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Around SBN: Raiders' GM Begins The Purge

I had the pleasure of sitting next to ESPN Page 2 columnist LZ Granderson during the game...He said this was his second time seeing the Wizards, and his first time seeing the Hawks play. I asked him what he thought of the Wizards and he said, "They are terrible, and they need to blow this team up." He also said that this team would not improve much when Gilbert Arenas comes back. Ouch

Hoops Addict

Mobley has some interesting notes from the Atlanta-Wiz game, some of which are worth reading.

Granderson thinks we should blow the team up... Thoughts? ;)

about 3 years ago Byu_logo_500x500_tiny se7en 49 comments 0 recs  | 

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I found this interesting
I asked Granderson if he was on assignment, and he said not really. Apparently ESPN sends him to numerous games, but he only has to write if the spirit moves him.

I want that gig!

Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.

by Jake Whitacre on Nov 30, 2008 9:02 PM EST reply actions  

Not there yet-

Well maybe we won’t be much better when Gilbert comes back but what about Haywood and Gilbert both back. I would like to see those two mesh with the current team and youngsters before blowing the team up.

by ooba on Nov 30, 2008 10:25 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah

Plus – even if the Wizards don’t make the Playoffs this year – they’ll have a Lotter pick in the Draft, and some nice expiring contracts (Daniels & Thomas) to trade for another piece (a potentially BIG piece) -

Arenas back. Haywood Back. Two All-Star Forwards in Butler and Jamison. McGee with a full year of experience. An improved bench with Blatche, Young and McGuire. WITH a Lottery Draft pick and whatever player Grunfeld can add by trading the expiring contracts.

Let’s see what the naysayers have to say then.

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Nov 30, 2008 10:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I like your optimism. I’ll feed off you – these last two games have crushed my spirit.

by se7en on Dec 1, 2008 1:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Never heard of the guy

So I went into his archives and found, more or less at random, this:

Isiah Thomas is a bit sneaky.

Isiah Thomas is a bit belligerent.

Isiah Thomas is a bit mathematically challenged.

But if I was rebuilding an NBA team, Isiah Thomas would be the first person I’d call.

Why? Renaldo Balkman.

(That’s just the opening. Maybe this dude’s a genius, but i doesn’t take a lot of guts to say the Wizards suck right now. Barring major health issues, I bet they’ll be a solid playoff team next year.)

by Stanicek on Nov 30, 2008 11:20 PM EST reply actions  

LZ's a good writer

But he even admitted he’s only seen this team twice, so I wouldn’t treat this as being particularly revolutionary.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Nov 30, 2008 11:28 PM EST reply actions  

I'll retract my statement

of having this team blown up, but I think a tank job is eminent and necessary if we want to be compete next year.

by Fundefined on Dec 1, 2008 12:08 AM EST reply actions  

I know it’s a popular thing around the national media to say how bad the Wizards are. And even the return of Arenas and Haywood, their best player and best center, won’t be enough to make them a great team, according to the “experts.”

But national media types are never good with long-term perspective. I’m also not sure what the Wizards could get from “blowing-up” the team (which of course means trading away your best players). Who’s gonna trade for Arenas’s contract? Why on earth would the Wizards trade Caron Butler? A lot of teams looking for that final piece would be smart to pursue Jamison, so if the price were right (good, young talent) then maybe. But Jamison and his contract aren’t the problem. So “blowing-up” the team is extremely short-sighted.

The Wizards biggest problem is after Jamison and Butler the rest of their team isn’t very good (excluding Arenas and Haywood). They lost a key role player in Mason. Daniels isn’t providing them with a solid PG the way he has the previous couple years. Stevenson was a decent 5th starter last year, but he’s been awful this year. Either Etan needs more time to get back in the flow, or he just plain isn’t good enough (probably a little of both). On the other hand, Songalia has looked good recently.

