he wants to go out there Wednesday and play his heart out. He is just worried that nobody else will. So dont try to bring numbers in the conversation to try to make Jamison look worse. Just realize that Antawn is passionate about winning with this team from now on and that he wants his teamates to feel that way also.
by lj15 on Nov 10, 2008 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So what?
So he’s mad. Okay. He can talk all he wants, but I still think he needs to set the example. It’s all a bunch of hot air otherwise. Last year, he set the example by upping his defense, devoting himself to rebounding and playing more inside than outside. His words meant something then. Now, they don’t mean as much because he also isn’t producing to his full potential, IMO.
I shouldn’t have implied that Jamison should have said nothing. That was not smart. I do question whether this will make much of a difference. If Jamison were to spout off about something about the team’s on-court play (e.g. “we’re playing awful defense and we really need to step it up,” or “we need to stop complaining about the officials,” or “we have to stop shooting the first shot we see”), his words would hit directly at the problems that the Wizards are facing. He’s a culprit, but he can admit that he shares blame while still imploring his teammates to step up.
That’s probably why I liked Caron’s response (but I didn’t articulate it like I should have). It was more specific while still making a similar point. He’s saying that “yes, I can do more, I can play differently, but we need to work to get the results.” It places him on the same level as the rest of the team while still telling everyone they need to step up, all while discussing on-court play instead of something as nebulous as effort.
The way I see it, the locker room atmosphere is a trivial thing to criticize when the team is doing so many things poorly on the court. If the on-court problems are fixed, the locker room atmosphere will improve. One can say, as Jamison seems to imply, that the lack of urgency he sees is the cause of the Wizards’ poor play. That’s possible, but it’s a tough thing for me to jump on board with. I don’t see a team that’s not trying, I see a team that isn’t executing. The two are nowhere near the same.
Still, I was probably being too harsh on the dude. Any expression of discontent is good for an 0-5 team.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Nov 10, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ultimately, it comes down to this
I don’t care about how passionate everyone is. I care about how well they play. I don’t see a good connection between the two.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Nov 10, 2008 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
By "good," I mean "linear"
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Nov 10, 2008 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel
That Jamison is trying to say that he knows they have not played well and that his teamates are walking around acting like they don’t care and he wants them to. Thats what he meant by the locker room atmosphere. Thats the part I still think you are misunderstanding. He is not criticizing that players are not getting along well in the locker room because they are losing. He is criticizing that the players are not upset that they are losing and he feels that they might not show up on the court because of that.
by lj15 on Nov 10, 2008 7:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not misunderstanding it
I don’t buy it.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Nov 10, 2008 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We will see
on Wednesday if Jamison can get the rest of the Wizards the message and apply it to himself also.
by lj15 on Nov 10, 2008 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy it
In the sense that things will fall apart due to a lack of effort. They have, and in the future, will, continue to fall apart because of a lack of execution.
They’re trying, but they’re small, slow, defensively dumb and forced to deal with a dumb defensive scheme. All the effort in the world won’t do anything there.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Nov 10, 2008 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Be careful.
Jamison never mentions effort. Never mentions heart, moxie, guts, or chutzpah. Never even mentions execution. Jamison is pissed about one thing in this quote: the team’s attitude about losing.
What’s the relationship between caring about losing, effort, and winning? This gets complicated I guess, and reasonable minds might differ. But it’s important to distinguish what’s actually being said; it’s more than just semantics. I can imagine a player who gives a lot of effort, but doesn’t hate to lose. I can’t imagine a group of players who win consistently without them hating to lose. I can’t imagine a player who hates to lose, but doesn’t give consistent effort. So I guess that hating to lose is broader than effort, and necessary for consistent winning.
This has gotten rather ethereal, and misses a simpler point. It’s Jamison’s job as a team leader to publicly question the complacency of losing. It’s Eddie Jordan’s, Mike O’Koren’s, and Dave Hopla’s job to be questioning execution. I can’t imagine any public statement by Jamison that could instantly transform the team’s poor 3 point defense, or poor free throwing shooting. But this statement absolutely could transform the team’s attitude regarding losing, just by him calling it out. And that’s a good thing.
This team might be small, slow, and dumb defensively. Jamison can’t help that. But it is his responsibility as a team leader to take control of the locker room attitude of the team. That’s why I am so glad he said what he said.
by Aldo on Nov 10, 2008 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, fair enough
I went a little overboard on this relatively simple comment, as you mentioned. I’ll let your post be the last word and move on.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Nov 10, 2008 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
“When you don’t do your job and don’t represent the right way, it should hurt.”
young, dixon, and mcgee are all doing better than expected. songaila is doing about as well as could be expected. i don’t think those guys need to hang their heads too much. they seem like they’re doing their jobs.
daniels is hurt and he doesn’t seem particularly happy. stevenson, thomas, and blatche are playing poorly, so maybe it’s directed at them. but thomas is returning from a year off and isn’t getting a ton of minutes, and blatche – well, what do you expect…
the guy playing the worst might be jamison, so maybe it makes sense if other people aren’t as upset as he is.
and i agree with prada, it doesn’t help one bit to call out your teammates when you aren’t playing well yourself on the court. put another way, when you’re a big part of the problem and you don’t call out yourself, just your teammates, to me, that doesn’t show a lot of leadership.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Nov 11, 2008 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes sir!
