Wish list for Navarro?

by sierradave on Jul 17, 2007 1:35 PM EDT Comment 40 comments

[Editor's Note: From the diaries. This is your place for discussing what happens now with JCN. I'd love to hear trade proposals, but I ask that you just try to keep them reasonable (e.g. there's a decent possibility of them happening in real life, not just in your head). Also, be sure to read this refresher of what you, the reader, can do here. -Pradamaster]

With Denver's signing of Chucky Atkins, I've resigned myself to the Camby dream-trade not happening. So much for winning the title next year.

Navarro is going to end up somewhere this offseason, and he's probably going with the Poet in tow. According to hoopshype, Miami and Memphis are pushing hard, with Cleveland, Boston, and Philly showing interest as well. Given these teams' rosters, and assuming the contracts will include one of our centers, who do you think Ernie should be asking for from each of these teams?

Sounds like if it's Memphis, we're hoping for Hakim Warrick. I don't love that trade, but I wouldn't hate it either.

Miami seems ready to make an offer, though it seems like they make an offer for every player in the league. I'd like to see Doleac included in a trade - he's a non-terrible center and an expiring contract. they'd need to throw in Dorrell Wright or Wayne Simien to make the numbers work. I have no opinion on which one would be a better fit for our team.

Not sure what Cleveland would offer. Maybe Newble's expiring contract, maybe Donyell Marshall. They can't offer us the big man we need unless it's a sign-and-trade for Varejao, and I'm not convinced he's actually an upgrade over BTH and Etan.

Boston has a mess of young guys, and I know nothing about any of them.

Same basically goes for Philly. We could get an okay seven-footer in Steven Hunter, and they have a ton of young guys. NOT Shavlik Randolph, that's all I have to say.

Anybody have any great trade proposals?

This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.

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Comments

Blockbuster Trade

It seems like JCN plus Etan/Brendan isn't getting us much in return, so why not throw Antawn in and up the ante?

Two scenarios to consider:

JCN, Brendan, Jamison, and future draft picks to Minnesota for KG. (RealGM Trade ID: 4113195)

JCN, Brendan, Jamison, and future draft picks to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal. (RealGM Trade ID: 4113204)

Both teams are dangling their stars in front of other teams in an attempt to rebuild. Jamison has a big, expiring contract that should be attractive to both teams. Plus, both teams would be getting the potential of JCN and the Wizards future draft picks to build around. Not a bad package for a rebuilding team.

I don't think I need to explain how the Wizards could use either KG or O'Neal.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jul 17, 2007 1:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Link to HoopsHype?

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 17, 2007 1:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't like what any of these teams has to offer.

Maybe if we suggest a three-way deal (of course these almost never happen) where we could get something from a different team.

Lets hope EG can make some magic happen - maybe he can swindle Emeka Okefor away from Jordan or something. (Yeah, I know its not gonna happen, but I can dream, can't I?)

by mamemimo on Jul 17, 2007 2:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

exactly

Its the same thing Phoenix did when trying to get KG once Boston bowed out. Minnesota went looking for a packge that would be worthwhile since they already had the KG to PHX side worked out.

Thats what Miami should be doing now. Ernie gives them some criteria and they make it happen.

by Jheiser3 on Jul 17, 2007 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed, but one problem

It's not just that Miami doesn't have anyone WE want. They don't have anyone PERIOD. Kapono was their one attractive player, but he's signed elsewhere now. They invested the franchise in Shaq and D. Wade. They've signed old vets for the past few years. What pieces is anyone gonna trade for from them?

by sierradave on Jul 17, 2007 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I need to be re-taught

the site is http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm. I can never remember how to embed links...

by sierradave on Jul 17, 2007 2:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I figured it was that site

Here's how you embed links. Anytime you see [ or ], insert < or >.

[a href= "http://www.thelinkyouwant.com" ]The text you want[/a].

It should show up like this.

The text you want.