So their veteran role players aren’t up to snuff right now. You can’t trade that problem away. Maybe to some degree next year they can, with the expiring contracts of Daniels and Thomas, but it may take 2-3 years for the Wizards to surround their best players with solid NBA role players.

I think the best thing the Wizards can do right now is develop their young guys. McGee, Blatche, Young and McGuire need to learn how to be consistent, solid NBA players. That will require a little patience. They need playing time. They will make mistakes. That’s the best way to learn. Developing these young guys is one of Tapscott’s most important jobs this season, in my opinion, and it does seem to be something he’s focusing on. There’s certainly more hope in them along with the return of Arenas and Haywood then there is in “blowing up” the Wizards.

Grunfeld fired Jordan because he didn’t believe the Wizards were a 1-10 team. He said something “wasn’t right” when he watched the team. Well on the latter point it’s true, something isn’t right with the Wizards: they aren’t good. Looking at their schedule in the next month or so I don’t see that things will get any better. They’re playing mostly against teams that are simply better than they are. This season will be brutal, but there’s no quick fix.

by Johnnie Futbol on Dec 1, 2008 9:40 AM EST reply actions  

I like your analysis

And I’d just add that National Media types, only look at a snapshot of the team… so they make a snapshot judgment…

Wizards are 2-10, and they looked lousy against XYZ team. Judgment = “bad team, blow it up.”

Whereas Beat Writers and Fans, who follow the team every game, year after year, see a slightly different picture – more like a video – with many moving snapshots that provides longer, broader and more in-depth data to work from.

Most Wizards fans would agree that Nick Young, as long as he continues to improve at the pace he’s on now, will be a very good NBA Shooting Guard. Most Wizards fans would agree that McGee will be a starting caliber Center or PF in the league – again, if he continues to progress. People who follow the team know what Haywood brings, especially Defensively, to the Wizards. And, we the fans, know what it was like when the Wizards with a healthy Arenas, Butler and Jamison were leading the Eastern Conference…. (with the worst bench in the League); so we know what those guys can do.

National types like Granderson and Charles Barkley have to say simple, direct statements, like “they’re terrible, and they need to blow this team up.” Whereas, those that follow the Wizards every day know that, because of contract situations, “blowing up the team” is not a viable option.

Health, patience and continued development of the young players will lead to better times for Wizards fans…. The League better watch out, 2 years from now….

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Dec 1, 2008 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with both Rook and Futbol

and I’d just add that most media types seem to be placing the Wizards’ record on the young players (Blatche, Young and McGee), while most are ignoring the fact that it’s really a lot of veterans (Stevenson, Thomas, Daniels, Dixon) that have sunk this team. It’s easy to pick on young players, especially when they help the process by being out of shape (Blatche) or occasionally having their head in the clouds (Young), and established NBA watchers (Wilbon, Barkley, anyone at ESPN) hate calling out veterans, but it’s true.

by Jon L on Dec 1, 2008 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

fine....but how

I don’t totally disagree with the notion that this team needs to change dramatically but I’m not really sure how they’d go about doing that with the current contracts. The three players i’m hell bent on keeping: nick young, javale mcgee, caron butler. I think these guys will be awesome for years to come. the guys that i like but everybody just needs a clean break: gilbert, jamison, blatche, etan. Etan and blatche are the most tradeable of the group but i don’t see either getting moved. especially with the retarded contract etan has along with his health. I really just don’t know what to do. It seems totally moronic to trade people we just resigned (and in some cases haven’t given us a single minute since) but i do agree that there need to be major changes. i just don’t know where.

by QualityGameDC on Dec 1, 2008 10:32 AM EST reply actions  

Why?

Why the need for drastic change? Certainly not for this year…. since I think most people would agree that this year is essentially over …and should be used to gain experience for the young players (Blatche, Young, McGee) and to evaluate the remaining talent (Pech, McGuire, Dee Brown, etc…).