I couldn’t agree with you more. I posted that sentiment on another forum and got some flaming responses. He is part of the problem.
by nicefellow31 on Nov 11, 2008 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is why I love Caron
When faced with a similar query, here was his response.
“I’m willing to do whatever it takes, whether it’s go get 20, 30 rebounds, whether it’s put up the points or be a playmaker for the most part,” Butler said. “But my blood pressure’s building, and it’s only so much longer I can wait. You don’t want to take too much on yourself, but at the same time, you want the results.”
Perfect response. He says what he could do better before he spouts off about the rest of the team.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Nov 10, 2008 12:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Re-read Jamison's comments
I think you really misunderstood them.
by lj15 on Nov 10, 2008 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I understanding voicing his frustration
but a whole lot of recrimination and backbiting isn’t good for the team. Isn’t that the fans job anyway?
"Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck
by George Templeton on Nov 10, 2008 1:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Re-Read Jamison's Comments
There is no recrimination and backbiting. Jamison’s comments are the only evidence of locker room discord.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Nov 10, 2008 8:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jamison
IMO, Jamison is having his worst year as a Wizard. He doesn’t even care on defense anymore — previously, he may have been limited by his size, but I could see him trying. I don’t see that this year. He’s killing us with his crappy shooting and matador D. I agree fully with Pradamaster about the difference between Caron’s and Antawn’s attitudes, and it’s why Caron is the team’s MVP.
by YellaFella on Nov 10, 2008 9:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I Disagree
Jamison is not the problem. He’s just the first one to speak up, probably because he is aging and he sees his window closing, but his teammates are not taking it that seriously yet.
My guess is that Gilbert and Brendan will both come back this season and their combined talents will mostly mask the fundamental problems on the Wizards defense. The Wizards will make a big run after the All-Star break, and will somehow squeak into the playoffs. Then the playoffs will come, Eddie’s defensive strategy will be exposed again, and the Wizards will lose in the first round again. Then everyone here will say it was because we were such a low seed playing such a high seed, and that Eddie has done a fantastic job of keeping the team together through the injuries, and nobody will point out that we could have won if only we had a coach that could teach defense.
Then our front office, encouraged by the turnaround of our team after Gilbert and Brendan came back, will make only minor moves in free agency. Come this time next year, we’ll be complaining about another slow start from Eddie Jordan, and there will probably be at least one injury that we can point to that will excuse Eddie. Rinse, cycle, repeat.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
by cuppettcj on Nov 10, 2008 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, no, Jamison's not the problem per se
I just don’t think these comments are going to do anything. I don’t see how they illustrate his skills as al eader.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Nov 10, 2008 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
AND WE WILL SAY THIS LINE THAT HAVE BEEN SAID HUNDRED TIMES, ’WHEN THIS TEAM IS HEALTHY, WE CAN BEAT ANYBODY" LOL..SAME OLD WIZ
by ak47 on Nov 10, 2008 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
No more all caps.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Nov 10, 2008 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they need to rearrange the locker room...
So that the veterans sit next to the rookies.
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It Dot Net
by Truth About It on Nov 10, 2008 11:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
You may be being sarcastic...
but i buy this story. Gil talks a lot about how Jamison mentored him and taught him to be a professional as a young player. My guess is this is a part of that professionalism, actually caring if you’re doing your job well or not. And beyond that, caring whether that shows up in the final product, whether it’s your fault or not.
by five by five on Nov 11, 2008 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How about
Sit Jamison next to Young… perhaps Jamison will take some tips from Nick on how to play better defense.
Sit Daniels next to Dixon – Perhaps Juan can help Antonio with cutting down on his TO’s
Sit Butler next to Dave Hoopla – Anything to get Caron hitting his Free Throws again.
Sit Thomas next to Haywood – perhaps they’ll get into a fight and suspend Thomas. Then Eddie would be forced to play Javale McGee more.
by Rook6980 on Nov 11, 2008 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who is sitting next to whom now?
The Post did a cute graphic on this last year, perhaps they could do an update and allow the reader to move the furniture around, so to speak…
And what is all this talk about a trade with the Clippers on the Post site? as in Jamison and Opech or some such for Kamen and Thornton? No way are the Clips parting with those guys at this point, especially they looked fairly good against Dallas… Thornton in particular is probably untouchable.
Eddie, let’s play the guys who are contributing, please. If we can be around 13-17 or 16-20 when Gilbert returns, and JaVale and NY are maturing rapidly in the process, then we should be able to get into the playoffs and possibly make some noise…. Arenas, Young, McGee, Jamison and Butler is a nice thought.
The season, as CB3 noted, is still in its infancy.
by khrabb on Nov 11, 2008 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Could you post the link -
to the trade rumor on the post site. I just tried to find it and couldn’t. I’m very curious about this but I agree – I would be shocked if they parted with Thornton.
by ooba on Nov 11, 2008 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a rumor
It’s just a bunch of bozos in the Wizards Insider comments section.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Nov 11, 2008 7:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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