HoopsHype links to a number of articles from newspapers all over, so if you have the url of the specific article that you read, put it here too. If you can't get it, no sweat. It's really confusing with that site.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 17, 2007 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Navarro/Thomas

By now the Wizards have made it clear that to get the draft rights to Juan Carlos Navarro, a suitor also would have to take on the contract of either Etan Thomas or Brendan Haywood. The Heat certainly doesn't need another center. But if giving up Udonis Haslem and a lottery-protected first-rounder is what it takes for Navarro and Thomas, then the option deserves consideration. -- South Florida Sun-Sentinel
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

by oneal286 on Jul 17, 2007 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

On Haslem

He's a decent youngish player, but I don't see how he fits in here. We already have enough undersized power forwards on this roster, and I don't see how Haslem fits in as a high-post player in this offense.

The problem is he's probably the best Miami can offer at this point.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 17, 2007 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Navarro/Thomas

I agree with many others that I don't want to trade with a division rival, especially our chief rival the Miami Heat who crush us year after year. What if Navarro turns out to be a sleeper like Ginobili and he and Wade dominate the East? I could not stomach that as a Wizards fan, knowing that we had helped our rival Heat become better.
I think that we should deal predominantly with the Grizzles

by oneal286 on Jul 17, 2007 2:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The thing with Warrick

I'd love to see him in a Wizards uniform, the thing is he'd only be a one-year rental. He's up for free-agency at the end of next year and there's no way the Wizards would be able to re-sign him with Gilbert opting out, unless they threw in Damon Stoudamire's expiring contract. Even then, Gilbert's contract could still eat up all of that room and I'm not even sure what role Warrick would even have on the team with Blatche already there. Of course, if the Wizards let him go that changes things completely.

If Abe Pollin had wanted the Washington Bullets to sound less dangerous, he should've just called them "The Bullets".

by JakeTheSnake on Jul 17, 2007 2:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Trade him West

I do not like the idea of trading JCN to the Eastern Conference and then facing him in the playoffs. I can just picture him bombing clutch 3s to finish off the Wizards' playoff hopes. I still have nightmares from Damon Freaking Jones and he just hit one big 3.

Could the Wiz still move Etan or BTH without including JCN? Is there anyway JCN could still get 25-30 minutes a game with this current roster? Would AD be the odd man out? I think trading JCN is a total disaster in the making. It could rival the Chris Webber trade debacle.

What? They don't have TV in the D-League? Don't watch me, watch TV.

by Mac G on Jul 17, 2007 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

AD Wouldn't Be the Odd Man Out

... Andray Blatche would be. Assuming Ernie signs Dominic McGuire (I think everyone agrees that he should and will), then the Wizards would have 11 men under contract with two players unaccounted for: Blatche and JCN. I realize you said you wanted to dump Brendan/Etan without using JCN, but I think that's unrealistic.

Brendan and Etan are both overpaid for their production (Etan especially so), and every other team realizes that. The only way Ernie is going to get rid of either of them is to package one of them with someone other teams actually want. Before JCN terminated his contract, Ernie was trying to use AD to get that done. But AD is also highly paid for his services, and he isn't getting any younger. So it's either JCN or someone we wouldn't want to consider (one of the Big 3) in order to dump Brendan/Etan.

So keeping JCN at this point, in my opinion, would mean letting Blatche walk. And while I like what I hear about JCN, I'd rather take my chances with Blatche.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jul 17, 2007 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rivaling the Chris Webber debacle?

That's pretty harsh for a guy who has yet to play in the league.

Chris Webber for Richmond was the perfect storm of a bad trade. There's no way a Navarro trade can possibly be in the same league.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 17, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mac

Mac, we don't have the money to sign him. Thats the main issue. We're well over the cap leaving the veteran's exception of 1.8 million or whats left of the MLE (1.6). He knows Memphis and other teams are willing to pay him 3 or more. Plus, he needs the money so he can pay the buyout. So its not as easy as making room for him.

by Jheiser3 on Jul 17, 2007 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or Perhaps Gamble on the Future?