Consider the following starting line-up NEXT YEAR:

PG Gilbert Arenas (even if he’s only at 80% of what he was, he’ll still be an All-Star caliber PG)
SG Nick Young (by next year, he should be ready to take over the Starter’s job)
SF Caron Butler (Perennial All-Star)
PF Antawn Jamison (2-time All-Star. Has not shown any reason to doubt he’ll continue to produce)
C Brendan Haywood

Does that starting line up match up well with the top teams in the Eastern Conference? I think it does.

Now add the Bench:
PF Andray Blatche
C JaVale McGee (perhaps a Starter in his 3rd year, but for now backing up Haywood)
SG Stevenson (Experienced Vet coming off the bench)
SF Dominic McGuire (this is my only real question mark – can he improve enough?)
PG Dee Brown (or whoever else you want…. they’ll only be playing 10 minutes a night anyway)

And then………. add a 1st round Lottery Draft pick…

AND ……… Ernie has two expiring contracts worth $14 Million to trade for another major piece… perhaps a backup PG or a SF?…. or maybe a real PF (a guy that is NOT a finesse player. a Banger) …..or a defensive stopper?…. or an upgrade at one of the other starting positions?

So, I ask again, why would you want to make a dramatic change now?

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Dec 1, 2008 10:54 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed.....

The team has the ingredients, but everything must fall into place perfectly.

I’m sure skeptical about that happening in my lifetime, and the health factor will always be a huge IF….but the possibility of potential with what’s in the cupboard is more preferable than dynamite and explosions.

Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It Dot Net

by Kyle Weidie on Dec 1, 2008 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

waiting for health

Yeah – I keep waiting for the “perfect storm” too… If it ever comes (Health, consistency, developed youth), the Wizards could be for real

Otherwise:

They’ll be uttering that famous line

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Dec 1, 2008 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed...good plan

Don’t listen to what media “pundits” say. They’re just trying to grab attention. It’s easier and more fun to say “blow the team up” than “develop talent, heal and wait for contracts to expire”.

by MR on Dec 1, 2008 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

And, and

Since it’s looking like the team is headed for a top 5 or 6 draft pick, that adds some particularly interesting spice into the mix. For the first time since I’ve followed the team, I won’t be arguing for the team to pick up a center in the draft. The Wiz can go for best-talent-available, or try to fill a need with a PF (Blake Griffin) or PG (Brandon Jennings/Ricky Rubio). Personally, looking at the list you’ve compiled, I’d hope for the PG since we’re real thin in the backcourt, and if the kid blows up, Arenas can at least spend some time at the 2. Between a good draft pick and one major trade, we’re giving EG 2 shots at significantly upgrading the roster. I like those chances an awful lot…

Real question mark remains defense. That offense can compete with any in the league (if Gil comes back with some semblance of his speed and killer instinct intact), but Brendan/Javale would have to be a defensive GOD to make up for all the dribble-penetration that opposing frontcourts are going to bring every night.

by sierradave on Dec 1, 2008 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I Still Want Another Big

When the Bulls won so many titles in the 90’s without a dominant center, they did so by throwing 3 legitimate thugs at teams who could slow down other teams’ dominant centers. Thugs like Luc Longly, Bill Wennington, and Will Perdue. These were tall (6-11 to 7-2), beefy guys who weren’t very capable on offense, but could rough it up with the Patrick Ewings and Shaquille O’Neals of the day and collect fouls. The Wizards don’t have a single healthy player that fits that mold, and if they plan to win a championship without a dominant center, they should acquire some. JaVale and Blatche are just too skinny and probably always will be. Brendan is capable but we need to surround him with a supporting cast when he gets into foul trouble. I don’t want to concentrate on smalls until the big (pun intended) picture is sorted out.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Dec 1, 2008 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

To Expand on This

Every NBA champion going back 15 seasons has always had either:

  • A Dominant Center
  • A Collection of Really Good Bigs
  • A Collection of Thugs

I can’t find a single example of a team winning a championship by finessing their way to one. Right now, the Wizards specialize in finesse big men.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Dec 1, 2008 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Not Really

Only six of the past 15 champions had that component. And I don’t think I need to remind you that having that one component (cough, cough) does not make up for big deficiencies (pun intended) in other areas.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Dec 1, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

We're getting too ahead of ourselves

Let’s get good first, then worry about the final piece elements. All championship teams were arguably the best team in the league top-to-bottom, defense to offense, etc. We’re not even close to that.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 1, 2008 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I Wouldn't Consider Bigs to Be Final Pieces

Usually championship teams start by acquiring sturdy bigs as foundational players. They don’t wait until the last minute to grab them. Since the Wizards don’t really have any of these players, I thought they might go for the Bulls model of rent-a-stiffs. Once the paint is secure with those guys, the 3 finesse All-Stars can reach their full potential. Granted, we don’t have Jordan/Pippen. But Arenas/Jamison/Butler isn’t that bad, as long as we’ve got guys who can keep us in the game defensively.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Dec 1, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

There are exceptions to every rule
I Wouldn’t Consider Bigs to Be Final Pieces

Usually championship teams start by acquiring sturdy bigs as foundational players. They don’t wait until the last minute to grab them.

Except some teams decided to go out and GET a big man “at the last minute” ….and THEN they won the Championship:
KG landed in Boston……
Shaq at Miami……..

(oh and perhaps Gasol and LA this year)

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Dec 1, 2008 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

You Missed the Point

Prada argued that getting a big should come after establishing a championship contender. Which of those teams that you named were championship caliber before they acquired the bigs you mentioned? None of them. You made my point for me. Let’s look at getting quality bigs now, not later.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Dec 1, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

You're misconstruing my point

The point was twofold.

One, trying to emulate a championship team is dumb at this point. We’re nowhere close to being there. Besides, teams that blatantly try to emulate championship clubs often end up worse. See the Suns and the Mavs. You win titles by being the best team and then making the rules later.

Two, we’re actually in pretty good shape at the center position compared to the rest of the roster. We have Haywood, who is very solid and definitely starter-quality for a good team so long as he becomes healthy. We have the tremendous upside of McGee and (potentially) Blatche as well. Would it be nice to have one more guy? Sure, but it’s not a top priority.

You know what’s a top priority? Finding some backcourt scoring besides Gil. Finding another point guard. Upgrading the shooting guard position. Finding a back-to-the-basket post scorer who can also defensive rebound who isn’t named Antawn Jamison. Getting another small forward.

And the other thing is that, unless you draft a superstar big early or get them in a ridiculous free agent/trade, you can’t get that dominant big. San Antonio lucked into Tim Duncan. Houston lucked into Hakeem Olajuwon. Shaq and Kareem were only going to LA. Rook covered KG, Gasol and Shaq in Miami. We’re not ever going to be in that position.

The Chicago teams you referenced also don’t prove your point. Bill Cartwright was the last starter acquired in the first three-peat. The year before Cartwright, Chicago went 50-32 and went to the second round of the playoffs. Luc Longley was only acquired in 1994. And besides, Haywood’s just as good as those guys.

Would it be nice to get more good bigs? Sure. But we’ve been doing that for the last three years, all while the rest of our roster suffers. It’s more important to upgrade the other parts of our roster than to keep searching for another 7-foot project or sign DeSagana Diop.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 1, 2008 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

My Point Remains
The Chicago teams you referenced also don’t prove your point.

But even in Chicago’s first three-peat they had guys like Stacey King (6-11, 230), Will Perdue (7-0, 240), and Scott Williams (6-10, 230) to go along with Bill Cartright (7-1, 245). In other words, they didn’t get past the Detroit Bad Boys with a bunch of tweeners playing finesse basketball. You still can’t name one championship team that either did not have a dominant center or did not have a plethora of bangers. You mentioned the need to get a back-to-the-basket post scorer that can defensive rebound, which is exactly what I’m talking about.

Yes, the Wizards have Brendan Haywood. And when he goes to the bench with his 3rd foul in the second quarter, exactly who do the Wizards bring in? JaVale McGee, who could be mistaken for a thermometer when he drinks Cherry 7-Up or Andray Blatche, who thinks he’s a shooting guard and couldn’t back down my mother in the lane and rarely boxes his man out. Let me give you a list of big men this team cannot handle until this descrepancy is sorted out:

  • Dwight Howard
  • Yao Ming
  • Tim Duncan
  • Pau Gasol/Andrew Bynum
  • Zydrunas Ilgauskas
  • Rasheed Wallace
  • Kevin Garnett
  • Al Horford/Zaza Pachulia
  • Greg Oden

  • This list is not inclusive. I could go on and on. Many of these guys aren’t even elite bigs, but they’re big enough to dominate the Wizards weak inside presence. We are not going anywhere until we can at least slow those guys down.

    There is a reason big, tall men play basketball. Other than Haywood, we’ve got nothing. And I see us continue to get out-muscled and out-rebounded in the paint on a nightly basis. And I see our defense leave perimeter shooters wide open because they are constantly forced to double-team in the low post. It has been and always will be our biggest need until it is adequately addressed. You need more than one guy to do it. Getting a point guard will not fix this problem. We need bangers. Twig boys need not apply.

    The only way this problem will fix itself is if Blatche and McGee go on the Kevin Duckworth diet this offseason, but I don’t see that happening.

    "It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

    by cuppettcj on Dec 2, 2008 8:20 AM EST up reply actions  

    I strongly disagree

    We have much bigger needs than having a second center. Every team double-teams, we just suck at rotating after it.

    Besides, JaVale’s only 19. Who’s to say he can’t grow into what you want anyway?

    You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

    by Mike Prada on Dec 2, 2008 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

    He Might

    But it will be awhile. The player I’m looking for doesn’t have to be a second center. I’m just looking for a banger who’s at least 6-10, 230 and can body up on some of the guys killing us in the paint. JaVale can block shots, but at this point he’s too easily backed down and teams are figuring that out.

    Every team double-teams, we just suck at rotating after it.

    Every team doesn’t double-team on every defensive possession. Every time the ball is passed into the low-post, the double came when EJ was the coach. Every time. ET got away from that in the Golden State game, but he had to resort to it in the Orlando and Atlanta games. We just don’t have anybody who can protect the paint one-on-one right now. When Brendan comes back, we’ll have one guy. But what about the 20-25 minutes when he’s not on the court per game?

    All of our problems are caused by this deficiency. If we had more bangers who could hold their own defensively, we could leave defenders on their man at the three point line. Rook’s analysis of us collapsing too heavily into the paint with our zone is spot on. But we have to stay close to the paint because we’re weak inside defensively. If we could stay close to the perimeter, the 3 point shot would diminish for our opponents. We would also get more stops and more fast break points, which would tremendously help our offense.

    But I guess you just don’t see it that way.

    "It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

    by cuppettcj on Dec 2, 2008 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

    I do see it that way

    I’m not denying it’s a problem. I’m just saying that we’re in decent position to address it internally. McGee’s shown a lot of potential and he’s 19, while Haywood should be back healthy. Together, there’s a lot of long-term potential at that position. If we have to, we can sign some dude for the mid-level, but the center position doesn’t need a facelift.

    Some of our other problems need to be addressed externally, and because of that, they need more prominence in a roster planning project.

    You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

    by Mike Prada on Dec 2, 2008 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

    I don't see the need

    for three big thugs. That era was perhaps the golden age of big dominate centers – today you would be hard pressed to even find one who could be mentioned in the same breath as Ewing, Shaq, Robinson, Mourning, Hakeem – throw in solid Centers like Smits and Vlade and you really had a need for low post towers.

    Today you have Yao and Dwight Howard and that’s about it – and Yao can be defended by shorter stronger guys.

    Getting buckets since 2003.

    by Icantfeelmyface on Dec 1, 2008 8:00 PM EST up reply actions  

    Defense

    Good points on Defense….. but look at that roster again….

    The Wizards only really have one VERY weak position defensively – and that is Jamison…

    Blatche has shown, if he can keep his fouls down, he can be an effective defensively. JaVale, once he learns the ropes, should also be at least adequate. Haywood is most certainly the best defensive player on the team….

    That just leaves the back court…. Young has shown some improvement this year, and although he has a long ways to go, he has the tools to be a good defender.

    I think the Wizards have players that CAN play defense – so I think the Wizards Defensive problems stem mainly from schemes. I think a “protect the rim” at all costs Defensive strategy (while ignoring 3-point shooters, hot shooters, etc…) is the reason the Wizards stink on Defense.

    Hold the players accountable for their own defensive match ups… Quit doubling down on post players. Quit cheating to the lane. Quit gambling for steals. Start matching up all over the floor – including at the 3-point line.

    Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

    by Rook6980 on Dec 1, 2008 12:15 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

    I Used to Completely Agree With You on This

    Now I’m not so sure. ET, like EJ, refuses to trust his defenders in one-on-one situations. Is there a reason?

    "It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

    by cuppettcj on Dec 1, 2008 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

    Yeah - there's a reason

    Because it’s only been 2 games since ET took over…. Ayers is still running the Defense, and it’s his schemes the Wizards are using.

    I don’t think Ed Tapscott can change the entire Defensive schemes in 2 days… He’s a smart guy, but I still think it’s gonna take time.

    The ONE thing I’d like to see Ed change defensively, is to have his players stay closer to their assigned man off-the-ball. Other teams barely leave their man in off-ball situations….. and they certainly don’t cheat 6-7 feet into the lane.

    Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

    by Rook6980 on Dec 1, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

    Look at it this way – Atlanta was shooting 60% from behind the arc, at one point in the game…… that’s like shooting 90% from the field….

    I’d rather the Wizards give up 75-80% shooting on 2-point field goals, than 60% on 3-pointers. The League has proven to me that if you leave an NBA perimeter player wide open from behind the line, they WILL HIT THAT SHOT

    Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

    by Rook6980 on Dec 1, 2008 1:14 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

    Definitely

    Something has to be done about that. I’m sick of seeing it.

    "It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

    by cuppettcj on Dec 1, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

    We need to bring in more defensive-minded players

    defense, like offense, is more of a mindset than anything else. You have to work at it, yes, but you must have that desire to improve yourself.

    We have three potent scorers on this team: Butler, Jamison and Arenas. Luckly, they play three different positions. From what we can see so far, McGee and Young can be above-average scorers (averaging between 10-and-15ppg, with the occassional 20-25pt outburst) shortly.

    That gives this team five scorers from five positions. We don’t need any more scorers in a typical 8-or-9 man rotation. The remaining spots can be reserved for defensive-minded players who can rebound, pass and hit an open jumpshot (I know that’s asking alot, but whatever). Even if we get one more scorer for a Worse Case Scenario, we can still have three solid defenders, preferably at guard, center and one of the swing positions.

    by Pryme on Dec 1, 2008 1:13 PM EST reply actions  

    speaking of top 5 picks in weak drafts

    anyone see what devin harris (former wizards draft pick) is doing lately?

    by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 1, 2008 7:35 PM EST reply actions  

    yeah

    I was just thinking that the other day. We did get AJ out of it though and he has certainly given us some good years, so we can’t complain too much. Jersey definitely got their money’s worth for Kidd.

    Getting buckets since 2003.

    by Icantfeelmyface on Dec 1, 2008 7:53 PM EST up reply actions  

    yeah

    i’d do it again, as jamison has been huge for us, but it’s interesting that we’ll likely be in a similar situation this year.

    note that it took harris 3 years to get to this point. looks to me like jersey fleeced dallas.

    by DarrellWalkerFan on Dec 2, 2008 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

    It was a good deal and I would do it again to

    But man I knew Devin Harris would be good, just not this good. The Mavs are idiots. What I wouldn’t give to get someone like him who could run the point and can be efficient scorer.

    "Would you like to shoot me now or wait till you get home." --- Daffy Duck

    by George Templeton on Dec 2, 2008 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

    The Mavs didn't do so bad either

    They got Jason Kidd…. who just so happens to be 4th in the League in Assists…. (Devin Harris is currently 12th)..

    Plus Kidd is averaging over 7 rebounds per game – easily leading all guards in that category.
    He’s still a triple-double waiting to happen.

    So it’s not like the Mavs got snookered…. and got nothing in return. (ie: Memphis)

    Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

    by Rook6980 on Dec 2, 2008 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

    Memphis

    Got Marc Gasol, a very good young center for the future, he probably won’t reach the status of his Brother, but he’s cheap for now and very decent.

    The Jason Kidd trade hurts not because Kidd sucks but because what they gave up, Harris is a decade younger and a willing driver, something the Mavs desperately need right now.

    J-Kidd isn’t even being guarded at the peremeter because of his notoriously bad jumper.

    by Fundefined on Dec 2, 2008 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

    Kidd -
    J-Kidd isn’t even being guarded at the peremeter because of his notoriously bad jumper.

    Jason Kidd is hitting 42% of his 3-point shots – perhaps teams should start guarding him.

    By the way – I’m not disputing that NJ got the better of the deal, so far… but most posters here are making it seem like the Mavericks got taken ( “The Mavs are idiots” ; and “jersey fleeced dallas”; etc…) – I’m just saying that the trade was certainly not as one-sided as most people here are implying. Jason Kidd is quietly having a very nice year.

    Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

    by Rook6980 on Dec 3, 2008 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

    But

    The only problem is that Harris is better and younger. That’s a huge issue.

    You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

    by Mike Prada on Dec 2, 2008 7:20 PM EST up reply actions  

    Age -
    better and younger

    Wow . Better.
    Harris with 24.8 points, 6 assists, 4 rebounds, 1.2 steals, 61.5% TSP
    Big numbers, on what I consider to be a bad team. Interestingly, they also look quite similar to another “shoot first” PG, who has been denigrated in the National media (and on Local Wizards blogs) because he’s not a “True PG”… There’s no doubt that Harris’ numbers look slightly better than Kidd’s (9.6 points, 8.5 assists, 7.2 rebounds, 2.5 steals, 56.3% TSP) – but is it because he’s a “shoot first” PG?

    As for the age thing, it depends on what you’re trying to do.

    If you’re building for the future, and need a young, explosive scoring PG – perhaps trade for Harris. Then you purge salary, win the Lottery, sign 2 high draft picks, move to a new Arena and wait for 2010.

    On the other hand, if you have an aging core and need to shake things up ; because your window of opportunity to win a Championship is closing – And you don’t really have a demonstrated Leader on the team….. Perhaps you give up a valuable asset and take a gamble on a Veteran PG that has shown the ability to get a less than dominant team to the Finals.

    Dallas only has 2-3 more years before they’ll have to re-tool that team. I thought the Kidd/Harris trade was a gutsy move. They didn’t seem to be going anywhere with that roster anyway.

    By the way, anyone that says they knew that Harris would explode this year, and that the Nets would be 6th in the Eastern Conference would be lying – so let’s not start jumping on the Devin Harris bandwagon, just because the Nets are winning. If NJ was 2-12 (like everyone predicted at the beginning of the year) and Dallas was leading their division – there would be posters on here saying as how NJ got punked out of the best PG in the League. Let’s keep it medium.

    Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

    by Rook6980 on Dec 3, 2008 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

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