Again, I don't like any of the names being thrown out there for JCN. Besides packaging Antawn for a blockbuster trade, the Wizards could simply trade JCN to a poor team like Memphis in exchange for their first round draft pick next year.

It doesn't help the Wizards immediately, and it is a gamble since the team receiving JCN might make the playoffs and reduce the value of their draft pick. (Example: Memphis is only one year removed from making the playoffs. If JCN turns out to be really good, they might make it again next year.)

Yet if the team receiving JCN continues to stink, the Wizards could be looking at a lottery pick next year. Just another option to consider.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jul 17, 2007 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

JCN/Thomas for Swift

I'm actually hoping for a JCN/Thomas for Stromile Swift trade. A few reasons here:

We save about .5 mil in salary next year and 1 fewer year - more $ to help re-sign Andray Blatche.
If you've seen this guy, you know he has crazy athleticism (former #2 draft pick) and he will probably excel in a open court game that Washington runs. If you read Hollingers player notes, he even mentions how much better he would be in an uptempo game and that he doesn't fit what Memphis does.
We dont deal with a divisional rival.

The only reason I hestitate because I fear that his game and position are very similiar to that of Antawn and that he is basically a scoring PF with little defense. That being said, AJ is a free agent next year, so it might make sense.

For what its worth, I doubt Memphis parts with Warrick or Lowry. Remember, they are in rebuilding mode and would be trading young talented players.

by hour36 on Jul 17, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Swift Was #2 Out of Terrible

you know he has crazy athleticism (former #2 draft pick)

Something to be said of the draft class of 2000.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jul 17, 2007 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My only problem with Swift

Is that his rebounding numbers have never been good.

http://basketball-reference.com/players/s/swiftst01.html

But like you said, he's never been in a system that fits his talent. I'm not sure the Wizards are that system, but they're definitely closer than Houston or the Fratello-Grizzlies.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 17, 2007 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not eager to send JCN to Miami

I'm sort of tickled that it's possible the Wiz could get first-round value for a 2002 second-round pick that they've spent nary a dime on. Neat trick.

That said, the RealGM Wizards Forum thread on this topic features a bunch of trade proposals with Miami in which we'd be able to trade JCN and unload Etan for parts that may include Dorrell Wright, Michael Doleac, and/or Jason Williams. This gives me heartburn. I've got no problem with Wright, except that we already have young, athletic, need-seasoning types in McGuire and Blatche. Another seems silly. I like Doleac's shooting ability, but we already have a better offensive version in Songaila, and what we really need is someone who can rebound, play post defense and block shots. Don't get me started on Jason Williams, who, given how he limped through last season) will be lucky to be on an NBA roster by the end of the year (and he's gonna be 32 -- we know what happens to mid-30s guards).

None of these reservations even addresses the fact that we would end up seeing JCN four times a year playing for the division rival who's treated us like b*tches for the last several years. If he becomes a good player, how much would that suck?

In my fantasy world, we unload Etan and AD for a decent rebounding big man and some cap room to sign JCN ourselves. I'd settle for getting rid of Etan and losing JCN in exchange for a player with promise.

by Vanilla Gorilla on Jul 17, 2007 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Your problem with Swift

Good call. He is about 2 rebounds worse than Thomas per 40 minutes. Not terrible, but not very good.

As I said, he somewhat duplicates a position and need. But the man can score, has decent range, and probably would fit in pretty well with our offense.

by hour36 on Jul 17, 2007 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh... one more comment

I get the feeling that whatever happens with JCN will probably happen after Blatche signs an offer sheet (presumably from Dallas).

My guess is that teams interested in JCN are waiting to see what happens with AB. If AB signs an offer that would force Grunfeld past the luxary tax, Grunfeld would be forced to make a move and dump a contract for less than "the moon."

What I see playing out is AB signing a front loaded offer sheet from Dallas that would force us over the luxary tax. At this point, Grunfeld packages JCN with a player he's less happy about parting with (AD or Haywood vs. Thomas) for some cap relief (to whom and for what.... no idea) to match the offer sheet.

by hour36 on Jul 17, 2007 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This I agree with

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 17, 2007 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good Discussion

I watched JCN tear up the World Championships last year. He was one of the top players in the tournament and is one of the top shooters in the whole world. Now he is going to play for the Wizards and we are looking to trade him? It just baffles my mind when you look at it from the surface.

Everyone makes great points about the roster spots and being able to trade Etan/BTH or having enough money to sign Blatche. Or going over the Luxury Tax. I understand the logic in the trade scenarios.

I just do not see how the organization lets JCN go without letting him light up the VC. Maybe I over exaggerated with calling it the Webber trade but if JCN ends up scoring 15-20 points game or becoming Ginobli, how great does cap relief seem?

I blame Etan and BTH for not being able to get along. I blame BTH for being a baby and Eddie Jordan for his awful sub patterns.

I hope that I am wrong and La Bomba tanks for the team we trade him to. Great Posts and Welcome to the Board new guys.

What? They don't have TV in the D-League? Don't watch me, watch TV.

by Mac G on Jul 18, 2007 10:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

mac

its also that we don't have anything to offer him. His market value is over 3 million. DC has 1.8 or 1.6 to offer. He needs more than that to payoff his buyout.

I agree that I'd rather play with him than against him. he's gonna be a bargain at 3 mil per too. I was trying to think of some way for DC to swindle him in under the threshold and CBA, like trading his rights to a team, have him sign with them and then trading for him. thats how frustrated I was.

by Jheiser3 on Jul 18, 2007 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wizards Should Insist on Value for JCN!

I agree with that. Ernie is making a gamble by bringing back DeShawn instead of taking a chance on JCN at the 2. I'll only agree with the decision if Ernie gets someone valuable in exchange for JCN in a trade. The names I'm hearing about that other teams are offering for JCN (i.e. Stromile Swift, James Posey) simply do not cut the mustard! Ernie should have insisted that other teams up the ante for JCN before he signed DeShawn. Teams now think Ernie has to get rid of him, so they're all low-balling.

I did have one idea on how Ernie might recover from this situation, although it will be a little bit painful. He could trade AD and Brendan to some other team in exchange for one overpaid center that the other team wants to get rid of (it doesn't matter who). That overpaid center would become the backup behind Etan. Assuming that player makes less than AD and Brendan combined, Ernie could use the cash savings from the deal to sign JCN to play backup point guard behind Gilbert. Ernie would then still have one roster spot open to use to sign Blatche.

This could work, but it would be painful for a couple of reasons. First, it means losing a proven and dependable backup in AD while taking a chance that JCN will be good enough right away to run the offense when Gilbert's on the bench. The second reason it would be painful is because the Wizards would be acquiring some other team's mistake, but it might be their best option at this point.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Jul 18, 2007 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eh

I don't think Navarro's important enough to sacrifice both AD and Haywood. I'm really not excited about the prospect of having Etan Thomas as our only option in the middle. If you're going to trade Haywood or Etan, you HAVE to get another big back that can play a lot of minutes. I'm assuming another team's headache doesn't qualify as that type of center. Otherwise, what's the point of downgrading the center position when it's the weakest on the team.

I don't think signing DeShawn really changes anything with JCN, honestly. Ernie was trying to trade him before he signed DeShawn, and he'll try to trade him even after signing DeShawn. It always seemed to me like Navarro simply fell into Ernie's lap, and it never really seemed like Ernie had him in his plans, with or without DeShawn. The alternative to DeShawn would have been someone like Devin Brown, not JCN.

No team is going to offer too much for a guy who hasn't played one minute in this league, no matter his international track record. The Posey rumor came before DeShawn was signed, for example. I think it's become obvious that getting someone like Marcus Camby is, and always was, a pipedream. I'm sure Ernie's tried, but nobody's biting. It takes two to tangle, remember.

I'd have no problem with Swift, to be honest. Even in bad systems, he still had an average PER the last couple years. Before that, his per-minute numbers were excellent, and he really should have been playing more. (See here). While he's not a great rebounder, he's not terrible either. He's also still relatively young, and his contract expires next year if he doesn't work out. At the very least, he'd inject some needed athleticism up front. As of right now, only Blatche really does that, and he's very unproven.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 18, 2007 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

JCN Trade

I am new to this site, but I felt I had to comment on this subject. I think JCN should stay on this team but it seems imminent that he be sent away in a trade. How about this for a trade: The rights to JCN to Milwaukee for the rights to Yi Jianlian of China. Only if the chineese government will let him play for DC of course. He's a 7 footer -realgm.com trade id 4119057. Between yi and pecherov one of them should be able to block a shot.

by wizkid29 on Jul 19, 2007 10:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Interesting idea

Milwaukee seemed pretty high on Etan a couple years ago (it was their offer sheet we matched to give Etan his current bad contract). Maybe they'd take him and JCN for Yi's rights and one of their bums (for salary balance purposes). Yi's certainly got enough potential to merit considering the deal, although it seems JCN is far more of a finished product.

I'm not sure we can expect much shotblocking from Yi and Opec, though. Oleksiy had nary a block throughout the summer league, and although Yi notched a passable 1.4 per game, his reputation is as a scorer and shooter, not as a defender or shot-blocker.

by Vanilla Gorilla on Jul 19, 2007 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting idea

But I doubt Milwaukee goes for it, considering the age old "big for small" adage. I also don't see how Navarro fits in Milwaukee when they already have Mo Williams and Michael Redd.

I also kind of feel like we should stay away from Yi. Too much baggage.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 19, 2007 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But ...

We play in CHINATOWN for chrissakes! It's a perfect fit. Bringing reality in can be such a buzzkill.

by Vanilla Gorilla on Jul 19, 2007 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My bad

This is true.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 19, 2007 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yi

I'm very meh on Yi, and where would his minutes come from? That's right: O-Pec and Blatche. While I can see where you guys are coming from, I'm not down with it.

by mamemimo on Jul 19, 2007 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yi Troubles

The problem that would favor the Wizards is the fact that China won't let Yi play for the Bucks. It could get real ugly in milwaukee and a total waste of a pick for the Bucks. With this strategy ideally we pick up a potiental replacement for Jamison if we end up having to choose between Gilbo and him.

by wizkid29 on Jul 19, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right, it's a messy situation

But it'll probably also be a messy situation here, and I'd personally rather have Blatche waiting to replace Jamison than Yi. Blatche has more NBA experience, is more defensive-minded, and is younger than Yi.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jul 19, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But... but ...

Yi's only 19. He swears he is. Really. Plus, I hear his fastball is better than Danny Almonte's.

by Vanilla Gorilla on Jul 19, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not Yi!

Getting Yi on the Wizards would be like putting Zach Randolph on the Knicks with Eddy Curry... oh wait. The point is that it would duplicate a position and type of player that the Wizards just drafted last year. Pesh is esentially a Ukranian version of Yi-- A face the basket PF.

When push comes to shove, I see Miami making a play for Navarro for next years first rounder and possibly a second rounder the following year. Miami will probably be a middle of a road team next year, unless Shaq decides he wants to play in the regular season, and esentially we would be getting a pick somewhere in the 15-20 range.

Can anyone think of any other team that needs a shooter? I would say the Jazz except they just draft Morris Almond.

by hour36 on Jul 19, 2007 11:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Another Dream Trade

I know Timberwolves would never do it but...

KG for Juan Carlos Navarro, Brendan Haywood, and Antawn Jamison. Throw in next years first if they want it to seal the deal.

Our Lineup:

PG: Gilbo
SG: Stevenson/ Young
SF: Butler
PF: Pet/ AT
C: KG

1 year to win the championship!
Draft ID: 4123661.

by wizkid29 on Jul 20, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Haha

This blog is funny! people here really believe that the wizards will be one of the top teams in the east! nyahahaha! this blog is better than the simpsons!

by kupal on Jul 20, 2007 6:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs